Something really f***ed up is going on with banks

Tannhauser · Jan 24, 2016

This other day I tried to open a bank account in Sweden. It didn't happen – they started interrogating me about all kinds of details, including which firm I worked for and where it was located. I said "fuck off" and left. I've heard many such stories lately. One of my parents tried to withdraw cash from their bank account, and got questions from the bank about what the purpose of the withdrawal was. A friend of mine is getting calls from his bank about the origin of the money in his account (about $1500).

Now, how the fuck do commercial banks allow themselves to do all this shit? I know what some of you will say: these are countermeasures against money laundering and organized crime. Now, here is a question: how many money launderers are opening up accounts in commercial banks and wiring money back and forth? Apparently, it is very hard to use any one of the millions of alternative options out there, including Paypal, Neteller, Bitcoin and so on.

Quite recently, the largest bank in Norway, DNB, demanded the banning of physical cash (source). Again, with the reason that it will counteract crime. It is funny that this happens at a time when it has probably never been easier to move money electronically oustide the banks' systems. Somehow, they never thought of this genius idea before although we have been using debit cards for many, many years.

An excellent article was written on the war on cash here, and why it happens at this point in time. The gist of it is that central banks hate physical cash because this money is protected from negative interest rates. They don't want people to save money, they want every dupe out there to take on debt and spend it like an idiot on any shit he/she can get a hold of. "It's good for growth". Of course, commercial banks love it too, because if all money goes electronically through them, they can charge fees on every single transaction that takes place on earth.

It seems to me that we are moving into strange territory where commercial banks are allowed to infringe overtly on people's privacy and freedom, and most people seem to accept it. As long as the banks can provide people with stupid "apps" and other idiotic gimmicks, the people are content.

As for me, I put down some personal rules:
- Never open an account at a bank which support the banning of physical cash.
- Perform almost all transactions with physical cash
- If I am to save money, I say "fuck you" to any bank out there and invest in physical things
- Never buy stock in a commercial bank which support the banning of physical cash

Black Rose · Jan 24, 2016

When the banks start negative interest rates on mass then people will get angry, many people will die because everyone's retirement money is gone. This could have happened in 2008. The stock market crashes every 7 years and banks need money. That is why the bail outs worked in 2008. The next time a crash happens they will steal from everyone and heads will role. They have no plan for the next crash.

Analyzer · Jan 25, 2016

The war on cash is hilarious, yet scary.

Happy · Jan 25, 2016

Cash is king!

Sinny91 · Jan 25, 2016

Hmm, it's been predicted for a while that 2016 might be the crash year..

I've been slipping in terms of keeping on top of this one- nice to know others aren't at least.

Intolerable · Jan 25, 2016

Central planning. It does a number of things like dehumanizing people and cultures and beliefs. Like with cash. Central planners want to 'fix' something and don't mind breaking a dozen other things so long as those things happen off their books and out of their lives.

Like with anything else, this Jerry is only interested in fixing this particular problem and isn't worried about the dozen other problems that will be created in its wake because he won't be dealing with those problems. We will.

Negative interest is logical in the eyes of the central planner. To be honest I'm surprised it has taken this long to work its way around the table.

Yellow · Jan 25, 2016

Tannhauser said:
As for me, I put down some personal rules:
- Never open an account at a bank which support the banning of physical cash.
- Perform almost all transactions with physical cash
- If I am to save money, I say "fuck you" to any bank out there and invest in physical things
- Never buy stock in a commercial bank which support the banning of physical cash

I agree with these points, and your aversion to banking in general. During my brief, glorious singleness, I didn't have a bank account. I dealt entirely in cash, and things I couldn't pay in cash, I paid with money-orders (I was lucky that I could pay my utilities at the local grocery store, which cut down on my money-ordering).

It was incredibly liberating.

As for the banks who support the banning of physical cash, they all do. But more than banks, governments want it. The Five Eyes, the EU, and the BRICs could all see the great benefit from banning cash. If an article came out tomorrow saying that there was some conspiracy between the banks and the government to push this concept onto us (probably through scare tactics), I'd not bat an eye.

