Shooting in Aurora Colorado (at Batman premiere)

[Agent Intellect]

I looked around and was surprised this wasn't mentioned yet (or if it was, that it wasn't popular enough to still be at the top).

Any thoughts?



If you haven't heard about it, here are some links:

Names of victims.
The shooting was heavily planned out by the perpetrator.

 

[Cognisant]

What's there to say?

He's crazy and it's too easy to get guns in the US.

 

[Jason]

Guns kill people like spoons make people fat. The problem is a lot more complicated than gun control. Sometimes situations like these are a convenient precursor to a loss of freedom. The UN Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty perhaps? http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/

 

[NinjaSurfer]

he was probably an INTP who didn't know he was an INTP
therefore he led a life of misunderstanding which materialized into no friends, no girlfriend, resorted to AdultFriendFinder which failed, and so his last ditch effort to gain attention was to go out in a blaze;
why he informed the police of his booby traps is beyond me
it would seem logical that he would not alert them to his booby traps and blow them to hell as well
so that's the only part that does not make sense
as for the media (and the president and Romney) referring to it as "senseless"-- it actually makes a lot of sense; maybe not to us, but if you put yourself in his shoes, he's a nobody, nobody paid him any attention, ever, nobody even knew he existed until he killed a bunch of people; I don't think he is insane-- or maybe he is;

either way, I would bring back torture and torture him for the rest of his life; who cares.

people like him should be available for mind control testing and human testing for other exploratory drugs ==> that is the only way to make use of his soul; he should be donated to science

 

[Cognisant]

@Jason

Twelve dead, women and children amongst them, if that's your freedom I don't want it, I'm happy living in a country where gun licenses require full background checks and ammunition isn't sold in regular stores.

Do you know what freedom is for? Do you know what freedom is?
Freedom is for living, now there's twelve people who have no freedom at all.

And why?
Because you're uncomfortable with the size of your dick.

 

[skip]

If I were his parents I would take a long vacation out of the country.

 

[Jason]

Freedom can never be comfortable for everyone all the time. And guns do require a background check in the U.S. If you start taking away guns to keep people safe from each other you open the flood gates. Guns are our defense against tyranny and oppression no matter where it comes from. Maybe if guns were more accessible someone in that theater would have shot him?

I don't own a gun and have no need for one anytime soon. And dick size really?

 

[NinjaSurfer]

@Jason

Twelve dead, women and children amongst them, if that's your freedom I don't want it, I'm happy living in a country where gun licenses require full background checks and ammunition isn't sold in regular stores.

Do you know what freedom is for? Do you know what freedom is?
Freedom is for living, now there's twelve people who have no freedom at all.

And why?
Because you're uncomfortable with the size of your dick.

Freedom can never be comfortable for everyone all the time. And guns do require a background check in the U.S. If you start taking away guns to keep people safe from each other you open the flood gates. Guns are our defense against tyranny and oppression no matter where it comes from. Maybe if guns were more accessible someone in that theater would have shot him?

I don't own a gun and have no need for one anytime soon. And dick size really?

Cognisant-- even though I agree with your general sentiments, I don't agree that gun prohibition is the solution. Nor do I see the availability of guns as a huge problem.

Sure, the lack of availability of guns and ammo MAY have deterred this crime... but I think people with the ability to premeditate months beforehand and have the propensity to build booby trapped bombs will eventually find a way to kill.

This kind of mass murder, Columbine, Virginia Tech-- they actually occur at such a low frequency compared to our population. You kind of just have to expect this outlier type event to occur every once-in-a-while and it doesn't make sense to institute laws on a mass scale to MAYBE prevent something like this.

If he didn't have guns, maybe he would have doused the place with gasoline, chained the doors, and lit the whole theater on fire. Who knows.

My gut feeling tells me he would have found a way to kill and get his 15-minutes one way or another.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

What's there to say?

He's crazy and it's too easy to get guns in the US.

As someone in the US in favor of tighter firearm regulations (Joe 6-pack can legally buy an assault rifle? srsly?) I can easily say that you can't blame it on guns. Any idiot can make enough explosive to blow a house with $50 of supplies from the local hardware store (or ~$10 at the local gas station). What do we do, restrict that knowledge? Start handing out gas pump licenses?

