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PUA derail from "friend or more?"

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
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The notion that women choose is more a visual than reality.

We don't choose when our options are limited. When a woman ( or a man ) are raised propagandized to find only X + Y + Z worth their time they are fooled even before they've had a chance to choose to only chase one guy. Or hope that one guy chases them.

I've seen it a multitude of times where a woman is chased by an ordinary guy and she tells him she's involved, or she's got some kind of other excuse to friend zone him. He's perfect for her but she can't see it because the first 16 years of her life Mtv was telling her some other guy was perfect for her.

The fact Romans married off their girls at a young age shows that they, not we, were far wiser on the subject of human behavior. The sole intent is to preserve her prospects as the parents were much wiser and knew well ahead of time that her perception was malleable. She would find happiness in an event she didn't choose.

I know Indian women who have been arranged for marriage by their parents who have told me they were completely fine with it. So don't believe the bunk pushed by the left that arranged marriages were generally bad business where little girls were raped by old men. There is always a truth in everything.

I don't have the papers on it right now, but they are pretty easy to find: there has been extensive research done which showed that in the past, much more women than men contributed to the human gene pool. This means that a lot more men than women died without reproducing, which quite clearly shows that women have always been the choosers.

There is also a very intuitive reason for that. A woman takes much more reproductive risk when she is mating; she is the one having to carry the child for 9 months inside her, then give birth (which was probably very dangerous in prehistoric times), and then having to take care of it. The guy can inseminate women all over the place without being physically tied to the consequence.

I think men throughout history have tried to devise cultural environments which reduced the selection power of women, but that has usually been by done via weird shit like the stuff you described. In particular, religions have been very apt at that kind of thing.
 

OmoInisa

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Re: PUA derail from "friend or more?"

I don't have the papers on it right now, but they are pretty easy to find: there has been extensive research done which showed that in the past, much more women than men contributed to the human gene pool. This means that a lot more men than women died without reproducing, which quite clearly shows that women have always been the choosers.

Or perhaps the more prosaic reason is that there was simply a pretty constant gender imbalance, due to incessant warfare.
Besides, in many cultures, the men towards the top of the social hierarchy hoarded women, which had implications for the availability of women to men further down the hierarchy.
Owing to the first point, this wasn't usually as problematic as it might have otherwise been (on the contrary, the practice perhaps evolved out of the necessity).
 

Pyropyro

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You need one of these Pyro

s-l1000.jpg

Thanks Fukyo!

I need this to max my Swag stat and increase the radius of mah pimpin' aura. Hey, you can't have too much swag right?
 

nanook

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what about boob sizes then?

Intolerable, do you come from a poor country, where people are primarily concerned with survival, or do you lack any excuse for your views at all? Since parents know, what traits are needed, to survive in a particular society and infrastructure, they are best equipped to choose a good survival partner for the future of their children, given society and infrastructure have not changed from what these parents grew up with themselves. Today, this situation no longer exists. The few survival obsessed parents who grew up in war times and want to put the fear of material necessities into their children are actually destroying their children, because these children need to survive in modern/post-modern societies, where you need only one skill to survive (or rather prosper in middle class, since you can always survive on social security) and that is individualistic confidence, self knowledge and the willingness to experiment/be flexible with social roles, in a word rational or pluralist developmental altitude. Parents can never know about the individualistic talents of their offspring, in this regard, as children must discover and develop them on the way. Traditional people had not developed such rational and pluralistic skills at all, neither men nor women, so nothing was taken away from them subjectively, when they had to live a life that has no room for individualistic expression and experiment. This is why they agreed with the lifestyle and chose to push it on their children.

http://i.imgur.com/EijTfRJ.jpg
 

nanook

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I myself was raised by parents who grew up in the middle of world war 2. Buried in cellars of bombed houses or escaping from hordes of raping killing soldiers. My mother has just barely enough individualistic values to allow for some limited artistic self expression (art isn't consequential) and while we (my sister and I) were not allowed to meet a lot of people on parties (had to be home in time, had to stay within a small physical radius), they did not dare to make open suggestions about whom we should date, except to criticize the one's we did. But my father still wanted me to join the army, to prove that i am a real man. Can you believe it? What an idiot. Almost like the average american dad. Married to patriotism and traditionalism. I did my duty year of civil service doing nursing.
 

kora

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As a side note, I think I've stumbled on to something. Average penis size appears to be smaller in regions where women are traditionally less empowered to choose their mate. I realize the connection is still conjecture at this point, but I'd like to see a study comparing the length of time in which forced/arranged marriage practices have been common, and the size of the average fuck-stick.


