Please help. Obsessed with attaining academic prestige.

[intprovising]

Over the past months my thoughts have been seriously adulterated by a constant nagging. I truly value academics. I love reading, educating myself, etc. It does not help that I attend a flagship state university, where many students give little shits. Coupled with a fear of failure, and perhaps wanting to make obvious my self values through societal means (university), I have become quite self deprecating. As if, unless I can attach myself to a prestigious school, so much of how I define myself will not be interpreted by employers, acquaintances, whomever. It's silly. Smart people go to low ranking schools and dumb people go to high ranking schools all the time. Society is superficial in it's idolization of the Ivy League. Yet it makes it no less true. Why not play the game; get the in on the system? I can be just as educated but if the world wants a name, why not go for the name?

I relish an authentic academic environment, surrounded by ideas, excitement, and the ambitious. I don't have that where I am. Thus my mind obsesses with transferring. Gathering statistics, looking for ways to pay for private tuition, emailing admissions boards. It pollutes my daily thoughts.

And yet my friend group, as unmotivated academically as they are, understand me. And our relationship is fantastic. How could I think to leave that for a second? No one with more pronounced emotions would give up potential lifelong friends for an institution, would they? If I think I'm intelligent then to hell with where this diploma came from! Right... right? Does this world work like that?

I don't know anymore. It's a constant back and forth that is unnecessary, and I'm frankly sick of it. Please help me with your advice.




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[Cherry Cola]

Are you sure you're not an INTJ?

 

[Absurdity]

As someone who transferred to the Ivy League I'd say that having the name on the resume makes an enormous difference, but don't expect your peers to be very deep or interested in learning for its own sake. This article hits the nail on the head:

Our system of elite education manufactures young people who are smart and talented and driven, yes, but also anxious, timid, and lost, with little intellectual curiosity and a stunted sense of purpose: trapped in a bubble of privilege, heading meekly in the same direction, great at what they’re doing but with no idea why they’re doing it.

 

[Analyzer]

Once you achieve academic prestige what follows?

You should also make sure you are indeed an INTP rather than an INTJ or possibly even ENTX. Usually INTP's care the least about academic prestige compared to those.

 

[intprovising]

As someone who transferred to the Ivy League I'd say that having the name on the resume makes an enormous difference, but don't expect your peers to be very deep or interested in learning for its own sake. This article hits the nail on the head:

I read that article yesterday and it certainly resonated. It's common talk these days to bash the ivies, or as they would say, the longstanding bastions of privilege. The point is valid; you can certainly learn a similar amount if not more about the world elsewhere. But a meritocratic system doesn't allow that to matter. In reality, prestige matters, if only as a filter. I would love to be idealistic but It's all a game and the best strategy is to play into it.

Unless, of course, there's that greater meaning. Transcending human constructs, detaching from what the world values, although I'm not so sure this is the most fulfilling way to live.


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[Analyzer]

Unless, of course, there's that greater meaning. Transcending human constructs, detaching from what the world values, although I'm not so sure this is the most fulfilling way to live.

Ti<Te?

 

[intprovising]

Once you achieve academic prestige what follows?

You should also make sure you are indeed an INTP rather than an INTJ or possibly even ENTX. Usually INTP's care the least about academic prestige compared to those.

An array of possibilities that it would allow me. Because I value academics first, that is my primary concern.

As for the latter part, I'll certainly look more into it. While I border between P and J, my indecisiveness and messiness has led me to believe I'm the former.


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[Absurdity]

I read that article yesterday and it certainly resonated. It's common talk these days to bash the ivies, or as they would say, the longstanding bastions of privilege. The point is valid; you can certainly learn a similar amount if not more about the world elsewhere. But a meritocratic system doesn't allow that to matter. In reality, prestige matters, if only as a filter. I would love to be idealistic but It's all a game and the best strategy is to play into it.

Unless, of course, there's that greater meaning. Transcending human constructs, detaching from what the world values, although I'm not so sure this is the most fulfilling way to live.


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Wasn't saying you shouldn't go, just have realistic expectations. In fact if you have the opportunity I think you'd be crazy not to take it, assuming of course it wouldn't bankrupt your family to attend.

