Schizoid Treatment

[Cognisant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid

Yeah it's this thread again, so raise a hand if you think you're crazy, and lets discuss the various treatments/therapies, if indeed having this sort of personality should be seen as a disorder in the first place.

Personally I don't think I'm crazy, or even dysfunctional for that matter (I'm probably a medium-high functioning schizoid) but I recognise some serious weaknesses in myself and the results of working around these weaknesses in my everyday lifestyle.

Here's a video demonstrating schizoid behaviour.

Spoiler

YouTube - Schizoid

 

[Anthile]

I don't think SPD is treated unless you really want it. Whether or not this really is a disorder is highly debatable since normal people usually can't even tell you're schizoid and for most people have it, it's not a big deal because there is no degree of suffering in most cases. Also, you should do something about the 'probably'. Self-diagnosis is not very helpful when it comes to personality disorders and to the layman they all look very similar - if it doesn't make you a hypochondriac.

And that video is just weird. I don't identify it at all, despite being extreme SPD.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I'm schizotypal, but in no way a full blown schizoid. I think the difference is actually having preference for the extremities of the lifestyle.

 

[cheese]

Is the track a bastardisation of the theme from The Last Samurai? Sounds like it.

 

[Cognisant]

1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
My family members sometimes think I hate them, which isn't so, I care about my mother but she's an emotionally abusive nutcase a times (almost weekly), I actually get along okay with my Dad (insufferable though he may be), while most everyone else I haven't talked to in at least a year.

2. almost always chooses solitary activities
This, the forum, is my only non-solitary activity.

3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
Don't even go there.

4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
My hobbies are philosophy, psychology & AI theory.
Apparently they don't count as "activities" because I'm not doing anything.

5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
Irl none at all.
On the forum there's Adaire, Lor, Melkor and Auburn, but I'm hardly in regular contact with any of them except Adaire, who even then I haven't been in much contact with recently.

6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
I like to appear competent to my co-workers, I'm very conscious about that, but their occasional praise never gets a reaction out of me, it just never seems appropriate to do anything but acknowledge that they've said something to me, as it would be rude to ignore them.

7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect
I (gently) call my mother a hypocrite for crying at movies, and it's a strain to sound enthused when (for example) someone's talking about some good fortune they've received, it's not that I'm unhappy about their good fortune, it just doesn’t register anything with me emotionally.

Also, you should do something about the 'probably'. Self-diagnosis is not very helpful when it comes to personality disorders and to the layman they all look very similar - if it doesn't make you a hypochondriac.

And that video is just weird. I don't identify it at all, despite being extreme SPD.

I said "probably" because I'm self conscious about the possibility of being a hypochondriac, and considering my applicability to the relevant criteria, let alone how I relate to the video (which is based on seven months of research), I think considering myself only moderately-to-slightly schizoid to be a very fair assessment.

Tell me, were you diagnosed as having "extreme SPD"?

 

[hazelbite]

1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
My family members sometimes think I hate them, which isn't so, I care about my mother but she's an emotionally abusive nutcase a times (almost weekly), I actually get along okay with my Dad (insufferable though he may be), while most everyone else I haven't talked to in at least a year.

2. almost always chooses solitary activities
This, the forum, is my only non-solitary activity.

3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
Don't even go there.

4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
My hobbies are philosophy, psychology & AI theory.
Apparently they don't count as "activities" because I'm not doing anything.

5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
Irl none at all.
On the forum there's Adaire, Lor, Melkor and Auburn, but I'm hardly in regular contact with any of them except Adaire, who even then I haven't been in much contact with recently.

6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
I like to appear competent to my co-workers, I'm very conscious about that, but their occasional praise never gets a reaction out of me, it just never seems appropriate to do anything but acknowledge that they've said something to me, as it would be rude to ignore them.

7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect
I (gently) call my mother a hypocrite for crying at movies, and it's a strain to sound enthused when (for example) someone's talking about some good fortune they've received, it's not that I'm unhappy about their good fortune, it just doesn’t register anything with me emotionally.