Hello! I think I'm gonna need to move to Venezuela..


Omg look at the Islamic state region.

(BTW I love you)
 

WALKYRIA

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hey guys what is this post exactly about?
 

kora

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Basically vague ramblings around the PUA and female male relationships theme. We scared Jenny off with it :D.
 

WALKYRIA

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MMmh, PUA are great in that they use the behavioral quirks of human beings for their personal and legitimate interests. The more power to them.

The greatests things I've learned with PUA is what many people instinctively know(just not experienced as uch as experienced PUA) and can be reduced to few principles:
- First impression is powerful( use it).
- Women don't know what they really want.( Use that shit).
- People are in a logic of hypergamy(they want a bit more) ( Use that shit).

The rest is bullshit but once you get these three principles right you are good.
ALso PUA can benefit to introverted types and can help them develop their secondary and last function(the extraverted functions)... They basically learn social skills. PUA helped me developping my Ne and Fe. tis cool.
 

kora

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*wanders off to look for Jenny*

Guess I don't know what I really want :p
 

Pyropyro

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Intolerable

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I don't have the papers on it right now, but they are pretty easy to find: there has been extensive research done which showed that in the past, much more women than men contributed to the human gene pool. This means that a lot more men than women died without reproducing, which quite clearly shows that women have always been the choosers.

There is also a very intuitive reason for that. A woman takes much more reproductive risk when she is mating; she is the one having to carry the child for 9 months inside her, then give birth (which was probably very dangerous in prehistoric times), and then having to take care of it. The guy can inseminate women all over the place without being physically tied to the consequence.

I think men throughout history have tried to devise cultural environments which reduced the selection power of women, but that has usually been by done via weird shit like the stuff you described. In particular, religions have been very apt at that kind of thing.

It's an interesting point though I wonder how much of an impression war has had on them. Historically speaking there has been very few female armies. Up until probably 50 years ago life was much harder for men than it was women. I don't mean pregnancy which could outright kill an ill-prepared woman. I mean just in the regular daily life. Exposure to mining, asbestos in construction sites, etc. It doesn't even have to be war.

We're just far more comfortable as a species to send males into high risk situations than we are females.

I do not think arranged marriages an attempt by men to subdue a woman. I think they legitimately did not want their daughter to fall in love with a loser who could not support the family.

I would ask you and Nanook objectively speaking are women today better positioned for a healthy marriage than women of say, 200 years past? I look around me and I don't see it. I think freedom of choice can ruin your life. I know at least we argue that when it comes to age of consent.

@Nanook I grew up in an American ghetto. So I probably don't have the pluralistic views of others in my life. I would attribute that to hard examples of seeing women choose, fail and ruin their lives as a result. Perhaps ruin is too strong a word. Degraded may be more appropriate.

How do you ask a person if their life is better arranged or not? They would never know objectively but someone on the outside looking in with comparisons to draw from would. In this case I consider myself the fly on the wall watching both my siblings and friends of friends. How they were raised and what choices they made as a result certainly impacted their outcomes. If choices change our outcomes and choices are molded by our experience in the world then it stands to reason experience could hurt our progress long term
 

Intolerable

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Maybe I'm alone here, but tired of this fountain of perpetual bullshit you seem tapped into. I realize that I'd be wasting my time responding, if this was only for your benefit, but looking at the big picture, I think it should be on record that this crap really is Intolerable.

I don't expect everyone to be happy with it. It probably seemed as though I was directly talking about women when I was actually referring to this in context of the discussion about women. Objectively both men and women suffer this problem.

Nevertheless, I prefer to condescend in a dialogue format, so I will make these concepts as simple as possible for you.
Ok, we'll settle for simple. Have at it.

Despite current cultural dynamics resulting from globalization and overcrowding, human penis size alone provides pulsating, engorged evidence that sexual selection has fallen squarely on the female of the species throughout at least the majority of human history/evolution. Human penises are gigantic compared to other primates.
You mean like horse cocks? Are horses and their enormous brains only submitting their enormous vaginas to studs with enormous cocks?

