Recent IQ Drop

[Nanith Omicron]

I do not know how to react... It's a disgrace! A disgrace that touch my own sole being so profoundly that I might lost my sanity. I feel disgusting. Pathetic and idiotic. It make me upset so much. Frankly, I do not know how the f*ck I lost 19 points of IQ. YES. 19. Points. How did it drop so miserably? I used to score in the top percentile, between 137-143. I love doing IQ test. That's Why each month I'm completing Test. Last month, I got 142. The month before? 139. This month? Execrable. Risible. Digne d'un cancre!

Why? My habit didn't change. I'm learning language, matters, theories fact even memorizing numbers like Pie or the Fabioncci number. I'm eating well. Even drinking some wine each week. Munchin' chocolate, Dark as 70%. Reading books. Taking supplements. Playing instrument. Drawing. Listening to brainwave— Doing those activity to augment my IQ. And yet, I am dull as a brick.
I feel quackled.
(For some people IQ do not measure intelligence. Yet, I still think that is a importat part of myself)
What the actual f*ck is going on?!

 

[TBerg]

Less social interaction?

 

[onesteptwostep]

Maybe jumping off a bridge now would be a good option. Godspeed!
























Oh I didn't mean suicide I mean like bungejumping or something.

 

[Brontosaurie]

how would wine help, specifically?

yeah it has antioxidants. so does cabbage and blueberries.

 

[redbaron]

 

[Nanith Omicron]

how would wine help, specifically?

yeah it has antioxidants. so does cabbage and blueberries.

I would say that there's not really a high correlation between drinking Wine and Gain a IQ boost. It's really good for the cardiovascular system. And, if I remember, there's a relation between IQ and Our systems.

 

[Vion]

Why? My habit didn't change. I'm learning language, matters, theories fact even memorizing numbers like Pie or the Fabioncci number. I'm eating well. Even drinking some wine each week. Munchin' chocolate, Dark as 70%. Reading books. Taking supplements. Playing instrument. Drawing. Listening to brainwave— Doing those activity to augment my IQ. And yet, I am dull as a brick.

Lol purposeless unincentivized cargo cult science, boy oh boy are you not complacently docile. I can feel my IQ dropping just being around you!

how would wine help, specifically?

yeah it has antioxidants. so does cabbage and blueberries.

Hey some of that fermented cabbage might help! Would make him stink so bad he would have no choice but to sit back and get learned.

 

[OrLevitate]

How are you going to reclaim a positive perception of yourself?

Que pas lez veritas m8?

Up until I just asked google what the actual translation of your signature is I thought 'notre' meant 'another' and it was more better imho. all they need to know is someone came up with it! > But i digest

 

[Nanith Omicron]

Lol purposeless unincentivized cargo cult science, boy oh boy are you not complacently docile. I can feel my IQ dropping just being around you!

I do not think that yours could drop any lower. As low as you're currently .

 

[Hadoblado]

IQ tests have a margin of error, but it shouldn't be that large. You dropped more than a standard deviation. Also, as you do more IQ tests, you should be scoring higher as a result of a practice effect (which ordinarily means further testing is less valid, as it's less representative of your general intelligence).

If you're completing a test every month, I assume you're not reusing the same test (because pointless). Where are you coming up with a new test from every month? You realise that many tests use different standardisations? Getting 150 in one may only translate to a cool 130 or whatever in another (numbers given are fictional).

Also, your enthusiasm... seems misplaced. IQ predicts success, but it is not actually success. Improving your IQ won't make your arguments valid or your perceptions right. It won't make you more attractive, it won't improve your income, and flaunting being moderately gifted won't get you more appreciated than just being moderately gifted. I understand enjoying the tests, but getting hung up on the result is a step backwards.

Basically:
- learning languages -> yay!
- being healthy -> yay!
- reading books -> yay!
- trying to remember pi -> nope!

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

You are not going to regain that lost IQ here, that's for sure.

I kind of don't want to bother with a long serious response, the way Hado did.

