Shaving is self-hatred

own8ge

Existential Nihilist
Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant

Minuend

pat pat
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Nothing wrong with it, might be a tad impractical tho.

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

problem with this concept is definition of self. what if you can't find boundaries at all so you can't step on a single ant, ever, or you extend the boundaries only slightly to include the bugs who live in your hairs (they eat you up, you allow it, looks a lot like self-deprecation), or you withdraw the boundaries to exclude body, the body-mind, even the soul, leaving only pure spirit. or is my self that which is still alive, growing? hairs are rather dead. is my self that which is sentient? hairs are not all that sensitive. or is my self simply the principle of organic nature, in which case we are back to not stepping on ants, ever. or is the true self essentially a verb. everything i do within the world of form, including cutting of my hairs?

but i agree with the rules (not that i care)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant

Architect

Professional INTP
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

isn't that nutritious? you scratch your head, the dead skin goes under your fingernails (that's how they come to be so black, the smeary skin attracts dust), you eat it. perfect recycling.

7even

Active Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Gah, you spelled 'hatred' wrong. WHY?!

Anyhow, I'm sure all of you are aware of a condition called 'Wolf Syndrome' ->

(If very hairy faces disturb you, don't check out the image? )

Architect

Professional INTP
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

We have to include urination and, especially, defecation.

Akuma

Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

It's also "natural" to preen yourself.
Besides having long hair is really tiring to wash and it can be unpleasant to kiss people with facial hair.

pernoctator

a bearded robocop
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Does this only apply to yourself? If you cut someone else's hair (or wish it to be cut), do you hate them?

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Does this only apply to yourself? If you cut someone else's hair (or wish it to be cut), do you hate them?
true dat.

bitches must hate dem poodles den

Actually if you cut someone elses hair without their consent it shows that their current state is actually disturbing you. If their current state disturbs you then you aren't pleased with them.

So yeah, shaving means you hate yourself with a beard.

I think the opposite applies too?

Not shaving means you hate yourself without a beard?

But you are born without a beard.

You live most of your childhood without a beard.

You are seeking youth if you shave. You love your childhood?

You are seeking maturity if you don't shave. You hate your childhood?

I think the last two statements got really fucked up and I don't think it was properly deduced at all.

TriflinThomas

Bitch, don't kill my vibe...
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

It's hygiene, not self-hatred. I keep my hair short because it's easier to clean (and I spend less money on shampoo, and less time getting ready).

snafupants

Prolific Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant
Perhaps this discussion's ambit should swivel to programmed cell death in the human body?

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Does this only apply to yourself? If you cut someone else's hair (or wish it to be cut), do you hate them?
true dat.

bitches must hate dem poodles den

Actually if you cut someone elses hair without their consent it shows that their current state is actually disturbing you. If their current state disturbs you then you aren't pleased with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_grooming

In social animals, including humans, social grooming, or allogrooming is an activity in which individuals in a group clean or maintain one another's body or appearance.

People report grooming romantic partners more than grooming people they have other types of relationships with such as family members, friends, and strangers. Grooming is associated with increased relationship satisfaction, trust, and experience of family affection while growing up. People who groom, as opposed to touching each other without grooming, are perceived to be better potential parents, more in love with the person they have groomed and more caring and committed to them.​

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_grooming

In social animals, including humans, social grooming, or allogrooming is an activity in which individuals in a group clean or maintain one another's body or appearance.

People report grooming romantic partners more than grooming people they have other types of relationships with such as family members, friends, and strangers. Grooming is associated with increased relationship satisfaction, trust, and experience of family affection while growing up. People who groom, as opposed to touching each other without grooming, are perceived to be better potential parents, more in love with the person they have groomed and more caring and committed to them.​
YEAH! That whole chimpanzee thing kills the argument!

Okay wait.

Grooming is considered as affection.

Grooming is done in good intentions of whom is being groomed.

For example, chimpanzee grooms another chimpanzee in affection.

So you show affection to yourself by grooming yourself.

People who shave are narcissistic.

Barbers love everyone and especially those who pay him after he's done with his/her work.

All holy figures detest themselves intensely.

So is biting your nails insecurity of narcissism?

Sorry for gnawing off of nonsense.

redbaron

wow so true imo
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Some ideas are better kept within the mind.

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Barbers love everyone and especially those who pay him after he's done with his/her work.
lol Especially those who tip.

