So I pretty much hate myself right now

[Deridaburi]

You cannot fathom the amount of social ineptitude that I possess.

Does anybody know what I could do to overcome social ineptness?

The obvious answer is to put yourself out there and learn by experience. Which I have, very much so, however I cannot see any progress. I suspect that there is something fundamental that I am completely missing, something I cannot see, do, or be no matter how hard I try. Please enlighten me.

Just realized this is probably not the greatest place to ask this question. Although I suspect that there could be people on this forum that are more mature than me and could help me and other people with this problem in some way.

Also when you realize that something you said or did could be interpreted badly, what is a good way to solve it?

 

[echoplex]

Are you usually around people who have interesting (to you) things to say? or are you usually trying to fit in with people who don't 'get' you (or vise versa)? Just an idea, but I'd guess that the former would be more energizing and help ease the learning curve, because it wouldn't feel so much like work. With the latter, you may find yourself in situations where silence is the only reasonable response, which doesn't help much in this case.

 

[ApostateAbe]

You are certainly not alone in your situation. If you have read the INTP profile, you know there are plenty of us. Don't hate yourself. You can love the way you are, even be proud of it, because there isn't anything wrong with it. Just focus on your natural talents. You have something that a lot of other people do not have and they wish they did. You have remarkable intelligence and a love for things intelligent.

"Also when you realize that something you said or did could be interpreted badly, what is a good way to solve it?"

You say, "Hey, I just realized that what I said to you before could be misinterpreted, and I don't want there to be any hard feelings or anything, so, just to make sure, what I meant to say is..."

The challenge is to realize that you may have said something that could be easily misinterpreted.

 

[EvilScientist Trainee]

Just to reiterate: Welcome to the socially awkward group.

I felt just like you did, until I learned two things: First, I had to admit that there is no manual to be a sociable person. Every person is different and following steps to ensure that I could mantain a conversation just made me feel weird and overly critical with myself.

Secondly, I had to lower my expectations to what I expected to be a 'social me' and how would people accept me. I am no 'life of the party', and I'm completely satisfied with this right now; It was a complete illusion to believe that someday I would turn everyone around me as a magnetic person.

From this, I started to notice some very little hints of enjoyment from people. When you just try to live along with people, if you're not trying to force anything or you're not a bad person, it is likely that eventually someone will show their appreciation for you as a group member.

My tip would be: There's no protocol to socialization. It's somewhat arbitrary and plays through weird rules. Therefore, follow your intuition and just be the cool Ne-auxiliary person that you can be. It has worked for me so far.

 

[Black Rose]

You cannot fathom the amount of social ineptitude that I possess.

How dare you question the validity of my INFP powers.

Does anybody know what I could do to overcome social ineptness?

Yes, Yes I do.

The obvious answer is to put yourself out there and learn by experience. Which I have, very much so, however I cannot see any progress. I suspect that there is something fundamental that I am completely missing, something I cannot see, do, or be no matter how hard I try. Please enlighten me.

How do you contemplate others role in society? I read that Fe in INTP's wants social/group harmony more than a personal connection. Do you every get "bad vibes" from individualists because you think like/as a utilitarian?

Just realized this is probably not the greatest place to ask this question. Although I suspect that there could be people on this forum that are more mature than me and could help me and other people with this problem in some way.

Maturity is an illusion what matters is a serious sense of humor. - old zen proverb

(actually its not but who cares it has profound meaning anyway)

Also when you realize that something you said or did could be interpreted badly, what is a good way to solve it?

When I was 19 I was having neurotic depressive episodes about early childhood problems. Its because I realized that the therapists I saw weren't qualified to handle the problems my mom set me there for starting at 8 years old.

I thought I was dumb because I was unable to translate my social understandings into a binary way of thinking about life that other appreciated so much.

My aunt thought Homer Simpson would brainwash me into being retarded, where as I empathized more with Lisa than anyone else on the show.

 

[Words]

I agree with echoplex. Socialization shouldn't require work in the first place.

Though I'd imagine the reality is that there are necessities and situations wherein it seems that things are mandatory and you really have to do something about it. But they only "seem" to be this way. This may sound perhaps reckless but one way of reducing the conflict in yourself is by simply "throwing away" one value, particularly the one involving "I want to be socially capable.". With the acknowledgment of the vast mechanisms of the universe, your problem becomes a speck. In fact, if you accept detachment, there truly is "nothing" in there. But, we're humans, we live with our instincts and our emotions, right? But do we have to? I don't think so. Humans grow and "evolve" anyways. If one stupid instinct is blocking your way, erase it.

I guess, in summary, my answer is "don't care about it." How to do this is another issue.