 

[scorpiomover]

A drop of 19 IQ points would be way too much to blame on developmental changes. Either you got a false result, i.e. you screwed up the test, or you're suffering some serious physical problem with your brain. Given how many tests you are doing, you probably overdid it. Either your subconscious got fed up with all the pressure and made you fail to get you to stop, or your brain can't take the pressure and is collapsing. Either that, or you need to get to a doctor ASAP. I suggest getting a proper brain scan, just in case.

 

[nanook]

I think hemi-sync is good for mediation and lucid dreaming or altered states of mind like visualisation, NLP, schamanism. but not for IQ tests. you can easily end up being in a trance for hours. if your brain is busy doing infinite loops of excercise A, it won't do well with exercise B. I'm sure you use hemi-sync that is advertised for intelligence, but there is introverted intelligence (day dreaming about relativity theory) and extroverted intelligence (paying attention to a task). Either way, my experience is simply that hemi-sync has often fucked me up.

 

[Architect]

Ah, so that's where that 19 points came from! Mine keeps going up, gotta come from somewhere. Thanks!

 

[Yellow]

I do not know how to react... It's a disgrace! A disgrace that touch my own sole being so profoundly that I might lost my sanity. I feel disgusting. Pathetic and idiotic. It make me upset so much. Frankly, I do not know how the f*ck I lost 19 points of IQ. YES. 19. Points. How did it drop so miserably? I used to score in the top percentile, between 137-143. I love doing IQ test. That's Why each month I'm completing Test. Last month, I got 142. The month before? 139. This month? Execrable. Risible. Digne d'un cancre!...

Okay, so either you're trolling/being sarcastic, or you're serious. I'll just assume that this is a real crisis.

First, how do you go about checking your IQ? If you're just taking online quizzes, your results are not reliable. If you're shelling out the cash for official exams each month, then perhaps you had a bad day.

Worse, now, if your confidence has been shaken, there's a chance that it will take you a long time before you have a good day (after all, if you go into a test of that sort thinking you'll do poorly, it decreases your score).

I know it's pointless to try to convince you to place far less importance on IQ scores, so I'll suggest ways to increase your score. IQ tests check for a specific set of skills. They include matrix/spatial reasoning, perceptual reasoning, memory, the ability to apply basic math logically, and sometimes language ability. If you focus your attention on improving your skills in those areas, it will increase your score. This website has a good summary of the skill areas and some practice stuff.

 

[TBerg]

I am serious about the social interaction thing. It is well known that humans light up in the presence of other humans. It is hard-wired for our survival and flourishing. You have to take the interaction in a positive mood, however.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Do you always take the same test? Last I checked, which has been quite some time, admittedly, there were three big tests, distributed by bodies of actual psychologists and others who spend their lives studying intelligence. These three tests operate on different scales. On one, a test of 150 might equal 130 on a different one. If you're taking different tests, that could easily be the problem.

Further, you seem to be a tad too concerned about it. Your IQ is just a number, a pretty good measure of how well you learn. It doesn't change what you know and, frankly, though it may sound counterintuitive coming from someone on this board, what you do matters more than what you know. What you know informs what you do, but being smart, in and of itself, doesn't mean shit. If you can't get a job that pays your bills, your life will be shitty no matter how much information's bouncing around in your head.

 

[Happy]

I'm having difficulty fathoming this. Well, I've always had difficulty fathoming this. I have some questions.

Why do you keep doing the same test with the intent on falling within the same range of score?

Also, why do you bother doing a test more than twice?

Also, why do you bother doing a test to measure intelligence? Is it something to do with needing your ego to be stroked?

Also, why do you measure yourself against a number?

I realise this query comes across in a condescending tone, but it is not meant that way. Nor are my queries rhetorical. I'm genuinely baffled by the whole thing. This is not necessarily addressed at OP either. Please anyone feel free to respond.

 

[Yellow]

Also, why do you bother doing a test to measure intelligence? Is it something to do with needing your ego to be stroked?

I think for a lot of people, this is it. We all want to feel like we are good at something. Some of us want to feel superior to others, especially when we have a lot of things we're not particularly good at. I think something like an IQ score can become incredibly important to someone who has come to see it as an objective measure of his or her area of superiority. If that kind of personal comfort appears to suddenly be stripped away, it can come as quite a shock, and can lead to personal crisis. I would assume that something like a sudden decrease in IQ would be hardest on S-type personalities, who often rely on more concrete affirmations, but I can see it upsetting a young N-type as well.