MsAnthropy_Indefatigably

The Black One
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

TriflinThomas

Bitch, don't kill my vibe...
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Hey, it takes a lot to post a personal opinion on here because a lot of time it gets torn to shreds by people who, I think, are just bored.

MsAnthropy_Indefatigably

The Black One
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Hey, it takes a lot to post a personal opinion on here because a lot of time it gets torn to shreds by people who, I think, are just bored.
Sorry, you could be right. It was just a strange way to take such a stand.
I had to voice my opinion as well.

pernoctator

a bearded robocop
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Barbers love everyone and especially those who pay him after he's done with his/her work.
I don't like where this is going.

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant
1. Philosophical - I don't think acceptance and change are mutually exclusive. To me acceptance is about understanding and facing the reality of a situation. You can understand and even appreciate that nature has developed you into a certain image, but you can change that. Hatred does not at all relate to that, unless your concept of hatred is "change" and love is "stagnant".

2. Natural - Looking at nature and natural patterns, hair seems intended for warmth in cold climates(some say it's a spiritual antenna). It seems natural to grow your hair during autumn and winter, and to shave it in spring. You hair has the ability to grow back, that means it was intended, or at least expected, to possibly be cut off.

3. Religious - Abrahamic Bible scripture arguably forbids shaving all of your facial hair, or letting it grow wildly, it should be maintained.

rachilde

Redshirt
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Everyone is skipping the obvious point here: shaving is an act of self-hatred in instances where the bare body has been socially constructed as the natural and desirable state of the human body. This can clearly be seen in the representation of the female body in art, movies, and other media like pornography. While men may be portrayed as having hair in any variety of places (face, armpits, pubic, legs, arms, etc.), the vast majority of depictions of women have involved bareness in areas where women naturally grow hair (face, armpits, pubic, legs, arms, etc.). Most artists and sculptors edited out 'undesirable' hair in their female subjects, thereby creating inaccurate representations of their actual female subjects. These depictions of women became so widespread during the Victorian era that men were often shocked to discover that women naturally had pubic hair. The idealization of the hairless female body as the most natural and desirable state of the female form has made shaving necessary for most women; however, the necessity of such shaving comes from a deep sense of shame towards the natural state of the female body. As such, most women who shave due to social pressures are doing so because they would be embarrassed to be caught with unshaved legs or armpits. The embarrassment comes from the fact that Western society conditions women to be ashamed of the natural state of their bodies which, usually, involves hair.

And, before anyone even bothers to mention this: French women, particularly Parisian women, are often just as fanatical about shaving as American women are.

Of course, the male body hasn't been given such restrictive constructions. Although a shaved face is often required at the workplace, the truth remains media representations of men often include representations of men with facial hair. If nothing else, the jolly Santa Claus is an instance where all people can gaze upon the face of a man who has let his facial hair grow wild. And, what's more, no one ever bothers to demean Santa for being slovenly or 'disgusting' because he has permitted his hair to grow to whatever length he desires. On the other side of the coin, it would be shocking for most people to see an illustration of Mr. and Ms. Claus on vacation and playing volleyball, with Ms. Claus raising her arms to expose two hearty patches of graying armpit hair. If Ms. Claus were a real woman, then she would be called any variety of demeaning names for failing to conform to the centuries-old ideal of the bare female body. If nothing else, she would be considered unclean.

Of course, if the presence of body hair means a lack of hygiene, then most men must be extremely unhygienic. And, of course, if the presence of body hair means laziness, then most men must be extraordinarily lazy. The truth remains that shaving hair to the point of bareness serves no biological or practical purpose for everyday women living typical lives. Which means that whatever force that compels women to shave is generally one of embarrassment--that it has become socially disagreeable to refuse to shave female armpits and legs. And, that, pretty much, is one context in which shaving is an act of self-hate.

pernoctator

a bearded robocop
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

The truth remains that shaving hair to the point of bareness serves no biological or practical purpose for everyday women living typical lives. Which means that whatever force that compels women to shave is generally one of embarrassment--that it has become socially disagreeable to refuse to shave female armpits and legs. And, that, pretty much, is one context in which shaving is an act of self-hate.
That's two narrow extremes on a spectrum. On the left end is people who only do things that strictly serve biological and practical purposes; on the right is self-haters; and the middle is people who aren't completely insane.