I'm happy living in a country where gun licenses require full background checks and ammunition isn't sold in regular stores.

Do you know what freedom is for? Do you know what freedom is?
Freedom is for living, now there's twelve people who have no freedom at all.

Many states require full background checks and some make you wait for several days to be able to pick it up even after it's approved. Many also restrict the number of firearms that can be purchased within a given time period. Are you saying that someone with such motivations couldn't move through the additional layers of red tape in Australia?

I agree. Freedom is about living, but bureaucracy and feel-good legislation don't fix societal problems in a country with a very different history and population size (and firearm abundance for that matter) than the rest of the West. The state of Pennsylvania alone has more deer hunters (9.3 million) than active millitary in all but 5 countries (China, India, North Korea, Russia, USA).

 

[snafupants]

I was pretty sickened by the swiftness and surety by which CNN sought to limit gun rights, personal privacy, and (hypocritically) violence in the media.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I was pretty sickened by the swiftness and surety by which CNN sought to limit gun rights, personal privacy, and (hypocritically) violence in the media.

I'm personally sickened every time I have to read the words "loner", "quiet", "intelligent", "nerd", "socially awkward", etc.

Does journalism exist anymore? (Dumb question, I know).

 

[Kuu]

At least where I'm from, people gruesomely slaughter scores of strangers for money.


Also, 'right to bear arms' 'damn liberals want the government to take our guns away!' people crack me up. As if they weren't living in a dumbed-down, free-to-consume, debt-ridden, oligarchy-run oppressive society already...

 

[Architect]

• Lots of media articles
• Candlelight vigils, trials, etc
• Discussion about gun control
• Heightened security at movie theaters
• Foreigners talk about how awful it is in the U.S.
• No fundamental change to anything
• Life continues

Unfortunately the pattern is quite clear.

I am curious as to what happened with this boy.

 

[Cognisant]

Guns are our defense against tyranny and oppression no matter where it comes from.

Now that's exactly what I'm talking about, do you really think you're better than a trained soldier (pro tip: they travel in groups, often a tank/APC and air support) or a UAV that's so far up you can't even see it, or an artillery shell/missile from a ship miles over the horizon?

Where are you going to go, who are you going to shoot?

Maybe this guy felt oppressed somehow, now that may seem like an irrational perspective for him to have but here's the thing, is your perspective any less irrational?

Many states require full background checks and some make you wait for several days to be able to pick it up even after it's approved. Many also restrict the number of firearms that can be purchased within a given time period. Are you saying that someone with such motivations couldn't move through the additional layers of red tape in Australia?

They would have a hard time getting more than one gun, it would take several months, if they have a criminal record it's not going to happen and I don't think you can can get a license for automatic weaponry of any kind here.

With an incredible amount of persistence he could have acquired one pistol and one rifle and with such limited weaponry I imagine the death count would have been much lower.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I've observed elsewhere that this topic seems to result in one of three discussions:

1. Gun control.
2. The perpetrator: motivations (Violent movies? This movie specifically? General insanity? Or was it somehow rational?) and/or fitting punishment.
3. What this will mean for the movie "The Dark Knight Rises." (ticket sales, stigma, how it will be remembered connected with this incident, etc).

I had my money on #2 for this forum. I'm a little disappointed.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

Now that's exactly what I'm talking about, do you really think you're better than a trained soldier (pro tip: they travel in groups, often a tank/APC and air support) or a UAV that's so far up you can't even see it, or an artillery shell/missile from a ship miles over the horizon?

Where are you going to go, who are you going to shoot?

Maybe this guy felt oppressed somehow, now that may seem like an irrational perspective for him to have but here's the thing, is your perspective any less irrational?


They would have a hard time getting more than one gun, it would take several months, if they have a criminal record it's not going to happen and I don't think you can can get a license for automatic weaponry of any kind here.

With an incredible amount of persistence he could have acquired one pistol and one rifle and with such limited weaponry I imagine the death count would have been much lower.

why not tackle the entire educational system-- which pretty much put the guy shit-out-of-luck as he couldn't cut it through med school?

his whole life down the drain with (seemingly) no options...

