What does everyone here think about Santa (ideologically speaking, not if he literally exists). Is Santa simply a tool used to keep children in check, and to increase the consumerist spirit that pervades Christmas, or does Santa represent what he's supposed to - goodwill, jollyness, and all that jazz? Does he detract from the religious origins of Christmas, if they even exist at all? Should adults tell children the 'truth' about Santa? Does Santa 'exist' if children believe in him? Feel free to talk about any of the points outlined above, or to throw in your own...and, of course, connections to real-world events/policies are always welcome.
Or at least I was, for a little while, at work.
I'll post the pics when I get them.
Anyway the modern Santa is just a consumerist gimmick, heck the only reason why Santa's suit is red is because of an iconic advertising campaign undertaken by coka-cola, originally it was green.
Christmas has never meant anything more to me than: good music + presents + a time of year and ambience I looked forward to for these reasons - but it's not that I've never 'believed' in Santa or accepted the backstory and justification for the event because I didn't know any better, it's just the fact that Santa, reindeers, midnight mass, etc., were all just distractions/obstacles doing a commendable job of preoccupying me in the weeks leading up to present-time, in other words, Santa could've been a Golden Triceratops with the face of Dennis Hopper, and Christmas could have been called Bill Cosby Day, and my feelings with respect to this time of year (christmas) would be unchanged.
Santa Claus serves Satan's Cause! In fact Santa is an anagram of Satan. The damage caused to young people by Christians entertaining and supporting the myth and fantasy of Santa Claus is not estimable. One teaches children that Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth and that Santa Claus is a part of that celebration. Then at some point of time a child realizes that Santa Claus is a Lie and that the adults of his or her world have lied about the nature of Christmas. If Santa is not real then it is a logical assumption that Christ is not real either.
I really see the current methods of celebrating X -mas as just that - the ultimate perversion of a Religious holiday. People now celebrate and worship X at X-mastime, not Christ...
I believe the myth of Santa Claus started innocently enough. Probably some feel good story published in a 19th century newspaper based on some dodgy myths written before it for the same reasons. Was he designed to increase consumerism? Absolutely not. He's been used in marketing campaigns the same way everything else that doesn't have the ability to sue people get used by marketers.
Christmas used to be solely about Jesus, but if you want to attach the name Jesus to your product you risk heresy. Thus Santa Claus, someone you can portray in any way that isn't itself offensive and you risk no offense. Same with the Easter Bunny. You can't sell things by putting a Crucifix on it unless you're willing to take on all the restrictions placed on its use by the religious community.
The proliferation of Santa is just another example of capitalism over a long period of time. If I were still a Christian I'd be glad that conscience-less corporations have an alternative to Jesus when they create tasteless and insulting marketing campaigns.
To be perfectly honest, I don't know why the Christian community cares about preserving anything about Christmas. It has nothing to do with the dogma of the church aside from a cute story about the birth of Jesus which is believed to have happened on a different day and was itself not a miracle (compared to the conception of Jesus, which would make for a very different holiday).
The whole thing is a celebratory, community-based holiday. No rituals with spiritual meaning like with the Passover. No traditions that are intended to help people feel more in tune with their belief system. If you consider the three wise men, now you're off by years as Jesus was a small boy when that was said to have happened. Its like people wanted the day to become more significant, so they start smashing all the potential things to celebrate into one day regardless of the historical record. How does that make that day holy except by a traditional desire to make it so?
Christmas as a holiday belongs to the Christian community, not the Christian faith.
Yes, they should tell them santa is a fantasy designed to sell crap at them under the guise of love, conveniently supplanting a religious holiday and also serving as an excuse to ignore people the rest of the year. And that this fantasy was also destined to be broken, as most of the other lies given to children, destroying their spirits and hopes and trust on adults.
Feel free to talk about any of the points outlined above, or to throw in your own...and, of course, connections to real-world events/policies are always welcome.
I DESPISE the pathetic christmas time television / movies. Everything about society is so much more disgusting during christmas. And the music. OH GOD THE MUSIC. You cannot leave the house without being brutally damaged by a sonic attack of the most horrible sort, all jingles and bells and the same stupid songs they've been using for DECADES. And sometimes, you can't even escape inside the house
Oh and the deer, and inflatable snowmen, dancing robotic fat men, plastic trees... Seriously, it never snows here. Why the fuck do you have sleds and snowmen on your front yard? Aside from the complete idiotic consumption of it all... The absurd dissonance of all this wintery bullshit when its 25 C outside... traditions should have a relationship to the people, the place...
Not to mention the lights. Excellent way to waste energy and make your house look hideous all in one fell swoop. Real candles at least have warmth and real flicker. These ersatz twinkling candy colored lights... no... just... no.