I said "probably" because I'm self conscious about the possibility of being a hypochondriac, and considering my applicability to the relevant criteria, let alone how I relate to the video (which is based on seven months of research), I think considering myself only moderately-to-slightly schizoid to be a very fair assessment.

Tell me, were you diagnosed as having "extreme SPD"?

also is asexual

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Seriously, just because we don't run around advertising our goods don't mean we're not up for sale. Everyone knows the good stuff is kept in the back.

 

[Cognisant]

...

I'm sorry, What?

 

[kantor1003]

What are your criteria for calling someone a friend? What criteria did you have for the ones you mentioned as friends of yours on this forum? Why don't you have anyone in real life, but do have it here? Shyness? Cause you seem to crave it on some, if not infinitely small, level

 

[EyeSeeCold]

...

I'm sorry, What?

People think that just because you aren't raging with hormones and trying to seek out partners you are either incapable of being in a relationship or you refuse to be in one.

 

[Fukyo]

The fact that this is considered a disorder makes me more misanthropic, if that was even possible.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

^seconded

 

[Adymus]

I'm schizotypal, but in no way a full blown schizoid. I think the difference is actually having preference for the extremities of the lifestyle.

You? Schizotypal? I don't think I buy that.


Needs maor delusions of grandeur.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

So I'm reading the wiki link in the OP and thinking "Why can't more people be like this?"

Never mind whether or not it's a disorder, how to we spread it? I'm thinking it's time we do some more experiments in Guatamalen insane asylums.

 

[Agent Intellect]

1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
That's not me. I enjoy having close relationships, even if I'm socially retarded and the only way I can show 'affection' is by being an asshole and having relationships built on cutting each other down.


2. almost always chooses solitary activities
For the most part, but it's not always by choice. I enjoy having a lot of time alone, but I don't shun periods of small social get-togethers (any more than like five people becomes overstimulating).


3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
Not true for me, but I'm good at separating sexual interest and intellectual interest - I don't treat every woman like I want to bang them and every guy like I'm in competition with them, and I'm able to treat people like human beings first. A lot of people seem to have trouble separating sexual interests from the way they treat other people.


4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
I have numerous interests. Not sure if it counts as activities, but I like reading, listening to music, going for walks (usually alone), writing (well, I like coming up with stories, but the actual writing can sometimes be a drag).


5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
I don't care for most of my relatives. I'd actually prefer talking to someone not related to me.


6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
Appears, yes. I do actually feel feelings, even if I don't recognize, dignify, or outwardly show them. I enjoy being recognized for things I do well, but I don't actively seek praise.


7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect
Once again, I don't often display emotions, or know what to do with them when they rear their ugly heads, but that doesn't mean I don't feel them.

----------------------------------

I often wonder whether people actually think they have personality disorders or some sort of mental illness, or if they just wish they did. One of the biggest myths that seem to crop up around here is that intelligence and insanity are equivalent or at least correlated; INTP's, favoring intellectual pursuits and judging themselves based on their mental acuity will desire to see aspects of intelligence in themselves. INTP's, also favoring uniqueness, seem to get the idea that being "crazy" or having unorthodox thinking patterns will make them all that much more unique than 'normal' people.

I'm confident in this assessment because it's something I often think. I used to hear about different personality disorders and attempt to fit myself into it; I began seeing this bias in myself and realized that I had a strange desire to have something like SPD, or schizotypal disorder, or even Aspergers, because then I wouldn't have to face my biggest fear of all:

I'm nothing but an average intelligence white male from an average working class neighborhood with an average temperament; I'm not a larger than life character with the type of personality that will be remembered by anyone who meets me; I'll never have a fascinating or unique life story about overcoming the personal adversity of a strange mental/personality condition; I don't have any interesting quirks or eccentricities that people will marvel at when they read about 'the genius' who discovered the grand unification theory (something I definitely plan on getting around to one of these days).

