Question Mark Usage

[Grayman]

Disregarding proper grammar...

Shouldn't a question mark only be used when you actually expect a response to your statement?

Or is it just too hard to give the statement the proper tone without it.

Just seems to be a more practical usage and it also helps define sarcasm/rhetorical questions.

 

[kaelum]

Question marks don't get a section in Elements of Style so I don't think you need to stress yourself out over this. Use question marks as you see fit, I guess.

http://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b572/public/StrunkWhite.pdf

 

[Jennywocky]

what are you doing for dinner tonight





(I wasn't expecting a real response.)

 

[kaelum]

oops, sorry---didn't see that it was more of a rhetorical post that kind of answered itself. (yup, edited post)

 

[Grayman]

what are you doing for dinner tonight





(I wasn't expect a real response.)

I guess you are right. It is important to be able to hide our disdain from people in seemingly caring and considerate questions.

 

[Jennywocky]

I guess you are right. It is important to be able to hide our disdain from people in seemingly caring and considerate questions.

what else did you think the answer would be

 

[Rook]

Are some questions not rhetorical?

 

[Grayman]

Are some questions not rhetoric?

Some actually are not. I am suprised you didn't know this....

 

[kaelum]

I guess you are right. It is important to be able to hide our disdain from people in seemingly caring and considerate questions.

Woah. How many levels of meta is this? Slightly mind blown.

 

[Cherry Cola]

What about rhetorical questions? What about when you think someone is so god awful wrong you respond to them entirely in rhetorical questions? What about the fact that only using question marks when you expect a reply would cause a lot more ambiguity than using them liberally? I mean you aren't confused reading this right?

 

[RaBind]

is it possible to end every sentence with a question mark? we should give it a try? try to find a sentence that doesn't seem to work with a question mark? I bet you can't find one?

 

[Cherry Cola]

............yes?

 

[Grayman]

What about rhetorical questions? What about when you think someone is so god awful wrong you respond to them entirely in rhetorical questions? What about the fact that only using question marks when you expect a reply would cause a lot more ambiguity than using them liberally? I mean you aren't confused reading this right?

Rhetorical questions work better without a question mark. An example: "Do you think I am stupid."
It is phrased as a question but you don't expect an answer.

What about when you think someone is so god awful wrong you respond to them entirely in rhetorical questions?

They will know without a doubt you are shoving something in their face as opposed to really asking a question. It is obvious, don't you think.

What about the fact that only using question marks when you expect a reply would cause a lot more ambiguity than using them liberally?

How?

I mean you aren't confused reading this right?

Is that rhetorical?

Maybe you should write it. "I mean you aren't confused reading this right." Or did you really mean "I mean you aren't confused reading this right?"?

 

[Grayman]

is it possible to end every sentence with a question mark? we should give it a try? try to find a sentence that doesn't seem to work with a question mark? I bet you can't find one?

Using my rules for a question mark, I hadn't considered how they would work with statements or comments. The majority of the comments made will not need a question mark. Like how none of these statements here need one because they don't need responses. From what you quoted above the last sentence actually does require a question mark according to my rules because you are desirous of a response, but at the same time you could leave it out if you really felt it was impossible to find a sentence that fit the condition you set. I wonder what other comments and statements, using my rules, could be given a question mark?

 

[Cherry Cola]

Let's remember that there isn't any clear cut division between statements and questions either. Written text reflects spoken language to some degree and in spoken language there are the clear cut questions, but there are also the half questions, statements that sound a little like questions, because whoever is speaking hesitates a little, or because he or she raises the pitch of his or her voice for the last words of a sentence. You can make something sound more or less like a question, you may or may not get an answer, but that doesn't really matter. Someone saying "I guess I am just... tired" saying the tired in a way that makes the sentence sound like a question is giving whoever he or she is talking about the opportunity to reply to the sentence like a question, or ignore it like a sentence. I guess you could let the answer define whether it's a question or a statement, sort of like quantum physics ^^

In any case my point is that I'ma write a question mark whenever I'm writting someone that I'm not entirely sure is correct and I want to present an opportunity to get replies on that specifically. I think it's fine writing question marks for potential questions.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Rhetorical questions work better without a question mark. An example: "Do you think I am stupid."
It is phrased as a question but you don't expect an answer.

I disagree, it just looks weird to me, sure it works on it's own, but in a running text it would just be annoying.

They will know without a doubt you are shoving something in their face as opposed to really asking a question. It is obvious, don't you think.

