Sorting Emotions.

[Nocturne]

Here is some questions:​

1) If we are not happy, does that mean we are sad?
2) If 'yes', I don't have much to say... in fact, I have nothing to comment about that. If 'no', you may be thinking that, for example, anger, jealousy, and fear is neither happy nor sad, but it is an emotion. ​

I woud like to propose, metaphorically, that happiness and sadness are two "main topics" while, e.g., jealousy, fear and anger fall under them as "sub-topics" ​

Example: jealousy may fall under sadness because jealousy itself conveys more "un-happy" thought. .... .... But could jealousy fall also under the "topic" of happiness.
.
.. Perhaps, to skip this whole idea, you might say that we can have/ feel more than one emotion at once. But then, we can't exactly say we are just sad because we may also feel jealous, fearful, and angry all at the same time. ... ... ​

Right???


(... Am I even making any sense at all?!?)​

 

[Jordan~]

I think a more sensible way to categorise emotions would be by their physiological associations - the body's reaction to the emotion. Some emotions, for example, make the body ready to defend itself (drain the extremities of blood, tighten the abdominal muscles to provide a thick wall of muscle around the vitals). I'm pretty sure emotion is largely a symbolic extension of physiological mechanisms and the mental experience of their implementation - regardless of what we're angry with, our body prepares to fight it, even if the thing we're angry with is something like the fact that there's a big gap between the Middle East and the Far East, what the hell is the bit in between, and how come the Near East is so friggin' tiny!? It's hard to actually engage that in combat. Often we only feel the physiological effects if the emotion is very intense - vomiting out of purely conceptual disgust, for instance - but we feel the mental state associated with that physiological state even if the emotion is fairly weak, which leads me to think that it's a metaphorical phenomenon - the brain understanding one thing by reference to another.

This is brainstorming, there are no bad ideas in brainstorming!

 

[ElvenVeil]

after reading what you wrote, a second time, then I would say that you do make sense.

When Jordan writes "the brain understanding one thing by reference to another.", I think he hits the core of the matter.

Basically it says that what we are dealing with, in your case, is just words. When we have the reference then we can start saying ' you are jealous ' = you are thinking about another persons joy with other people in a negative fashion (it makes you unhappy).

that means that you can say that happy and sad are the main catagories, that decides what words we use to express our feelings. (I would also say that content is a third catagory).

Now ideally this should lead to an answer to the actual question; we can say that we are just 'sad' or 'happy' ..
that means (2 examples)
main catagory - > reference - > name

sad - > she is having such fun with him(grrr) - > jealousy

Sad- > ???? - > blue screen of death

as we don't have the reference, we don't have a propper name, and we have to just accept 'sad'.

(sorry that I take so long to write such simple statements.. I think I am in a mood where I just need to explain myself )

 

[OverCaes]

I understand what you're saying. Instead of happiness and sadness, why not categorize them under 'positive' and 'negative'? Happy and sad just belong under one of those, along with the rest of the emotions.

 

[Jordan~]

What about nostalgia? Is that positive or negative? Unrequited love? Righteous indignation? "Positive" and "negative" are insufficient, as some emotions have positive and negative aspects at once. Which is why I say they should be categorised by their physiological effects - that, and those are measurable, and they give an idea of where overlaps in brain chemistry occur. Of course, it can be more complicated - one can laugh with mirth or in disbelief at receiving life-shattering news, one can weep tears of bitter sorrow or sob with joy and relief. I think we could call these "helplessness" responses - reactions to situations in which we're overwhelmed, which, in nature, might have warned others in our group that we required assistance. Perhaps this is why laughter is infectious. Regardless of the situation in which the emotion (and its physiological counterpart) arose, we come to appreciate them based on what we expect of their origins, I think.

 

[OverCaes]

Those would be situational. A grey area.

 

[Jordan~]

But they are never situational, they are always - in my experience - both. Pleasure and pain are mingled in them. When we're nostalgic we're filled with fondness for the thing we remember, there's the warmth of a pleasant recollection mixed with the ache of knowing it's gone. Unrequited love is simultaneously agonising and delightful, the world is so much more beautiful for the feeling and the thought of your beloved makes your heart swell, but the knowledge that you can't love them properly, that you must only love for afar, that you'll never care for them as you so dearly want to is crippling. When we're righteously indignant we feel insulted, shocked, disgusted; how dare this waste of air be so impudent, so brash? Yet we're right! We know better! We're a good person! Our pride is wounded and swollen at once. It's not simply a grey area, it's a coexisting 'positive' and 'negative'.

To complicate things further, one can enjoy being sad. One can deliberately induce crying to make oneself feel better. Equally, we can feel bad for being happy.

 

[OverCaes]

On a roller coaster, going up, one would be excited or nervous or scared, but for what? for the imminent descent. the end result will almost always be the same, but you choose how you feel before getting there.
The same way one could induce crying, one could simply rearrange thoughts to be what they feel is more appropriate.

On the other hand, I feel we may be overthinking these things. Why categorize emotions? Better yet, why even name them? We are just overanalitical animals. I'd like to know what a deaf/blind person thinks about.

 

[Jordan~]

For the sake of better understanding them, maybe? The same reason we categorise personalities using the Myers-Briggs system.