 

[EditorOne]

From the distant perspective of post-career existence: One of the usually unarticulated values of an Ivy League school is contacts. Most people, and of most people INTPs especially, have no concept of the value and role of a network of acquaintances who either know you, know of you, or know someone who does know you in advancing a career. Because we tend to gravitate to few but long-term friendships, the idea of finding meaningful commonality in mere shared attendance at a school doesn't rise to the conscious level of our thinking. But it is very, very real, and plays a major role in life success. You can have those at any college, of course, but the reality is that most of the students at an Ivy League school tend to have backgrounds and upbringing within a context of success in some form. So you're already making acquaintances who are within the context you seek, whether that is economic, social, academic, whatever.

Don't get sidetracked by the "Ivy League is smarter, more academic," whatever. That's somewhat true, but it's not what turns out to matter the most later in life. It really is who you know, even to get a chance to show what you can do. That's probably striking you as just dreadful, and of course it is, but it's also pretty much an insight I wish I'd had earlier in life.

 

[Pyropyro]

I've been working for the academe for a few years now. If you really want the prestige within the academic world then the start is being a doctorate. After that you should find a specialization only you are good at or study another hard field such as law.

Honestly I prefer hanging out with the research associates rather than play the prestige game with the smartest people on the planet (Unless it's a mentor-student relationship). It's much more fun, there's no need to overwhelm people with your prestige and they're easier on the eyes.

By the way, be careful of what you wish for. Prestige comes at a price of having insane amounts of responsibilities.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

From my experience, the ivies are no more capable than the rifraf. Though, the ivy league unis have more money to play around with.

 

[Pyropyro]

From my experience, the ivies are no more capable than the rifraf. Though, the ivy league unis have more money to play around with.

That happens in my country too. The government gives big money and good research projects to the top Universities.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I would just type something like what EditorOne said, so, read his post again.

 

[xbox]

Over the past months my thoughts have been seriously adulterated by a constant nagging. I truly value academics. I love reading, educating myself, etc. It does not help that I attend a flagship state university, where many students give little shits. Coupled with a fear of failure, and perhaps wanting to make obvious my self values through societal means (university), I have become quite self deprecating. As if, unless I can attach myself to a prestigious school, so much of how I define myself will not be interpreted by employers, acquaintances, whomever. It's silly. Smart people go to low ranking schools and dumb people go to high ranking schools all the time. Society is superficial in it's idolization of the Ivy League. Yet it makes it no less true. Why not play the game; get the in on the system? I can be just as educated but if the world wants a name, why not go for the name?

I relish an authentic academic environment, surrounded by ideas, excitement, and the ambitious. I don't have that where I am. Thus my mind obsesses with transferring. Gathering statistics, looking for ways to pay for private tuition, emailing admissions boards. It pollutes my daily thoughts.

And yet my friend group, as unmotivated academically as they are, understand me. And our relationship is fantastic. How could I think to leave that for a second? No one with more pronounced emotions would give up potential lifelong friends for an institution, would they? If I think I'm intelligent then to hell with where this diploma came from! Right... right? Does this world work like that?

I don't know anymore. It's a constant back and forth that is unnecessary, and I'm frankly sick of it. Please help me with your advice.




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Right now my mind is obsessing with pursuing academic prestige, I cant stop thinking about it, or researching about it. But part of my obsession is because I have failed before, then I overcame it, but now I want to go back to school.

I think you should do what makes you happy!

 

[Missfortune]

Society is superficial in it's idolization of the Ivy League. Yet it makes it no less true. Why not play the game; get the in on the system? I can be just as educated but if the world wants a name, why not go for the name?

I'm at an Ivy League and couldn't give two craps less about the name, but I'm also a grad student and maybe it makes less of a difference to us or something.

However, I didn't start out at an Ivy. I did a BS at a pretty bad school.

It could be true that if you'd look for jobs in a competitive field, the name of the school would matter. Otherwise, maybe it would be just a waste.

 

[The Introvert]

To second what most have said here:

The institution matters little, insofar as your intellectual desires are concerned. There will be students uninterested in education no matter where you decide to attend. So long as you have the means to satiate your interests (large library, resources, engaging professors [which, coincidentally, are probably available given your attendance at a large state school]) then you'll be fine.

[insert what everyone else has said]

 

[Ariel]

You're a P. If you were a J you probably wouldn't ask the question.

