sleep and consciousness

[flow]

I have to admit that I'm a n00b on here, but I've been reading through many a thread and feel quite at home with my INTP brothers and sisters on this site. I'm just wondering some basic questions about sleep and consciousness, and I'd love to hear as many INTP's thoughts on the matter. First off, how much sleep do you strive for in a given night? And who all here analyzes their dreams upon awakening? I try to understand each dream I have, and depending on the complexity of the dream, I may spend the rest of the day thinking about it, or the rest of the week. When I'm awake I often feel hyperconscious or something, just seemingly more aware of what's going on then others around me. That's probably why I enjoy sleeping so much, my mind can operate without "me" at the wheel...if that makes sense.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i always have a difficult time falling asleep. a big factor in that is probably because i drink a lot, so when i don't drink i can't fall asleep. the other reason is because i have a very persistent inner monologue and i tend to overthink a lot, which prevents me from falling asleep. i often remember the gist and the emotion of a dream and maybe like one small part will stick out huge in my mind, but i rarely remember an entire dream that i've had. i get deja vu a lot though.

 

[Ermine]

I have a hard time sleeping because my mind's hyperactive, especially at night, the idea of being unconscious while asleep is unnerving, and while my body demands rest, the rest of me has better things to do.

And I don't dream much, so there's not much excitement in sleeping.

 

[fullerene]

I'm pretty sure that I hate sleep... although the reason changes as I grow. When I was young I used to have horrible dreams, constantly... never anything uplifting or even enjoyable. I actually got in trouble once in 1st grade because we had an assignment of drawing a picture and briefly describing one of our dreams, and the only one I could think of was being chased by people and firing a rocket launcher back at them... I think the teacher thought I was disturbed. Then I had a period of a decade or so without any memory of my dreams at all--which was a welcome relief.

Now it's generally either none (most of the time) or thoroughly enjoyable ones (occasionally)... very few "bad" ones. The reason I say I hate sleep is because my sleep schedule pushes later and later each night as soon as there's nothing to do for a few weeks... I start staying up til 1, then 3, then 5, 6, even as late as 12 or 1 the next day, before falling asleep. I think I just don't like the time wasted trying to fall asleep when you're not tired, so I wait until as late as I possibly can. On the other hand... when I'm actually tired and know I'll fall asleep immediately, I love my naps.

and yes... I analyze the dreams if I can, if it looks like there's anything there. Sometimes I wake up and just think "well that was amusing nonsense..." and that's the end of it... but I've had other dreams that tell me amazing things about the inner-workings of my subconscious mind. Generally though, I don't have enough dreams (or ones that I can't figure out what they mean quickly) to make it a serious pursuit.

 

[grrreg]

I have to admit that I'm a n00b on here, but I've been reading through many a thread and feel quite at home with my INTP brothers and sisters on this site. I'm just wondering some basic questions about sleep and consciousness, and I'd love to hear as many INTP's thoughts on the matter. First off, how much sleep do you strive for in a given night? And who all here analyzes their dreams upon awakening? I try to understand each dream I have, and depending on the complexity of the dream, I may spend the rest of the day thinking about it, or the rest of the week. When I'm awake I often feel hyperconscious or something, just seemingly more aware of what's going on then others around me. That's probably why I enjoy sleeping so much, my mind can operate without "me" at the wheel...if that makes sense.

it totally makes sense. my imagination is LARGE. Which is great sometimes and horrible depending on where it's going. I take sleep medication most days which enhance dreams like I cannot describe. I was an insomniac for a year and I felt my mental powers completely bending in weird ways, scary sometimes and then strangely peaceful and objective.

my whole family kinda suffers from dread complex, and none of us sleep well without taking something...although i am far better now than i was, and i appreciate those unconcious hours more because of it. If I took time to think about all my dreams (which my friends actually look forward listening to) I would be doing nothing but all day. I enjoy the magic power ones, or the ones that look like you're in some kind of painting the best.