 

[nanook]

We live in a world full of toxic chemicals and most of us ingest things that are not natural for us. Everyone should worry about early onset dementia. Many people grew up with crappy brains in the first place, due to malnutrition.

 

[SpaceYeti]

We live in a world full of toxic chemicals and most of us ingest things that are not natural for us. Everyone should worry about early onset dementia. Many people grew up with crappy brains in the first place, due to malnutrition.

Bah, that's what we have kidneys and livers for. "Natural" food, "chemicals", you sound like one of those organic-only moms who have no understanding how your body actually works, what a GMO is, what it means when something's a "chemical", or basically any understanding of nutrition, yet are out there spouting garbage like some wise asshole.

Sorry, just one of my pet peeves. It's not bad for you just because it's a chemical. Proteins and vital enzymes are chemicals. Get over it.

Our malnutrition comes from poor diets, not toxic chemicals. Eat some damn broccoli and hold the pizza if you're worried about your diet.

 

[TheManBeyond]

bro my top score in a iq test was 119 :S

hahah

 

[TBerg]

Notice how nanook said toxic chemicals and not just chemicals, SpaceYeti. I am not for condemning modern life, but surely there is something to lose from the concentrated amounts of unusual compounds to be found in so many places. When I lived in China, for example, I was sick most of the time probably from all of the toxins around me devastating my immune system. I tried pharmaceuticals for a while, but the what really made the difference was the final care package sent from my "organic-only" mom containing herbal and supplemental support for my immune system.

 

[Architect]

I think for a lot of people, this is it. We all want to feel like we are good at something. Some of us want to feel superior to others, especially when we have a lot of things we're not particularly good at.

I found that the biggest idiots I met in my time were ones who got their IQ tested. Every time. They also joined Mensa.

Due regards to OP who I don't know and am not making commentary on. Back on AA people kept asking what my IQ was, to which I said I never tested and never intend to. Now you know.

 

[Analyzer]

Maybe now you are actually more intelligent.

 

[Black Rose]

don't smoke pot
7 point drop for adults

 

[Architect]

Maybe now you are actually more intelligent.

First problem: define intelligence.

Nobody understands measurement. We take measurements all the time without knowing what the hell it is that we're measuring. Never mind what to actually do with it.

 

[Analyzer]

First problem: define intelligence.

Nobody understands measurement. We take measurements all the time without knowing what the hell it is that we're measuring. Never mind what to actually do with it.

I think there's a duality of Te-Ti when it comes to these sort of things. Te seems to be focused on using given measurements to create or modify systems, taking the meta-aspects for granted. This is often appropriate as you may know being an engineer. But Ti especially with Ne wants to look at it more holistically.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I found that the biggest idiots I met in my time were ones who got their IQ tested. Every time. They also joined Mensa.

Due regards to OP who I don't know and am not making commentary on. Back on AA people kept asking what my IQ was, to which I said I never tested and never intend to. Now you know.

I think Mensa members tend to be arrogant left brainers with lots of fluid intelligence but who are only average in the crystallized deparment. The kind of people who when they understood that they were smarter than most people took it as an excuse not to listen to anybody but themselves. They carry a beef in their hearts.

 

[TBerg]

Architect is right. Even convention distinguishes fluid from crystallized intelligence.

 

[Black Rose]

Architect is right. Even convention distinguishes fluid from crystallized intelligence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

 

[Architect]

I think there's a duality of Te-Ti when it comes to these sort of things. Te seems to be focused on using given measurements to create or modify systems, taking the meta-aspects for granted. This is often appropriate as you may know being an engineer. But Ti especially with Ne wants to look at it more holistically.

I get your point but I'm not sure it applies. Disclaimer, my working life has been in measurement science, first at Fermilab measuring quarks and now designing the best scientific instrumentation on the planet. Anyhow it's more fundamental than that and doesn't have any to do with type. It seems to be built into our universe.