Or is it just a physical reality that males with larger cocks are more successful breeders?

I would argue that some species have a very easy time reproducing so small cocks and large cocks carry the same success ratio.

Why are we breeding larger schlongs, you may ask? It all comes down to the size of our.... brains. Humans have much larger brains than other primates. It necessitates a much larger birth canal ("vagina"). Now, a small, dissatisfying penis can still impregnate a woman as well as a larger one (our natural lubricant is also slightly spermicidal). The problem is, it's not very pleasureable (the kama sutra just isn't enough. Amirte, ladies?). So, women have been breeding men to have larger and larger penises, which are more stimulating to our bigger vaginas, which are accommodating our ridiculously big-headed babies.
I fail to see what brain size has to do with cock size. Perhaps you've overlooked something fairly simple here.

Last I checked women generally don't think a longer cock makes them get off any faster. Probably because all the nerve endings in your vagina are on the outside, not inside.

You caught us. We're all Beliebers.

The following is textbook material, and so no one is really bothering with these basic concepts in everyday studies. I could list some textbooks for you, but I don't expect you to read them. I'll summarize.

Men (as a rule) like healthy women. Pretty women are healthy.

Women (as a rule) like men who are expressive and seem capable of providing resources and protection during the vulnerable years of pregnancy and early child-rearing.
Oh come off that horseshit. Ok, maybe you just don't know what I'm referring to. I'll put it this way. In America, it is completely normal these days for a seemingly beautiful, normal woman with a great job to be stuck with a gorilla with a low IQ, poor social skills and no job! This is actually the most common thing going in American ghettos these days. A horde of children following behind a mother they will never impress in Academics, in a professional way and probably not a cultural way.

So pray tell how that is possible given your 'rule' posted above? Do you think they're happy?

Of course, these things are partially contextual. The ecosystem and available resources, along with population size, dynamics and lifestyle, are all important contextual factors that affect views of health and prosperity. However, this isn't brainwashing, propaganda, or whatever you tell yourself when you're feeling lonely.
I wasn't thinking of my lonely self when I was writing this. I was thinking of the last time some angry lady was bitching to me about her fucked up boyfriend who I could have told her years ago was a waste of her time. Too bad the tattoos and the one liners were her kryptonite eh? I wonder why that is..

You're right, of course. The Romans were progressive humanitarians, and dedicated nurturers of the human spirit. From their tyrannical leaders to their military decimations, genocidal campaigns, thriving slave trade for sex and labor, and their incredible insight regarding the barbarian races, it's no wonder they we so forward-thinking about the fate of their young women. I agree that we could all learn a thing or two from their example.
Do you always paint in such giant brush strokes?

A people can be complete barbarians and still have a superior way of doing something.

What can I say? Women are stupid. I mean, who are we to have a say in who we have sex with? Our vapid, impressionable minds just can't handle those big, important decisions.
I'll correct you. I assumed you took it the wrong way and you did. Allow me to fix this.

PEOPLE ARE ARE STUPID. This is precisely why adults hold consent for young people ( who are most prone to being stupid ).

That's really all arranged marriages were. A way to prevent a young human from wrecking her life.

I'm so embarrassed. I wish I had read this before I even started. You know women. I mean, with evidence like this, I don't know why we even bother with books and reading and all that wasteful sciencey stuff.
I don't think science disagrees.

As a side note, I think I've stumbled on to something. Average penis size appears to be smaller in regions where women are traditionally less empowered to choose their mate. I realize the connection is still conjecture at this point, but I'd like to see a study comparing the length of time in which forced/arranged marriage practices have been common, and the size of the average fuck-stick.


Hello! I think I'm gonna need to move to Venezuela..
Well it probably does ring true because in those societies, large cocks attached to useless assholes don't get used nearly as much where it matters. Maybe they should come here. You don't need a job to breed in America. :smoker:
 

Sinny91

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They don't get to decide if they are chosen for procreation. In a power neutral scenario and 0 violence or coercion. They are always applicants.

Ya this. I've had to tell 2 serious applicants thus far - Application, denied!