And gift giving. Compulsory gift giving. I don't like you, I don't like the things they're selling, I don't think a present that is expected means anything other than acknowledging and bending over to social norms. I'm not giving you shit. I don't have to. You will hate me for that, when you're the one pushing your opinions on me. So much for a time for love and family. I've tried giving people my time and attention and ideals, truly irreplaceable, precious gifts, and they've pushed them aside, trampled them in the mud. They only care about wrapping paper, chocolates, shoes, and gadgets. Fuck that.
...And the music. OH GOD THE MUSIC. You cannot leave the house without being brutally damaged by a sonic attack of the most horrible sort, all jingles and bells and the same stupid songs...
You may or may not have just incited a mass-riot. I think this hastily done, wildly nonsensical video does a decent job of conveying my feelings on the issue...
@Kuu~ hating society doesn't make you any less separate from it, only makes the way in which it influences you different than one who embraces it, but no less potent.
My parents never tried to make me believe Santa was real, or my mom may have but my dad would have considered it wrong and stopped her. I don't regard him in any specific way, he is just a fictional character and is whatever the user or writer wants him to be, within a few universal parameters. I can't dislike a fictional character, however i do feel certain disgust when i see a Santa in a store trying to get kids to take interest in him, as to practically force the parent to give them money for a picture.
Santa Claus serves Satan's Cause! In fact Santa is an anagram of Satan. The damage caused to young people by Christians entertaining and supporting the myth and fantasy of Santa Claus is not estimable. One teaches children that Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth and that Santa Claus is a part of that celebration. Then at some point of time a child realizes that Santa Claus is a Lie and that the adults of his or her world have lied about the nature of Christmas. If Santa is not real then it is a logical assumption that Christ is not real either.
I really see the current methods of celebrating X -mas as just that - the ultimate perversion of a Religious holiday. People now celebrate and worship X at X-mastime, not Christ...
I looked for the old SNL skit of the Church Lady doing the Santa anagram thing. Your whole post reminded me of that, but alas, I couldn't find in on le ol' youtube.
Although my kids both believed in Santa they never believed the store Santas were real. I hated the fact I lied to my kids, but with them growing up with me, a single mum, I suppose they had hope that they would receive presents at Christmas that they deemed I couldnt afford.
What a struggle that was, trying to get gifts that I couldnt afford, on par with their friends and family members. I remember whilst growing up myself I never truly felt my parents cared about me as much as other parents felt about their kids. Santa could show me how much he loved me! However, it confused the hell out of me why others received more at Christmas from Santa - maybe he didnt like me that much either. I was the best behaved kid on the street but my gifts did not represent that - I searched for a fundamental flaw in me that I could never quite put my finger on.
The contrast in Santa's gifts from when I was a child compared with today is that gifts arent "toys" anymore. Kids are given "adult" toys, way more expensive than say a doll, toy car etc. I really doubt my parents spent an entire weeks/fortnight wage on a doll as opposed to say, the latest consoles of today.
I think what may have been a symbol of hope has been lost - a symbol of magic from an otherwise "mundane" existence. I believe the distinction is even greater today with emphasis focussed on amassing material wealth to define oneself as successful. The other 364 days of the year negate the "speciallness" of Christmas time if it is solely focused on gift giving, Santa etc.
Santa is an outdated concept - for the reasons mentioned above and how can children be taught "magical" concepts simultaneously with science?
Is Santa simply a tool used to keep children in check, and to increase the consumerist spirit that pervades Christmas, or does Santa represent what he's supposed to - goodwill, jollyness, and all that jazz?
At this point, he's a marketing gimmick. I don't know if he really s based on an actual saint, or where he came from-- what I have heard may in itself be a gimmick designed to increase his appeal. What's sure is that now, if you see a Santa... it's probably a gimmick, yes. Or the product of mass-consumerism.
Does he detract from the religious origins of Christmas, if they even exist at all?
I'm with Decaf on this one, but only to a point. It is, indeed, little more than a "celebratory, community based holiday", and if I am not mistaken, it was intended to be a celebration that would draw those living in the Roman Empire away from the celebration of Saturnalia, the same way All Saint's Day was intended to draw the natives of the Saxon/Celtic lands away from the celebration of Samhain. In both cases, the Church hoped to draw people away from celebration of pagan gods and toward a day of (more solemn) celebrationof Christianity. Didn't really work too well even back then, and by now, both holidays have turned into celebration for celebration's sake, from most peoples' perspectives. To my mind, there's not much point lamenting the state of Christmas in modern times, when its celebration was apparently irreligious and immoral enoughto be banned in the seventeenth century.