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Everyone is skipping the obvious point here: shaving is an act of self-hatred in instances where the bare body has been socially constructed as the natural and desirable state of the human body. This can clearly be seen in the representation of the female body in art, movies, and other media like pornography. While men may be portrayed as having hair in any variety of places (face, armpits, pubic, legs, arms, etc.), the vast majority of depictions of women have involved bareness in areas where women naturally grow hair (face, armpits, pubic, legs, arms, etc.). Most artists and sculptors edited out 'undesirable' hair in their female subjects, thereby creating inaccurate representations of their actual female subjects. These depictions of women became so widespread during the Victorian era that men were often shocked to discover that women naturally had pubic hair. The idealization of the hairless female body as the most natural and desirable state of the female form has made shaving necessary for most women; however, the necessity of such shaving comes from a deep sense of shame towards the natural state of the female body. As such, most women who shave due to social pressures are doing so because they would be embarrassed to be caught with unshaved legs or armpits. The embarrassment comes from the fact that Western society conditions women to be ashamed of the natural state of their bodies which, usually, involves hair.

And, before anyone even bothers to mention this: French women, particularly Parisian women, are often just as fanatical about shaving as American women are.

Of course, the male body hasn't been given such restrictive constructions. Although a shaved face is often required at the workplace, the truth remains media representations of men often include representations of men with facial hair. If nothing else, the jolly Santa Claus is an instance where all people can gaze upon the face of a man who has let his facial hair grow wild. And, what's more, no one ever bothers to demean Santa for being slovenly or 'disgusting' because he has permitted his hair to grow to whatever length he desires. On the other side of the coin, it would be shocking for most people to see an illustration of Mr. and Ms. Claus on vacation and playing volleyball, with Ms. Claus raising her arms to expose two hearty patches of graying armpit hair. If Ms. Claus were a real woman, then she would be called any variety of demeaning names for failing to conform to the centuries-old ideal of the bare female body. If nothing else, she would be considered unclean.

Of course, if the presence of body hair means a lack of hygiene, then most men must be extremely unhygienic. And, of course, if the presence of body hair means laziness, then most men must be extraordinarily lazy. The truth remains that shaving hair to the point of bareness serves no biological or practical purpose for everyday women living typical lives. Which means that whatever force that compels women to shave is generally one of embarrassment--that it has become socially disagreeable to refuse to shave female armpits and legs. And, that, pretty much, is one context in which shaving is an act of self-hate.
"I hate you so much !! Imma cut yo pubes !"

Sorlaize

Burning brightly
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant

This is "unnatural" and yet, he clearly loves himself and his value to society!

I shave because I really don't like the feeling of facial hairs on my hands, the pricking is nasty. Also shaving itself is painful.. so I use a trimmer and I don't shave regularly, I can leave it for a week.. it's cool. Not that I notice it at much. I don't even look in the mirror, and I spend all day on my PC

Not sure most guys would consider shaving as a defilement of their face, I mean, where would you think of what's "natural"? People aren't interested in evolution; they're interested in what's natural for society. People live entirely in the modern era; facial hair is some weird natural wonder that can be used for cosmetic purposes... I think. Maybe I'm only thinking about (visually) shallow people.

As for women doing their hair, maybe it's a lot more personal and about the self. What if a woman cuts a load of hair off? If I cut a lot of hair off it's something personal. If you often cut your hair off, and you're doing this continuously, I don't think that can be self-hatred. Maybe it starts like that but becomes normal. Definitely, I think it can be either way depending on how much you are conscious of it. I'm conscious of the types of tendencies.. long-term behaviours and traits that I am possibly losing by not visiting them. That's personal. If my appearance was that important, then it would have as much a meaning. And people certainly value their appearance.

(edit for below quote): I guess shame is very different from general social acceptance? What's affordable and "reasonable" isn't shameful. There are similar issues like lighter skin being "preferable" in India when interviewing for professional roles, whereby men use skin-whitening creams.