My college was a state school - great embracing atmosphere that helped me heal from prior BS of my life and grow academically in a supportive environment. Does anyone care about it now? Only me - that's good enough.

Then I went to law school at an Ivy League school. A tough, toughening atmosphere that challenged me on various levels (and yes, it IS a J career I wouldn't recommend to other INTPs, and I would've been happier as an economist or architect - ah, if I'd only known MBTI back then). So I grew further, in a non-supportive environment that made me stronger the hard way. Does anyone care about it now? Everyone but me. But I'll be the first to admit it's helped open doors. (And I'm not intimidated by other lawyers who've gotten Ivy League degrees, that's helped.)

At the end of the day, what you get out of it all is based on what you put in, no matter what brand name. But that doesn't negate the fact that others you encounter in your life will judge you, at least initially and to some extent, by the brand name they do or don't recognize. After that it's up to your follow-through.

Good luck with it all!

 

[intprovising]

Hey everyone. I just want to thank you all for your wonderful advice.

Today - 10 months after my initial post - I received transfer acceptance to an Ivy League school. I could not be more elated; haven't slept in 36 goddamn hours I'm so happy. I worked hard and it paid off. While I'll keep my expectations grounded (not everyone will be ejaculating the joy for learning), I will make a point to take advantage of all this opportunity has to offer.

Thank you again and I wish you the best in all your endeavors!

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Well, you have to make a decision, and that decision is pretty decisive,

are you in for the knowledge for its own sake,
or are you trying to attain the knowledge to turn it into material possessions?
The choice is yours.

 

[Pyropyro]

Hey everyone. I just want to thank you all for your wonderful advice.

Today - 10 months after my initial post - I received transfer acceptance to an Ivy League school. I could not be more elated; haven't slept in 36 goddamn hours I'm so happy. I worked hard and it paid off. While I'll keep my expectations grounded (not everyone will be ejaculating the joy for learning), I will make a point to take advantage of all this opportunity has to offer.

Thank you again and I wish you the best in all your endeavors!

Congrats dude. Hope you enjoy your time there.

 

[dark+matters]

I am having problems with feeling like the OP too now that it's summer and I have too much free time. I'm reviewing my grades and all the math classes I have left (math being something highly effortful for me) and I am freaking out about my grades- both what they are now and what they will potentially be by the end of my undergrad when I will possibly leap straight into one or another kind of Ph.d. I talked to an adviser about my B in calculus and he said I'd be fine jumping into a Ph.d if I got A's in all my classes from now on. I can't guarantee that! I've gotten B's and D's in acting classes and English classes. Although bad grades in the humanities are generally because the teacher is an idiot, poor grades in math indicate a lack of comprehension of the material, which is what alarms me the most: that I don't get all the the key concepts or can't apply them "out in the wild." That is so painfully uncomfortable, I can't even describe it. I used to not care about grades and just wanted to comprehend the material and apply it to personal projects and work life, but now, I reeeeeally want those grades! I know what I think and I've formed a plan and a philosophy about why I'm doing what I am, but I am scared. Someone needs to hold my hand. My closet INFP and INTJ are both popping out at the same time and harrassing me about making sure my grades stay excellent and that I stay on top of what I need to do to get into a good grad school in the next couple years.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I'm not sure what the total issue is but most people advise to get out of school faster because ultimately he/she will end up having more money. Other than that one could still pursue academic achievements and in most ideal cases it would not affect income or it would perhaps allow opportunity for income increase eventually, one can view it as moving up the ladder.

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

I've gotten B's and D's in acting classes and English classes... I used to not care about grades and just wanted to comprehend the material and apply it to personal projects and work life, but now, I reeeeeally want those grades! ...

Isn’t it ironic that an INTP gets a B or D in an English class, but an INTP is the most concise with language? This should tell you something about grade inflation! Don’t worry!!

What you should really worry about is finding that INTP you are capable of becoming in an academic subject that blows the shit out of all the square pants! Academic politics is totally Machiavellian, so don’t become cannon fodder. Been there, still doing that, it sucks!

 

[Polaris]

Academic politics is totally Machiavellian, so don’t become cannon fodder. Been there, still doing that, it sucks!

Would you mind sharing some of those experiences? What do you do in academia?

 

[Vion]

Academic politics is totally Machiavellian, so don’t become cannon fodder. Been there, still doing that, it sucks!