 

[EyeSeeCold]

You? Schizotypal? I don't think I buy that.


Needs maor delusions of grandeur.

Oops. Mixed schizoid with schizotypal and schizotypal with schizophrenia. >.<

One of the biggest myths that seem to crop up around here is that intelligence and insanity are equivalent or at least correlated; INTP's, favoring intellectual pursuits and judging themselves based on their mental acuity will desire to see aspects of intelligence in themselves. INTP's, also favoring uniqueness, seem to get the idea that being "crazy" or having unorthodox thinking patterns will make them all that much more unique than 'normal' people.

Not intelligence, but genius.

 

[kantor1003]

I often wonder whether people actually think they have personality disorders or some sort of mental illness, or if they just wish they did. One of the biggest myths that seem to crop up around here is that intelligence and insanity are equivalent or at least correlated; INTP's, favoring intellectual pursuits and judging themselves based on their mental acuity will desire to see aspects of intelligence in themselves. INTP's, also favoring uniqueness, seem to get the idea that being "crazy" or having unorthodox thinking patterns

etc.

Well, I think you are correct. I can at least recognize that in myself. Not with any disorder particularly, but I'm generally aspiring to be "unique", unorthodox, the mad genius - or just genius (I'll take what I get :P), or brilliant at something.. not just good, but something really special. Ironically, like everyone else. This fixation upon the non-ordinary, the brilliant, is something I don't think is found too often in geniuses. It's just us normals. I haven't taken the step of admitting my normality like you (perhaps thats your way of striving for uniqueness? By admitting your "normality"? :P I almost consider it an abnormality for someone to admit their non-uniqueness.), I just don't think I'm ready to give up yet.. :/ Oh, countdown until some "special, "ultra-untelligent", "thoughtful" individual comes in and starts to scrutinize the word "normal".

 

[Cognisant]

Well so far this has been a complete failure.

Personally I don't think I'm crazy, or even dysfunctional for that matter but I recognise some serious weaknesses in myself and the results of working around these weaknesses in my everyday lifestyle.

Ignoring the word "schizoid", this is what I wanted to address, specifically that I have great difficulty engaging with people in a non-purposeful way, it's like as if I was a monkey and I couldn't nitpick (which is very important to them socially) or some Asimovian robot that'll reply when spoken to or when it has information to convey, but otherwise remains silent.

Now this is a problem for me because I work in sales, so I'm regularly forced to interact with complete strangers and my inability to engage with them emotionally is somewhat crippling, for example someone will be buying a printer and I've already directed them to the one that meets their needs, but they're having difficulty deciding if or not they're willing to actually buy it, mainly because several hundred dollars isn't something to take lightly, but then all they really need is some reassurance, which I'm practically incapable of giving.

There is of course the occasional exception, times when I've been able to empathise with the customer as I spoke to them and the difference is amazing, after the subtlest changes in tone and expression I'm suddenly able to have this wonderful smooth rapport with them, and I think this is what everyone else does almost instinctively... I envy that.

 

[Mello]

I want to find a field like that in the video.

 

[Da Blob]

Bah Humbug! There is no such thing as Schizoid Personality Disorder...
It is not going to be in the New edition of the Psychologist's bible - the DSM-V

http://www.anythingtostopthepain.com/dsm-v-changes-personality-disorders/

 

[snafupants]

the question you should ask yourself with the putative title of SPD is whether it is causing problems in your life and whether you are happy, as trite as that sounds. if there is no impairment (e.g., social, emotional, occupational) and you are having a good time with your life, full speed ahead. SPD has always been a misnomer for me: it causes little if any impairment and, thus, is relatively resilient to medical interventions. antisocial personality, conduct disorder, and bipolar disorder, for instance, are veritable disorders because they cause problems to self and society and the people, on the whole, are unhappy. SPD - although a healthy majority of this forum probably has it - is benign and should be phased out of dsm nomenclature and attention. as an aside, its virtually impossible to look at because the SPD folk seldom frequent treatment facilities; this is probably the case because of reticence and relative lack of pain.