--

Everyone is skipping the obvious point here: shaving is an act of self-hatred in instances where the bare body has been socially constructed as the natural and desirable state of the human body. This can clearly be seen in the representation of the female body in art, movies, and other media like pornography. While men may be portrayed as having hair in any variety of places (face, armpits, pubic, legs, arms, etc.), the vast majority of depictions of women have involved bareness in areas where women naturally grow hair (face, armpits, pubic, legs, arms, etc.). Most artists and sculptors edited out 'undesirable' hair in their female subjects, thereby creating inaccurate representations of their actual female subjects. These depictions of women became so widespread during the Victorian era that men were often shocked to discover that women naturally had pubic hair. The idealization of the hairless female body as the most natural and desirable state of the female form has made shaving necessary for most women; however, the necessity of such shaving comes from a deep sense of shame towards the natural state of the female body. As such, most women who shave due to social pressures are doing so because they would be embarrassed to be caught with unshaved legs or armpits. The embarrassment comes from the fact that Western society conditions women to be ashamed of the natural state of their bodies which, usually, involves hair.

And, before anyone even bothers to mention this: French women, particularly Parisian women, are often just as fanatical about shaving as American women are.

Of course, the male body hasn't been given such restrictive constructions. Although a shaved face is often required at the workplace, the truth remains media representations of men often include representations of men with facial hair. If nothing else, the jolly Santa Claus is an instance where all people can gaze upon the face of a man who has let his facial hair grow wild. And, what's more, no one ever bothers to demean Santa for being slovenly or 'disgusting' because he has permitted his hair to grow to whatever length he desires. On the other side of the coin, it would be shocking for most people to see an illustration of Mr. and Ms. Claus on vacation and playing volleyball, with Ms. Claus raising her arms to expose two hearty patches of graying armpit hair. If Ms. Claus were a real woman, then she would be called any variety of demeaning names for failing to conform to the centuries-old ideal of the bare female body. If nothing else, she would be considered unclean.

Of course, if the presence of body hair means a lack of hygiene, then most men must be extremely unhygienic. And, of course, if the presence of body hair means laziness, then most men must be extraordinarily lazy. The truth remains that shaving hair to the point of bareness serves no biological or practical purpose for everyday women living typical lives. Which means that whatever force that compels women to shave is generally one of embarrassment--that it has become socially disagreeable to refuse to shave female armpits and legs. And, that, pretty much, is one context in which shaving is an act of self-hate.
Wow, awesome post!

BigApplePi

Banned
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

I'm sure all of you are aware of a condition called 'Wolf Syndrome' ->

(If very hairy faces disturb you, don't check out the image? )

I checked out the face and now am disturbed. Shall I leave it that way or seek psychoanalysis?

Luzian

Active Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Let that mustache free

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

This is "unnatural" and yet, he clearly loves himself and his value to society!
Good point.

koan

The Postal Poet
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Self presentation in artistic endeavour. I cut and colour my own hair. I've been told, by professional stylists, I've saved myself about $150 every 3 months. I don't know that how I look concerns me as far as what others think as it concerns me that it reflects how I see myself. It's a form of art, imo. I am really a 'going white, cotton haired misfit' but I can turn myself into an image of societal rebellion whilst still fitting within their rules of conformity... so the joke is on them. I've also encountered younger lovers who were so repulsed by their animal natures that they shaved themselves raw. It's a matter of self acceptance countered with artistic expression. yogurtexpress Active Member Re: Shaving is self-hatret lol pjoa09 dopaminergic Re: Shaving is self-hatret Self presentation in artistic endeavour. I cut and colour my own hair. I've been told, by professional stylists, I've saved myself about$150 every 3 months. I don't know that how I look concerns me as far as what others think as it concerns me that it reflects how I see myself. It's a form of art, imo. I am really a 'going white, cotton haired misfit' but I can turn myself into an image of societal rebellion whilst still fitting within their rules of conformity... so the joke is on them.

I've also encountered younger lovers who were so repulsed by their animal natures that they shaved themselves raw. It's a matter of self acceptance countered with artistic expression.
Gawd, it takes $25 (actually, way too many variables, I am saying two weeks) to shave a beard where you live? Makes me appreciate my third world country. I get off at$2.5 for a haircut or a shave.

snafupants

Prolific Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Yeah, I really hate myself because I shave occasionally. You caught me.

Hawkeye

Banned
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

I just got rid of my beard on a whim

On the plus side, it's taken an inch off my face and about 5 years off my visual age ^^

Prolific Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Do you hate yourself @own8ge. Sounds like a personal problem.

I shave and have short hair. I also have a huge ego so I am sure that I don't hate myself.

I guess I just realize that trimming away dead cells is healthy.

own8ge

Existential Nihilist
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Do you hate yourself @own8ge. Sounds like a personal problem.

