SpaceYeti's continuing seriousness (porn/art)

[SpaceYeti]

I look both at art and pornography, and I do not comprehend the reason people separate the two into distinct categories, instead of considering porn a form of art. The only difference is that pornography's intent is to arouse, whereas art's is not necessarily such (not sexually). Ultimately, I see no difference between an "artistic nude" and a "picture of a hot, naked chick". They're the same thing. I don't see why sexual arousal is somehow an invalid form of emotional arousal, such that it makes a thing not art. I have my suspicions that it's simply a result of people thinking of sex as "dirty" and "naughty". It's neither. Sex is beautiful. Get over yourself.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Clearly you're going to demonstrate your commitment by using an authentic photograph of a human phallus as your avatar, amirite? Embrace martyrdom. After all, "Art is what you can get away with"- Andy Warhol

 

[SpaceYeti]

I'd totally do that. I'd even use my own. However, I'm pretty sure it's against the rules.

 

[BigApplePi]

I look both at art and pornography, and I do not comprehend the reason people separate the two into distinct categories, instead of considering porn a form of art. The only difference is that pornography's intent is to arouse, whereas art's is not necessarily such (not sexually). Ultimately, I see no difference between an "artistic nude" and a "picture of a hot, naked chick". They're the same thing. I don't see why sexual arousal is somehow an invalid form of emotional arousal, such that it makes a thing not art. I have my suspicions that it's simply a result of people thinking of sex as "dirty" and "naughty". It's neither. Sex is beautiful. Get over yourself.

Umm. Aren't they different but with overlap? There could be good porn, crude porn, bad porn, and porn as art. I'm not sure but the Marquis de Sade tried to write literature. What about "Lady Chatterley's Lover"? (I haven't read it.) Hot nekkid chicks? Subjective I say. To make it art it would have to have a broader appeal, perhaps with a message. A cartoon might be trivial art if called art.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sac...rofane-love-titian-greeting-card.html;600;235

 

[SpaceYeti]

Umm. Aren't they different but with overlap? There could be good porn, crude porn, bad porn, and porn as art. I'm not sure but the Marquis de Sade tried to write literature. What about "Lady Chatterley's Lover"? (I haven't read it.) Hot nekkid chicks? Subjective I say. To make it art it would have to have a broader appeal, perhaps with a message. A cartoon might be trivial art if called art.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sacred+and+profane+love&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=EwQhUfG9KazU0gHEzoHAAg&biw=1523&bih=796&sei=GQQhUaD-Cqm50QGa-YD4Bg#imgrc=abYO9ZkiJLDb0M%3A%3BEncC82gKkGnp5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffineartamerica.com%252Fimages-medium%252Fsacred-and-profane-love-titian.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffineartamerica.com%252Fproducts%252Fsacred-and-profane-love-titian-greeting-card.html%3B600%3B235

Pornography's definition;
obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

Art's definition;
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

As we can see, pornography already gets the short end of the stick, as it's defined to be obscene right off the bat, and then further defined to probably not count as art. In the mean time, art can sit high and mighty in it's chair of aesthetics (a big word that means "pretty").

So what is the picture of a hot naked chick, art or pornography? If the border is blurry, maybe it's artificial and arbitrary. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and both pornography and art rely on beauty to exist. Are they different only because they're defined to be, or is it an actual innate quality?

 

[BigApplePi]

Your OP says:

I look both at art and pornography, and I do not comprehend the reason people separate the two into distinct categories, instead of considering porn a form of art.

It doesn't ask to define art.

Pornography's definition;
obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

Art's definition;
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

I'm not favoring those definitions. The 1st one says nothing and deliberately excludes what it doesn't define. The 2nd one is kinda redundant by the using words, "aesthetic", "beautiful, appealing." This is art, but would you call it any of those?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...yRohUeyFLtPV0gG934DIBg&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAA&dur=84

 

[Chad]

Porn could be artistic like and media however, most forms of Pornography can be related best a crappy art (Bad Acting, Bad technique, Bad Lighting), Porn for the most part doesn't stand up to the skill that it takes to make something artistic.

This is because art takes much more work and Porn is truly a fiance driven business for the most part. Its much cheaper to make crap that sails that to worry about the artistic value of your product. Especially when a more artistic product would coast more to produce and like not sell any better.

I am not a huge fan of the porn industry in general however, I see no reason why the sexuality of woman can't be artistic (others may say the same about men however this would be an art form I would care for) as long as it is tastefully done.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Porn could be artistic like and media however, most forms of Pornography can be related best a crappy art (Bad Acting, Bad technique, Bad Lighting), Porn for the most part doesn't stand up to the skill that it takes to make something artistic.