 

[cheese]

That's more or less what I was thinking, snafu - the sad music in the video isn't really going to "send a message" to anyone but those who aren't schizoid/some other related thing, so what's the point, it won't change anything, it'll just make you sadder that there actually are people out there you can't emotionally connect with! Wow! Well blooey to that, they don't want it, don't bother giving it! There are lots of people who are genuinely in pain from being in unwanted isolation; focus your efforts on those.

^ my reaction to the video, anyway. Probably a little overly strong, since when I first found out about schizoids I was extremely down for a while (do you know there's a schizoid forum? wtf, I don't think that even makes sense), but then realised it's just pointless and retarded.

*edit
Also, yes I realise you weren't exactly on my side of the island with your comment, but the salient points were in line - namely, genuinely SPD people are fine on their own.

Although I can't help noting that some schizoids DO seek treatment of their own accord; apparently there are those with an overwhelming desire to connect but who find it impossible to do so with real people. Because these feelings are so often concealed/barely visible to the patients themselves, except after extensive therapy, it's unclear if there's a genuine, suppressed problem in all diagnosed with this or if some are simply different - but otherwise healthy.

 

[cheese]

Also, worship of AI's honesty, as always.

(I know the emoticon looks like it's hamming it up, but I mean it sincerely.)

 

[Beat Mango]

I do have many treatments and methods to deal with schizoid (provided you're not a complete basket case...). Unsurprisingly, the main thing to do is become more extroverted, ie, engage with the "real world". This involves two steps: first, recognising that there is a world of shared values, social assumptions, society goals etc that most people participate in, wittingly or unwittingly. Second, you have to choose to engage with that world, to some degree at least. In the example of your printer sales, for example, it's recognising that this person, this potential customer has a need in this world to do some sort of printing. Sounds simple, right? It's damn simple. But this is not an intellectual exercise. It is very very simple in theory, but the hard part for us is to actually stand there and focus on this person and their printer. That takes will - you have to want it. It's a matter of keeping your head in this "real world" long enough (eg, keeping it in your thoughts, focusing on its stimuli) so that the recognition of this person's need is instinctive and automatic.

Do you get what I'm saying? You can also imply from this, rightly, that it helps to have momentum. After having your head in this real world for some time, the proximity of the memories of past events will be closer and it'll be easier to re-engage with this world. After a while, you may even feel part of it.

Anyway that's an intro but I've got more methods, treatments etc, in fact I could probably write something substantive but now's not a good time, I'm freaking tired. But yeah I just made a decision a few months ago that I'm not going to live the schizoid life. Unless you're a hermit, it just doesn't fit with society at all and makes life damn difficult. As long as you're in any sort of proximity to humans, they will demand some degree of extroversion.

 

[Cognisant]

Do you get what I'm saying? You can also imply from this, rightly, that it helps to have momentum. After having your head in this real world for some time, the proximity of the memories of past events will be closer and it'll be easier to re-engage with this world. After a while, you may even feel part of it.

Yes, thank you Dr Phil.
(it's a joke, don't take it too seriously, that was a nice try)

The problem isn't that I'm not paying attention, the problem is that I can't "put myself in their shoes" so to speak, well I can rationally, I have absolutely no trouble directing them through the various options to the machine that'll best fit their needs; that's easy for me because it's rational, where as closing the sale which involves empathising with them so I know how to undermine their emotional blocks, is very difficult for me, because I don't think emotively so when I "put myself in their shoes" I still have no idea what they're feeling because if they were me they wouldn't be feeling anything, at least not consciously anyway.

Edit: The video is a different scenario altogether, the problem isn't that he's unable to empathise with her (although that's a factor) the problem is that he's being forced into a situation where he's expected to evaluate his emotions and give a emotive response (as soon as she shows up) cue panic and defence mechanisms (he literally chokes).