 

[shoeless]

here, i've found, are the biggest kickers when it comes to being "socially inept":
1) low self-esteem
2) misanthropy

you have to be able to like and respect yourself first before you will have the confidence to show others why they should like and respect you (which is essentially what socialization is). if you're super nervous about saying the right thing, you'll filter out all the right things to say in your brain before you can get it out, because you're overthinking it. now, i know it isn't easy to just magically acquire self-esteem, and trust me, i've been in the position where i think everyone hates me and it fueled my social anxiety. the best thing you can do is seriously relax your mind, try to realize that, it's not that big a deal, nobody cares that much, and then just let go.

also, if you hate people (another problem i've faced personally) you'll find that it's much harder to talk to them. my hatred for people always stemmed from my hatred for myself, so you're better off solving that problem first, but either way, people really aren't bad or scary. everyone is just trying to get by on their own, and there's nothing wrong with that. of course there will be people you don't like and people you don't quite click with, and that's fine. just keep looking until you find somebody you do. the worst thing you can do is assume that somebody is "bad" (by whatever criteria you choose) before you actually try to get to know them. you'll miss out on a lot of surprising friendships that way.

so yeah. my two cents. whether this applies to you or not is a different matter; i'm speaking from my own experience as a socially awkward extravert.

 

[Deridaburi]

Are you usually around people who have interesting (to you) things to say? or are you usually trying to fit in with people who don't 'get' you (or vise versa)?

Very much the latter, I’m usually around people who barely understand me. It seems that the only person that does understand me is my sister. And even then it seems that I understand her more than she understands me. How do you help people to understand you?

You are certainly not alone in your situation. If you have read the INTP profile, you know there are plenty of us. Don't hate yourself. You can love the way you are, even be proud of it, because there isn't anything wrong with it. Just focus on your natural talents. You have something that a lot of other people do not have and they wish they did. You have remarkable intelligence and a love for things intelligent.

Yes I have. Thank you that is something that I have rarely heard. Now I need to make myself believe it.

You say, "Hey, I just realized that what I said to you before could be misinterpreted, and I don't want there to be any hard feelings or anything, so, just to make sure, what I meant to say is..."

The challenge is to realize that you may have said something that could be easily misinterpreted.

Right, another problem that I have encountered is that when you realize it, attempting to explain yourself too much can be interpreted badly. It seems like a circle. It also seems to require a balance.

First, I had to admit that there is no manual to be a sociable person. Every person is different and following steps to ensure that I could maintain a conversation just made me feel weird and overly critical with myself.

Right, I'm not sure how to act that out however. When I am around people that I suspect do not understand me, or have shown that they might not, I tend to continuously second guess myself. That coupled with low self esteem leads to less than good situations.

Secondly, I had to lower my expectations to what I expected to be a 'social me' and how would people accept me. I am no 'life of the party', and I'm completely satisfied with this right now; It was a complete illusion to believe that someday I would turn everyone around me as a magnetic person.

How do people accept you? What do they accept you as? Also thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense.

How do you contemplate others role in society?

I’m not sure I understand your question.

I read that Fe in INTP's wants social/group harmony more than a personal connection.

I’m not sure which I value more, that seems to be true with me. While I do usually feel the need to maintain harmony by fixing the problems people create for themselves in my social circle, that need is usually quelled by human brutality and shortsightedness or the (assumptive) prediction of it.

Do you every get "bad vibes" from individualists because you think like/as a utilitarian?

No I don’t think so, actually to the contrary I think that I resonate more with individualism than utilitarianism.

I thought I was dumb because I was unable to translate my social understandings into a binary way of thinking about life that others appreciated so much.

I definitely relate to this.

I guess, in summary, my answer is "don't care about it." How to do this is another issue.

I haven't thought about it that way before, it seems as though instinct that says “I want to be capable” is the very instinct that is keeping me from being capable. It's interesting that I have given the same advice to a few people, yet I still seem to be failing to follow it. Agreed, not caring is definitely hard to do.

here, i've found, are the biggest kickers when it comes to being "socially inept":
1) low self-esteem
2) misanthropy

you have to be able to like and respect yourself first before you will have the confidence to show others why they should like and respect you (which is essentially what socialization is). if you're super nervous about saying the right thing, you'll filter out all the right things to say in your brain before you can get it out, because you're overthinking it. now, i know it isn't easy to just magically acquire self-esteem, and trust me, i've been in the position where i think everyone hates me and it fueled my social anxiety. the best thing you can do is seriously relax your mind, try to realize that, it's not that big a deal, nobody cares that much, and then just let go.

also, if you hate people (another problem i've faced personally) you'll find that it's much harder to talk to them. my hatred for people always stemmed from my hatred for myself, so you're better off solving that problem first, but either way, people really aren't bad or scary. everyone is just trying to get by on their own, and there's nothing wrong with that. of course there will be people you don't like and people you don't quite click with, and that's fine. just keep looking until you find somebody you do. the worst thing you can do is assume that somebody is "bad" (by whatever criteria you choose) before you actually try to get to know them. you'll miss out on a lot of surprising friendships that way.