 

[Apathy]

Dreaming is one thing that doesnt seem to come naturally to me. When I wake up in the morning it is quite rare for me to know that I had been dreaming, maybe once or twice a month, and rarer still to remember my dream. On those rare occations that I can remember my dreams, I try to sort through them to discover what actually took place. Maybe I analyse them a little to find if they have any baring on my life, but usually I can never find any connections, and all too soon the memory of them becomes hazy.

Coincedentally I am a very deep sleeper, and am usually woken up in the morning. This probably means I am not in a state of REM sleep in the morning, and I think it is the morning REM sleep that usually contains the dreams you remember.

 

[Dissident]

Has anyone experienced this?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

 

[Olba]

I have a hard time sleeping because my mind's hyperactive, especially at night

Same here. Whenever I'm lie down on the bed at night, I usually start thinking about stuff like mathematics or my future or the next day. And in the end, I usually realize that I've been thinking about those really pointless things for several hours.

Sometimes I end up thinking of something that happened in my life and get a bit startled. Usually this is the moment that I give up on even trying to sleep and just start listening to some music.

I actually got in trouble once in 1st grade because we had an assignment of drawing a picture and briefly describing one of our dreams, and the only one I could think of was being chased by people and firing a rocket launcher back at them.

This made me laugh. Or rather, the mental image of a 7-year-old carrying a rocket launcher, firing it at some people, being thrown all over the place by the recoil and the reactions of the chasers.

 

[Fleur]

Has anyone experienced this?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

*raises hand* Me, and quite often.

 

[fullerene]

a few times, usually in recurring dreams. Be hunted by the same two people in a city atmosphere a dozen times or so and it's difficult not to realize it's the same thing over and over again. It used to scare the daylights(?) out of me, until it became so common I realized it was a dream and started flying around instead. Then it actually became pretty fun. Generally I don't realize when I'm dreaming though.

 

[freespirit]

Has anyone experienced this?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

Yes, not on a regular basis, but I can easily recall instances of that happening. I also have great difficulty falling asleep, or getting back to sleep once I wake up (for whatever reason-need to potty, loud noise, etc.), as my mind loves to kick into high gear at any possible moment...this morning is a great example. I also remember a lot of my dreams, and sometimes will analyze them, but some don't seem worth the analysis...

 

[loveofreason]

Welcome to INTP forum freespirit.

Somewhere around here there is another thread on dreams, a very interesting one at that.

To the OP: I've suffered years of sleep deprivation now, since becoming a parent, and also have lost the luxury of being able to enjoy and dwell on my dreams, though it once was very important to me.

I know my personal well-being and resilience have plummeted since then. Restful sleep and dream-awareness are two missing foundations to a life worth living. I think to lose touch with dreams puts someone at a kind of psychological disadvantage - as though dreams are our eyes and to lose contact with them is to become blind.

 

[Wisp]

I too have large problems with falling asleep. MY sleep schedule is all over the map. I suffer during school, when I get up at 5:30 every morning... blech.

 

[Saturnine]

I like this topic haha. I struggle with sleep because I find it almost impossible to switch my mind off. The only way I can fall asleep is if a)I've gone about 3 days without it and I just pass out, or b)I take a sedative. Honestly though, I avoid sleeping because I'm plagued with nightmares, and often get sleep paralysis/hallucinations. I don't like being lucid, it scares the shite out of me.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Lucid dreaming, this should probably become a separate topic of its own.

I often have lucid dreams but I mostly enjoy them, there is nothing like having control over the nature of reality, no matter how fleeting. On the other hand I've had lucid dreams where I've been unable to control anything, I know I'm dreaming but somehow I can't wake up. That is my worst nightmare, being trapped in my own mental prison.

 

[Kuu]

Hmm evil sleep schedules...

What bugs me most is the lack of dreams. When I was younger I used to have lots of weird dreams, even lucid dreams. But its been several years that dreams are few and far between (5 a year?). Sometimes I think that growing up cynical has left me hollow.

In contrast, i have an ENFJ friend who has lucid dreams practically every night. Whenever he sasy "I dreamt the most freaky thing last night" we all just roll our eyes....

Anybody knows how to effectively induce lucid dreaming?