 

[Minuend]

I often wonder whether people actually think they have personality disorders or some sort of mental illness, or if they just wish they did. One of the biggest myths that seem to crop up around here is that intelligence and insanity are equivalent or at least correlated; INTP's, favoring intellectual pursuits and judging themselves based on their mental acuity will desire to see aspects of intelligence in themselves. INTP's, also favoring uniqueness, seem to get the idea that being "crazy" or having unorthodox thinking patterns will make them all that much more unique than 'normal' people. [...]

Or a scapegoat to blame all our failures.

How can we, such intelligent, capable people, be unable to do the most mundane tasks like talk to other people or put on our sweaters the right way?

(I don't know enough about schiziodness to have an opinion whether it's legit or not).

 

[AlisaD]

I'm not a big fan of labelling anything as a disorder, so funnily enough, this is the first time I heard about this thing, even though I did fit the description pretty well when I was younger. Except for the sex part

Anyway, I no longer exhibit most of the symptoms, and as far as I can tell, what got me out of it was martial arts.

Basically, when I was younger other people and most of the wold just didn't feel very real, they were mostly like shadows around me, it was very hard to concentrate on anything that existed outside of my head. But then I started doing martial arts and things that were outside of my head started kicking me in the said head, which motivated me greatly to pay more attention

Seriously though, I really do think it helped - there are few things in life I enjoy more then a good fight, and you can not have a good fight without feeling, understanding and respecting your opponent. Unfortunately Cog, if you're just looking for a quick fix to boost your sales results, this is quite unlikely to work, it took me years to actually acknowledge the existence of an opponent other then myself.

It was worth it, though.

 

[Auburn]

...I had a strange desire to have something like SPD, or schizotypal disorder, or even Aspergers, because then I wouldn't have to face my biggest fear of all:

I'm nothing but an average intelligence white male from an average working class neighborhood with an average temperament; I'm not a larger than life character with the type of personality that will be remembered by anyone who meets me...

Very interesting observation. Excellent post A.I. Yes, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm just an average-intelligence human being with no extraordinary talent. << I've also come to realize that even being INTP really doesn't give much of an 'edge' at intelligence in itself - but instead just a disposition to over-thinking, for having a restless mind.

However, it's interesting..
I also have to say that humans, just as they are - with no extraordinary talent in particular, are capable of loads more potential than many realize. An ordinary egg can hold enormous weight on top of it but only if positioned properly.

Methinks that the humans that have achieved the most in this world, and many of the most famous names in history were just ordinary people who used their personality/natural-assets and environment to the fullest. [a concept from the book Outliers by Malcom Gladwell]

And in contrast many brilliant and extraordinarily gifted humans have probably come and gone without leaving much of a record or achievement behind.

 

[Reluctantly]

Welp, I'm basically a schizoid. It fits way better than any personality type or other label. For me, I just kind of over time lost interest in most people. Most people are interested in things like football games, loud music, drinking, promiscuous sex, etc., for fun. After trying to want to enjoy those things as well and trying to please friends and family in this way, after awhile I realized I wasn't going to enjoy those things and that I find most people, from my perspective, really boring, obnoxiously loud, and stupid. And I have learned how to fake all of my emotions and avoid these activities as much as possible so that no one gets on my case about anything. I have no idea why this is the case. I have had a counselor suggest Asperger's might be the reason and I won't go there because there is a lot of controversy over that in this day and age.

But I'm thinking Schizoid might just be another kind of personality and not necessarily a disorder. It's not really harmful. It seems more like conditioning where a person doesn't find human relations very fulfilling (in fact painful and harmful) so they fill and enjoy their time with other activities. It's more of a self-defense mechanism and I bet it would easily go away if the schizoid person finds other people that they have common interests with and don't have to worry about projecting a certain image or having to go along with something boring to keep the social police away .

