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Social Anxiety - Please Help Me Help My Wife

ssmith3427

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Please help me help my wife

Allison has had some type of social anxiety her entire life, since the day she was born. As a baby, whenever she would come close to any other human, she would start shaking and crying. As a child she was always extremely quiet and shy and nervous. In social situations she always had the rapid heart beat, loss of breath, blood rushing to the face feeling, excessive sweating, etc.

High school was the same situation, she kept to herself in order to avoid the anxiety, but she did have friends who she socialized with and was okay with. Every lunchtime at school she would need to walk into the cafeteria with her friends - if her friends were already seated inside, she’d call home almost in tears and having a slight panic attack, and get her mom to pick her up, as the anxiety and stress of walking in alone and trying to find where her friends were seated was too much.

In her first year of University, she had a roommate, and her roommate was extremely popular and outgoing and because Allison hung out with her roommate, this boosted Allison’s confidence and made her feel cooler, and in turn decreased her anxiety. Allison was a big partier that year, going to parties drinking twice a week and hanging out with the ‘coolest’ and most confident people there. Although she still had anxiety all the time, it was greatly decreased because of this, as her confidence and self-esteem had increased because she associated herself as one of these popular cool people, which she has always strived to be her whole life. But the anxiety was still there, for example if she was going to class and she has to walk into the classroom even 1 minute late, she would just avoid the class and be too scared to go. Another example is for every single class, she always got there 20 minutes early, because getting there within 5 mins of class starting caused her great anxiety in the sense that she didn’t know if she’d be able to find a seat, if they’d all be taken and she’d look dumb for trying to find where to sit.

Within the last few years her anxiety had been very high. In April 2013 she went on Zoloft, which helped at a dose of 100mg. She had always been a happy person, and the Zoloft made her a little bit happier and much more calm. She said in many situations that it helped calm her physical symptoms ie. racing heart, loss of breath, etc. It helped her get through school for graphic design and do presentations. She said she felt a normal amount of nervousness that a normal person would feel, instead of the extreme anxiety that she would normally get. However, Zoloft was making her gain quite a bit of weight, and made her acne very bad as well. So she came off Zoloft in February 2015.

It is also important to note that from Sept. to December 2015 she did CBT. It helped slightly. Around this time she also went to an endocrinologist. The most significant points are - Androstenedione 18.9 (average in normal person 1.5 - 11.50 mmol/L), Creatine 14.3 (average in normal person 6.3 - 13., mmol/d), and Dopamine 3135 (average in normal person <2600 mmol/d). Note 1, she was on Zolofat for almost 2 years while this test was conducted. Note 2, no seratonin test conducted. Note 3, could she be Dopamine dominant from birth?

Since she has stopped taking Zoloft, her life has spiralled downward. She had become depressed, which she’s never felt anything like in her entire life. She lost interest in things she used to enjoy, she had nothing to look forward to. A lot of this depression was actually caused by her work as a freelance graphic designer. She couldn’t handle the stress of the clients, the clients needs and demands and how they always needed things done asap. She also nearly had a heart attack every single time she would just check her email, because she didn’t know if there would be an email from a client saying they didn’t like her work, or what revisions needed to be done, or if they wanted to talk on the phone. She couldn’t deal with speaking to clients on the phone or meeting up in person, and to be honest even emailing them back. These situations caused her such great anxiety that she was constantly overwhelmed and absolutely hated life.

She went back to the doctor in May 2015 to get a different medication that didn’t cause weight gain- Wellbutrin. She was on 100mg of Wellbutrin, which ended up just increasing her anxiety and made her angry all the time - which is completely opposite of her personality. The immense agitation set her off and the smallest things. She stopped taking Wellbutrin in July 2015. I've no idea why Zoloft worked to an extent, yet Wellbutrin has such a negative effect?