As far as I'm concerned, any day is as good as any other to celebrate something, as long as the sentiment is genuinely there. The fact that the details of the "christmas mythos" are erroneous, or that the date is wrong, or that the origins or modern celebration and perception of the holiday are less than sacred should not detract from the genuine and heartfelt observance of the holiday by someone who really wants to celebrate the birth (or conception) of Jesus Christ, and not succumb to the materialism of the holiday as it exists today. It's all a matter of perspective.
(Tl;dr? That was quite an 'opinion'. )
Should adults tell children the 'truth' about Santa?
...Never did me any real harm. I can't remember how exactly i learned Santa didn't exist, probably the same gradual process that led me to a cynical philosophy. (I don't mean to connect the two, only to say I arrived at the conclusions in a similar, slow, gradual way, through an extended period of soaking up information and eventually realizing my opinion was not, at that moment, what it had once been.) Mind you, some kids are more likely to invest something in the myth than others, I suppose... but by the time you know how they're likely to react, the damage is probably already done.
My mom went to a lot of trouble to make me believe Santa believed, down to making bootprints in the fireplace, putting snow in the hearth right before I came downstairs, and asking a male friend of hers to dress up as Santa so I could 'catch' him. She was a single mother, like beastie, and I don't see this as her trying to fool me, but as her going to a lot of trouble to let me feel like there was a little more magic and wonder in Christmas than she could provide on her own.
...I dunno. Not in a tangible sense, but the concept, I suppose, has a tenuous 'life' of its own...I would need to think about that more, and frankly, I've talked enough at this point.
Kuu said:
And the music. OH GOD THE MUSIC. You cannot leave the house without being brutally damaged by a sonic attack of the most horrible sort, all jingles and bells and the same stupid songs they've been using for DECADES. And sometimes, you can't even escape inside the house
Ditto. My parents never tried and I think it's a little...disturbing that people would take the idea of being kind, giving, and all that jazz and say it was just Santa all along. I think we are missing an opportunity to teach the kiddies that instead of being selfish little consumers they could learn that it's important to give sometimes.
Besides, he's just so ridiculous. Giant red suit and all. I could see some inherent lessons to be learned from the jolly fat man but it's all been lost in the Christmas Present Lists.
@Sagewolf: Thank you for the short history lesson. I'm glad you brought that up. While it's perfectly fine that people celebrate their religious holidays when they want I think it's important that we not forget our history here.
I believe in Santa's existence. I do agree/disagree with the other posters in that Christmas has not lost it's meaning, but that people may celebrate it for the 'wrong' reasons.
Santa Claus serves Satan's Cause! In fact Santa is an anagram of Satan. The damage caused to young people by Christians entertaining and supporting the myth and fantasy of Santa Claus is not estimable. One teaches children that Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth and that Santa Claus is a part of that celebration. Then at some point of time a child realizes that Santa Claus is a Lie and that the adults of his or her world have lied about the nature of Christmas. If Santa is not real then it is a logical assumption that Christ is not real either.
I really see the current methods of celebrating X -mas as just that - the ultimate perversion of a Religious holiday. People now celebrate and worship X at X-mastime, not Christ...
Is it religious holiday to begin with?
I thought you'd be happy some people do not celebrate Christmas as with Santa Claus, but as X-mas because it has little to do with it whatsoever. Would you like people to celebrate it as religious holiday but you yourself said it is from Satan? It would almost seem, whatever the answer would be, it would be unacceptable for you, unless it is a religious holiday that is from Satan and you would like people to celebrate it, but not X-mas.
Santa Claus serves Satan's Cause! In fact Santa is an anagram of Satan. The damage caused to young people by Christians entertaining and supporting the myth and fantasy of Santa Claus is not estimable.
^The conception? That's the Incarnation: there's not set feast day for it that I know of. It is partly supposed to be celebrated at Christmas, the same way the Epiphany kind of is, and partly celebrated at the feast of the Annunciation. ...I don't think I know anyone who observes that, except my great-aunts, one of whom is a nun, and the other of whom attends chrch every day without fail.
@Sagewolf: Thank you for the short history lesson. I'm glad you brought that up. While it's perfectly fine that people celebrate their religious holidays when they want I think it's important that we not forget our history here.
Just... keep in mind it may be wrong, okay? I pulled it off the top of my head, so it's liable to not be entirely accurate. In particular, I'm not sure it was that particular holiday, but it was some pagan celebration around the solstice.
Just... keep in mind it may be wrong, okay? I pulled it off the top of my head, so it's liable to not be entirely accurate. In particular, I'm not sure it was that particular holiday, but it was some pagan celebration around the solstice.
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