I think that first we should try to identify cultural universals of emotion. We shouldn't assume that even the basics of emotion (like "happy" and "sad") are concepts shared by everyone; for all I know there could be languages in which these concepts are inexpressible. The universals, then, will be physiological responses to brain chemistry that are shared by all members of the species, rather than how that brain chemistry is experienced. Identifying the brain chemistry (by the physiological response) associated with a certain emotion belonging to a certain culture, we can then categorise those emotions according to the brain chemistry that causes them. The same brain chemistry may cause a positive emotion in some and a negative one in others, but because of their common origin these emotions can be categorised meaningfully together, and in doing so we may understand something about them.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Think of it like taste: there are many different tastes, but associated with any is a fundamental "do I like this taste, or dislike it?"

Taking this analogy further, some people may like emotions which others dislike.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I spend a fair amount of time (more than otherwise) being neither happy nor sad. And, sometimes, I am both happy and sad.

 

[CLOfriendOSE]

I somewhat agree with Jordan. The physical manifestation of emotion is very powerful (think about stabbing someone with a knife. Now think about stabbing someone with a knife while doing the motion). Mental information is placed throughout the body in many ways.

Also, we often feel happy and sad *in relation* to other things. Happy and Sad are not opposite, for both oppose apathy. If we believe that happy is opposite sad then it is possible to force yourself into situations when you feel sad "over nothing".

So, if Happy and Sad oppose Apathy, what is the opposite of Apathy. For the reasons of this rant, let's say "Stimulation". Now, this seems more accurate. Happy and Sad are responses to various kinds of stimulation. This includes both physical and mental stimuli. Expectation, then, factors into this stimuli to form "sub-groups" of emotion. Physical state, then, also stores information as this stimulation is experienced.

For example, I find the idea of "contention" different from hapiness. I feel Contention is when sensory information is provided and low expectations are met.

 

[Jordan~]

A little note on the correct usage of the word 'contention': 'contention' is from 'contend', and means 'struggle, argument, debate'. The nominal form of the abjective 'content' is 'contentment'.

On an interesting(?) sidenote, the two words are etymologically related:

contention ← contencion ← contentio ← contentus ← contendere ← con- ('together') + tendere ('to stretch, extend') ← *kom- ('with') + *ten- ('stretch')

contentment ← contentement ← contentamentum ← contentus ← continere ← con- ('together') + tenere ('to hold') ← *kom- ('with') + *ten- ('stretch')

Anyway, back on topic. Is apathy not a response to a stimulus, too? You have to be apathetic about something. I would say the negation of emotion is boredom, as boredom is the lack of stimulation and stimulation necessarily produces an emotional reaction (even if it's apathy). Though you can be bored with something, I think that's a different sense to the strictly intransitive "I'm bored" - it's more similar to "tired of" or "fed up of" - it's an emotional response to having something imposed on you in which you're not interested.

That said, I suppose the lack of a stimulus is a stimulus in itself - literally, in that the lack of stimulus will cause your brain to demand stimulus, which you experience as boredom. Is there such a thing as a negation of emotion? Is it possible to feel nothing?

 

[SkyWalker]

google this: "Plutchik's wheel of emotions"

 

[Jelly Rev]

Also, we often feel happy and sad *in relation* to other things. Happy and Sad are not opposite, for both oppose apathy. If we believe that happy is opposite sad then it is possible to force yourself into situations when you feel sad "over nothing".

here we go.

In my emotion and motivation class we were taught that emotion is actually a V shape with highest negative valence emotion on the left side and postive emotion on the right. It is a V because Higher valanced emotions (greater intensity) have higher arousal levels with the lowest arousal appearing at the center(apathy)
There are studies to back this up but I feel rather lazy at the moment, will add more info later along with a complete theory on emotions and the human condition that I created some months ago using this V shape.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

here we go.

In my emotion and motivation class we were taught that emotion is actually a V shape with highest negative valence emotion on the left side and postive emotion on the right. It is a V because Higher valanced emotions (greater intensity) have higher arousal levels with the lowest arousal appearing at the center(apathy)
There are studies to back this up but I feel rather lazy at the moment, will add more info later along with a complete theory on emotions and the human condition that I created some months ago using this V shape.

:S why does this need to be backed up? what could be the alternative? More than two rising arms or something?

 

[jamesreed292]

First of all, don't end with "Am I making any sense at all???". Trust in your instincts as well as your feelings in all situations, and for the record yes you make perfect sense in your question. I think that your mistrust in yourself has something to do with the creation of the topic at hand.

Now down to happiness. Happiness and sadness are both relative, sometimes depression can be a good thing. I was at a philosophy meetup and after the initial discussion a very nice lady told me she thought I was a little depressed. I do take medication ( I did not mention that to her ) but I explained to this nice lady that she was right, I did feel a depressed. Although depression in this case was a good thing, because my mind was starting to open up to the rest of the world. With new knowledge comes new questions, then answers, then more questions, then you come to the realization that you know nothing and even if you try your whole life to figure out the universe the knowledge you acquire is relative. The depression she saw in my eyes and heard in my voice came from the realization that I know nothing, and while this saddened me, it also invigorated me to learn more because time is running out.

To your point earlier, I do believe that happiness can be sadness and vise versa, based on my thoughts above. Depression can be good and happiness can bad if you think of bliss from an ignorance point of view.

 

[Jelly Rev]

why does this need to be backed up?

lol the v-shape is simple but there is more to it.

actually shoot I found a theorist who has thought up something similar
.
http://http://rick.oacea.com/misc/polara/pubs/cogtech1999.html

 

[Jordan~]

The fact that those little grey figures are really cute makes me want to believe this theory. If I don't believe it I'll feel like I've betrayed those little grey figures and hurt their feelings.