Illustrative tangent:

Think about the microchips they put in pets right now. I've asked some parents, "if you could chip your child, would you do it?", and many have said "yes" (with enthusiasm). Imagine we made this available to parents tomorrow. Some would be disgusted by the idea, but I betcha that some would be beating down the doctor's door to have that thing installed first thing in the morning.

Imagine that this pattern continues. Some parents chip, some don't. But now, when a child "goes missing", those with the chips are found right away. They can't get lost or kidnapped. Of course, the "unchipped" children would still go missing. How many "tragedies" would it take before it became a mandate for all children? (with the option to remove at 18, of course). How much longer after that would it take before it's just a hospital routine?

Now, how easy do you think it would be to convince an 18 year old to leave his chip in? A few more sensational stories of adults being brutally murdered by ex's or serial killers? No matter, it would become required as identification, as a part of the hiring process with any job, it would be just another part of life.

They (the infrastructural giants in general) get us to "understand why they have to do it", and so we'll defend their invasive behaviors. Then it primes us for the next step, and the next.

"Cards" were a convenience. Now, there are a number of purchases you cannot make with cash. Have you ever tried to get a hotel room with cash? Rent a car? Buy a plane ticket (if you do find a way, you'll get to go in the "special line")? But we totally understand why they have to do it that way...

AphroditeGoneAwry · Jan 25, 2016

Any institution that we come to rely on for basic living will assume more and more power over us. And we will be at their mercy.

Here is a list of the most powerful:

Banks
Insurance companies
Schools (government or private)
Medical care
Gas
Grocery stores (to a lesser degree)

If you don't want to be a victim of their arbitrary rules and power, do not put yourself in a position to rely upon them. Of course, because the masses DO rely on them, when they crash we are all affected.

The funny part is we all assume we are in control. Even when we pathetically are not in control. It's a lie we all tell ourselves.

Haim · Jan 25, 2016

Sinny91 said:
Hmm, it's been predicted for a while that 2016 might be the crash year..

I've been slipping in terms of keeping on top of this one- nice to know others aren't at least.

Bank crash?I don't think so, I think they learned how much they can steal, when problem come they just balance that out(many times with the state help)

AphroditeGoneAwry · Jan 26, 2016

Haim said:
Bank crash?I don't think so, I think they learned how much they can steal, when problem come they just balance that out(many times with the state help)

I am predicting the next crash will be in the insurance market. (and the insurance market was at the heart of the last crash in the form of otc derivatives which was a kind of insurance sold to banks).

But I don't think it will hit in 2016, but maybe 2017-2018.

Intolerable · Jan 26, 2016

Haim said:
Bank crash?I don't think so, I think they learned how much they can steal, when problem come they just balance that out(many times with the state help)

They're all centrists. Instead of pointing to the parasite class and saying they're the problem they find a way to smooth over the imbalanced financial sheets with both private and public economic policies.

Obamacare is a perfect example of this. No sane person advocates a single payer system when so many Americans are obese and out of shape. So they continue the for-profit and gouge the fuck out of responsible, paying Americans to pay for the irresponsible, non-paying Americans.

They're all in on the same game. They don't want America to break down into a civil war. A war that has been long overdue. The problem for them is they are running out of our time, money and patience. They're kicking the can down the road but people are really tired of that shit. Hence Trump, hence Sanders.

AphroditeGoneAwry · Jan 26, 2016

Intolerable said:
They're all centrists. Instead of pointing to the parasite class and saying they're the problem they find a way to smooth over the imbalanced financial sheets with both private and public economic policies.

Obamacare is a perfect example of this. No sane person advocates a single payer system when so many Americans are obese and out of shape. So they continue the for-profit and gouge the fuck out of responsible, paying Americans to pay for the irresponsible, non-paying Americans.

They're all in on the same game. They don't want America to break down into a civil war. A war that has been long overdue. The problem for them is they are running out of our time, money and patience. They're kicking the can down the road but people are really tired of that shit. Hence Trump, hence Sanders.

You delude yourself at the least when you think that it is the common civilian who is causing the problems in health care. And you cause excessive trauma at the most in implying that the problems in health care are in any way due to sick people who are just trying to be well.