It's not a big deal. Plus if you spend a lot of time learning about the world instead of socializing, you obtain a certain kind of intelligence that most people consider above average and you are better able to rely on yourself instead of on other people. Considering how awful people have treated one another throughout history and how awful they still do treat one another, one might question whether a person who is seen as schizoid is disordered or prioritizing their lives to suit more prospective interests.

 

[TheHmmmm]

Very interesting observation. Excellent post A.I. Yes, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm just an average-intelligence human being with no extraordinary talent. << I've also come to realize that even being INTP really doesn't give much of an 'edge' at intelligence in itself - but instead just a disposition to over-thinking, for having a restless mind.

However, it's interesting..
I also have to say that humans, just as they are - with no extraordinary talent in particular, are capable of loads more potential than many realize. An ordinary egg can hold enormous weight on top of it but only if positioned properly.

Methinks that the humans that have achieved the most in this world, and many of the most famous names in history were just ordinary people who used their personality/natural-assets and environment to the fullest. [a concept from the book Outliers by Malcom Gladwell]

And in contrast many brilliant and extraordinarily gifted humans have probably come and gone without leaving much of a record or achievement behind.

I think you vastly overestimate the intelligence of "average". It's never good to have a superiority complex, but holy hell people of "average" intelligence are frustrating. It's very easy to spot the intellectual laziness of this type of person. It's not that they're dumb, it's that they don't give enough of a shit to think just for a second. Even slightly above-average is refreshing.

I can't think of a single person on this forum whose intelligence I would label "average" or "nothing special"

As far as SPD, I've heard conflicting accounts of what it actually is, but the recommendation for treatment is the same: "intensive" therapy to rehabilitate or primarily instill social desire.

That being said, SPD is one of the few disorders where the person can be perfectly content with their life and not actually disrupt society. This is why I don't really consider it to be a disorder and hence don't consider treatment to be an imperative.

 

[cheese]

I think 'average intelligence' often doesn't refer to the actual average, but the averagely intelligent person. It's a reference to the distribution of the upper end of the population, the 50% and above. People who fit into this segment tend to ignore those who don't, at least as it relates to measures of ''intelligence", since a certain basic amount is required to be part of normal life (at least what is considered 'normal' by those of average intelligence and above). To graduate school, get through college, get a decent job etc generally requires more than those on the lower end of the curve can manage, and these are elements of life considered 'normal' by the upper end (hence why things like illness, financial problems, location etc are often seen as deterrents to a 'normal' education).

So when Auburn says he's of 'average intelligence', it may make sense in relation to other people who are of above-average-intelligence on a global scale.

Basically it's like saying he has above average g, but is only moderately smart - 'intelligence' as in the general factor, and 'intelligence' as a descriptor of superior intellect are often conflated I think. Not sure if this is what he means, but that's how I usually see these statements.

(Not sure if this works out mathematically)

 

[Auburn]

...my brain was itching all yesterday after I posted that because I wanted to edit/delete it so badly but was away from internet. >>

Cheese, you're right on - and thanks Momo for catching that; you're technically correct since I didn't clarity. So basically what I meant was that I would consider myself "an average geek" or something to that effect. The world is actually full of people who are "smart" but not really "genius". (if we borrow the IQ test for a bit, though I'm aware of it's flaws, this would be maybe IQ range 105-135)

I mean just looking at our cell phones which grow thinner each year, our ever evolving technology, advanced weapons developers, the achievements of NASA.. and there's hundreds of people working for these companies. These people aren't geniuses (though there might be one or two in the mix?) but mostly just moderate-intelligence humans. Point being that even if one is "smart" or semi-above-average in intelligence in relation to the collective of humanity, one is still faaar from being unique or "special" because there's millions like you who are also just that much above the intelligence-curve.

edit: Also, what I forgot to say in the former post is that.. that... damn I forgot.

 

[DarkGreen]

Normal people just need a box to fit us in. "No, the party will be boring as it will consist of me trying to avoid the drunks and make small talk with strangers, I hate small talk."