I shave and have short hair. I also have a huge ego so I am sure that I don't hate myself.

I guess I just realize that trimming away dead cells is healthy.
STOP drawing conclusions out of nowhere and present them as facts! I have NEVER said that I hate myself. Nor did I say something that would evidence that. Just stop it. And idc about your opinion.

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Do you hate yourself @own8ge. Sounds like a personal problem.

I shave and have short hair. I also have a huge ego so I am sure that I don't hate myself.

I guess I just realize that trimming away dead cells is healthy.
I thought skin was dead cells

Ew. u skin yo self?

unasty.

Jennywocky

guud languager
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

STOP drawing conclusions out of nowhere and present them as facts! I have NEVER said that I hate myself. Nor did I say something that would evidence that. Just stop it. And idc about your opinion.
...says the guy who declares cutting one's hair to universally be self-hatred?

Hey, Thanks for the show.

Brontosaurie

Banned
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

most self-descriptive thing i read today.

Prolific Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

I thought skin was dead cells

Ew. u skin yo self?

unasty.
No, but I do bath and wash off my dead skin cells.

own8ge

Existential Nihilist
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

No, but I do bath and wash off my dead skin cells.
First understand what someone is saying, then think of an answer.

BloodCountess88

Guardian of the Gates
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

I have a head start then, I haven't been to a hair dresser in years! Since a cut that went wrong. I do trim my hair to keep it healthy. My hair is down to my butt, so it's pretty long.

It's not hard to wash or style. I don use heat nor style it nor do anything to it other than was and put conditioner, which I even use cheap products on.

Nails I keep short, I shave every 2 weeks or so.

Solitaire U.

Last of the V-8 Interceptors
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Actually, I like to greet the morning with cold, razor-sharp steel on my face.

Other than the social perks which I'm forbidden to mention, I like being clean-shaven for various reasons. I think it provides a nice recurring link to my smooth-skinned youth. I also like the refreshing feeling of a clean shave.

Also, speaking as a person who used to drag around the weight of very long hair and a full, unkempt beard, I much prefer the lighter feeling of being clean cut. No hair in my eyes, beard in my mouth, etc. It's simply a cleaner, lighter, freer state of being. I remember reading something Lenny Kravitz said many years ago when asked why he cut off his dreadlocks. Something to the effect of "All that extra mass was just dragging me down."

I really don't care what nature intended. Actually, I don't think nature intends anything at all. It's just a crude state of existence that we're free to refine. Clean-cut = refinement.

Marshall

Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

It's natural for humans to group up as a species, it keeps us alive, strength in numbers. The only way for this to work is we work as one unit, hence why people follow trends. As a mass society, we turn these into laws and culture. Shaving is only a part of our culture, to fit in with the rest of society.

Ink

Well-Known Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

own8ge, wearing clothes is self-hatred. Stop wearing clothes or you hate yourself. You dont wanna hide your true self.

Ex-User (9062)

Prolific Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant
Are you two twins? You look strikingly similar. I bet you get that a lot.

Back on the subject:
Even animals cultivate themselves according to their possibilities.
The problem should be to what extend humans attend themselves.
When cultivation turns into body modification, it is essentially self-denial.
This can be motivated by two main desires: self-destruction and self-expansion.

Active Member
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

"Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)"
If going in against nature is an act of hatred, then being human must be an act of immense hatred.

I think, if you like something you take good care of it. Wanting to improve on something does not mean the thing is bad, only that it can be better and that you will appreciate having it that way. To not take care of yourself, to not give your appearance proper attention would be an act of self-hatred.

If, on the other hand, you think having not shaven and to have very long hair is totally radical, then shaving it would be an act of conformism or cowardice, not self-hate.

Of course, self-hate - thinking you're not good enough - might be a good reason to conform to culturally determined standards, but I doubt that the self-hate will cease when that standard is reached (if it can be reached). Probably, it will just hysterically turn on some other point that is not optimal, or turn into doubt whether the standard is actually reached / fear that it is still not enough or cannot be maintained.

Variform

Banned
Re: Shaving is self-hatret

Shaving and cutting your hair is self hatred against your true/natural self.
(If you change the way, nature "supposed" to make you look like; You don't accept yourself as you are; therefor self-hatred.)

RULE: Community rules and expectations are to be seen as irrelevant
I am sure there is a logical fallacy here. But I can't tell which one.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/