• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Self Confidence and Irrelevancy

MissQuote

kickin' at a tin can
Local time
Today 3:44 PM
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,169
---
I've been thinking on the interrelationship between these to things, self confidence and irrelevancy, within myself for the past day or two, no, a lot longer than that actually, I just only pegged the two words as the labels for my thoughts the past day or so. Including, of course, thinking about whether these are typical INTP attitudes.

To sum it up, I'm pretty confident in my competency, or ability to become competent of whatever, but I find most of my opinions and ideas ultimately close to irrelevant.

Isn't that a paradox in normal thinking though? Shouldn't feeling irrelevant mean one must feel low self worth? Well, if you were feeling it I guess. But that wasn't what I was meaning.

I am often surprised at how confident people are of themselves and their opinions, at how they seem to attach their opinions so much to their confidence. Like their worth is measured in part by how strong they come across and how important they make their point of view be understood, even when they do not have a clue what they are talking about!

I don't really find forming a strong opinion, or entering with one, to be of utmost importance in any sort of intellectual conversation. Now at the same time, I have had my emotions riled up terribly in several recent conversations, the worst time was when I was trying to actually express a certain idea, just for fun in the beginning, and it turned into an argument about how I wasn't understanding the definition of the word "science" with the other person refusing to try to be abstract in understanding me at all all the while telling me I am wrong. The thing that got to me the most was I was actually trying to make a point that resembled an opinion for once and it was being dismissed a s wrong without the other party trying to understand at all.

I think I need to bring this back around to where ever it was I was going with is.

So what are your ideas on, I don't know, anything I rambled about I guess, but mostly where confidence and irrelevancy fits into the INTP personality. Also as compared to other personalities.

Let's Edit for some clarity-

(the above is the thought scrambling that happens after a long chaotic day cooped up with ones whole family and then half a bottle of Shiraz to unwind at the end in the quiet)

-I don't find worth (as displayed by feelings of confidence) to need to have anything to do with whether anything one has to say is irrelevant.

-But, most everyone else I meet seems to need to feel relevant in order to have confidence and worth, evidenced often in the need to push an opinion even on inane subjects and especially on important subjects.

-I find the process of formulating and idea or opinion far more important that actually giving one, once a conclusion has been made about a subject it seems mostly irrelevant, certainly the bother of giving an opinion is far less interesting than listening to others opinions.

-My confidence lies in my ability to take in and properly sort all of the information, not in the ability to sway others to understanding it as I understand it.

-I can't find any reason real why being relevant in any way should have anything to do with whether a person is happy or confident or feels good about themselves of there ideas. I can understand that other people feel the need to be relevant, but I don't understand why they feel this way.

-At the same time I have noticed a tendency to get quite annoyed, more than I should, when I do decide to share an idea, making it possibly relevant by that alone, and it is dismissed because the other party did not attempt to understand it before deciding it was wrong. Whether or not my idea was wrong is not as important as whether or not it was understood before being decided on as being wrong.

-Now I am talking about myself too much.

-Wondering how the interplay between confidence and irrelevancy/relevancy plays out in the thoughts of other INTP's.

-Wondering how it plays out for other types.

-I think I've cleaned this up a bit better now? Does what the hell I was on about make more sense now?
 

Ptah

Deity
Local time
Today 5:44 PM
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
53
---
Location
Chicago
irrelevant to whom, in reference/toward to what?
 

MissQuote

kickin' at a tin can
Local time
Today 3:44 PM
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,169
---
The grand world as a whole?
 

Ptah

Deity
Local time
Today 5:44 PM
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
53
---
Location
Chicago
Why concern yourself with that? Why need your thoughts be of relevance to "the grand world as a whole" in order to be of any worth/relevance to you?
 

MissQuote

kickin' at a tin can
Local time
Today 3:44 PM
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,169
---
My thoughts are of great relevance and worth to me.
 

Ptah

Deity
Local time
Today 5:44 PM
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
53
---
Location
Chicago
And yet your basis for relevance (of your ideas so as to call them "close to irrelevant" in the OP) is "the grand world as a whole"?
There's the paradox, it seems.
 

MissQuote

kickin' at a tin can
Local time
Today 3:44 PM
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,169
---
The entire OP is kind of a mess. I probably should have mapped it out better and bullet pointed it.
 

P.H.

Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.
Local time
Today 11:44 PM
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
178
---
Location
The Netherlands
The more irrelevant something is, the more confident I feel about it and the more relevant it gets, the more I lose my confidence.

But I think that's just a fear of failure.

I do think there is a rough distinction between the stuff INTP's think is relevant and the stuff other people think of as relevant. And we base our confidence on different things. My guess is that goes for any type though.
 

Smooch

INFP in denial
Local time
Today 6:44 PM
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
212
---
Why concern yourself with that? Why need your thoughts be of relevance to "the grand world as a whole" in order to be of any worth/relevance to you?

I thought that's what she was getting at, unless I misunderstood...
 

Psychedelatry

Redshirt
Local time
Today 11:44 PM
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
8
---
If you're looking to balance how relevant the "grand world" finds your opinions with how relevant they are to you, then you need to project them with confidence. The kind of confidence that you refer to others doing even when wrong. Opinions can and will be challenged but not all opinions can be supported by reason. So if you want to express an opinion not supported by logical reasoning then it must be supported by your own confidence in the opinion. This is difficult for INTPs, or at least I've had difficulty with this.

Does this help at all? I had a bit of difficulty trying to understand what you were asking for...
 

MissQuote

kickin' at a tin can
Local time
Today 3:44 PM
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
1,169
---
I edited my OP, to try to make more sense.
 

Psychedelatry

Redshirt
Local time
Today 11:44 PM
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
8
---
I find confidence can sometimes depend on the relevancy, to other people, of something I claim, believe or argue. If others find it irrelevant I may take a knock to my self confidence (in a social respect) but not the confidence in my position/belief.
I believe virtually everyone looks to others for approval in certain respects.

Also, confidence is self perpetuating, in a social respect. Say something confidently and others are more likely to believe in it (it's relevancy), this gives the 'sayer' a confidence boost.

...Just a couple of my thoughts resulting from your post.
 

GYX_Kid

randomly floating abyss built of bricks
Local time
Today 11:44 PM
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
943
---
It has a lot to do with the fact that many people derive their self-worth, to varying degrees, from external feedback and forces. So if coming across as assured and backing an "opinion" helps to garner feedback, that would be a means in which the person would gain that support.

If some of your ideas are not just presented communicably enough but also a little too complex/theoretical/ingenious/interesting for most people, why care about their opinions of it?

I once recently presented an idea that was somewhat convoluted. The first response I got was "....WHAT?!," then the ones that followed after were "I see what he's getting at. *says something else about it*" and then there were some questions afterward.

Now I didn't -need- the feedback to reaffirm the idea of mine really, but it was interesting on some levels to put it out there into a pool and see what happened.
 
Top Bottom