Since then, she had completely stopped working and took that major stress and cause of hating life out of the picture. She feels like a weight has been lifted off her shoulders since she has stopped working. However, even a single client email she reads now puts her right back to how she felt back then. Her anxiety is still very high, in any type of social situation at all her heart races, loss of breath, weak knees, crazy sweating. She always feels like she’s in fight or flight mode, high adrenaline. And the mental thinking part of it is actually worse now than ever before. She has always had the racing thoughts, negative thoughts (while she was on Zoloft the thoughts were more positive, but she still had negative ones). She will constantly have thoughts going through her head like “what are these people thinking of me”, “do they think I’m sitting properly or should I lean in a different direction?”, “should i say hi to this person or will they think I’m weird? Will I come across as rude if I don’t say hi?” These thoughts are constantly swirling around in her head and she can’t stop thinking them. Her thoughts are all basically about how people perceive her, and how they are judging her. She can’t stand the thought of someone judging her in a negative light. In addition she has low self-esteem. She always feels inferior to others. When talking with others, she is 20% focussing on what she is saying, and 80% focussing on how she is coming across - how the other person is perceiving what she is saying.

In addition, when she goes out with her friends she is able to put on this super friendly, super outgoing front. We think it's because she's got so much adrenaline at the time, that it's allowing her to be able to put on this alternate version of herself with no problem at all. It's hard to describe.

Overall problems:

- social anxiety
- constant negative thoughts
- low self-esteem
- minor depression
- needs validation from others in order to be happy and confident (example many people liking her new facebook profile picture will make her feel great and can change her mood right around)
- zero libido (has never had one)
- joint pain (knees, ankles, back)
- plantar faciatis
- hiperhydrosis
- acne

Current Treatment:

- no medication
- exercise 30 minutes every day
- glutin free, dairy free healthy eating plan
- meditation every two days
- plan on seeing a natruopath within the next month

All in all I am looking for different solutions to try and help my wife with her anxiety, be it different medication or alternative lifestyle choices I can implement for my wife. Recommendations are all very welcomed. Thank you!
 

cheese

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That sounds pretty terrible.
I feel like a doofus for recommending this again, but try probiotics. There's some promising evidence (scientific studies) suggesting it decreases anxiety and depression. I stumbled upon this by accident after taking them for general health and finding in a week or two I felt much calmer. I wasn't aware of the link at all.

Get capsules which have a mix of several different species, with billions per capsule. Make sure there's some Lactobacillus Rhamnosus and Bifidobacterium longum. Lactobacillus Reuteri is good too. (Actually lots of them are good but these are the main ones I remember looking at the studies for.) Get good quality ones which are refrigerated (check how they're shipped too) or don't require refrigeration and state this clearly on the bottle (I use non-refrigerated ones, though I do store them in the fridge once I've bought them).

I take 120billion/day. I've tried lower doses and while they had an effect, this amount seems the most protective for me specifically. I suggest you start low with your wife though. You don't know how she'll take to it and to be honest we don't know what other effects there might be long-term, but if she's struggling so much it's worth a try. Probiotics are also good for other health problems anyway. You do need at least a billion for it to have any sort of effect on your system at all (this is what I remember from general reading about probiotics in the past).

For me:
I'm definitely calmer
I don't sink into the worst depressions, or if I do they don't last long or are blunted
My bad feelings are blunted. I'm not able to dwell in them for long - they disappear. This does leave me feeling sort of disconnected from myself at times, but it's better to be able to function.
I don't get stuck in those anxious/depressed-rumination pits

I still definitely feel like me, I don't feel like a zombie, or like I'm dead. I still have emotions and respond to things normally, and my positive emotions seem fine. I just don't get as caught up in negative thought loops, nor do I experience negative emotions as intensely or for as long, anymore. I'm also more vague and have slightly worse short-term memory, but this is also what enables me to 'forget' negative experiences.

There is one caveat. I've found that when trying to wean off them, I'm ok for a week or so, but then the anxiety starts creeping back, and it feels much more intense and physical than ever before. I'm not sure if this is because I've forgotten how it feels (I don't think so), or because of recent stressful circumstances, or because it somehow makes you more fragile than before if you go off them. I haven't stayed off long enough to see if it normalises back to my usual state before I tried the pills. (One guess is that coming off them allows the more harmful gut bacteria to explode in population as they are no longer being out-competed by the probiotics. Perhaps in weaning off you'd need a super clean diet to keep them in check.)

There are all kinds of other promising therapies I've read about. Try reddit to see what's worked for people. I can't remember any off the top of my head, sorry. I really hope this helps your wife - she's not living in a good state.
 

Minuend

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Yes, there's a connection between anxiety, depression and gut (like a scientific one).

