Should I do acid

[Pizzabeak]

http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/lsd-strengthens-mind-s-semantic-network-study-finds

 

[PmjPmj]

Sudden realisation: It's actually Pizzabeak, not Pizzabreak.

*falls off chair*

 

[OmoInisa]

I usually blame my dog when I drop a real juicy fart. It is easy because it cannot or will not defend itself. Keeping INFPs around is like that too. They are so laid back and avoid confrontation.

I think this aversion to force is a manifestation of weak and unvalued Se, rather than Fi. In this INFPs are no different from INTPs.

The sort of intense personal venom that's at issue here is certainly Fi-like. An idiosyncratic value system has been interfered with, and the transgression will not pass. This is seen particularly sharply in ISFPs, who don't share INFPs' shyness with aggression. Think of Christopher Hitchens (likely ISFP) and Stephen Fry (likely INFP).

Inferior Fe anyone?

Precisely. One would expect inferior Fe to show in a preference for the maintenance of general decorum in the forum.

I'd say immaturity over Fi maybe. INTP groups seem to get a lot of ISTP's who think they are INTP's but I don't think a lot of, say INFP's. Or maybe not even immaturity but Fe inferior - I've certainly struggled with the childishness of my emotions over the years.

It's true that a lot of ISTPs think themselves INTPs. Blame the good old intuitive bias in MBTI. But while it may well be the case that more ISTPs than INFPs mistake themselves for INTPs (they are fellow Ti-doms after all), I suspect type forums are heavier on the INFP variety, simply because intuitives are more likely to be and remain interested in things that have no concrete basis.

This isn't really to suggest that Bronto is an INFP. I'm rather confused about his type, going off his behaviour on the forum. I would have to put it down to type-unrelated issues. His Ti-like reasoning is too prominent to dismiss, and I don't see any real indication of Te. On the other hand, his emotional behaviour seems more Fi than Fe. So perhaps a fundamental immaturity as you say. More so than inferior Fe, because inferior Fe is still Fe. Its lashing out tends to be against a violation of some supposedly common value, not a personal one.

When I observe a scenario like the business with Bronto (and also users like Cherry and redbaron) it brings to mind Clare Graves' levels of existence. Such users seem to me strong examples of the F-S to G-T states, which I think correlates well with what Jung classified as Fi.
While an individual may not necessarily have Jung's Fi innate disposition, their milieu (today's avant-garde and edgy crowd in the 16-30 age group in the western world) is F-S or G-T, and so the values they imbibe are F-S/G-T values.
So I might happily describe Bronto as a Ti-dom G-T/F-S man.
Regular Ti-doms, outside of external influences, I see as usually mainly G-T, and highly developed ones as mainly H-U. The development path for an INTP is in that transition.
Editor is an intriguing example of someone who seems mainly H-U.

This is all still rather self-indulgent on my part. The fact remains that Jung or Graves, Kant or Plato, inexcusable conduct remains such.

 

[Architect]

It's true that a lot of ISTPs think themselves INTPs. Blame the good old intuitive bias in MBTI. But while it may well be the case that more ISTPs than INFPs mistake themselves for INTPs (they are fellow Ti-doms after all), I suspect type forums are heavier on the INFP variety, simply because intuitives are more likely to be and remain interested in things that have no concrete basis.

I'd argue that MBTI has a concrete basis (I have a theory about how exactly it originates), but yes definately MBTI groups are N dominated, and S's who think they are N. Partially its a minority complex too; we're all the outsiders in society so we club together online.

When I observe a scenario like the business with Bronto (and also users like Cherry and redbaron) it brings to mind Clare Graves' levels of existence. Such users seem to me strong examples of the F-S to G-T states, which I think correlates well with what Jung classified as Fi.
While an individual may not necessarily have Jung's Fi innate disposition, their milieu (today's avant-garde and edgy crowd in the 16-30 age group in the western world) is F-S or G-T, and so the values they imbibe are F-S/G-T values.
So I might happily describe Bronto as a Ti-dom G-T/F-S man.
Regular Ti-doms, outside of external influences, I see as usually mainly G-T, and highly developed ones as mainly H-U. The development path for an INTP is in that transition.
Editor is an intriguing example of someone who seems mainly H-U.

