Powerful imagination

[Mondorius]

I was reading the "giving too much information" thread and something caught my eye.

Since we tend to be in our brains more then others when we become really good at imagination techniques we can sometimes trick our brains into thinking that our imaginations are real. When taken to extremes we can become completely delusional.

I found this interesting. How would you qualify your capacity to imagine?

I know I'm able to reproduce a lot of perceptions in my mind. I'm able to reproduce touch, sound and taste quite vividly. In fact, I can usually completely shut myself away from reality if there is no disturbing noise around or if I'm listening to good music. Now, I have a bad sense of smell and poor visual memory, so vision is usually blurry, like in a dream and smell is usually completely forgotten but other than that, I think I could almost reproduce sex in my mind. I had never given it that much thought. It kind of scares me now.

 

[Bird]

I think we call this schizophrenia.

 

[Mondorius]

...but no. Schizophrenia is the brain producing too much of a chemical whose name I forgot. It causes you to hear things and that's it, which is practically the only thing I have trouble faking. I'm very perceptive of sound. I can't bubble up without sufficient silence or good music to cover up the mess.

Sorry to disappoint.

Quick edit to show just how much noise affects me: when the power goes out, I feel so relieved. Strong electrical current makes a buzzing noise. I can tell if a cathodic TV is on from pretty far even if the screen is black / I can't see it just because it produces noise.

 

[gruesomebrat]

Schizophrenia is the brain producing too much of a chemical whose name I forgot. It causes you to hear things and that's it, which is practically the only thing I have trouble faking.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it difficult to tell the difference between real and unreal experiences, to think logically, to have normal emotional responses, and to behave normally in social situations.

Schizophrenia may have a variety of symptoms. Usually the illness develops slowly over months or years. Like other chronic illnesses, schizophrenia cycles between periods of fewer symptoms and periods of more symptoms.
At first, you may feel tense, or have trouble sleeping or concentrating. You can become isolated and withdrawn, and have trouble making or keeping friends.
As the illness continues, psychotic symptoms develop:

• Appearance or mood that shows no emotion (flat affect)
• Bizarre movements that show less of a reaction to the environment (catatonic behavior)
• False beliefs or thoughts that are not based in reality (delusions)
• Hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there (hallucinations)

Problems with thinking often occur:

• Problems paying attention
• Thoughts "jump" between unrelated topics (disordered thinking)

Symptoms can be different depending on the type of schizophrenia:

• Paranoid types often feel anxious, are more often angry or argumentative, and falsely believe that others are trying to harm them or their loved ones.
• Disorganized types have problems thinking and expressing their ideas clearly, often exhibit childlike behavior, and frequently show little emotion.
• Catatonic types may be in a constant state of unrest, or they may not move or be underactive. Their muscles and posture may be rigid. They may grimace or have other odd facial expressions, and they may be less responsive to others.
• Undifferentiated types may have symptoms of more than one other type of schizophrenia.
• Residual types experience some symptoms, but not as many as those who are in a full-blown episode of schizophrenia.

People with any type of schizophrenia may have difficulty keeping friends and working. They may also have problems with anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts or behaviors.

Link to PubMed Health: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925/

 

[Yet]

ow goody ... lets do online diagnoses, tsss

nb in schizofrenia hallucinations are unintentional, uncontrollable and the person gets deluded by them.

@Mondorius
Do you think it might have something to do with your bad sense of smell and vision Mondorius? Imagination is a powerfull tool and always plays on the 'senses' but you seem to have develloped it to som remarkable extent.

b.t.w it is very common that people with bad vision are very sensitive to sound .. it is a 'canal' that gets stronger and it can be very tiresome.

 

[gruesomebrat]

ow goody ... lets do online diagnoses, tsss

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest a diagnosis, just wanted to point out that schizophrenics don't only hear things that aren't there. I wanted to point out that there are a variety of different symptoms of the disease and it can manifest itself in many ways.

In response to the OP, my ability to imagine differs on what I'm doing at the time, and on what I'm trying to imagine. For instance, if I'm reading a book, I can vividly imagine the scenes portrayed in that book. At those times, my imagination is so good that the scenes I envision from the book are as real to me, sometimes more real, than my actual surroundings. There have been countless times that I have found myself lost in the world of a book, and when I come out, I realize that I've read 3/4 of the book without having any memory of the words that I read, or even of flipping the pages, and yet I'm able to recall the basic plotline of the story so far.