Don't attack your fellow Americans because you have to pay (a lot) for health care. Blame the real culprits with are the insurance companies, the medical community, the hospital corporations, and now the federal government.

Intolerable · Jan 26, 2016

AphroditeGoneAwry said:
You delude yourself at the least when you think that it is the common civilian who is causing the problems in health care. And you cause excessive trauma at the most in implying that the problems in health care are in any way due to sick people who are just trying to be well.

Don't attack your fellow Americans because you have to pay (a lot) for health care. Blame the real culprits with are the insurance companies, the medical community, the hospital corporations, and now the federal government.

I would assume you would say I'm deluded. How about some facts?

Diabetes has soared 60% in just the past decade.

Diabetes last year cost 322 billion dollars to treat.

1 in 3 medicare dollars are spent on diabetes.

1 in 5 health care dollars are spent on diabetes.

30 million Americans have diabetes. 80 million have precursor diabetes.

By 2030, annual direct medical costs associated with cardiovascular diseases are projected to rise to more than $818 billion, while lost productivity costs could exceed $275 billion.

http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/infographics/adv-staggering-cost-of-diabetes.html

http://www.cdcfoundation.org/pr/201...1-billion-day-medical-costs-lost-productivity

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...-the-outrageous-cost-of-health-care/index.htm

Bottom line: the irresponsible are shoving their problems off on the medical industry who are forced to shove their costs off on everyone else who is paying to stay in business.

The chief reason health care in the US is so expensive is due to emerging manmade diseases like diabetes and cardiovascular disease / hypertension. The lifestyle we've adopted has led to this and the younger generation is going to be even sicker when they reach middle age.

If you look at rising healthcare costs they are actually rising all over the developed world. Not just in America. From 1980 to about 2015 every single developed country has seen healthcare costs rise four times. Even in the NHS cost has risen.

Black Rose · Jan 26, 2016

Jeremy Rifkin - How The 3rd Industrial Revolution Will Change The World

PaulMaster · Jan 29, 2016

Insurance costs so much because of how much services cost. Services cost so much because they can bill insurance. And so on. Insurance costs are high because they have to make profit and pay for claims. From the point of view of the medical industry, insurance companies are customers. They'll continue raising prices until customers cant or wont pay those prices. Insurance companies have the same dynamic at work with their customers - they'll continue to raise rates to cover costs/profits until their customers are unwilling or unable to pay premiums. Lucky for them (although, luck had nothing to do with it, commercial entities are the puppet masters and drive legislation) its now the law that people have to buy insurance. The ceiling for insurance premium prices was raised significantly with that law.

So, while it's true that sick people have an influence on prices, they're not picking on healthy people. They'll charge everyone (anyone) as much as they possibly can. They're equal opportunity gougers.

I disagree with using the word culprit for the insurance companies, the medical community, the hospital corporations, and now the federal government, because it carries a negative value in the definition - as if those entities are criminals. I dont see it that way. Regardless, I do agree with the idea that they are the root cause of the prices. They set the prices, obviously, so who else would be to "blame"?

Ex-User (9086) · Jan 30, 2016

Yellow said:
As for the banks who support the banning of physical cash, they all do. But more than banks, governments want it. The Five Eyes, the EU, and the BRICs could all see the great benefit from banning cash. If an article came out tomorrow saying that there was some conspiracy between the banks and the government to push this concept onto us (probably through scare tactics), I'd not bat an eye.

I agree with your points. Moreover I'd add that there's a possible scenario where 'centralizers' don't want to stop there, they want to devalue every material possession there is. Money is the initial step.

If they manage to destabilise agricultural and industrial goods value, they will be in a position of power, because their worth will rely only on their decisions and regulations, putting every citizen and country-member at their mercy. This leads to a world where worth of anything is completely arbitrary, dependent solely on the centers of power and their whims. Any attempts at breaking out would be impossible, easily thwarted by market-programming (the kind of chaos already seen on stock markets).

I see this trend slowly evolving, EU disempowers and restricts their local food production becoming more reliant on external providers, already every EU country had to follow embargo rules with Russia and suffers from uncompetitive, artificial resource scarcity as imposed by various regulations. This could just be the beginning.