Now for something new ... OK a little searching tells me a few things about Gravsian theory , interesting stuff and I'll have to take your word on it.

This is all still rather self-indulgent on my part. The fact remains that Jung or Graves, Kant or Plato, inexcusable conduct remains such.

Which in an INTP group is quite broad (allowable conduct that is). I get kicked out of most groups eventually for just having differing opinions from the consensus. I agree the one rule in our group should be keeping it civil and respectful.

 

[Grayman]

Ooooo ooooo type me Archie. I am curious of your opinion. Best done in the witch hunt thread. Kisses mewah

Seriously give it a go.

 

[Architect]

Ooooo ooooo type me Archie. I am curious of your opinion. Best done in the witch hunt thread. Kisses mewah

Seriously give it a go.

No idea and never paid any attention to you, sorry.

 

[Grayman]

No idea and never paid any attention to you, sorry.

No sorries needed. I only recently read your posts. You relate everything to MBTI in most every post in the past so I lost interest. I dont much care for such an unwavering perspective myself but I am curious as to how you would view someone like me based on this worldview you hold.

 

[Grayman]

BTW I'm just messn about the perspective shit. Thoight I should clarify, dont want you to pay off the mods to get rid of me or somtin.

 

[QuickTwist]

Sudden realisation: It's actually Pizzabeak, not Pizzabreak.

*falls off chair*

LOL... we have ALL thought that at some point.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I have yet to try acid, but DMT was/is fucking amazing. If it's anything like that (which I'm sure it will be on some level - just not as intense) then yeah, go for it. Just ensure that you're in a good state of mind, in a safe environment and with someone who you trust implicitly.

I fucking love DMT

 

[Architect]

NYou relate everything to MBTI in most every post in the past

It's a MBTI forum, so unsurprisingly I come here for discussions about MBTI.

 

[Grayman]

It's a MBTI forum, so unsurprisingly I come here for discussions about MBTI.

Actually this is an INTP forum. I am an INTP so, unsurprisingly I am here. The MBTI mumbo jumbo should be reserved for the MBTI sub forum.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Edit

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Oh dear god please let the acid deities teach you how to paragraph again....

 

[Pizzabeak]

Sure thing man, didn't think it was that much but it ended having some kind of effect I guess, my point was, that I have tried acid before but it was a long time ago and I may have forgotten entirely but the overall lessons were the same only then I just added a paragraph or two to a facebook post and called it a day but was overall satisfied with the results, at the time. Wasn't sure what I did back then but this time we mixed it with some weed so it was kind of different I think. The trip didn't make sense which is why about half way through I felt I had to consult someone so we put some music on and stuff.

But if I can be serious here for a moment, when I first made this thread I originally meant to say 'should I do acid again', and hoped to reach a general conclusion on this point. Surprisingly, it put me into the mood of watching a movie so I considered this in earnest, however, I ended up settling for some music while noticing the visuals kicking in. This accompanied an overall decrease in motor activity but as always, I didn't regret it. As was expected I enjoyed immense inner exploration before transmogrifying into a more extroverted state. Since I have since accumulated a vast store of knowledge about the LSD intoxication I merely took this to be a good thing because it seemed to be begging me to have some questions answered or at least posed.

Generally, I had heard that out of body experiences were very common off acid, and since that topic has been entering my area of research lately, I felt I had to take the plunge. OOBEs have been said to be linked to NDEs as well as the DMT intoxication, so it was suggested that I turn to and revisit LSD for another examination, my initial reports having been considered inconclusive. As such, it wasn't my first choice had mushrooms or anything else been available I probably would have gone with that but acid offered a general more lucrative study opportunity.