I think that might be a more productive institution to tackle;

legislation to sweep the nation to cut the deaths of massacres that happen once every few years that may or may not happen anyways seems like a lot of work for minimal (if any) results;

what if the kid had options and counsel and support for his career post dropping out? maybe his neuro-surgeon career was all that was keeping him from snapping, and if better job opportunities or a career path was clear then he wouldn't have snapped.

 

[Da Blob]

he was probably an INTP who didn't know he was an INTP
therefore he led a life of misunderstanding which materialized into no friends, no girlfriend, resorted to AdultFriendFinder which failed, and so his last ditch effort to gain attention was to go out in a blaze;
why he informed the police of his booby traps is beyond me
it would seem logical that he would not alert them to his booby traps and blow them to hell as well
so that's the only part that does not make sense
as for the media (and the president and Romney) referring to it as "senseless"-- it actually makes a lot of sense; maybe not to us, but if you put yourself in his shoes, he's a nobody, nobody paid him any attention, ever, nobody even knew he existed until he killed a bunch of people; I don't think he is insane-- or maybe he is;

My first thought, also was that he was an INTPian and I even suspected that he could have been a former member of this forum, I thought I remembered someone with a Joker avatar (?)

The thing that bothers me the most is the Media Circus that has ensued after this horrible tragedy. It seems as if there are those who delight in morbidity and some announcers sound quite delighted, they say 'horrible tragedy" or other cliche in a tone of voce that suggests quite the opposite.

What bothers me secondarily (like others I've developed an immunity to the media portrayal of senseless violence), is the issue of wasted intellect.

I met quite a few geniuses, when I attended the University of Chicago, but I may have met even more when I worked in a prison. The incident in Colorado is just another example of the failures of our society to take care of its human capital. What minor investment in this young man's life was lacking?

I think someone has already used the 'For Want of a Nail" analogy in this case, but for the lack of something - instead of a potential Nobel Prize winning neuroscientist, we have a mass murderer, who will join the ranks of the "Gaoled Geniuses"...

 

[Solitaire U.]

From your link:

"We can now start the natural process of grieving and healing," Aurora Mayor Steve Hogan said at a memorial late on Saturday for one young shooting victim: "We're still reeling."

Oh for fucks sake. This is why I refuse to give a shit about these kinds of events. I'd wager that US politicians have running contracts with shithouse-rat crazy people to do stuff like this just so they can climb their bullshit 'process of grieving and healing/still reeling' political ladders.

 

[Cognisant]

I've observed elsewhere that this topic seems to result in one of three discussions:

1. Gun control.
2. The perpetrator: motivations (Violent movies? This movie specifically? General insanity? Or was it somehow rational?) and/or fitting punishment.
3. What this will mean for the movie "The Dark Knight Rises." (ticket sales, stigma, how it will be remembered connected with this incident, etc).

I had my money on #2 for this forum. I'm a little disappointed.

Now that we have something to go on I've created a thread to discuss it.

 

[Jennywocky]

I've observed elsewhere that this topic seems to result in one of three discussions:

1. Gun control.
2. The perpetrator: motivations (Violent movies? This movie specifically? General insanity? Or was it somehow rational?) and/or fitting punishment.
3. What this will mean for the movie "The Dark Knight Rises." (ticket sales, stigma, how it will be remembered connected with this incident, etc).

I had my money on #2 for this forum. I'm a little disappointed.

I was basically for giving the relatives of the dead a few days to mourn, then stick the perpetrator under a microscope and beginning the psychological dissection.

I hope that makes you feel a bit better, if not completely.

 

[Moocow]

I was basically for giving the relatives of the dead a few days to mourn, then stick the perpetrator under a microscope and beginning the psychological dissection.

I hope that makes you feel a bit better, if not completely.

I don't think they're reading this forum.

I don't have much to contribute other than to point out that his mother seemed to know immediately that it was him when the news broke.

 

[addictedartist]

I heard it was a good movie, but now I dont know if I should wait for it or go see in theatres~!?

 

[Jennywocky]

I don't think they're reading this forum.

I just meant as a general thing.

Certainly the huge majority of America does not read this forum, unfortunately, so I suppose you are in the clear and not at much risk of stomping on someone's toes, except by proxy, if you wish to analyze the murderer within a day or two of the incident.