If I'm attempting to recollect a face from memory, though, the best I can do is come up with a crude caricature of the person. Recognizing an acquaintance is more of a intuitive thing for me than being able to compare a person's face to a mental image of them, and saying "Yup, I know this person".

 

[Yet]

@gruesomebrat

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest a diagnosis, just wanted to point out that schizophrenics don't only hear things that aren't there. I wanted to point out that there are a variety of different symptoms of the disease and it can manifest itself in many ways.

I see, excuse me

If I'm attempting to recollect a face from memory, though, the best I can do is come up with a crude caricature of the person. Recognizing an acquaintance is more of a intuitive thing for me than being able to compare a person's face to a mental image of them, and saying "Yup, I know this person".

I read that recognizing people has got a lot to do with the way they move and sound (and smell) as well. The visual info is just one component.
I do not recall where I read it, some sort of study or it could be a documentary.

It is a lot harder to recognize someone who is motionless. (sound of footstep, sound of someones laughter, little gestures, facial movements, the way they 'hold their body', etc.) Takes more time or something, if you miss that sort of info I don't remember the details.

 

[Mondorius]

@Yet: Well, maybe. My feeling is that it's probably more of a memory thing than the perceptions themselves. The fact is that I have never tried creating something I've never felt before. That is why I said reproduce and not produce. My vision isn't so bad, but I don't remember visual things nearly as much as sound...

@gruesomebrat: I guess I did simplify schizophrenia, but afaik you don't normally see or feel things, mostly hear. Now I'm no professionnal, but I do have a schizophrenic friend and I did read into it. I imagine seeing and feeling things happens mostly in extreme cases.

Back on topic, yeah, what I'm doing and my mood will affect my ability to imagine things realistically significantly. The book thing rarely happens to me, but it does if I particularly like and relate to the book.

As for recognizing people, I'm becoming worse and worse at it. Might have to do with meeting more and more people as life goes on... I blame that tribal memory thing that lets us remember about 150 persons before we stop caring/start having trouble.

But really, I was curious about this INTP in their brains thing. Yet, you sound like you're having trouble imagining things, or should I say you have a bad memory? Maybe it really doesn't have anything to do with thinking types...

 

[Yet]

@Mondorius

Yet, you sound like you're having trouble imagining things, or should I say you have a bad memory? Maybe it really doesn't have anything to do with thinking types...

I was giving some general info really about how people recognize each other.

I have a very vivid imagination, especially visual-spacial and for situations. And hell yeah .. I have a horrible memory for details, names, numbers... you got that one right.
I think it has to do with how I approach info: how do things interact, the whole picture and relationships is what I try to understand and from that point how to influence it in a creative way. Details are very hard to recall but the big pictures and movements between segments is what 'sticks'.

 

[crippli]

I imagine seeing and feeling things happens mostly in extreme cases.

Are not most people schizophrenics with feeling things? It's just called irrational because it is the norm?

 

[pjoa09]

i tend to imagine music videos for my songs while i listen to them.

masturbate with imagination.

i don't know.. i tend to prefer imagining ditzy lights and stuff. And I can just bring them lights with my eyes open.

i can sort of imagine how something would feel..

but the illusions never manifest themselves.. they remain as imaginations.. I have yet to encounter my vivid erotic imaginations as an illusion.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

So, we have:
- reproducing sensual experiences
- imagining scenes based directly from a stimulus (in this case a book)

- imagining videos from music
- imagining new scenarios, imagining how something would feel

pjoa90: what type do you think you are? I see you've considered ISTP - do you understand the Ne-Si vs. Ni-Se divide yet?

any others: can you provide more descriptions, and note which previous descriptions apply to you?

The latter descriptions apply better to myself.

 

[Yet]

from the sets you describe the two 'pairs' the second ones apply to me.
where can I find more info on that Ne-Si etc.? I am not familiar with that.

 

[Bird]

Edit: nevermind, read entire thread.

 

[Zionoxis]

I have extremely good visual memory and horrible audible and nasal (don't know the proper term for that one) memory. My imagination has always gotten me attention from my teachers. I have always been labeled as the one who thinks, "Outside the box". I hardly ever think inside of it (even when they want me to).

