Kormak :
"e_e as in most things the western mindset dragged mankind kicking and screaming out of the dark ages."
Scorpio:
"I know people who were treated as you described mankind being treated. They hate learning so much that they keep well away from it. So if that was true, I would then conclude that (a) mankind hates learning and has become even more ignorant than in the Dark Ages, and (b) the Western mindset was the cause of such incredible ignorance."
Inex:
Scorpio, what do you mean by "people who were treated as you described mankind being treated."?
I was talking to a female friend I know. She's religious and likes to host events for older people and do things for people. There are also a lot of learning opportunities for women these days. A lot of women like them. So I asked her if she went to any of those as well.
She replied that her parents were religious and wanted her to study. They would force her to study. She ended up becoming so turned off by the treatment, that she won't attend lectures, not even ones aimed at women. Won't even consider it.
Insofar as being "dragged out of the dark ages kicking and screaming" and hating learning - well, I don't think those two things are equivalent. Generally, people see the "dark ages" as a mindset of old school, outdated traditionalism.
From what I learned about the Dark Ages, the history of the UK was that the Romans ruled, and did a lot that a lot of people liked.
The Romans set up bath-houses, and roads, and aqueducts that brought clean water. So everyone was a lot healthier. Lots less plagues.
The Roman soldiers were brutal. Everyone was afraid of them. So they were very good at keeping the peace. So a lot less crime, which meant a lot more trade, and a lot more money.
But the Romans weren't big on science. They sacked the Greek Island of Rhodes, which was a big centre of Greek learning.
Then when Rome fell, the Romans stopped coming. Lots of laments were written about the time, as if the sun had gone and was never coming back.
Everything would have fallen into disrepair. Wars started. There were lots of wars between areas in England and in Europe.
Then the Muslims started sharing their manuscripts with Xians, first in Toledo in Spain, then along the Silk Road where it connected to Italy. Manuscripts of Greek science, Hindu science and Muslim science were used to set up the University of Oxford, and kept being shared with European Xians for the next few hundred years.
Along the way, all sorts of things were learned. E.G. after the Black Plague, there were efforts in the UK to make better sewage facilities.
According to Bettany Hughes, a historian, the Scientific Revolution was actually a period of a few hundred years where science was slowly increased, thanks to all the science coming from the Muslims, and Europeans learning to do things themselves.
So it was more like someone else provided your technology. Then one day, that person stopped coming. Then everything got rebuilt slowly.
Western culture has thrown a lot of different ethnicities and religions together, and encouraged them all to express themselves and follow whatever philosophy they felt like following. Obviously, that's led to some strife, but the general western mindset appears to be that we should learn to accept people for who they are and/or want to be.
Additionally, there's been some necessary changes in our mindset that has helped us adapt to changes in technology, population, and diversity.
Sure. But in the UK, the Celts came. Then the Angles, Saxons and Jutes came. Then the Romans came. Then the Vikings came. The Danes came. Then the Normans came.
Also, later on, the Hugenots came.
Also, a lot of Frency people. Mr Darcy's family name is short for "D' Arcy", a well-known French name. Lots of French names in English culture.
England was a melting pot for 2,000 years.
Then you had all the different religious views. The early Celts were polytheists. So were the Romans and the Vikings. But they all worshipped different gods (similar gods, but with different names).
Then when Xianity came in, first there was Celtic Xianity. Then there was Catholic Xianity. Then Protestant Xianity, which was actually many different denominations.
Then some religious killings of Catholics, then Protestants, until Elizabeth I managed to establish a compromise where both Catholics and Protestants lived in the same country without lots and lots of government-sanctioned killings.
Also, Jews came with William I in 1066. Then they got persecuted. Then told to leave or be killed. Then introduced on the sly by Cromwell a few centuries later. Then eventually accepted, to the point where a Jew was the chief advisor to Queen Victoria (Benjamin Disraeli).
So the UK has had a lot of ethnicities and religious denominations, and a lot of integration.
So I think that what we are seeing now, has been happening for a long time.
I don't think it is that people who are "stuck in the dark ages" so to speak, hate to learn, but I think it is that they hate to change. There's a difference. Some of the best scientists and mathematicians absolutely hate new philosophies that challenge age-old knowledge.
Yes. There's a lot of opposition to change in science and even in maths. People get used to stuff.
... but If I invent AI sex dolls and porn <_< all the Beckies and Stacies are belong to the good genes lads and the incels won't rise up!