I could probably write a very long post about my experience but that would be off topic. But in summary I have digestive problems and when my digestive system is worse, so is nervousness and I also tend to feel bummed out for no reason. Things I previously didn't care about suddenly starts to make me sad.
I'm probably a bit more susceptible to what I eat than the normal person, I also notice a decline in mental clarity and concentration when my gut is feeling worse.

By the way, has she been checked for physical illnesses? There are physical illnesses that causes symptoms as described. Has she been checked for neurological/ neurodevelopmental illnesses? Auto immune illnesses?

Some of the problem with modern psychiatry is they don't understand how neurology and the physical body connects to the mind. They tend to diagnose depression/ anxiety- never checking whether there's a psychical illness or problem behind it. I guess we might be lacking in technology as well at that, in a way.
 

Grayman

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How is her menstruation history? Has she had her testosterone levels checked? Is she on birth control?


Seems she was in her best condition when she wasn't on medication and simply got out and spent time with the right people.

I have and I think many people have these thoughts that cause anxiety but some people cannot let go of the mental cycle that drives them into panic mode and fear. Meditation is supposed to help you let go of those thoughts. How is she handling her meditation? Any concerns on how it is working?

Does she have a counselor that can provide tools on how to deal with anxiety cycles? Anxiety isn't just about the chemical soup your brain sits in but about how your brain deals with your thoughts and interacts with that soup. The brain can change the soup(with perceptions and thoughts) just as much as the brain can be affected by the soup.
 

ssmith3427

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That sounds pretty terrible.
I feel like a doofus for recommending this again, but try probiotics. There's some promising evidence (scientific studies) suggesting it decreases anxiety and depression. I stumbled upon this by accident after taking them for general health and finding in a week or two I felt much calmer. I wasn't aware of the link at all.

Get capsules which have a mix of several different species, with billions per capsule. Make sure there's some Lactobacillus Rhamnosus and Bifidobacterium longum. Lactobacillus Reuteri is good too. (Actually lots of them are good but these are the main ones I remember looking at the studies for.) Get good quality ones which are refrigerated (check how they're shipped too) or don't require refrigeration and state this clearly on the bottle (I use non-refrigerated ones, though I do store them in the fridge once I've bought them).

I take 120billion/day. I've tried lower doses and while they had an effect, this amount seems the most protective for me specifically. I suggest you start low with your wife though. You don't know how she'll take to it and to be honest we don't know what other effects there might be long-term, but if she's struggling so much it's worth a try. Probiotics are also good for other health problems anyway. You do need at least a billion for it to have any sort of effect on your system at all (this is what I remember from general reading about probiotics in the past).

For me:
I'm definitely calmer
I don't sink into the worst depressions, or if I do they don't last long or are blunted
My bad feelings are blunted. I'm not able to dwell in them for long - they disappear. This does leave me feeling sort of disconnected from myself at times, but it's better to be able to function.
I don't get stuck in those anxious/depressed-rumination pits

I still definitely feel like me, I don't feel like a zombie, or like I'm dead. I still have emotions and respond to things normally, and my positive emotions seem fine. I just don't get as caught up in negative thought loops, nor do I experience negative emotions as intensely or for as long, anymore. I'm also more vague and have slightly worse short-term memory, but this is also what enables me to 'forget' negative experiences.

There is one caveat. I've found that when trying to wean off them, I'm ok for a week or so, but then the anxiety starts creeping back, and it feels much more intense and physical than ever before. I'm not sure if this is because I've forgotten how it feels (I don't think so), or because of recent stressful circumstances, or because it somehow makes you more fragile than before if you go off them. I haven't stayed off long enough to see if it normalises back to my usual state before I tried the pills. (One guess is that coming off them allows the more harmful gut bacteria to explode in population as they are no longer being out-competed by the probiotics. Perhaps in weaning off you'd need a super clean diet to keep them in check.)

There are all kinds of other promising therapies I've read about. Try reddit to see what's worked for people. I can't remember any off the top of my head, sorry. I really hope this helps your wife - she's not living in a good state.

Ah I forgot to mention. Over the past month she has been on a good refrigerated probiotic for the first time in her life. She feels her anxiety and mood is slightly better, however, this could be down to the glutin free/diary free eating plan and exercise in combination with the probiotics. I do agree and think probiotics are a step in the right direction for her. Thanks for the suggestion and I am happy that the probitioics work really well for you!