PS: Mondorius, your avatar is amazing. And here I thought I was the only one who watched that anime. Too bad she hasn't resumed the anime. :/

 

[Mondorius]

@Artsu Tharaz: I associate a lot more with the first part than the second, but it's not a black or white thing as far as I'm concerned.

@Zionoxis: Thanks. It's actually far from being my favorite anime, but I like the character a lot... Also, the reason why she hasn't resumed has to be because you were the only one watching! ( The manga's still on-going... )

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Link to PubMed Health: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925/

Damn it will people stop posting mental illness symptoms sometimes?
I always get so paranoid I might have something like that. Luckily I don't really suffer from hallucinations, probably not from delusions either.

But uhm alright... I have a very vivid imagination, I often drift off in my own fantasies in the daytime, not hearing and seeing what is really happening. I do still see and hear everything normally, but it's like all my brain's energy is focused inwards then, on my imagination.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I don't want to be a schizophrenic!

 

[Yet]

nâh .. must give you a terrible headache, schizo - phrenia, your corpus callosum must be in a right state.

 

[Trebuchet]

It is a skill to develop good sensory visualization. Being able to do that well doesn't mean you are hallucinating.

Swimmers use the technique regularly to improve their strokes. The more vivid the imagination, the more it helps. Here is one article on it. The brain appears to accept such vivid images as genuine practice.

So, I guess you shouldn't visualize things you don't want your brain to be practicing.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Swimmers use the technique regularly to improve their strokes. The more vivid the imagination, the more it helps. Here is one article on it. The brain appears to accept such vivid images as genuine practice.

So, I guess you shouldn't visualize things you don't want your brain to be practicing.

That's amazing!
Somewhat worrying too, though. If you worry too much about something, and are a rather visual person...

 

[socialexpat]

To reply you Gruesomebrat on the post about PubMed Health:

Interesting read, i better pass this on to some one who is uneducated about this mental illness who goes on about Delusions and being Delusional.... He thinks he is the all knowing person judging by his forced talk about it .. As if he wants to convince someone into the thought of being Delusional while that person doesn't have the Symptoms of suffering the mental illness called Schizophrenia.

Thanks for the post.

 

[crippli]

The thing is....when online, I think it's difficult to know know what is real or not.

 

[dark]

I find I have a nice imagination. I can identify with pretty much all 4 points Artsu Tharaz mentioned.

When reading I visualize everything, even when it is something I dislike. I can easily recreate sensual memories/experiences. I thought everyone would create videos to music... I also thought that creating new scenarios was a normal thing. I tend to do this quite often while bored.

I am quite blind, but my visual memory is quite good. I suck at remembering names or things like that though.

I really think that the imagination has to do with how well we use our right brain. According to online tests, which I am not sure how well those can be trusted, but I range really high on the right side, which is kind of odd since it suggests I use very little left side. Last test gave me 20L/80R .

All of my imagination I think comes from my memory. I can also create new things from all of it too. Sound, touch, visual, taste, but smell I don't know how to recreate into an imagination. I do have a theory that all garbage cans have the same smell... which I always joked around after the movie "The Matrix" came out that the garbage cans proved that we were in the Matrix because they couldn't figure out how to make them smell different.

My favorite thing to imagine is the feeling of things. Mostly touch, I have tried to imagine emotions, but that just brings me into weird feelings. Of course some imaginations are no where near as good as the real thing. I am sure I could never imagine sex like the OP suggested. There would just be too many things to reproduce. And I am not good with smell, I really don't think my nose does anything until an intense smell shows up. I mean I can actively smell things when I want, but I don't always notice this sense like I do the others.

When a kiss lingers for days, is that the imagination or is there something else making it last?

 

[Darby]

I only read about half the thread(I'm horrible, I know) but this thread reminded me of a time a few weeks ago when I was writing notes on my hand on the bus, and ran out of room on my left hand, and started thinking about writing them on my right, and I did this for about 2-3 minutes before I realized I was "feeling" two different right arms, one that was writing, and one that was being written on. once I realized it I couldn't reproduce it quite so well however

Also, I think through sounds, and am almost always talking to myself in my head, I have yet to get it to the point where I am hearing real voices, but it has certainly reduced my perception of outside noise to almost nothing.

Sight I can do when there is nothing to get in the way, as in everything is black.

Touch is the one I'm best at recreating, Smell and Taste are so low on my radar normally that I have serious difficulty even remembering what anything tasted/smelled like, much less recreating it.