Yes, but you get to express your hatred and disdain by replying entirely in questions without actually using ad-homs.

How?

Is that rhetorical?

Maybe you should write it. "I mean you aren't confused reading this right." Or did you really mean "I mean you aren't confused reading this right?"?

Nah that was just a regular question :O

 

[Brontosaurie]

i like both ways. depends on tone and connotations and interactive context etc.

CC: that about quantum physics tickled my di... fancy

 

[Fukyo]

I dislike seeing questions that don't end in question marks. When I am reading a text it breaks my immersion and gives the text a certain incoherence feel for the lack of a better word, much like improperly placed commas.

 

[redbaron]

Could you explain exactly what you, mean Fukyo.

 

[Absurdity]

I know that, feel.

 

[Fukyo]

I know that, feel.

Poignant, as fuck.

 

[EditorOne]

I'm with Fukyu.

Point of inquiry: In a written communication, how do you communicate to the target that you don't really expect an answer because you left the question mark off the words? The phrasing within the question makes its use for effect apparent. If you're going to establish your own paradigm of grammar and punctuation, you've got at least a century's worth of hardwired standard usage to overcome.
If it is a question, it gets a question mark. Your expectations about the question, and your intention in asking the question, can't be created with this kind of grammatical omission. Most targets would assume you are simply deficient in education.

 

[Grayman]

I dislike seeing questions that don't end in question marks. When I am reading a text it breaks my immersion and gives the text a certain incoherence feel for the lack of a better word, much like improperly placed commas.

I am aware of that and I am cerain many of us feel that way in varying degrees. I simply wanted to explore the practicality. Discomfort is overcome with use.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I'm with Fukyu.

Point of inquiry: In a written communication, how do you communicate to the target that you don't really expect an answer because you left the question mark off the words? The phrasing within the question makes its use for effect apparent. If you're going to establish your own paradigm of grammar and punctuation, you've got at least a century's worth of hardwired standard usage to overcome.
If it is a question, it gets a question mark. Your expectations about the question, and your intention in asking the question, can't be created with this kind of grammatical omission. Most targets would assume you are simply deficient in education.

on the other hand, that very debasement of formal expectation may constitute a viable stylistic device. intuitively it gives a rambling, rushed, kind of stumbling forth yet furious, sharp and determined expression. at the most fundamental symbolic level it is of course a question which you don't reckon the receiver capable of answering adequately. often i find it humorous, exciting, agreeable, triumphant, sincere and deeply satisfying, but that may be some quirk of mine.

adjective overload lol

 

[Grayman]

I'm with Fukyu.

Point of inquiry: In a written communication, how do you communicate to the target that you don't really expect an answer because you left the question mark off the words? The phrasing within the question makes its use for effect apparent. If you're going to establish your own paradigm of grammar and punctuation, you've got at least a century's worth of hardwired standard usage to overcome

People adhere to their procedures and rules because of the familiarity and comfort of it. Efficiency isn't priority for them as they are afraid to trek the unknown to obtain it. In politics it is only overcome in the largest of issues and with great effort. I have no illusions that I would be able to change anything but it does not keep me exploring new ways to make things better because that is who I am.

***

What irritates me about those who have disagreed with me is that they do so without real backing, supplying me with the information that it simple feels wrong. The feeling will be overcome like when a coach shows a young boy how to throw a ball in a new way. It is awkward for the boy but with practice and experience the boy finds a greater potential for success at the end of the road.

I have supplied examples and reasons as to why my method enables better and straightforward communication. Where are the examples to prove otherwise?

 

[Jennywocky]

I have supplied examples and reasons as to why my method enables better and straightforward communication. Where are the examples to prove otherwise?

Ummm.... this thread?

 

[Grayman]

Ummm.... this thread?

Is that supposed to be rhetorical? I don't see anything.

 

[Jennywocky]

Is that supposed to be rhetorical? I don't see anything.

Why would it be rhetorical? I used a question mark at the end, didn't I? Or don't you follow your own rules now?

 

[Grayman]

Why would it be rhetorical? I used a question mark at the end, didn't I? Or don't you follow your own rules now?

I don't believe this thread indicates anything except how useful my rules can potentially be. I wasn't aware you were following the rules, I arbitrarily assumed you had stopped. Guess, I was being unreasonable.

 

[Liebling]

Woah. How many levels of meta is this? Slightly mind blown.