Yes, there's a connection between anxiety, depression and gut (like a scientific one).

I could probably write a very long post about my experience but that would be off topic. But in summary I have digestive problems and when my digestive system is worse, so is nervousness and I also tend to feel bummed out for no reason. Things I previously didn't care about suddenly starts to make me sad.
I'm probably a bit more susceptible to what I eat than the normal person, I also notice a decline in mental clarity and concentration when my gut is feeling worse.

By the way, has she been checked for physical illnesses? There are physical illnesses that causes symptoms as described. Has she been checked for neurological/ neurodevelopmental illnesses? Auto immune illnesses?

Some of the problem with modern psychiatry is they don't understand how neurology and the physical body connects to the mind. They tend to diagnose depression/ anxiety- never checking whether there's a psychical illness or problem behind it. I guess we might be lacking in technology as well at that, in a way.

No we have not checked for neurological/neurodevelopmental/immune illnesses. I'm glad you have brought this up, I'll look into it further. She has been diagnosed with SAD. It's really difficult for her to see a psychologist, she feels to anxious and doesn't like to get very personal (share intimate thoughts) with a professional. Thanks for the reply. Are there any neurological/neurodevelopmental/immune illnesses that seem significantly prevalent in my wife's case?

How is her menstruation history? Has she had her testosterone levels checked? Is she on birth control?


Seems she was in her best condition when she wasn't on medication and simply got out and spent time with the right people.

I have and I think many people have these thoughts that cause anxiety but some people cannot let go of the mental cycle that drives them into panic mode and fear. Meditation is supposed to help you let go of those thoughts. How is she handling her meditation? Any concerns on how it is working?

Does she have a counselor that can provide tools on how to deal with anxiety cycles? Anxiety isn't just about the chemical soup your brain sits in but about how your brain deals with your thoughts and interacts with that soup. The brain can change the soup(with perceptions and thoughts) just as much as the brain can be affected by the soup.

Her menstruation history seems pretty bleak. She is always 2 weeks late and on rare occasions 3 weeks. She is not on birth control and we have not had her testosterone levels checked. If I'm honest I had never thought of doing so, I shall look into it. I agree and think she has a hard time letting go of the mental cycle that drives her into panic mode. I have no idea as to how to help her change this. I've tried a million times reassuring her people don't think the way she thinks they do, then objectively explaining why, etc. It seems as if she understands it logically, but can't change it. Unfortunately she has not been meditating to much over the past 2 weeks. I've asked her to start again and I'll give you an update on how shes doing. In addition, I am going to talk to her tonight to see if she want to see another counselor in regards to anxiety cycles. Thanks so much for the input!
 

cheese

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Ah I forgot to mention. Over the past month she has been on a good refrigerated probiotic for the first time in her life. She feels her anxiety and mood is slightly better, however, this could be down to the glutin free/diary free eating plan and exercise in combination with the probiotics. I do agree and think probiotics are a step in the right direction for her. Thanks for the suggestion and I am happy that the probitioics work really well for you!

Try upping the dose. I'm sure the other health interventions are helping as well. Regarding probiotics, your wife may need a lot to make an appreciable dent.

It also sounds like her whole system is out of whack if her menstrual cycle isn't functioning properly. Check her B (close attention to B12) and vitamin D levels. Deficiency in these lead to fatigue, depression, etc. Deficiencies in general disrupt hormonal function and would interfere with menstruation.

If I have time, I'll look up the other things you mentioned. Keep researching everywhere you can, and good luck!
 

Grayman

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Try upping the dose. I'm sure the other health interventions are helping as well. Regarding probiotics, your wife may need a lot to make an appreciable dent.

I guess if she's on the toilet for 24hrs she won't be dealing with any social anxiety. ;)

It also sounds like her whole system is out of whack if her menstrual cycle isn't functioning properly. Check her B (close attention to B12) and vitamin D levels. Deficiency in these lead to fatigue, depression, etc. Deficiencies in general disrupt hormonal function and would interfere with menstruation.

I go with my wife to all her doctor visits. Menstration is a common question. Anxiety is a common reason and birth control is a common solution. But it may not be the right solution in this case who knows.
 

Brontosaurie

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Try to find out what makes her happy and do more of that.
 

ssmith3427

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Try upping the dose. I'm sure the other health interventions are helping as well. Regarding probiotics, your wife may need a lot to make an appreciable dent.