Lapis Lazuli could you please not share any of those experiences until you have reached a conclusion. That is until you have either solved your problems or identified certain inherent flaws for solving that you think warrants such discussion.

"It is not what you can do for academics, but what academics can do for you."

It is by that logic I think the previous poster is attempting to falsely incriminate your good standing by asserting an undisclosed personal bias. It is called reverse victimization. But also note that no plans have been expressed as to how that information will be used. Simply put they want to make a fool of you. I am not sure how much of this intent is conscious yet.

Would you mind sharing some of those experiences? What do you do in academia?

Why were you speaking out of turn? Do you wish to fornicate? I recognize your username as a reference to the old English homosexual slang Polari.

 

[redbaron]

Pipe down Vion you gimp.

 

[Vion]

Pipe down redbaron you gimp.

I can't quite read what you are saying. Do you wish to speak up? Are you his big brother with a larger post count? Oh what big posturing do you have. If you have come to brutalize me to get your unspoken point across I hope you came armed with something tangible. Please make true to your words and attempt to gimp me if you can do so little pussy cat.

Please make sure your henchmen don't step out of line again. We won't be having this conversation again.

 

[redbaron]

Reported.

My dad is the admin.

 

[Vion]

Reported.

My dad is the admin.

You were adopted.

 

[redbaron]

Spoiler

I can't quite read what you are saying. Do you wish to speak up? Are you his big brother with a larger post count? Oh what big posturing do you have. If you have come to brutalize me to get your unspoken point across I hope you came armed with something tangible. Please make true to your words and attempt to gimp me if you can do so little pussy cat.

Please make sure your henchmen don't step out of line again. We won't be having this conversation again.

Gimpiest post ever.

 

[onesteptwostep]

o_O

I'm sort of wondering too, it'd be nice to hear your story Lazuli.

 

[Vion]

o_O

I'm sort of wondering too, it'd be nice to hear your story Lazuli.

You want a story, to see wonders and amusement do you? That side show attraction with the gimp fetish wasn't amusing enough for you?

Wow this is a tough crowd Lazuli. I suggest you break a leg.. or perhaps a skull or two.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

It is by that logic I think the previous poster is attempting to falsely incriminate your good standing by asserting an undisclosed personal bias. It is called reverse victimization. But also note that no plans have been expressed as to how that information will be used. Simply put they want to make a fool of you. I am not sure how much of this intent is conscious yet.


Why were you speaking out of turn? Do you wish to fornicate? I recognize your username as a reference to the old English homosexual slang Polari.

U dum as a brick yo hair like cowlick

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

I can't quite read what you are saying. Do you wish to speak up? Are you his big brother with a larger post count? Oh what big posturing do you have. If you have come to brutalize me to get your unspoken point across I hope you came armed with something tangible. Please make true to your words and attempt to gimp me if you can do so little pussy cat.

Please make sure your henchmen don't step out of line again. We won't be having this conversation again.

I take it there is a deconstructionist clan here?

 

[onesteptwostep]

You want a story, to see wonders and amusement do you? That side show attraction with the gimp fetish wasn't amusing enough for you?

Wow this is a tough crowd Lazuli. I suggest you break a leg.. or perhaps a skull or two.

Are you proposing that all reveries in wonder are for personal amusement?

So they don't help widen your worldview and see in the perspectives of others? If all the wonders in the world is for one's amusement, then I guess the ones who believe them to be so would very much be selfish or self-absorbed.

Why would I indulge in drama? I have enough of that in my personal life. I don't try and replicate that on the web.

 

[Vion]

I take it there is a deconstructionist clan here?

You want to take the coward's way out and shoot the messenger. You obviously don't need my help so I throw you back to the wolves. Red riding hood has to learn the hard way it seems.

Why would I indulge in drama?

I'm not your keeper, do I look like your daddy?

U dum as a brick yo hair like cowlick

You sure did lick me good with that comment. Moo!

 

[Lapis Lazuli]

You want to take the coward's way out and shoot the messenger. You obviously don't need my help so I throw you back to the wolves. Red riding hood has to learn the hard way it seems.

Slow down Tex, with that shooting! I was asking you about the others, not implying anything about your use of language. I was thinking about thanking you, but had to go to work.

I have been where you seem to be now, and all I can say is it's hard not to become reactionary, but when you do they have you where they want you.