However, no OOBEs were successful this time but it is clear that next time more preparation would be needed to see if I can pull one off, and perhaps observing more its effect on sleep and dreams would be worthwhile while at it. One major thing in my life was made clear to me, and having been weaned off pot I figured some obvious life lessons would be in store for me. I won't go and claim that there are any major positive effects but some of the time I had wished I were only on weed or something less intense. Some of its puzzles it offered were interesting but for fear of possible brain damage I would not be willing to conduct further or continued use, as the way it changes, perhaps permanently your brain were somewhat apparent, and as I've previously expressed the positive claims to it were met with a skeptical eye.

On the one hand I couldn't become so excited as the novelty to it was familiar and since it was really early in the day I felt I had been through this already, and was prepared to maybe at least watch a movie I haven't yet seen. What kept me entertained most of the trip however was its similarity to DMT. I had also heard that it could put you into contact with entities so barring my low enough dose it helped put that into context. Unfortunately, it just made me think of the nature of the DMT entity experience instead of trying to focus on what the acid was telling me. I looked at this in accordance with my low chance of scoring another major LSD trip for fear of possible damaging my brain. The flood of serotonin didn't really feel that good, and it wasn't something that I could allow interfering with my life responsibilities.

If there were people around me on acid I wouldn't really mind it, as experience has shown that positive and negative side effects can be considered nearly equal, split down the 50/50, with little consequence whatsoever. The visuals heavily resembled low dose sessions of DMT but with that it seemed there could be a specific meaning to it, whereas with this I merely noted it as being something similar to DMT. You can notice geometric patterns on stuff with pot sometimes but not necessarily anything wavy. But only then, as previously mentioned, I more or less understood it as an area where you can just prepare maybe for an OOBE or inner meditation. So having this on my mind it was a clear night and gazing up at the constellations, you could notice geometric like lathes or lattices connecting the stars, perhaps having something to do with the light, but this is also something that you can see without drugs or even just on weed. I thought this would be interesting to bring up as the constellation Orion looked marvelous, but I just had to hope maybe I could do that next time as this wasn't planned and time seemed to be running short. I hypothesized that maybe some ancient cultures like the Egyptians used it as a tool for their astronomy back then. I thought I remembered hearing something about that but no specific examples.

So long story short I have to further refrain from acting knowledgeable about certain things that I don't have that much experience with, it seemed that would be a wise thing to do. Other than this and general euphoria there aren't really any benefits to it. Some people have died by taking acid and God bless them but this seems to be an unfair stigma placed upon the substance, if anything. There's no point in using drugs as I've said previously but if someone were to spike the punch you shouldn't panic. Because of my current obsessions and life path it would be interesting to see how regular OOBEs are with it and what the implications may be for science. The hippies were wrong and LSD isn't the answer for everything but won't be afraid to read more about it in the future if possible. One possible major test that has yet to be performed is to have any entities give knowledge and answers of our difficult equations to the user so he or she may bring it back to Earth and see if it could help at all however, the actual compatibility this may have with reality is currently unknown, but it would be interesting to see if anything like that could work out. Not too long ago there was a proposed mechanism for entering the DMT hyperspace, since drinking yopo is different. This acid trip just felt like I was too high for too long whereas DMT usually lasts only ten to fifteen minutes on average. All I can say about that now is the overall entity contact may be an ancient technology used to access some kind of prenatal realm that we all come from, so as to reinforce better behavior amongst peers, or to try and breed the perfect, ideal meta human clone.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I think you figured out Aesop Rock's secret.

 

[Reluctantly]

I'm not familiar with it, but I've read it can permanently change and damage your brain chemistry. Based on that, I'd say no. If that's not true, I'd say it's fine to try once just for the experience.

so I don't know

edit: Oh, but you've already done it. well then, I'd say it's up to you lol.

 

[Kelly]

I have recently, in the past 6 months, had my first psychedelic experiences and they have been some of the most profound and life changes experiences of my life.

To say that we INTPs have a rich inner life is obvious. Psychedelics (specifically acid and mescaline for me) are simply tools to explore new areas of my mind. The physical risks will have to be decided on a personal level, but in all of my research (which was months long, well over 80-100 hours of reading scientific journals, personal trip reports and everything in between), I have concluded the general safety of psychedelics vs other drugs like alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, etc.