Thank you shoeless, the first applies to me a lot. What are ways to accumulate self esteem once I've relaxed, realize that it's not a big deal, and let it go? I think that I am breaking down my self esteem along with my ego because of some false idea that an ego is a bad thing. And I think that this idea is because of not wanting to be subjective and also not being able to see past my own nose because of my ego. I'm also not sure if that made any sense.

 

[JarNew]

Be yourself, appear confident

and read this

http://www.changingminds.org/techniques/conversation/conversation.htm

 

[The Gopher]

Very much the latter, I’m usually around people who barely understand me. It seems that the only person that does understand me is my sister. And even then it seems that I understand her more than she understands me. How do you help people to understand you?

Oh yeah my sister is one of the only people that can understand me completely. However have you tried loud music there was something (not sure if it turned into anything) about music bringing out the intuition extroverted in people I know it works for me I just stop thinking might help.

 

[Black Rose]

Very much the latter, I’m usually around people who barely understand me. It seems that the only person that does understand me is my sister. And even then it seems that I understand her more than she understands me. How do you help people to understand you?

My sister is the one who knows me the best also. I was having a bad day on Friday and told my mom how I was feeling isolated. I told here that I was lonely because she was my only best friend. She is the person that hangs out with me the most and listens without judging me. But that she does not know how complex I am. She told my sister what I sad and she was nicer than usual. Sometimes my sister gets annoyed and yells at people/stupid ideas but less so than my brother does at me.

In comparison to understanding your family, what is it thats difficult for them to understand about you? It is my wanting to share myself/ideas without being perceived as a bad person, I have found the more people trust me the more they believe what I have to say is honest.

I’m not sure I understand your question.

I think you answered it in the quotes below.

I’m not sure which I value more, that seems to be true with me. While I do usually feel the need to maintain harmony by fixing the problems people create for themselves in my social circle, that need is usually quelled by human brutality and shortsightedness or the (assumptive) prediction of it.

No I don’t think so, actually to the contrary I think that I resonate more with individualism than utilitarianism.

I definitely relate to this.

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Thank you shoeless, the first applies to me a lot. What are ways to accumulate self esteem once I've relaxed, realize that it's not a big deal, and let it go? I think that I am breaking down my self esteem along with my ego because of some false idea that an ego is a bad thing. And I think that this idea is because of not wanting to be subjective and also not being able to see past my own nose because of my ego. I'm also not sure if that made any sense.

An ego is more about fear/the reptile brain as I understand the definition. You seem to be talking about the complexity of self-hood. Looking past yourself only makes you more complex but fear drives it away. The real person you are is defined by the way you see the world. To gain confidence I found others to trust my mental vision as clear. I am reliable because I ask non-threating questions about the relationships I have with them about why they think about me, as who they think I am. Then politely ask how this is true or false and if they mind if I tell them the good but different quality's I think we share.

 

[Melkor]

I'll give you a clue...

The key is not to become more adept at social interaction, but to become more adept at evading reality and all the little fickle nuances that humanity constructs.

 

[gruesomebrat]

Very much the latter, I’m usually around people who barely understand me. It seems that the only person that does understand me is my sister. And even then it seems that I understand her more than she understands me. How do you help people to understand you?

I know a number of people have already quoted this statement in their reply, but I'm the same way, minus my sister understanding me. I definitely share the sentiment that I understand most people more than they understand me, though. I seem to know more about most of my friends, and their families, than I know about my own family. This comes from being the counselor-of-choice for the vast majority of my friends.

You asked how to help people to understand you; I ask "Why do you want to?" Speaking as someone who is understood by only one person in my circles of influence, I don't see the point in helping people understand your thought processes. Now, if all you're looking for is to help people understand what you're saying, it's not that difficult. Speak simply, and adapt your speech to your environment. This actually comes relatively naturally to most people that I've seen. Think about it, the next time you walk into a friend's place of employment. Do they act the same as they do when you're chilling with them outside of work? Most cases, they don't. As a product of their environment, they are better-mannered at work than when chilling. You can put the same practice to work when you're hanging out.
Adapt your speech and mannerisms to the situation at hand, and see if that doesn't help people to understand you. I suppose your other option would be to find people who are the same as you (unable to make themselves understood to the general populace) and start hanging out with them... that might work just as well.

 

[CoryJames]

I think the most important thing that I have done to cover my own social insecurities is to just chill the hell out and get a good sense of humour. If you are relaxed, confident and laugh a lot, people will naturally be drawn to you and respect you, which in turn will boost your confidence etc etc etc. It is an UPWARD spiral for once.