Causeless · Feb 11, 2016

American here.

Very soon is the time I feel I will have to bear teeth.

Brontosaurie · Feb 11, 2016

Causeless said:
American here.

Very soon is the time I feel I will have to bear teeth.

Do you mean wear teeth?

Sorry, i am actually neither boring nor a jerk. Please forgive me.

Tannhauser · Feb 11, 2016

I guess this is consistent with the theories:

"we should move quickly to a cashless economy so that we could introduce negative rates well below 1%" – Anonymous policy maker.

Source

If that happens, people are gonna hoard something anyway, be it cash notes of some alternative currency, or gold, or stamps or whatever.

Happy · Feb 11, 2016

Brontosaurie said:
Do you mean wear teeth?

Sorry, i am actually neither boring nor a jerk. Please forgive me.

Nah, I'm pretty sure he meant "two bear teeth".

PaulMaster · Feb 11, 2016

Tannhauser said:
If that happens, people are gonna hoard something anyway, be it cash notes of some alternative currency, or gold, or stamps or whatever.

I agree with this. Over time, should banks start implementing negative interest, people will stop playing their game. People will develop and maintain alternative forms of currency. It would take quite a while to completely overhaul the entire system, but it would happen, slowly and surely. Until then, folks would hoard, stash whatever they could. It might turn out that people would stop using money for a while.

This is kind of like an idea I've been tossing around in my head for a some time now. Its not really developed, but I'll try to express it properly...

If an entity (banks, in this case), in their drive for profits, completely wins the game and gets all the money, the game is over. Their money is useless because nobody can play that game any more. I dont even think a single entity has to win. If the banking industry as a whole accumulates enough of the total money the game will end as well. People (collectively) wont have enough money to stay in the game, so new games (economies) will start popping up - barter systems and such until another currency system replaces.

Thoughts?

Haim · Feb 11, 2016

PaulMaster said:
I agree with this. Over time, should banks start implementing negative interest, people will stop playing their game. People will develop and maintain alternative forms of currency. It would take quite a while to completely overhaul the entire system, but it would happen, slowly and surely. Until then, folks would hoard, stash whatever they could. It might turn out that people would stop using money for a while.

This is kind of like an idea I've been tossing around in my head for a some time now. Its not really developed, but I'll try to express it properly...

If an entity (banks, in this case), in their drive for profits, completely wins the game and gets all the money, the game is over. Their money is useless because nobody can play that game any more. I dont even think a single entity has to win. If the banking industry as a whole accumulates enough of the total money the game will end as well. People (collectively) wont have enough money to stay in the game, so new games (economies) will start popping up - barter systems and such until another currency system replaces.

Thoughts?

Banks learned their lesson from history, they know how to keep it just about that it will not break.Even if the banks will have 99.99% of the total money, it will not matter as long as they don't use that money, like the money doesn't exists, more than that it will cause virtual deflation making their 99.99% more valuable.

Tannhauser · Feb 11, 2016

PaulMaster said:
If an entity (banks, in this case), in their drive for profits, completely wins the game and gets all the money, the game is over. Their money is useless because nobody can play that game any more. I dont even think a single entity has to win. If the banking industry as a whole accumulates enough of the total money the game will end as well. People (collectively) wont have enough money to stay in the game, so new games (economies) will start popping up - barter systems and such until another currency system replaces.

Thoughts?

I think it depends on what you mean by "money". If you are talking about capital reserves, banks don't like them. They way things work now, banks have an incentive to have no capital whatsoever, and earn profits by lending money. People generally don't know this, but banks literally make money out of thin air every day. Due to the fractional reserve system, 90% of all money in circulation is created as debt by the banks. So they have no incentive to keep money, they just want to lend as much as possible. If it were up to the banks, they would probably have 0 reserves, and just earn their money on the lending.

But contrary to popular belief, banks actually have never made any money. The reason is, namely, that they like to take too much risk with the fractional reserves, and end up losing all the profits they ever made (+ some) at regular intervals. Last time that happened, as we all know, was in 2008.

Isn't that ironic? Most of the banks exist today only by virtue of having been bailed out with tax-payer money. But now they want even more of your cash, and have even more control over you.

