So this is the dark side ...

[envirodude]

Hello INTPf. I'm a visitor from "some other forum". I call my p-ness my dark side because I'm probably more natural as a p than a j. But I don't get any shit done as a p, so I've adopted j-ness as a coping mechanism. Anyway, thought I should try this thing on and see if it fits. Cheers.
By the way, I'm really old (over 40) and have kids and a house and two cars and a mortgage, so yeah, trapped. I like reading Calvin & Hobbes to my 8-year old son, so that's the reason behind my avatar.
Mmm. envirodude because I'm an environmental engineer and card-carrying environmentalist. I don't lay down in front of bulldozers or anything, but I'm down with those that do. So yes, I'm aware that having two cars is not very consistent... look, what part of trapped don't you get?!

 

[snafupants]

Hello INTPf. I'm a visitor from "some other forum". I call my p-ness my dark side because I'm probably more natural as a p than a j. But I don't get any shit done as a p, so I've adopted j-ness as a coping mechanism. Anyway, thought I should try this thing on and see if it fits. Cheers.
By the way, I'm really old (over 40) and have kids and a house and two cars and a mortgage, so yeah, trapped. I like reading Calvin & Hobbes to my 8-year old son, so that's the reason behind my avatar.
Mmm. envirodude because I'm an environmental engineer and card-carrying environmentalist. I don't lay down in front of bulldozers or anything, but I'm down with those that do. So yes, I'm aware that having two cars is not very consistent... look, what part of trapped don't you get?!

My god. I'm sorry to hear that.

 

[envirodude]

S'all good sugar. I like my family and my job and all that jazz, but when you're young you're so free. I once took an entire summer off to read and watch tv and figure shit out and avoid working. That not an option anymore.

 

[snafupants]

S'all good sugar. I like my family and my job and all that jazz, but when you're young you're so free. I once took an entire summer off to read and watch tv and figure shit out and avoid working. That not an option anymore.

Reading literature, watching television, and sussing out reality seems more stimulating to me. I would rather do those things and retain some source of income, security, and autonomy. The family deal comes off as trite, expected, stressful, and unnecessary. I mean, I understand that some people fall into that trap.

 

[envirodude]

Reading literature, watching television, and sussing out reality seems more stimulating to me. I would rather do those things and retain some source of income, security, and autonomy.

You may find you value these things less as you age; I did.

The family deal comes off as trite, expected, stressful, and unnecessary. I mean, I understand that some people fall into that trap.

"trite" I guess yes, it's the oldest story there is, natch
"expected" see above
"stressful" I'm sure this depends on your personality. I test about 80% I and 20% E, so I am sometimes stressed by being surrounded by people more extroverted than I am.
"unnecessary" Oh yes, very much so. Having a family isn't for everyone. The corollary also holds.

"falling in" You don't usually fall in, at least I didn't. It happens incrementally. If you've ever listened to the lyrics to Talking Heads Once in a Lifetime, it sums up where I'm at and what I'm feeling quite nicely. "My god, what have I done?"

Spoiler

(I especially like the water flowing underground line, because I'm a hydrogeologist!)

 

[Cognisant]

So what does being an environmental engineer entail?

 

[envirodude]

wikipedia Interestingly, the first three areas in the wiki are the three I've spent most of my career in, i.e., solid waste mgt, environmenatl assessment, and water supply. I like EA work best, but my specialty is groundwater. I've been working about 20 years, roughly 50% in government, 25% in academia, and 25% in consulting. An engineer is a technician who understands math, or a scientist who hates theory. When I went to school, env eng wasn't very common, so you had to do Civil or Chemical (usually) and then either practice or do a Masters in Environmental. Nowadays, undergrad env eng is widespread - standard 4 years of undergrad + 4 years working to become a professional.

 

[snafupants]

You may find you value these things less as you age; I did.
"trite" I guess yes, it's the oldest story there is, natch
"expected" see above
"stressful" I'm sure this depends on your personality. I test about 80% I and 20% E, so I am sometimes stressed by being surrounded by people more extroverted than I am.
"unnecessary" Oh yes, very much so. Having a family isn't for everyone. The corollary also holds.

"falling in" You don't usually fall in, at least I didn't. It happens incrementally. If you've ever listened to the lyrics to Talking Heads Once in a Lifetime, it sums up where I'm at and what I'm feeling quite nicely. "My god, what have I done?"

Spoiler

(I especially like the water flowing underground line, because I'm a hydrogeologist!)