It also sounds like her whole system is out of whack if her menstrual cycle isn't functioning properly. Check her B (close attention to B12) and vitamin D levels. Deficiency in these lead to fatigue, depression, etc. Deficiencies in general disrupt hormonal function and would interfere with menstruation.

If I have time, I'll look up the other things you mentioned. Keep researching everywhere you can, and good luck!

I just checked the probiotic dose she is on and it's 20 billion per day. I will talk to her about increasing it and do a little digging myself. Thanks for the suggestion, I would not have thought of this. She takes vitamin B and D daily, she has for the last month. Yeah if you get a chance that would be awesome! Thanks again!



I guess if she's on the toilet for 24hrs she won't be dealing with any social anxiety. ;)



I go with my wife to all her doctor visits. Menstration is a common question. Anxiety is a common reason and birth control is a common solution. But it may not be the right solution in this case who knows.

:) Thanks for the input!
 

Grayman

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Noted, I try my best, actually going to play guitar hero now because she loves it :)

dude was that meant to be a winky smiley face? I suggest wine dim lights and a full body rub with no expectations except that she enjoys every minute of it and maybe some quiet music in the background oh and some rose petals.
 

Nebulous

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Hmm. I did CBT recently for anxiety, and it helped me. But I know someone else from the group had panic disorder (which seems similar to the symptoms your wife has) and even though she tried all the skills she learned, it didn't help with her anxiety.

I find that mindfulness meditation has helped me. It's a good way to calm down when you're feeling really anxious.

Try looking into the skills from CBT some more. It's worth a try /._./
 

Nibbler

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Please excuse my simplistic answer (for this admittedly months old question): Meditation should be every day and on schedule.

Someone above made the observation that her best days were college when she was merely getting into the mix and being with the right people.

Reading the OP I get the idea that if the camera were zoomed out, there can be seen a pattern of increasing flurry of "problems and fixes" in her life... a speeding locomotive of actions and reactions and then the bucket brigade is deployed.

I wonder if it's ever been tried in her life that when she has anxiety, instead of being rescued, she learns to STOP. BREATHE. MEDITATE... relax....

To me (and forgive me, we only got a very short glimpse into her reality) it seems that whenever she has an attack, her fears are confirmed by the rescue squad repelling in. But she didn't have that in college.

I had somewhat bad social anxiety as a kid (I also didn't walk into classes late for the same reasons but I'd show up 1 minute early). I still have anxiety with my neighbors who are always outside and I have practically zero privacy in my yard from them. it sends me bonkers when I open the door to go outside to enjoy the outdoors in the middle of the day and BAM! There they are again! Again and again! All day! "Don't they have fucking JOBS in the middle of the day?!" So I get it a little, but not on her scale.

I wonder if all the clutter of remedies were removed, then she goes back to square 1 with a clean plate and just look at what she can do from inside her mind (to influence chemical balance with the mind). She would have to be her own rescue squad. You and her family are not always going to be around to join the bucket brigade. As an example: Sometimes when I have too much sugar + caffeine + quick movement, my heart starts to pound. It pounds so fast that it literally causes my upper torso to move rhythmically ever so slightly. I STOP. BREATHE IN..... OUUUUT.... IIIIIIN.... OUUUUT... And after about 10-20 seconds, my heart instantly goes back to a normal rhythm. That's voluntarily controlling the so-called "involuntary" muscle that is the heart.

Meditation.

Mindfulness or Transcendental

Mindfulness is often learned individually through reading, study and practice. But transcendental (TM) should be learned at a TM center. There is a fee, but think of it as a doctor's bill (that you pay once for a lifetime skill). A lot of people have made great mental strides with TM.

But I have to admit, that in her college days she didn't have to deal with clients counting on her. She only had professors, but she was in the same boat as everyone else so it was probably easier to deal with. In that case, instead of stopping work altogether, it may be an idea that she changes the scope of her work to not include clients (what can that be? The imagination can help solve that). It maybe won't be as profitable, but it will keep her IN THE MIX and still productive.

ps. YOU should also join a group to help deal with all this. This will be especially important if she does manage to overcome a lot of her more immediate-attention needs. You'll need to know what to do with yourself (your own mental well being) for not being "on call" as a way of life.
 
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