Hah. Your mind is only blown because of the quantifiable truth behind the statement. How many of us make seriously stupid small talk and ask questions that we really don't care about but we know we are supposed to to make other people feel better? It's like walking for me, i know I have to navigate landscape so it's just something I know I have to do to keep from falling into potholes or sewer openings.

 

[EditorOne]

When you become e.e.cummings, you can make some of your own rules. Ditto if you are engaged in an obvious literary venue. Outside of that and a few other exceptions, you'll simply fail to communicate fully.

 

[EditorOne]

Besides, why do we have to prove you're "wrong?" You wanted to know what we thought. Now you know.

If you want "throw weight" behind the conclusion that leaving out the question mark is merely confusing and distracting, rather than poignantly weighted with extra meaning, OK. I edited copy in various capacities for 38 years, and studied the craft of communication relentlessly as the foundation for that editing. I can't possibly share 60 tons of insight, experience and hours spent on the phone straightening out misunderstandings that threatened to trigger everything from lawsuits to death threats because some published document contained bad syntax, bad grammar, avoidable ambiguity or awkward phrasing. If you want the ten-minute version, E.B. White, "Elements of Style."

 

[Jennywocky]

Ah, the good ol' Strunk book.

 

[Grayman]

Besides, why do we have to prove you're "wrong?" You wanted to know what we thought. Now you know.

If you want "throw weight" behind the conclusion that leaving out the question mark is merely confusing and distracting, rather than poignantly weighted with extra meaning, OK. I edited copy in various capacities for 38 years, and studied the craft of communication relentlessly as the foundation for that editing. I can't possibly share 60 tons of insight, experience and hours spent on the phone straightening out misunderstandings that threatened to trigger everything from lawsuits to death threats because some published document contained bad syntax, bad grammar, avoidable ambiguity or awkward phrasing. If you want the ten-minute version, E.B. White, "Elements of Style."

The poll was reserved for opinion but the discussion, I had hoped, would be based on evidence, examples, and reason tying them together. I don't care about your many years that led you to a biased view of grammar in conjunction with the status quo. I would however like to hear specific examples in your experience where the missing question mark caused confusion. Other than that you and I have no reason to believe that my method is less efficient. We have only reason to believe, as evidenced in this thread, that using my rules eliminate confusion.

 

[StevenM]

I don't understand the poll options.

 

[Absurdity]

I don't care about your many years that led you to a biased view of grammar in conjunction with the status quo.

Isn't grammar by definition dependent on the status quo?

 

[Jennywocky]

Isn't grammar by definition dependent on the status quo?

"agreed-upon rules so that people can properly understand each other"

... yeah, that sounds pretty much "status quo" to me.

Things drift over time, but typically they're part of the ebb and flow of conversational current, natural "shortcuts" in dialogue, etc.

 

[Grayman]

Isn't grammar by definition dependent on the status quo?

It doesn't matter. This was an excersize to explore alternatives. You cannot explore alternatives if you are stuck in what is considered proper.

 

[Grayman]

Well this dead anyways. Ill discuss the development of language but I am not trying to make any point. Just elaborate. Say what comes to mind when reading these topics.


There are engineered languages developed by people who study language but they never get far because there isn't a large enough base to support them.

Language can be changed by congress by enforcing the new rules in schools.

Language is currently modified by the popular and not the intelligent or scientific. This is done through media.

 

[kris]

It doesn't matter. This was an excersize to explore alternatives. You cannot explore alternatives if you are stuck in what is considered proper.

You can as long as you keep proper usage in mind and do not shatter all ties with it. Many unconventional or unacknowledged parts of speech still work because they're close enough to proper usage to be understood. The issue isn't deviating from the norm so much as being honest about whether that deviation enhances meaning or degrades it.

To me, the following to sentences are subtly different:

"It doesn't affect you at all, so why do you even care?"
"It doesn't affect you at all, so why do you even care."

They are both rhetorical. With the former, it's something I want you to think about even though I don't expect an answer. I am engaging you with the question to make a point. With the latter, I'm saying I don't really acknowledge your right to care; the conversation is over. Spoken out loud, the difference would exist in intonation and inflexion, so I may actually write it that way. It would be very uncommon, though, and to be honest, I'm not sure any reader out there actually does notice the difference or care even if they do.

 

[Reluctantly]

this is somewhat unrelated to the topic, but I once identified with the symbol and found a lot of meaning in it. Then that guy that shot up that georgia school, Seung Cho or whatever his name was wrote that he was a question mark and I gave that up because he ruined it for me, just like Hitler ruined the mustache he had by being a homicidal maniac.