---

The most exciting part of lsd for me is the effect of the left/right brain hemispheres. Generally speaking the left brain is responsible for all of the primal fight or flight responses. When you have LSD, all that stuff gets turned off and suddenly my right brain has almost endless room to explore.

I think of it very much like a computer. Psychedelics free up a TON of processing power by first ripping away the primal instincts, and then slowly pulling back the ego until all that is left is pure thought...that is fucking exhilarating for me!

---

Outside of the possible negative health effects (which I believe to be minimal to null), I would think any INTP could get a lot out of psychedelics...just be mindful of Set & Setting.

 

[WhatWasThat]

I have recently, in the past 6 months, had my first psychedelic experiences and they have been some of the most profound and life changes experiences of my life.

To say that we INTPs have a rich inner life is obvious. Psychedelics (specifically acid and mescaline for me) are simply tools to explore new areas of my mind. The physical risks will have to be decided on a personal level, but in all of my research (which was months long, well over 80-100 hours of reading scientific journals, personal trip reports and everything in between), I have concluded the general safety of psychedelics vs other drugs like alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, etc.

---

The most exciting part of lsd for me is the effect of the left/right brain hemispheres. Generally speaking the left brain is responsible for all of the primal fight or flight responses. When you have LSD, all that stuff gets turned off and suddenly my right brain has almost endless room to explore.

I think of it very much like a computer. Psychedelics free up a TON of processing power by first ripping away the primal instincts, and then slowly pulling back the ego until all that is left is pure thought...that is fucking exhilarating for me!

---

Outside of the possible negative health effects (which I believe to be minimal to null), I would think any INTP could get a lot out of psychedelics...just be mindful of Set & Setting.

Well said. I can see both sides of the argument from an INTP perspective. The "why would I want to fuck with my brain?" argument and the "this will open up a whole new way of thinking" argument. There is of course a risk of it causing major mental problems (especially in those who were already prone to schizophrenia/bipolar/etc) but the vast majority of people encounter no such problems and many people actually feel they gain valuable insights that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

That is what makes psychedelics very different from the more "hedonistic" drugs like alcohol, opiates, cocaine, etc. The pleasure derived from psychedelics is from experiencing the reality of your mind and the world in a completely new way. It's not just about "feeling good" like most recreational drugs. Because of that they are generally completely non addictive as well.

I can totally understand people's reason for not wanting to do them though, and people who would resist a temporary change in the way their brain works would probably end up having a bad trip anyway. A psychedelic experience is really all about just letting it happen.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I have recently, in the past 6 months, had my first psychedelic experiences and they have been some of the most profound and life changes experiences of my life.

To say that we INTPs have a rich inner life is obvious. Psychedelics (specifically acid and mescaline for me) are simply tools to explore new areas of my mind. The physical risks will have to be decided on a personal level, but in all of my research (which was months long, well over 80-100 hours of reading scientific journals, personal trip reports and everything in between), I have concluded the general safety of psychedelics vs other drugs like alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, etc.

I think different types of people can have different experiences on them so it's safe to say INTP's can have more meditative moments but all other types will have the Buddha like experience as well. And it might typically be like that but there could be other reasons for being into the substances at that. So it becomes a thing that other people can experience and value however much. You can't really just use substances to meditate and they say it's better without them. They want to say there's a significance with the structure of a molecule and how damaging it can be to health. Maybe too much of any one thing can ruin the mind and indeed people have been known to get fried, permanently, but it seems rare. There's potential for abuse even with alcohol or cocaine but it begins to be rather habit forming. It's also safe to say damage is pretty minimal with most psychoactive substances and how short the effects are. But the main thing is they also have the power to heal, so too much can probably be bad on the mind when you don't need it.

---

The most exciting part of lsd for me is the effect of the left/right brain hemispheres. Generally speaking the left brain is responsible for all of the primal fight or flight responses. When you have LSD, all that stuff gets turned off and suddenly my right brain has almost endless room to explore.