 

[Wisp]

I have a friend [ISTP] who has the strangest dreams... AND HE TELLS THEM ALL TO ME! I'm scarred.

 

[Jesin]

I think there's a Wikibook on lucid dreaming with a big how-to section.

And Wisp, why are you scared?

(Hmm, looks like Wisp and I are both having trouble sleeping. We're posting on this forum after midnight. (Wisp, don't pretend we aren't in the same time zone.))

 

[fullerene]

After midnight? haha I went to bed at 5 this morning... that's right, 5.

I'm on your track I think, Tekton. I was plagued with nightmares when I was younger, then just stopped remembering them almost entirely. I also found out I talk about them a lot in my sleep, because my roommate would tell me what I was dreaming about the next day. Thank God it was never anything too embarrassing...

I was/am a little concerned with my lack of dreams too... but at least this way they're not bad ones.

 

[Raison D'etre]

Is that all? Have you tried not sleeping at all for around two days?

Anyways, when I can't fall asleep, I start hallucinating. I see things in the shadows and hear noises. My mom even suggested I go to some sort of shaman or something just last week. This is probably just a result of my hyperactive mind though.

When I was sick, I used to have a really stupid nightmare. It was the same nightmare each time I fell ill. I don't even know why I was so scared. It was about vegetables growing larger and not being able to fit in the fridge. Retarded, right?

 

[Wisp]

@Jesin

Well duh we're in the same time zone. We could probably drive to each other's location in about half an hour.

I said scarred not scared. His dreams are... for lack of a better word, interesting.

 

[fullerene]

Is that all? Have you tried not sleeping at all for around two days?

Never all at once... I think the most I've ever done on that was one night, so around 38 hours or so. I have, however, had a few times where I sleep like 15 hours spread over 4 nights, when we had to finish building a set for an upcoming school play. We were working with power tools and climbing around on a scaffolding and stuff too, by the nature of the work. Not recommended.

 

[Jesin]

@Wisp: Oops. I guess my mental spellcheck mist.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Bugger more black text, feel free to delete that post if you can

On topic: lack of sleep is great fun, I start seeing things, things that should never be seen

 

[Wisp]

Once I stayed up all night to beat Sonic Adventure DX, and I was forced to go to church the next day, and I , uh, hallucinated, and lost my grip on reality.

 

[Jordan~]

I dislike having to sleep, but when I start I find it hard to stop... at least, I sleep for a long time unless I'm woken up. Dreaming makes it worthwhile, when it happens and it isn't stupid.

 

[Jesin]

Yup, that's me. Can't get to sleep at night, can't wake up in the morning.

I wonder if that's an INTP thing, or a people-who-post-on-forums thing, or some of both.

 

[grrreg]

Yup, that's me. Can't get to sleep at night, can't wake up in the morning.

I wonder if that's an INTP thing, or a people-who-post-on-forums thing, or some of both.

HAHA...I'll vote both

 

[fullerene]

probably both... I was always like this though, and I wasn't really a forum poster except for... well... since whenever I joined this forum. Of course, that doesn't mean there's a type correlation either though

 

[Titania]

i have a very persistent inner monologue and i tend to overthink a lot, which prevents me from falling asleep.

The same problem here. I just can't switch my mind off and fall into that unconscious state of sleep. Especially if I've been reading some forums. Last night I had to go for a walk to clear my mind, but I've created other ways too to slow down my thinking. Usually I try mind games like that I close my eyes and think that if I open them, I'll become blind. Not very relaxing, but it helps to direct thoughts somewhere else. In other version I imagine that I'm abducted by some soldiers and I have to pretend I'm sleeping, 'cause if they notice that I'm awake, they will kill me. ( this sounds more creepy than it is... ) Sometimes I also like to imagine that my bed is my own, little cozy spot in the middle of very dangerous enviroment, like a tent in a blizzard or something like that. When I'm thinking that my enviroment is more dangerous than it really is (my home isn't very extreme place), my bed also feels much more cozier, softer, and warmer, therefore it's easier to relax and fall asleep. It's difficult to explain but you've got my point. If any of these tricks doesn't help, I just think about small "stories", or scenes from them, that are so childish and naive that I would never publish them anywhere, but wich are very entertaining to me. Like watching private movies . Eventually I'll be so tired of thinking all this nonsense that I'll fall asleep. Without any drugs! : D

I would like to analyze my dreams if remembered more of them. I usually wake up too fast and sometimes I don't even want to remember my dreams if they have been too disturbing. I don't usually see nightmares where I would be in mortal danger or chased by someone or something, but there's almost every time very creepy, disturbing atmosphere in my dreams :/ ...