Take the OP, can anybody precisely define what IQ is? No we can't because we're using mushy words. Can you describe it mathematically? Yes, it's a number, and there's the problem. The number gives us an illusion of certainty and precision where none exists, because we can't define intelligence. Turing came up with the best test for intelligence, which was just talk to the entity, and if it seems intelligent, then it is.

I think Mensa members tend to be arrogant left brainers with lots of fluid intelligence but who are only average in the crystallized deparment. The kind of people who when they understood that they were smarter than most people took it as an excuse not to listen to anybody but themselves. They carry a beef in their hearts.

Left/right brain has been disproven, but I get your sense. Not sure, I just found them to be people who were trying to be smart, rather than trying to be original. Paradoxically its the original people who get labeled as smart by the rest of the monkeys.

Take the opposite, you know who I found to always be the smartest, the top of the class? It was the guy you weren't aware of. Happened both in undergrad and grad school, the top student was some unassuming guy, usually quiet, but importantly they studied.

 

[Rook]

Quick suggestion for OP:
Do not define your intelligence by the points you gain from an external arbiter, rather define it by the effects it has on the universe and the utility you gain by deploying it.

So in essence, don't try to augment your IQ, rather try to be an intelligent human being capable of using your increased capacities for individual or societal evolutionary progress.

 

[Black Rose]

The number gives us an illusion of certainty and precision where none exists, because we can't define intelligence.

your incapacity is not something that can be used to generalize it(definitions) as a universal trait among "we" where it cannot be done.

Definition of Intelligence

"Intelligence is an adaptation…To say that intelligence is a particular instance of biological adaptation is thus to suppose that it is essentially an organization and that its function is to structure the universe just as the organism structures its immediate environment" (Piaget, 1963, pp. 3-4).

"Intelligence is assimilation to the extent that it incorporates all the given data of experience within its framework…There can be no doubt either, that mental life is also accommodation to the environment. Assimilation can never be pure because by incorporating new elements into its earlier schemata the intelligence constantly modifies the latter in order to adjust them to new elements" (Piaget, 1963, p. 6-7).

 

[Analyzer]

I get your point but I'm not sure it applies. Disclaimer, my working life has been in measurement science, first at Fermilab measuring quarks and now designing the best scientific instrumentation on the planet. Anyhow it's more fundamental than that and doesn't have any to do with type. It seems to be built into our universe.

Take the OP, can anybody precisely define what IQ is? No we can't because we're using mushy words. Can you describe it mathematically? Yes, it's a number, and there's the problem. The number gives us an illusion of certainty and precision where none exists, because we can't define intelligence.

What seems to built into the universe? I agree that defining terms is the problem. Math is just a system or language for understanding things quantitatively. You need logic to create an ontology and these systems are limited by our own cognition. It is more fundamental then type but I was just suggesting that since our understanding of reality is based on types with different cognitive functions, there would be different perceptions of how things are.

Turing came up with the best test for intelligence, which was just talk to the entity, and if it seems intelligent, then it is.

This goes back to another problem of defining what Man is. If humans are intelligent beings then how does this relate to defining intelligence? The Turing test and other general conceptions of what something means to be intelligent are subjective, which means it's all based on public opinion.

 

[Black Rose]

http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/the-biggest-myth-ever#post-695491

i have a hypothesis though

general intelligence is the ability to do well on many tasks, if this is the case then why is this correlated that we do well and this is across a broad spectrum.
when we eat by the brain stem mechanism this is a loop that is coordinated between the environment and hunger hormones.
neuron growth is in alignment with the environment when the hippocampus tells other neuron to stop suppression of growth.
when they grow new data loops form that other loops formed prior attach to, this means integration.
integration is growth that allows a new homeostasis with the environment, cell grow differently make different integration patterns
the balance is the flow of positive chemicals or neurotransmitters, this regulation makes loops that don't interfere with existing ones but help create new references.
interference is what happens when conflicting signal stop growth, growth must happen when new information needs to be learned.
introspection means loops grow that allow inferences to be made, it is when and how should i grow with new info.
genius minds hold together parallel growth not stuck in loops that harden plasticity where new info cannot increase new pattern recognition in parallel growth creation of lopsidedness (spec scan where regions have no blood flow)
new loops form flows that increase new parallelism