I just don't have much motivation to do so right now.

Probably later, after everything's settled.

I don't have much to contribute other than to point out that his mother seemed to know immediately that it was him when the news broke.

I remember that.
It makes me wonder how many crazy people are walking around out there whose mothers suspect they might be capable of great atrocity.
Maybe that should be an automatic reason to lock someone up, considering how mothers usually have a more-than-rosy view of their offspring.

 

[Trebuchet]

I'm personally sickened every time I have to read the words "loner", "quiet", "intelligent", "nerd", "socially awkward", etc.

Does journalism exist anymore? (Dumb question, I know).

Thank you, exactly. That was the first thing I noticed when reading about it: how much the press emphasized the evils of being introverted. To them, quiet = crazy murderer.

I hadn't intended to see the movie, because the first one was too dark for my taste, but now it has been ruined for a lot of people, probably including the people who made it, and that is a shame.

I thought it was awful that so many people were murdered. But it was even more awful the way it was being covered by the press, who nurture bad news and try to turn everything into a culture war. I wonder if the press might have stirred things up so much that this kind of shooting is the result, rather than the cause, of their stories.

 

[Da Blob]

Thank you, exactly. That was the first thing I noticed when reading about it: how much the press emphasized the evils of being introverted. To them, quiet = crazy murderer.

I hadn't intended to see the movie, because the first one was too dark for my taste, but now it has been ruined for a lot of people, probably including the people who made it, and that is a shame.

I thought it was awful that so many people were murdered. But it was even more awful the way it was being covered by the press, who nurture bad news and try to turn everything into a culture war. I wonder if the press might have stirred things up so much that this kind of shooting is the result, rather than the cause, of their stories.

I really think that is a possibility, that the media encourages and rewards maladaptive behavior by paying so much attention to it. There are some children who feel invisible and ignored, who will do anything for attention and if they are not paid attention to for their good efforts, they realize that by indulging in 'bad' behavior they will get attention, just not of the preferred sort. There is a control issue embedded in this, that both the media and 'bad' kids have learned to manipulate. That is, if the audience is not going to pay attention to the good, they will force the audience to pay attention to the bad...

The very first example of the media's role in promoting violence, that I can remember, was the acclaim given to Truman Capote for his book, In Cold Blood. He made heroes of two men who butchered an entire family on a farm in western Kansas. After that one began to hear of mass murders quite often, whereas prior to that, random violence of that scale was rare and not common as it is today.

 

[Da Blob]

So what is wrong with this picture?


[bimgx=550]http://intpforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1772&stc=1&d=1343233411[/bimgx]

 

[Jennywocky]

He got a nose job? And didn't really need one?
(I like how his hair is standing up a bit on the first pic, to look like horns.)

Oh wait. It's not really him. I see now. Or they doctored it with photoshop to make him look more smugly demonic.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Uh...he got a nose job and dyed his hair?

*Edit - Yeah, and what ^ she said a minute before I posted this.

 

[ApostateAbe]

So what is wrong with this picture?


[bimgx=550]http://intpforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1772&stc=1&d=1343233411[/bimgx]

Nothing. When people smile, they generally flare their nostrils.

 

[Jennywocky]

Uh...he got a nose job and dyed his hair?

*Edit - Yeah, and what ^ she said a minute before I posted this.

I was being a bit sarcastic about the nose job, although I wasn't positive. The tip looks the same, and what Abe said holds true as well.

And this bit of thrill from Yahoo news:

In the hours after his arrest Friday for the massacre at the Aurora, Colo., movie theater, Holmes stared at the wall in the Arapahoe Police Headquarters with his eyebrows twitching.

Holmes told police he was the fictitious Batman villain, the Joker, and when cops put evidence bags over his hands to preserve traces of gunpowder residue, he pretended the bags were puppets, law enforcement sources told KMGH-TV.

*doh*

 

[Agent Intellect]

Example of how much of an asshole I am:

"Have you seen The Dark Knight Rises yet? I heard some people in Colorado thought it was to die for."

-Me to a co-worker today.

 

[Jennywocky]

Holy sh*! You son of a gun!

 

[Pizzabeak]

I don't think a smile would exaggerate someone's nostrils as much as they are in that pic.