This is because art takes much more work and Porn is truly a fiance driven business for the most part. Its much cheaper to make crap that sails that to worry about the artistic value of your product. Especially when a more artistic product would coast more to produce and like not sell any better.

I am not a huge fan of the porn industry in general however, I see no reason why the sexuality of woman can't be artistic (others may say the same about men however this would be an art form I would care for) as long as it is tastefully done.

Dude, porn can cost upwards of tens of thousands of dollars to make, whereas paint and a canvas cost something like $50.

Define "tastefully done". Does "tastefully done" = not patently sexual? Why is sex less than tasteful? Is something wrong with it?

 

[Duxwing]

Dude, porn can cost upwards of tens of thousands of dollars to make, whereas paint and a canvas cost something like $50.

Define "tastefully done". Does "tastefully done" = not patently sexual? Why is sex less than tasteful? Is something wrong with it?

I think that "tasteful" refers to not being some id-driven exploitation, but rather something well crafted.

-Duxwing

 

[Chad]

Dude, porn can cost upwards of tens of thousands of dollars to make, whereas paint and a canvas cost something like $50.

Define "tastefully done". Does "tastefully done" = not patently sexual? Why is sex less than tasteful? Is something wrong with it?

Personally I don't find Sex less tasteful, it's honestly my favorite recreational activity. When I say that it cost more for porn to be artful what I am saying is relative to what it cost for the medium right now. In general Art is an expression of talent while porn certainly may have talent this is not required for a production to be considered porn. Therefore some porn with high production value may be artistic but porn in general would not.

Seriously if I filmed myself having sex with my wife this would be consider porn but believe me when I tell you that there would be nothing artistic about it.

Since porn doesn't need artistic polish to sale it generally not something worth wasting money on (speaking form the mind set of porn executives). Therefore while porn has the ability to be artistic it really reaches that status.

This combined with the fact that Porn is also a much more descriptive term related only to a select few things. Where art is a more general concept shaped by societal views as well as personal ones. Therefore there is room for you to find artistic value in Pornography even if it is not accepted as such by societal norms.

There are far few areas where my personal view and Societal norms cross but I personally have to agree with society on this one.

 

[walfin]

Darn, I thought you'd produced a nude painting or something.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Porn has bad storylines, very little character development, and the resolution is usually a bit anticlimactic when you consider all of the rising action (heh). All in all I rate Porn as a collective unit (lol) as being worse than Live Free or Die Hard, but still better than Happy Feet or any movie ever made by the SyFy channel.

 

[Nezaros]

I have my suspicions that it's simply a result of people thinking of sex as "dirty" and "naughty".

This is pretty much it, I think. You've got Christian values to thank for that one.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Porn has bad storylines, very little character development, and the resolution is usually a bit anticlimactic when you consider all of the rising action (heh). All in all I rate Porn as a collective unit (lol) as being worse than Live Free or Die Hard, but still better than Happy Feet or any movie ever made by the SyFy channel.

Hey, Chupacabra Terror and Sharktopus were awesome!

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Hey, Chupacabra Terror and Sharktopus were awesome!

I'll admit that I greatly enjoyed watching Sharktopus, but that was mostly because its glaring lack of quality. SyFy movies are enjoyable things to watch, but could never be considered quality films, thus they rank lower than porn. But don't be too dismayed, they're still beating out Happy Feet.

Seriously, Happy Feet is a terrible movie and I do not understand how anyone even thought that making a second one could be a good idea.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I'll admit that I greatly enjoyed watching Sharktopus, but that was mostly because its glaring lack of quality. SyFy movies are enjoyable things to watch, but could never be considered quality films, thus they rank lower than porn. But don't be too dismayed, they're still beating out Happy Feet.

Seriously, Happy Feet is a terrible movie and I do not understand how anyone even thought that making a second one could be a good idea.

Yes, but it was also brilliant in that it subtly admitted it's own suck. It was all "Well... the plot sucks, the acting sucks, the premise is either awesomely stupid or stupidly awesome, not sure which, but, at any rate, check out these chicks in bikinis!"

I never watched Happy Feet, but there's this awesome song from the back when my grandmother listened to music era of the same name, and it's awesome.

 

[Cognisant]

Porn can be art but there's a lot that isn't, likewise art can be pornographic but there's a lot that isn't, unless you're really freaky, I mean if you can get off on Monet's haystacks then clearly it's not that art is porn, rather you're just an asthetiphilliac or something.

Pictophilia?

Edit:

Pyrophilia: sexual arousal through watching, setting, hearing/talking/fantasizing about fire

I want that.

 

[Cavallier]

To me porn and art are one in the same. Porn is just another genre, so to speak, of art.

There is a lot of art out there that is/was considered pornographic at it's conception and production. This was considered pornographic at when it was produced...or at least extremely risque:

Spoiler

I mean...one woman alone with two men?!?!?! *GASP!* And she's on a swing so you know they can see her...knickers...