I doubt that dissatisfaction would ever permanently insinuate itself in my marrow but there's no way I can definitively disprove that conjecture minus a time machine. When reduced to simplified modalities or semantic categories, sure, almost anything has the potential to curdle, even marriage and kids. Perhaps especially those things. At any rate, I know that I will appreciate the same books and that I will continue writing until the hearse pulls up. There might be other things on the horizon but previous pinnacles will still thrill me. Buoy me. Elevate me! I really can't foresee myself becoming jaded with receiving and broadcasting philosophy, nor assimilating writers like Saul Bellow. I could clearly be misguided in this view but I doubt it. There would need to be a sea change in my desires and character and focus to impel me to doggedly pursue marriage or kids or respectability and myriad traditional idols. I might fall in love again but the marriage and bumper cans and bouncing kids and mortgage payments and corporate ladder and candled birthday cakes and crying jags might have to wait until the next life.

Spoiler

David Byrne might be a fun chap to hang with for an hour or nine.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

So what does being an environmental engineer entail?

Fluid mechanics/hydrualics modelling, hydrological modelling, designing designing water wastewater treatment plants, designing water, sewage and stormwater reticulation systems, designing waste and hazardous waste treatment methods and plants, environmental planning, environmental assessment, field work (sampling), laboratory work (measuring turbidity, coliform counts, BOD, COD, nitrates, phosphates etc.), engineering management, etc.

The name of the profession does not really give an adequate idea of what is involved. Essentially a hybrid between civil engineering and chemical engineering. A well paying field. A senior water engineer's income is around 160k per year. Essentially overseeing a team of people developing mine-site drainage models.

 

[Solitaire U.]

An enviro-nazi in crass-consumerism suburbanite clothing...cool!

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[Da Blob]

Welcome!

One could find this interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erikson's_stages_of_psychosocial_development

in particular

Care: Generativity vs. Stagnation (Middle adulthood, 25-64, or 40-64 years)
Existential Question: Can I Make My Life Count?
Generativity is the concern of guiding the next generation. Socially-valued work and disciplines are expressions of generativity. Simply having or wanting children does not in and of itself achieve generativity.
The adult stage of generativity has broad application to family, relationships, work, and society. “Generativity, then is primarily the concern in establishing and guiding the next generation...the concept is meant to include...productivity and creativity”
[13]
During middle age the primary developmental task is one of contributing to society and helping to guide future generations. When a person makes a contribution during this period, perhaps by raising a family or working toward the betterment of society, a sense of generativity- a sense of productivity and accomplishment- results. In contrast, a person who is self-centered and unable or unwilling to help society move forward develops a feeling of stagnation- a dissatisfaction with the relative lack of productivity.

As someone in my mid-fifties I have to admit to wasting much time stagnating - at least that would account for the stench...

 

[envirodude]

One could find this interesting ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erikson's_stages_of_psychosocial_development

Thank you DB, that spoke volumes.

 

[deconspire]

Hey man, thought I'd use your thread to boost my post count and welcome you at the same time.

I can vouch for enviro's legit-ness. Good dude, and witty to boot.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Ah the trap that is society's standard expectations. Sorry you got stuck in it, it's never too late to free one's mind however. We do in fact have the power to do anything we want in every single moment. If it would further my purpose in life, I'd drop everything and go to a monastery to live out the rest of my days in deep contemplation. But alas, that is no way to change the state of society. Ever read the Power of Now? Good book.

 

[envirodude]

Interesting, bizarre, in fact, but I have two Tolle books in my bedroom right now. One is TPON, which I haven't opened because it's in Spanish, and reading Spanish is PAINFUL. But I'm open to serendipity, so I'll tackle El Poder de Ahora before A New Earth. Thanks!

 

[Turniphead]

What do people find appealing about Tolle? Someone tried to get me to read the "power of now" but I found it so repetitive and circular... couldn't get through it.

In a similar vein, I prefer Alan Watts. He is much more succinct.

Hmm...
Just found this while searching this topic.

him and eckhart tolle are teaching basically the same things, but tolle puts the emphasis on being conciousness, and just being and enjoying it. Watts puts more emphasis how much fun it is to play around with form as Tolle puts it. If you realise that everything is a game, you won't get lost in form and everything becomes funny and brilliant, Watts is a lot more contagious in his lust for life in my opinion. Maybe it is nessecary for some people (maybe that would be so in my case) to understand what tolle means before you can really understand what watts means, as watts is less straightforward and more poetic.

 

[ememisya]

I call my p-ness my dark side

I'm sorry but that made me lol. Also having cars and a mortgage doesn't make you old, just well invested.

 

[Vladimir]

Calvin and Hobbes are great. Great comic strip, read it a few years ago when I was like 8 myself. Still read manga sometimes, and constantly think about rereading Calvin and Hobbes now that I'm older and have more life experience, and would, at this point, understand more of what the man was trying to say.

 

[intpz]

I'm sorry but that made me lol. Also having cars and a mortgage doesn't make you old, just well invested.

How do you know, maybe he bought an Audi 100 for $150000, a plan for 25 years with 20%/year extra? Maybe he paid $2m for his house, that is single-floor, 25m^2 with cracked walls and leaking roof? Is that a good investment? If that's good investment, shoot @ememisva.