 

[ApostateAbe]

I don't think a smile would exaggerate someone's nostrils as much as they are in that pic.

Some people's nostrils flare more than others when they smile, an explanation I find more plausible than either plastic surgery or a conspiracy.

 

[GYX_Kid]

I was pretty sickened by the swiftness and surety by which CNN sought to limit gun rights, personal privacy, and (hypocritically) violence in the media.

Batman, the Joker, these Rock n' Roll bands and Fruity Pebbles are all plagued by Satan I tell you! Kids these days need to learn some wholesome ....uh, ........earwigs.

Anyway, the shooter did actually say something about being the Joker, didn't he? First thing I thought after hearing about it was "does this guy think he's the Joker or something?"

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

 

[nemo]

@ProxyAmenRa Word.

I was pretty shook up when I heard about this. Then again, I am an emotional person, and many things shake me up. Same as some of you, I dislike how the media immediately picks on certain traits of the suspect - getting quotes that he was quiet, was a bit outside the group, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSyIvr6C7zY&feature=player_embedded
A young guy being a bit insensitive and swearing a LOT. But his points aren't unreasonable.

http://berniesu.tumblr.com/post/276...creation-and-experience-of-art#note-container
A webseries writer talking about his reaction.

 

[Lot]

@ProxyAmenRa
You are my favorite member of this forum now.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Word.

I was pretty shook up when I heard about this. Then again, I am an emotional person, and many things shake me up. Same as some of you, I dislike how the media immediately picks on certain traits of the suspect - getting quotes that he was quiet, was a bit outside the group, etc.

I would be concerned if someone did not become uneasy learning about people being murdered, suffering, etc.

The guy who committed this act has mental health issues. I wonder why he never sought help. Professionals, friends. family, etc. ? Is he actually a sociopath or a psychopath?

A young guy being a bit insensitive and swearing a LOT. But his points aren't unreasonable.

Ahh, Australian lingua franca.

 

[hurricanejane]

I live only and few minutes from this theater and was absolutely shocked when I heard about the shooting. I was so lucky that none of my friends who had been in that theater had gotten hurt. And that most of friends had been at a different theater all together. All of Colorado is still shocked but hasnt really reacted yet, I dont think it has quite sunk in.

Now the only thing people talk about now is what punishment they want for him. Being the logical person I am I knew the only things would make up for what he did would be if he died 12 times, then lost his family and friends. But after finally calming down over these days I really dont know whether i want him to get killed fast or sit in a jail and rot.

Yes, i do believe he could very well be an INTP. But the strangest thing about him is a video they found of him talking in front of a science class. I dont know if any of you have seen it but he talk about some theory that he introduces as "a theory that things in the past can be changed" And this makes me think that maybe he started to believe in this science theory so much that he thought he could do such a horrible thing and then be able to change it.
I wish i could find the video for you all and if i do Ill post it here.

Its interesting to here all your thoughts on this tragedy.

 

[ijustprotectedmyidentity]

he was probably an INTP who didn't know he was an INTP
therefore he led a life of misunderstanding which materialized into no friends, no girlfriend, resorted to AdultFriendFinder which failed, and so his last ditch effort to gain attention was to go out in a blaze;
why he informed the police of his booby traps is beyond me
it would seem logical that he would not alert them to his booby traps and blow them to hell as well
so that's the only part that does not make sense
as for the media (and the president and Romney) referring to it as "senseless"-- it actually makes a lot of sense; maybe not to us, but if you put yourself in his shoes, he's a nobody, nobody paid him any attention, ever, nobody even knew he existed until he killed a bunch of people; I don't think he is insane-- or maybe he is;

either way, I would bring back torture and torture him for the rest of his life; who cares.

people like him should be available for mind control testing and human testing for other exploratory drugs ==> that is the only way to make use of his soul; he should be donated to science

so you think the gun men went crazy because he didnt get enough attention... right....

 

[The Gopher]

Example of how much of an asshole I am:

"Have you seen The Dark Knight Rises yet? I heard some people in Colorado thought it was to die for."

-Me to a co-worker today.

I haven't seen it yet I was waiting till the crowds died down ... and many others of which I am ashamed that I thought off.