I think of it very much like a computer. Psychedelics free up a TON of processing power by first ripping away the primal instincts, and then slowly pulling back the ego until all that is left is pure thought...that is fucking exhilarating for me!

No one knows what LSD does besides saturate the serotonin or 5-hydroxytryptamine glands. And indeed, the human mind-body is very much like a computer itself. It's its own one. People prefer a natural meditation than to a drug induced one. And even those can be variable. It can be quite indescribable for instance. When I tried it it just made me feel like a hippie with more concern about the world, and why there's so much concern. But with intense meditation I think you can see those kinds of patterns going on in the mind.

---

Outside of the possible negative health effects (which I believe to be minimal to null), I would think any INTP could get a lot out of psychedelics...just be mindful of Set & Setting.

I didn't think there were many negative health effects except society giving you the ol' brown eye. I can see psychedelics not being INTPs thing but it could. It could be logical not to do them because of possible brain damage but if any insight into the sciences could be glimpsed with them and meditation then they could be good routes for spiritual exploration. However, this isn't always the case. There's a recent fad around too about Silicon Valley entrepreneurs being into ayahuasca if it gives them more ideas how to help people, so there are usually some comp sci people in there trying to find ways and also that Steve Jobs originally did acid trying to break into the industry. I would say there's not much help there but also it could be like how it was back then when they could be prescribed by professionals. But, they were judged to have no medical use whatsoever for a reason.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

My housemate and I are going to experiment with mixing painkillers and lsd this weekend. It should be a fun time.

Psychedelics free up a TON of processing power by first ripping away the primal instincts

Funny, because when I take psychedelics the instincts seem to become more prominent. Less ego though, true. So I become like more of a vessel for the universe's instincts (dumb way to describe it, I know, but I lack all better words).

 

[Pizzabeak]

Be safe and good luck. Probably get an intense body high. I think my instincts get more prominent too, there's definitely a concern for safety without all the proper set and setting.

 

[Lot]

The pain killers will likely lessen the trip. Might feel nice, but you wont trip as hard. Pain killers and benzos are frequently used to stop or lessen a trip when it turns sour.

 

[Pizzabeak]

It sounds like a strange combination. Something along the lines of apomorphine are routinely used to stop bad trips. Benzos are anti anxiety but you can get a similar outcome from both. I wouldn't have recommended that but if that's what you want. Also, how many tabs will you have? Like Lot said you probably won't trip as hard but wouldn't mind how it felt. But do tell, I suppose.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I'm not planning on tripping really at all. Our first go at it will be essentially just a microdose. 10mg hydrocodone and like a quarter or half a tab.

Mostly I just want to try this combination to see how it works. When I'm on painkillers I often have this sensation of my mind floating away and I enter this kind of trippy headspace and I mostly just want to see if I can accentuate this headspace even more with some acid.

If it turns out well then I might up the acid to like a tab or tab and a half, but I don't have many chances to experiment seeing as my norco supply is running low.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I hear hydrocodone isn't strong enough to really disrupt a trip but it sounds like that isn't really what you're looking for. You could really even attempt to accentuate the headspace with weed. Just as long as it isn't a serotonin receptor antagonist it shouldn't be effected too much. Anti-anxiety act on GABA which could reduce everything. Painkillers act differently. I'd suspect they'd have an effect but nothing too drastic... I've never been into pills myself, so I just predict a particularly euphoric mood. The amount of acid matters too, regarding muscle spasms; etc.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

10/10 this is very nice.

would recommend to everyone.
excellent family activity.
pediatrician approved 100%.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Nice to hear. I've been so bored lately man I've been considering doing LSD again out of curiosity. But it might not be a good idea. I need to start implementing my career change. Will be busy so I'll need a day or two. I'll probably hold off on doing any though for a while. Just entertained the thought. But what do you think the purpose is? It's kind of overrated but I don't think it's just another potent intoxicant. Would be cool to try at a good concert or something in real hippie fashion. I don't want to just be at home feeling like that and having to put music on or something, would be cool.