 

[JarNew]

I was reading the "giving too much information" thread and something caught my eye.

I found this interesting. How would you qualify your capacity to imagine?

I know I'm able to reproduce a lot of perceptions in my mind. I'm able to reproduce touch, sound and taste quite vividly. In fact, I can usually completely shut myself away from reality if there is no disturbing noise around or if I'm listening to good music. Now, I have a bad sense of smell and poor visual memory, so vision is usually blurry, like in a dream and smell is usually completely forgotten but other than that, I think I could almost reproduce sex in my mind. I had never given it that much thought. It kind of scares me now.

After about 5 days without sleep I fell so deeply into my own imagination that I ended up in a mental hospital. I was extremely delusional and ended up spending a month in the mental hospital where my delusions were only strengthened by the occurences I experienced. Although I was delusional and totally out of touch with reality I was still able to function and communicate and conversate with others as if I was sane. My delusions even motivated me to do things I never would have in my normal sane state; maybe because I believed my life and my families life depended on the actions I took but regardless, imagination is an amazingly powerful thing when understood, exercised, and embraced.

Paradigms o how nice dey can be, yet sometimes so scary
yes...
....yes...
............yes

 

[Melkor]

I don't think there is anything especially incorrect about such a pursuit...
I often give much more credibility and time to my fictions than I do to my facts.

After all, reality is just another form of perception, just like imagination, and why should a world we have influence over be any less real than one which is indifferent to us?

 

[The Habitat Doctor]

I have these traits as well, more so when it involves "my" system (ecology). For example, I can visualize and track things like trophic cascade and nutrient dynamics throughout an ecosystem in real time as I walk through it. When I'm creating a plan to build something, I can literally pop up a 3-D mental image and shift it at will, interchanging parts/components and such.

I've also had a song in my head every day 24/7 since I can remember, and unless I'm in a situation where I'm unable to concentrate, I can "play" it at will, sometimes repeating certain parts, sometimes the whole song, sometimes switching songs completely. On days I can't concentrate, I can have 2 or 3 playing at once (such as Walk Idiot Walk by the Hives and For Whom the Bell Tolls by Metallica, which is what was playing the first time I noticed it happen), or something previously nonexistent, like a cross between Chaka Kahn, Marilyn Manson, and the Chemical Brothers without discernable lyrics. This phenomenon increases with lack of sleep.

Memories regarding taste and smell are rare for me.

 

[Geminii]

I only read about half the thread(I'm horrible, I know) but this thread reminded me of a time a few weeks ago when I was writing notes on my hand on the bus, and ran out of room on my left hand, and started thinking about writing them on my right, and I did this for about 2-3 minutes before I realized I was "feeling" two different right arms, one that was writing, and one that was being written on. once I realized it I couldn't reproduce it quite so well however

I've thought about what having four arms would feel like so often (everything down to the shift in weight and center of mass, and things like reaching forward with one left arm and back with the other) that I can very easily replicate the mental sensations.

Given sufficient brain sensor gubbins, I honestly believe I'd be able to control four arms and hands with at least moderate dexterity after only a couple of hours' practice and feedback.

Relatedly, I must have dreamed hundreds, if not thousands of hours of exactly what telekinesis would feel like. Being able to feel the position and weight of something hanging in midair... I'm guessing it's using partial kinesthetic data, stripped of the relevant muscle memory. It feels weird, though, like having the driver loaded for an additional sense I don't have the hardware for.

 

[Yet]

@ Geminii
Your last post made me think of this:
they've done these studies about kinesthetic data and how it influences the brain ... very interesting. They made people play basketball (trying to score) for a certain time while having to wear an upside-down virtual reality thingie. The plasticity of the brain learned how to proces that info in a different way and they succeeded after a while.
Funny thing was that once the virtual reality-tool was removed they were not able to score and it took a little while getting used to normal perception info (shorter than learning to see the world upside down).

I play that sort of imagination games when I wake up. Lie awake for a while 'day-dreaming')
b.e once about what would the world look like if you were a being whose perception of movement would be remarkably slower (time-perception games in the head). b.e what would the sea look like (jelly as you would not see the tides), what would the earth crust look like (popping mountains fading down), organisms would be invisible, some sort of buzz or warmth perhaps, as we move to fast for a very slow perceptor ...
Funny, you seem to do the same sort of imaginary games on different subjects.