Sinny91 · Feb 11, 2016

I hate how we keep referring to these slavery institutions as 'entities'..

Who's running these banks? Let's gut and hang them all.

PaulMaster · Feb 11, 2016

Tannhauser said:
But contrary to popular belief, banks actually have never made any money. The reason is, namely, that they like to take too much risk with the fractional reserves, and end up losing all the profits they ever made (+ some) at regular intervals.

While I try to never refer to myself as "most people", I certainly did not know this.

Are the banks in debt to themselves some how? Because they are clearly spending money.

Yellow · Feb 11, 2016

Sinny91 said:
I hate how we keep referring to these slavery institutions as 'entities'..

Who's running these banks? Let's gut and hang them all.

Let's not.

Primarily because it's hard to pinpoint the "culprit" exactly. Most are just people with jobs. I don't like every aspect of my job, and I certainly don't think I deserve the guillotine. I've known bankers who are decent people, but they represent "evil" institutions.

I'm not happy with the way things are going, but I understand that everyone is going to protect their own interests as often as possible. It's quite probable that most people involved in these entities are well-meaning enough (not altruistic, but "fair-minded" from their own perspective).

Secondly because Reign-of-Terror-like attitudes don't bring about positive social change. Nor do they accomplish much in the long-run (even when they do get to behead the bourgeois willy-nilly).
"Sacre bleu! We killed all of our official, financial, and community leaders with absolutely no back up plan! I don't know what's better, the entrails strewn in the street, or the thrill of Napoleon's charisma. Thank Dieu we have the metric system, or this whole thing would have been a wash."

Sinny91 · Feb 11, 2016

Lul, my bad, I didn't mean 'them all',

I'd settle for the CEO's upwards... Up to, you know, Rothschilds and the Black Pope - and the usual Pope, why not.

Call me crazy, but they're at the top.
And they wouldn't hesitate in seeing you dead in the name of profit.

I disageee, it is not hard to pin point the culprits. Follow the money.

In our current system, the rich are gettin richer and the poor are getting poorer.
Those at the top are leeches, parasites, they need removed.

Reign of Terror attitudes get things done. This is war, and I won't budge.
We are all slaves, being robbed and murdered on a daily basis. my government is treasonous and indebted to private banks, which are run by bankers. Evil has a face all right, many faces, and I intend to see them exposed.

Tannhauser · Feb 11, 2016

PaulMaster said:
While I try to never refer to myself as "most people", I certainly did not know this.

Are the banks in debt to themselves some how? Because they are clearly spending money.

Everyone is in debt to someone

. Banks lend money between themselves in the interbank lending market, and they also issue debt through corporate bonds. Even you can lend money to your own bank by buying their bonds. But how much debt exists between them is an interesting question, I don't know.

Tannhauser · Feb 11, 2016

Yellow said:
Let's not.
I don't like every aspect of my job, and I certainly don't think I deserve the guillotine.

Do you work in a bank, Yellow?

crippli · Feb 11, 2016

I like banks the best when I'm able to 'screw' them over. A couple of years ago I bought an apartment by the sea. And I had to get like 95% loan to buy it. I lied from one end to the next. And got the money. Last value judgement was around 100k$ more worth then what I bought it for. And I think it's more like 150.

What annoyed me the most was their ridiculous rules. I had to go to a person high up, to explain the situation, and why they should give me the money.

Of course, the bank want interest. But the value goes up. And if I wanted to make a shitload of money on this deal, I could rent it out to students or others. But I use it for vacation a month or so during the year. The value increase is still 2x the cost of the loan pr year

I'm not upset with the banks. It's just a game. And it's okay as long as one can decide if one want to play.

Basically, they lend me an apartment. And if I rent it out for ten years. They have given it to me for free.

Grayman · Feb 11, 2016

Tannhauser said:
Do you work in a bank, Yellow?

EVERYONE works for the bank. It's just that not everyone realizes it. Haven't you noticed that no matter what 'company' you get hired by your pay always comes to you from the bank?

Yellow · Feb 12, 2016

Tannhauser said:
Do you work in a bank, Yellow?