I'm not sure have I seen any real lucid dreams, but couple of times I've noticed that I'm dreaming and I've been able to control the plot, and I really enjoyed it .

 

[Wisp]

@Jesin.

Could be a combination of INTP and teenager.


Also, nice to see you back Titania. I kind of wish I had dreams, but I don't, anymore, not that I'd remember them. On occasion I will have a real dream, but it always slips away from me. I need a notebook by my bed so as to facilitate writing them down.

 

[Agent Intellect]

The same problem here. I just can't switch my mind off and fall into that unconscious state of sleep. Especially if I've been reading some forums. Last night I had to go for a walk to clear my mind, but I've created other ways too to slow down my thinking. Usually I try mind games like that I close my eyes and think that if I open them, I'll become blind. Not very relaxing, but it helps to direct thoughts somewhere else. In other version I imagine that I'm abducted by some soldiers and I have to pretend I'm sleeping, 'cause if they notice that I'm awake, they will kill me. ( this sounds more creepy than it is... ) Sometimes I also like to imagine that my bed is my own, little cozy spot in the middle of very dangerous enviroment, like a tent in a blizzard or something like that. When I'm thinking that my enviroment is more dangerous than it really is (my home isn't very extreme place), my bed also feels much more cozier, softer, and warmer, therefore it's easier to relax and fall asleep. It's difficult to explain but you've got my point. If any of these tricks doesn't help, I just think about small "stories", or scenes from them, that are so childish and naive that I would never publish them anywhere, but wich are very entertaining to me. Like watching private movies . Eventually I'll be so tired of thinking all this nonsense that I'll fall asleep. Without any drugs! : D

i do the same kind of stuff, more or less. not the same stories (although i have done the "pretending my bed is outside in a blizzard" thing when i was younger) but i come up with little daydreams to try to put me to sleep. thats interesting, because i always thought it was just weird of me, a 23 year old playing pretend in my own head to help me sleep lol.

as far as dream analysis goes, i've never really thought that dreams meant as much as people do. theres definite subtext to it, but i don't believe a lot of the psychological dream interpretations. to me, its not just nighttime dreams either, but daydreams too. me and my girlfriend talked about it before, and in my dreams (day and night) i'm often some sort of aggressor, or someone to be feared/respected. when i was a kid, i daydreamed of being the villian more often then the hero. whereas in her dreams (day and night) she often finds herself being a victim and needing rescuing or sympathy.

 

[Jesin]

@Jesin.

Could be a combination of INTP and teenager.

Duh! I can't believe I forgot about that. Yup, that's it.

 

[Titania]

Thanks, Wisp ( how can six words make a person so happy ). I've been reading this forum actively but I don't want to pollute this great place too much with my babblings .

@ Agent Intellect: nice to see that I'm not the only one who does that kind of stuff to get sleep (or maybe I just haven't met any INTP people...)
I wouldn't trust much on the dream based psychological analysis either. Dreams can be interpreted in so many ways and I think that the dream-me is more what I would like to be than what I really am. Maybe the point of view, the dreamers position in the dream could reveal something about the personality (like I usually feel in my dreams that I'm more an observant, not right in the middle of action doing something. ) and maybe dreams tell more about the problems and inner conflicts we have... I don't know, I'm not a psychologist and I lost my thought...

 

[Jordan~]

I generally don't look for meaning in dreams. What could it help with? If I don't wake up knowing what a dream meant, I don't bother trying to work it out. Most of my dreams are like movies, anyway. Some have soundtracks, and usually they have camera angles, etc.