Fellow students described Cho as a "quiet" person who "would not respond if someone greeted him." Student Julie Poole recalled the first day of a literature class the previous year when the students introduced themselves one by one. When it was Cho's turn to introduce himself, he did not speak. According to Poole, the professor looked at the sign-in sheet and found that, whereas everyone else had written out their names, Cho had written only a question mark. Poole added that "we just really knew him as the question mark kid".​

He made it creepy too.

 

[Reluctantly]

I was thinking about this...for some reason, and I realized a question mark signifies thought about the question as much as it asks for an answer. Rhetorical questions seem aimed at enticing the reader to think about the question, rather than immediately coming up with an answer.

Because of that, I'd suggest maybe using a question mark at the beginning of a sentence to signify the difference, but that wouldn't work since it's not always clear when to separate the two. For example, I'm the type of person that sees most questions as rhetorical even when they may not be intended that way by the writer. So I'm not sure they should be separated; they are like two sides of the same coin to me.

 

[Polaris]

I don't see a problem with omitting a question mark (in an informal context) for a sentence not intended to produce an answer. In the worst case, those sentences can come across a tad passive-aggressive, depending on context. Therefore, I seldom use that style to avoid being misunderstood.

Uhm, that poll.....

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

In speech, at least where I live, it is possible to change intonation so that a sentence is understood as a question or that it's understood as a rhetorical question. There is a difference in intonation.

Question has an accent on the end:
. . . X
Rhetorical question has an accent before the end:
. . X .

Usually, rhetorical questions can be preceded with words like, maybe, possibly, probably, etc.

Assuming that the basic role of writing is to emulate the speech, rhetorical questions can be represented both with and without a question mark.

Not using a question mark in a written (non-rhetorical) question is rather confusing in that sense.

The usage of punctuation and various other forms depends on the author and on his/her ability to express, as does the burden of understanding rest on the reader.

Sarcasm and irony in speech are used rather freely, sometimes the author wants their message to be interpreted certain way and sometimes they just want to disguise it. The same can happen in writing.

There are also cases of misinterpretation and misunderstanding, which are rather common in the realm of communication between two entities using different sets of associations/meanings.

The kind of proposed change wouldn't reduce the amount of misunderstanding. It is possible to teach children a protocol of communication and it's called formal communication. Most of these problems happen in the informal communication and then it may be possible that miscommunication is the intended element of the informal message.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Simply put, question marks should be used when the grammatical structure proposes a question, ie: "Are you at home?" vs. "You are at home." (notice the placement of the verb 'are').

As to expectations of an answer...heh, yeah right. My only advice is to get the grammar correct and consult a psychiatrist for the expectations.

 

[Grayman]

In speech, at least where I live, it is possible to change intonation so that a sentence is understood as a question or that it's understood as a rhetorical question. There is a difference in intonation.

Question has an accent on the end:
. . . X
Rhetorical question has an accent before the end:
. . X .

Usually, rhetorical questions can be preceded with words like, maybe, possibly, probably, etc.

Good observations.

Assuming that the basic role of writing is to emulate the speech, rhetorical questions can be represented both with and without a question mark.

Maybe an issue more for vocal thinkers.... My thoughts are visual, object, and concepual. Thoughts that are vocal play a minor role in my understanding. Just an observation on why maybe I prefer a question mark based on intention vs vocal understanding.

 

[Grayman]

You can as long as you keep proper usage in mind and do not shatter all ties with it. Many unconventional or unacknowledged parts of speech still work because they're close enough to proper usage to be understood. The issue isn't deviating from the norm so much as being honest about whether that deviation enhances meaning or degrades it.

To me, the following to sentences are subtly different:

"It doesn't affect you at all, so why do you even care?"
"It doesn't affect you at all, so why do you even care."

They are both rhetorical. With the former, it's something I want you to think about even though I don't expect an answer. I am engaging you with the question to make a point. With the latter, I'm saying I don't really acknowledge your right to care; the conversation is over. Spoken out loud, the difference would exist in intonation and inflexion, so I may actually write it that way. It would be very uncommon, though, and to be honest, I'm not sure any reader out there actually does notice the difference or care even if they do.

I guess I neglected to consider the 'attitude' of the speaker as Jenny pointed out earlier. I still haven't decided if it is better to force the speaker to be honest about their obstinate attitude by these new rules or not.