 

[Happy]

I think for a lot of people, this is it. We all want to feel like we are good at something. Some of us want to feel superior to others, especially when we have a lot of things we're not particularly good at. I think something like an IQ score can become incredibly important to someone who has come to see it as an objective measure of his or her area of superiority. If that kind of personal comfort appears to suddenly be stripped away, it can come as quite a shock, and can lead to personal crisis. I would assume that something like a sudden decrease in IQ would be hardest on S-type personalities, who often rely on more concrete affirmations, but I can see it upsetting a young N-type as well.

This makes sense. Thank you, Yellow.

 

[Architect]

your incapacity is not something that can be used to generalize it(definitions) as a universal trait among "we" where it cannot be done.

Sorry but that sentence is incomprehensible.

What seems to built into the universe?

Measurement uncertainty. Well I should say it is built into the universe and can prove it, but I'm specifically talking about the unmeasurable uncertainty, which is definitional. The goal of taking any measurement is an action, usually "Do something" or "Do nothing". For example, take blood pressure. Result it too high, should we do something? How do you know what to do? Even something as pedestrian as blood pressure ... the action table on that is just based on correlations. Some people have odd blood pressures - my wife for example. Extremely low. Has been so her whole life, and some doctors get a little alarmed at it. What about if she has normal blood pressure then, does that indicate heart disease or not? Not easy questions.

This goes back to another problem of defining what Man is. If humans are intelligent beings then how does this relate to defining intelligence? The Turing test and other general conceptions of what something means to be intelligent are subjective, which means it's all based on public opinion.

Yup. I remember as a kid the definition for being Human was "The Tool User". Then we discovered monkeys use tools (sticks to pull ants out of ant hills). Later we discovered nearly microscopic foraminifera making architectural structures for themselves, none the same, but not really following laws like crystals or snowflakes do. Higher order thinking? Accident? Unlikely to be thinking, but it makes it difficult to define.

I like the rule for pornography. We can't define it, but we know it when we see it.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Sorry but that sentence is incomprehensible.

he's just saying: the fact that you can't imagine a definition of intelligence, does not mean it is impossible. that "incomprehensibility" (really not incomprehensible unless you're a generation 0.1 text parsing algorithm beta) came in handy for yo ego, eh?

i think you're applying a selectively strict demarcation criterion to the concept of intelligence.

 

[TheManBeyond]

he's just saying: the fact that you can't imagine a definition of intelligence, does not mean it is impossible.

oh thanks for the confirmation now i know that i had understood his comment too.

 

[rainman312]

It seems far more likely that this is simply an error due to having a bad day. Not in the emotional sense, but in the sense that you may not be thinking as clearly as usual. Also, take into consideration that IQ tests are generally a very inaccurate indicator of intelligence anyway. If you're really concerned, turn off the computer and go read some books or do a few challenging puzzles. I also find playing a musical instrument or studying a language (or anything you're interested in, really) helps me think more clearly. The best thing you can do if you feel this is an accurate result and want to improve is to simply challenge your mind and learn as many new things as you can.

 

[Architect]

he's just saying: the fact that you can't imagine a definition of intelligence, does not mean it is impossible.

Sure, I didn't say or mean to imply it was impossible, but I haven't seen a good one yet.

i think you're applying a selectively strict demarcation criterion to the concept of intelligence.

I'm just looking for a good definition, which is one that is unambiguous. Such as, "Male" and "Female". Nobody has trouble defining or knowing what those mean.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Instead of obsessively taking iq tests every month, plant trees and watch them grow

 

[Brontosaurie]

I'm just looking for a good definition, which is one that is unambiguous. Such as, "Male" and "Female". Nobody has trouble defining or knowing what those mean.

many phenomena aren't binary or bimodal like that. doesn't mean they're not real.

or maybe intelligence is bimodal, as in there are pockets of anti-entropy which tends to form a stable system so that matter is effectively either dead or alive, not so much in between. structure/life/intelligence either dissipates or exponentially feeds back on itself and assimilates the surroundings of its initial material substrate. but that probably doesn't allow a binary/bimodal conception of intelligence as a human trait.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sure, I didn't say or mean to imply it was impossible, but I haven't seen a good one yet.