 

[fullerene]

They tell you a lot about yourself. It's been my experience (in myself and talking to friends) that people who feel like they're being judged are often chased or hunted, for instance. If you find yourself naked in public it's because you're conscious of other people watching you (less extreme than the hunting). If no one notices, you've become comfortable with who you are and how you act.

stuff like that... not standard dream interpretation I don't think... but extremely valuable if you want to examine yourself and grow as a person.

 

[strangeguy]

for me
iam always sleepy
it's suprising
as i think better while i am in an half sleep mode
and all those think really drain lots of energy rom my brains

 

[Vrecknidj]

I have had all kinds of amazing and bizarre dreams. I've had quite a few recurring theme or recurring setting dreams. I've had a number of end-of-the-world dreams.

I've often had super powers (amazing vision, intuition, or flight). I've sometimes had dreams that take me into the past, future, or a parallel universe (one of which was a very frustrating dream as I was certain I'd actually been moved to another universe). I have had maybe 3 somewhat lucid dreams, but they end too quickly once I realize what's going on.

I have had three dreams where Jesus was a primary character. In one, he took the form of a lion, but, it was him. When in human form, he's always shorter and more middle-eastern looking than western media would have us believe. I don't know what to make of that, but, there it is.

I don't remember my dreams all that often, but, I do have some amazingly vivid ones every once in a while.

Sometimes I have very compelling and informative dreams, where I wake up with solutions to personal problems. Usually though, they're just weird.

The most common recurring dream is of the theme of crashing planes. I've had probably 100 of those dreams. I have no fear of flying.

I have not had any prophetic dreams.

I have a LOT of dreams that are strongly emotional. In effect, I can live through experiences that I don't actually have. I can find out what it feels like to do X or Y, and I find that rather valuable.

All that said, I really like sleep and wish I could get more of it. I usually sleep about 6.5 hours each night and end up spending much of each day rather tired. I'd like to get more sleep, but I routinely wake up just before my alarm. I don't have trouble falling asleep.

Once upon a time, I used to be a night-time worrier. I had this tendency to dwell on problems that, honestly, weren't problems that I could solve. Mostly these were emotional issues, or issues dealing with things over which I had no control. A long time ago, I learned that I could trick myself into bypassing all that. I do crosswords, or sudoku (for a while I even solved calculus problems), or some other kind of "problem" for a while before bed, and I trick my mind into having the pleasant sensation of having solved some problems. With that, I find it easy to sleep.

Dave

 

[Varg]

This is my first forum post beside the "about you" one. I wanted to comment because I was curious about the relation of dreams and our personality type. I myself (and it seems many of you on here are as well) have a very hard time getting to sleep, I am a night owl (basically I can't be productive until darkness falls), but I also love my dreams.

Its a part of my creative process, most of my writing comes directly from my dreams like someone has just laid out the perfect picture and inspired me with it.

I have lucid dreams on occasion, along with the end of the world dreams much more frequently, long epic nightmares of dreams but I am not shook up by what any "normal" person would consider a nightmare I am rather amazed by my unconscious mind's ability to be so creative.

One question: Have any of you ever had a dream where you were someone else? I have never met a person who could tell me they have and I was wondering if perhaps this may have something to do with our personality type?

 

[Wisp]

Done that. It was... well... interesting.

I can't remember specific instances though... I tend to not be able my dreams well.

 

[Agent Intellect]

in my dreams (at least the ones i can remember) it doesn't seem like i actually take part in them as a key character. it seems like i'm usually a third party looking in on the events happening in the dream. i forget probably 90% of what happens in my dreams, but i can oftern remember certain visuals and usually whether it was a weird dream or not. i've never really had a "bad" dream before, i find my dreams to be very entertaining (whether they are what someone might consider a nightmare or not) and i wish there was a way to record them so could watch them any time i wanted.

 

[Varg]

Ah! I feel the same way, They are so entertaining! Well hearing from two of you means I am not the only one out there. Agent you sound very similar to mine I tend to take a passive role in my dreams and observe myself. Here's something weird though. Any of you dream your were a member of the opposite sex?

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Yep, I'm mature enough to admit it, but I didn't realise I was out-of-gender at the time.