Grayman said:
EVERYONE works for the bank. It's just that not everyone realizes it. Haven't you noticed that no matter what 'company' you get hired by your pay always comes to you from the bank?

Ha! what he said.

No, but I work for "the man", kinda sometimes.

PaulMaster · Feb 12, 2016

Tannhauser said:
Everyone is in debt to someone . Banks lend money between themselves in the interbank lending market, and they also issue debt through corporate bonds. Even you can lend money to your own bank by buying their bonds. But how much debt exists between them is an interesting question, I don't know.

This is all fascinating stuff. I've always intended, but never gotten around to studying and understanding the economic world. I mean, I know some things, sure, but I'm not fluent.

PaulMaster · Feb 12, 2016

crippli said:
I'm not upset with the banks. It's just a game. And it's okay as long as one can decide if one want to play.

Same here. I dont even believe in Evil. For as long as the current social patterns have existed, it seems absurd to believe that there wouldn't be entities all over the place with a huge lead, that have mastered and dominated their chosen path. I have a lot of respect for excellence in any field.

There are trade off's all over civilization.

Sinny91 · Feb 13, 2016

PaulMaster said:
This is all fascinating stuff. I've always intended, but never gotten around to studying and understanding the economic world. I mean, I know some things, sure, but I'm not fluent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_banking_family_of_England

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sea...WQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Queens+Gold&fr=onesearchnew

The Secrets of the Federal Reserve: Eustace Mullins: 9780979917653: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41nGO0SPAkL.@@AMEPARAM@@41nGO0SPAkL

The conspiracy against the dollar;: The spirit of the New Imperialism: Peter Beter: 9780807607107: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41zoAX%2BMshL.@@AMEPARAM@@41zoAX%2BMshL

Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler: Antony C. Sutton: 9780945001539: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FKH9KHPHL.@@AMEPARAM@@41FKH9KHPHL

Anglo-American Establishment: Amazon.co.uk: Carroll Quigley: 9781939438041: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xUeCEIqHL.@@AMEPARAM@@51xUeCEIqHL

Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time: Carroll Quigley: 9781939438119: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jwtDDTcuL.@@AMEPARAM@@51jwtDDTcuL

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: John Perkins: 9781576753019: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41mAUFiWdwL.@@AMEPARAM@@41mAUFiWdwL

PaulMaster · Feb 13, 2016

Adding to Amazon wish list - Thank you very much!

Sinny91 · Feb 13, 2016

You're welcome, don't feel guilty in looking for the PDFs online, the authors are long departed, and would encourage such - mostly.

Oh and look for some interviews on YouTube, just as informative.

PaulMaster · Feb 13, 2016

Sinny91 said:
don't feel guilty for looking for the PDFs online,

Guilty? lol, no. Snobbishly (romantically) choosing books over other media, absolutely!

Happy · Feb 13, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7hE6MlFzz4

Sinny91 · Feb 13, 2016

PaulMaster said:
Guilty? lol, no. Snobbishly (romantically) choosing books over other media, absolutely!

Lul, I don't blame you - I do prefer the real McCoy maself - although I am prone to cutting corners in lack of patience.

Ex-User (9086) · Feb 13, 2016

Happy said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7hE6MlFzz4

Lol. Just the right amount of awkward and absurd.

crippli · Feb 17, 2016

PaulMaster said:
Same here. I dont even believe in Evil. For as long as the current social patterns have existed, it seems absurd to believe that there wouldn't be entities all over the place with a huge lead, that have mastered and dominated their chosen path. I have a lot of respect for excellence in any field.

There are trade off's all over civilization.

It's probably healthy to have this respect. But only enough to remove them from their position, when the time is right, if they sour the game.

What I try to say, is that they(the bank) also need to remain respectful, otherwise they will be fought. The survival of the enormous profit of the banks is but a vote away by some law. Or ultimately, they can all be taken by force, theoretically.

I don't think things are all that different from the card games in the old wild west. If you cheat(and get caught), you get shot. Banks should go under too, if water gets too deep. Not sure if this system is working properly.

My personal opinion is that dirty tricks against the banks are fine, as they themselves apply the same.So if one wants to play them,one better be prepared to swim in the sewage.

Something really f***ed up is going on with banks

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