I'm just looking for a good definition, which is one that is unambiguous. Such as, "Male" and "Female". Nobody has trouble defining or knowing what those mean.

According to etymology online:

"intelligence (n.)
late 14c., "faculty of understanding," from Old French intelligence (12c.), from Latin intelligentia, intellegentia "understanding, power of discerning; art, skill, taste," from intelligentem (nominative intelligens) "discerning," present participle of intelligere "to understand, comprehend," from inter- "between" (see inter-) + legere "choose, pick out, read" (see lecture (n.)).

Meaning superior understanding, sagacity" is from early 15c. Sense of "information, news" first recorded mid-15c., especially "secret information from spies" (1580s). Intelligence quotient first recorded 1921 (see I.Q.)."

Basically intelligence = reading between the lines. Can't be quantified yet it's not that hard to tell if someone is intelligent or not.

It's very close to "discerning":

discern (v.)
late 14c., from Old French discerner (13c.) "distinguish (between), separate" (by sifting), and directly from Latin discernere "to separate, set apart, divide, distribute; distinguish, perceive," from dis- "off, away" (see dis-) + cernere "distinguish, separate, sift" (see crisis). Related: Discerned; discerning.

I think intelligence may be slightly different from "cunning"

cunning (adj.)
early 14c., "learned, skillful," present participle of cunnen "to know" (see can (v.1)). Sense of "skillfully deceitful" is probably late 14c. As a noun from c.1300. Related: Cunningly.

I'm referring to the 14c. meaning here. Some people are really great at just "knowing" pretty much instantaneously what's going on in a given situation or what kind of person someone is. And this has nothing to do with their being subject matter experts. That penetrating insight is one of the greatest gifts anyone can be born with imo. Some academics spend years researching, reading, and accumulating a vast store of knowledge about a particular topic, and along comes someone with penetrating insight, and their observations about the topic and their ability to predict how a situation might unfold in the future are uncannily true and more accurate than those of the academic expert...cunning = knowing

Certainly there are many academic geniuses, especially in fields like theoretical physics...people who are incredibly gifted at solving problems, but they still may lack that quality of penetrating insight...or maybe it's just that they have this quality but only in a certain domain...

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

find girlfriend

 

[Brontosaurie]

oh and one more thing Archie if you're reading: people are actually beginning to have some big trouble defining the sexes or even accepting them as basically constituting a binary system. look at queer feminism and gender studies - even biology proper is absorbing their reactionary moralist sophistry. sex is now viewed in biology not as a downcascade from XX/XY and reproductive function but as a nebulous complex of equivalent traits.

highly off topic, but interesting note

 

[SpaceYeti]

Notice how nanook said toxic chemicals and not just chemicals, SpaceYeti. I am not for condemning modern life, but surely there is something to lose from the concentrated amounts of unusual compounds to be found in so many places. When I lived in China, for example, I was sick most of the time probably from all of the toxins around me devastating my immune system. I tried pharmaceuticals for a while, but the what really made the difference was the final care package sent from my "organic-only" mom containing herbal and supplemental support for my immune system.

It was the combination of "toxic chemicals" and "most of us ingest things that are not natural for us" that set off my holistic nutjob alarm. I also didn't say he was necessarily wrong about what he said, I was only saying that his language set off my holistic nutjob alarm.

The problems with your digestion in a foreign country could easily be attributed to a diet different from that which you were accustomed to. It's a fairly well-documented phenomenon, actually. Your mother's organic care package was very likely more similar to your typical diet than the indigenous diet.

Granted, this is entirely speculation, but it seems reasonable to me since there's no verified dietary benefit you get from organic versus non-organic, GMO or non-GMO.

 

[Brontosaurie]

GMO and nuclear power are da future and people who oppose them are being scumbags and slave-people!

 

[SpaceYeti]

Exactly.