One of the them was a very serious affair which involved a complicated power struggle. (In some aspects)
 

Tannhauser

angry insecure male
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It's an interesting point though I wonder how much of an impression war has had on them. Historically speaking there has been very few female armies. Up until probably 50 years ago life was much harder for men than it was women. I don't mean pregnancy which could outright kill an ill-prepared woman. I mean just in the regular daily life. Exposure to mining, asbestos in construction sites, etc. It doesn't even have to be war.

We're just far more comfortable as a species to send males into high risk situations than we are females.
I think the point about war is erroneous in this context. One has to realize that wars didn't really happen until large parts of the world became agriculturized and condensed into large cities/countries, starting about 3000 BC. These last 5000 years is a blink of the eye in the context of evolution. But maybe men have always had the propensity to kamikaze themselves out of the gene pool? That doesn't make sense either, because such genes would of course become weeded out a long time ago
 

Intolerable

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I think the point about war is erroneous in this context. One has to realize that wars didn't really happen until large parts of the world became agriculturized and condensed into large cities/countries, starting about 3000 BC. These last 5000 years is a blink of the eye in the context of evolution. But maybe men have always had the propensity to kamikaze themselves out of the gene pool? That doesn't make sense either, because such genes would of course become weeded out a long time ago

Kamikaze probably isn't the right way to identify it.

There is a cultural expectation for men to step up and take the high risk positions. Just look at the fight over women being in special forces for the US gov.

Hearty Nomadic tribes like Neanderthals were a bit more equal which probably had more to do with necessity than anything. It wasn't as though they were going to stay home and raise children or fabricate clothing.

It changed for us at some point. My guess is that life got easier in ways that allowed it to change. We saw clear advantages in gender roles. Not just for military but labor too.
 

Pyropyro

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I think the point about war is erroneous in this context. One has to realize that wars didn't really happen until large parts of the world became agriculturized and condensed into large cities/countries, starting about 3000 BC. These last 5000 years is a blink of the eye in the context of evolution. But maybe men have always had the propensity to kamikaze themselves out of the gene pool? That doesn't make sense either, because such genes would of course become weeded out a long time ago

This is regarding the propensity of men to kamikaze themselves: It helps their genes survive in the long run.

Reproductive altruism has its perks not for the individual but for their genetic and memetic legacy. For every "kamikaze" man out there (let's call them heroes for this post), they are protecting their kids, siblings and parents which should have similar copies of genes. By sacrificing themselves, they keep the other carriers of their genes. We can call this kin selection.

Of course, given that human altruism is both nature (you can see this in insects such as ants; after all the fertile new queen is still their sister and has copies of their genes) and nurture (in eastern cultures, it's not abnormal to see firstborns prefer not to get children until their siblings become independent and capable of starting their own families), the definition of "kin" stops just from being "gene carrier" but also "culture carrier".

For the sake of argument, "cowards" who don't act on their altruistic genes may risk losing their relatives thus diminishing the chances of their genes to pass to the next generation. If their culture values valor then the coward will also have a problem getting a mate while those who are associated with the "heroes" have a better chance of finding a mate.
 

Yellow

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This is regarding the propensity of men to kamikaze themselves: It helps their genes survive in the long run.

Reproductive altruism has its perks not for the individual but for their genetic and memetic legacy. For every "kamikaze" man out there (let's call them heroes for this post), they are protecting their kids, siblings and parents which should have similar copies of genes. By sacrificing themselves, they keep the other carriers of their genes. We can call this kin selection.

Of course, given that human altruism is both nature (you can see this in insects such as ants; after all the fertile new queen is still their sister and has copies of their genes) and nurture (in eastern cultures, it's not abnormal to see firstborns prefer not to get children until their siblings become independent and capable of starting their own families), the definition of "kin" stops just from being "gene carrier" but also "culture carrier".

For the sake of argument, "cowards" who don't act on their altruistic genes may risk losing their relatives thus diminishing the chances of their genes to pass to the next generation. If their culture values valor then the coward will also have a problem getting a mate while those who are associated with the "heroes" have a better chance of finding a mate.
Excellent point!

Also, women are generally on the lookout for potentially "brave" men, and offer ample mating opportunities. This makes sense, of course, as they'd appear willing/able to make huge sacrifices to protect the family unit.

Of course, those who are too "brave" wreck themselves (before they check themselves) out of the gene pool before they get to mate.
 
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