These days it's just a sort of boring pastural scene with some idiots fauning over some chick on a swing. Meh.

I do appreciate some thought put into porn though. It can be really boring and moronic like Cheeseumpuffs pointed out. Why does my porn have to be boring? It doesn't. There is a lot of great "porn" out there that isn't boring. There is art out there that is thought provoking, intersting, and just also happens to have some quality sex in it.

 

[BigApplePi]

That painting is by Fragonard. I happen to live near a museum with whole rooms filled with Fragonard's. I don't recall that painting being among them. Shall I take a look to see so we can all snicker if there are any similar? It's done in the rococo style which approximately means fancy.

 

[Cavallier]

A bunch of paintings done by a man known for his thinly veiled eroticism and hedonism? Sure, I bet there are a fair amount of dusty snickers to be had

Rococo is good for that but you have to look for depictions of Greek Goddesses. It was not entirely socially acceptable to depict real life naked women...

 

[BigApplePi]

It was not entirely socially acceptable to depict real life naked women...

That is very true. I can think of a few reasons why that is not socially acceptable. One of them has to do not with objective porn, but with subjective porn.

Did we define porn? I don't know what it is because I avoided seeing it. But if I saw it would I know it?

Try: porn = media which arouses sexual desires when we don't want them aroused. That leaves out media when we want it aroused. What is that? Do we need a different word?

 

[SpaceYeti]

Porn can be art but there's a lot that isn't, likewise art can be pornographic but there's a lot that isn't, unless you're really freaky, I mean if you can get off on Monet's haystacks then clearly it's not that art is porn, rather you're just an asthetiphilliac or something.

But why? I mean, there's a lot of art that resembles crap thrown together, Pollock just flung paint at a canvas, and I'm not sure of the name of the painting of a big red square. I don't consider any of this art, and I don't give two shits about it except I hate jerk-holes who look at it and take this deep meaning out of garbage. They're sophistic assholes.

Porn is pretty, it makes me feel things, it inspires me. It inspires me to get my rocks off, but it makes me feel something, and something I'd classify as an emotion. What makes a big red square art, but not a chick taking a big rod up her ass?

 

[Cognisant]

But why? I mean, there's a lot of art that resembles crap thrown together, Pollock just flung paint at a canvas, and I'm not sure of the name of the painting of a big red square. I don't consider any of this art, and I don't give two shits about it except I hate jerk-holes who look at it and take this deep meaning out of garbage. They're sophistic assholes.

And I totally agree.

Porn is pretty, it makes me feel things, it inspires me. It inspires me to get my rocks off, but it makes me feel something, and something I'd classify as an emotion. What makes a big red square art, but not a chick taking a big rod up her ass?

I think it can, but only once.

Whereas if we're talking about porn as an art form in of itself then I totally agree that it's art, terrible art of course, but having that baseline gives people something to try and exceed, and so it might actually be a good idea to define porn as its own type of art so the porn industry can mature into something more than what it currently is.

I mean I find porn with a context more interesting than porn without, it engages me on more levels, and I'd love to watch a shameless documentary on human reproduction with specific detail given to the mechanisms of pleasure and the psychology of fetishes.

 

[Nezaros]

All media is technically art, anybody claiming that one of Homer's epics is objectively superior to a video game or pornographic film is being a pompous ass. Sure, some things have far, far more effort put into them than others, but effort isn't an objective, observable quality. If I showed somebody Kazimir Malevich's Black Square and a piece of paper covered in black crayon by a three-year-old, and asked which appeared more artistic, they're exactly the same. Art, like so many other things, is entirely subjective, and though it may offend some peoples' delicate sensibilities, pornography is no different from any other art form.

 

[C.Hecker88]

Darn, I thought you'd produced a nude painting or something.

Same here. I can do this if it's okay with the mods and you people don't mind ugly old ladies.

 

[Duxwing]

Same here. I can do this if it's okay with the mods and you people don't mind ugly old ladies.

My mind's eye, it burns!

-Duxwing

 

[snafupants]

Ultimately, I see no difference between an "artistic nude" and a "picture of a hot, naked chick". They're the same thing.

Do you achieve an erection from an artistic nude, say, of an old lady or prepubescent boy?

 

[SpaceYeti]

Do you achieve an erection from an artistic nude, say, of an old lady or prepubescent boy?

Obviously not. I'm not attracted to those things, and wouldn't waste my time looking at them.

 

[snafupants]

Obviously not. I'm not attracted to those things, and wouldn't waste my time looking at them.

Then that's one way in which they are not the same thing.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Then that's one way in which they are not the same thing.

Ignoring the context, sure.

 

[snafupants]

Ignoring the context, sure.

Life is details.