I've also been various other creatures and inanimate objects.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Yep, I'm mature enough to admit it, but I didn't realise I was out-of-gender at the time.

I've also been various other creatures and inanimate objects.

same. i've been an alien on several occasions (i think even a female alien at one point or another). my dreams also tend to make up people, adding in people that i've never met, and it seems like most of the time those people are black. possibly an upbringing thing?

 

[Varg]

It's so nice to hear other people have had similar experiences. I thought there was something odd about me really. Most of the time I take a 3rd person perspective on my dreams and in every dream I am "friends" with people that I have never met. Quite a lot of premonition dreams as well. Never bad things but mostly mundane things that don't even matter. Very strange.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i don't know about premonitions, but i do get deja vu a lot. mostly at work, but that could also be because i have a very monotonous job, doing the same thing every day.

 

[Aphasia]

I've got premonition-style dreams once in a while, but my dreams are usually nonsensical things. Oddly, I dream most of my dreams once (around 3/4ths of them), and have the rest twice. I never dream something more than two times. O.o

 

[flow]

Deja Vu really fucks with my head. I'll have an everyday situation arise (a teacher talking in class about a subject) and then BAM! My mind REMEMBERS this very event happening. It's so strange, but it's often like I dreamt the random situation up a few months ago, and then it happened. I can never seemingly predict situations, just feel as if I've already had this exact situation happen. I think most INTPs have trouble falling asleep, as we're sort of hyper-conscious beings.. at least that's how I feel. Maybe I'm being INTPcentric. Most of my dreams are "nightmares", or at least frightening/exciting. I rarely have sexual dreams, and I've never had any dreams of being someone else. I think having dreams where we are more an observer than interacting makes sense with our personality, as we normally don't want to interact with people... just observe and understand. I'm thoroughly enjoying everyone's input on this fascinating topic!

 

[Jordan~]

I find tragic or frightening dreams really enjoyable. I've had dreams when I've had to flee and lose my family, etc. One time I dreamt a 28 Days Later-esque zombie invasion, I woke up before I knew if I got away or not. It all happened in the dream version of my house, which is always the same in dreams but never the same as my actual house, and I hid in a wardrobe that isn't really there - but I could remember it being there. The zombies broke in downstairs - my mum was trying to barricade the door while I tried to find something that would get rid of them and was supposed to be in the en suite bathroom - and they flooded upstairs with a swarm of flies that ate anything soft. There were two stereotypical orphans in the wardrobe, all rags and runny noses, and one of them was about to sneeze so I kicked them both out before the zombies came. Then I looked out through a gap into my bedroom, through the window on the far wall, and saw the sun looking dead, or maybe feeling dead, pale yellow and hanging in the sky, with thin wisps of oily smoke passing over it, and the sky a faint red. Then I woke up.

ANYWAY, I woke up thinking "That was awesome!". Dreams are a great opportunity to be in danger without actually being in danger.

I can't remember if I've mentioned this, but I have really messed up dreams - usually nightmares - where I wake up in the dream before I actually wake up. One time I dreamt a whole day at school before waking up, and was confused thereafter as to whether or not things that I remembered happening were real. Another time, I dream-woke up from a meta-dream to find one of the characters from the dream, a female scientist, swimming in the air. It would take forever to explain why that was terrifying, so I won't. Then I really woke up, screaming.

 

[Waterstiller]

Deja vu.. oh god. When that happens I'm usually just sitting there thinking that time is going backwards and I get really weirded out. Actually, my intuition sorta makes me feel that way as well. When I let it take over it's like I'm remembering the present.


As for what gender I am in dreams, I've covered the gamut. Most of the time I'm genderless.

I haven't had a "good dream" in a really long time. They're all extremely disturbing. Last night I dreamed that I had, for some reason, decided to put staples all over my face. Then I freaked out when I looked in the mirror and realized I was bleeding. Then I had one of those signature "teeth falling out" type of dreams.

How about this one:
You dream of someone and then they call you or you run into them. This actually happened today where I dreamed I was with a friend I hadn't spoken to in months and woke up to find that he added me as a friend on Facebook.