You need to realize that social interactions do not occur in a "right-wrong" fashion. If you enter a social situation thinking about whether you are "doing it right", people are going to notice that something is a bit weird and off about your behaviour. If you just go into it relaxed, confident about whatever you are doing, and you seem at ease with yourself, people are going to respect and envy you, because deep down, almost everybody is insecure about themselves and look up to people who seem confident and happy.


Just be yourself and be happy about it. Then other people will want to be you too.

 

[EditorOne]

"Also when you realize that something you said or did could be interpreted badly, what is a good way to solve it?"

You just say "Wait a minute, I'm not sure that came out right" and rephrase or redo.

Social awkwardness and INTP seem to go hand in hand. Shoeless mentioned low self esteem and lack of confidence. Here, conceptually at least, is a way to set those two things aside so you can at least function:

Get your introverted head out of your butt and become aware of others.

Wait, that didn't come out right....

The way to get past yourself is to ask others about themselves. Then -- and in the nicest, most socially helpful way -- it's not about you any more. Ask them questions. Instead of "How you doin'?" make it "what's the best thing in your day so far?" It's specific, but can have a lot of responses. Ask them what's the next big thing, good thing, bad thing coming up for them. Ask them anything. Deflect all questions about yourself with something like " I dunno, I'm hoping somebody else will give me some insight on that."

Just don't ask "Why?" too many times. "Why?" is an INTP question. It can annoy others sometimes, I have noticed.

MOST people, unlike INTPs, enjoy talking about themselves. Even others who start their personality with an I enjoy talking about themselves more than INTPs do. So, literally, consider yourself a companionable information extraction machine, just keep inviting them to open doors about themselves. Oh, and every now and then ask "How did you FEEL about that?" Apparently it's important.

Eventually, when you see what most people find to talk about, you can at least LOOK and ACT comfortable even if your brain is little seething wriggling toads. There are people who don't believe me when I mention my introverted nature; I can pass pretty well. On the other hand, just so you don't get the idea this is easy, I'm 61, so I've been practicing for a long time.

The other thing is you get more socially apt with people you've known for a long time. What I notice about many younger folks today is they don't have situations that naturally lend themselves to long-term relationships of even an artificial nature, so it's kind of rough. I went through 13 years of school with the same 35 kids I started out with in kindergarten, and realized proximity over time creates social comfort even if I never liked the times I was in a spotlight of some sort.

Just be patient with yourself. When it comes to socialization, it's like you've parachuted into a foreign land and don't speak the language. You'll pick it up over time. Meanwhile, you're going to occasionally do the social equivalent of saying "Your mother sleeps with her brother" when you thought you were saying "Your mother resembles her brother." Just remember the magic phrase: "Wait, that didn't come out right" when you see the puzzled, angry or hurt looks coming on around you.

 

[Trebuchet]

When I was little, I wished I was in Masterpiece Theatre, with all the historical characters, because they all knew exactly how to behave and what to say, and were good at witty repartee. Why couldn't I do that? It sounds stupid, but I was genuinely surprised when I figured out that the TV characters' advantage was a scriptwriter.

Evil Scientist Trainee is right. There isn't a manual, and there isn't a single correct way to act. In my experience, when an INTP sees someone acting with confidence, they assume competence as well. That was another shocker: the rest of the world is faking it, too. Some of them just enjoy it more and fake it better.

Others probably see you in a much better light than you see yourself. I found some people from my high school class on Facebook. I thought they didn't know I existed, or disliked me, but they remember me as smart and kind. That was the last thing I expected.

I understand the panicky feeling of walking through a minefield when interacting with others. What took me years to learn was that there aren't any mines, just a few potholes to trip on. There isn't anywhere near as much danger as it seems.

I'll echo Abe: there isn't anything wrong with you. You don't have to change to please others. You are who you are. You'd be an outlier if you were over 7 feet tall, too, and there wouldn't be anything wrong with that either. Trust yourself, be yourself, and relax. Oh, I am such a hypocrite! I talk as if I have managed to do these things. But I'm 42, and I've gotten a little better at them each year, and it really does help.

 

[Ermine]

I definitely agree with the other posters in that it's really a matter of changing your expectations. I guess I could use myself as an example. Ever since I started going to college, I've progressed by leaps and bounds, socially. I didn't change much at all. What did change was that I got to know myself better, was more comfortable with what I found, and as a result, was more comfortable talking to people. Now, even if I make a social faux pas, there's little to worry about just so long as people know what to expect from me, and I say sorry and move on.

Really, I think this is the story with everyone. I've noticed that even the most socially adept people I know can be socially retarded at times. It's all a matter of self confidence and defining your personality for others.