Please help. I'm going mad

[StevenM]

I never have been diagnosed with anything, although I suspect i'm some kind of schizoid. And it scares the living hell out of me.

I'm usually fine, but there is a specific trigger that sets it all into motion. And I have accidentally flipped the switch. It seems to happen everytime I get a broken heart; my mind "splits". Then a reaction takes place, and my perceptions start taking on a very crazy turn. I don't hallucinate, but my thinking starts to rapidly evolve in very different ways.

In a way, it's very similar to "Kes" in Star Trek Voyager, and the manner in which she passes away. Tons of revelations are made, and everything from human nature, to the physics of matter are viewed with crystal clear vision. Then, an impending feeling of "slipping" away from everything, a death of some kind, a transcendence into a more enlightened universe.

I was reading this article: Psychology of So-called 'Schizophrenia' and the topics presented went nuts in my mind. I wanted to find something that "debunked" my feeling, I needed something to ground me back to reality. This article only increased my anxiety, and strengthened my delusion that I might be becoming "enlightened", and experiencing some kind of supernatural universe. Perhaps you guys, with more rational minds, can debunk some of this stuff, or at least help me see it in a more rational way.

I swear, I'm never meant for this love stuff, and from now on, I'm staying out of it.
I need some help grounding back to reality.

 

[Variform]

I can't be asked to read all that and I stopped after the first few paragraphs. I know where this is going.
It is bullshit. I know a man with schizophrenia and he is not in any way enlightened. I mentioned him elsewhere, the brother of my ex girlfriend. He is institutionalized, so if any of the nonsense about transcendence had any meaningful link to his state of mind... All these words they use, like holistic, clarity, untuitive understanding, spirtual etc, all crap.

This man is overweight, has diabetes because of it, eats very badly, eats too much. He lies in bed all day, goes out to the terrace to smoke, picks his nose and eats it in front of everyone. Yells at you when you speak. Doesn't like it when your body moves too much when you sit in a chair in his room. The floor littered with junk. He can't clean his room without help, or himself, if there would not be a list on the door telling him.

He can't stand a visit for more than 15 minutes. Asks you to leave then. The drawings he makes at the facility are of a 4 year old. There is nothing enlightened or intelligent or smart about him. Rather, he tries to manipulate you into buying him stuff because he thinks he is entitled to like a 4 year old would. Cannot ride a bicycle anymore because he just topples over because of the medications or because of his weight or both.

He was being sued for causing an accident breaking the collar bone of a another biker.

Schizophrenia is in no way anything enlightened. It is a severe handicap and severely debilitating. To glorify it or to even suggest somehow these people have something about them that is far ahead of the crows in any way is preposterous, no it is imbecile. No one wants to be like that.

And this man is actually quite well off, because his neighbor in the next room seem worse off. This black dude so medicated can barely lift his feet to walk. He looks like a zombie, sitting on his bed staring into the hallway as I pass his open door. He walks to the living room and back but without reason. He is waiting to die seemingly because he will never get anywhere in life.

The voices they hear are so invasive there is no room for the normal world anymore. They are parked there, fed, their room cleaned and engaged by offering them paper and pencils or work with clay but little comes of it.

It is perhaps the most terrible disease a person can get. I rather jump in front of a speeding freight train than become like so.

So DO never take that piece of shit writing to mean anything worthwhile to you dude. I swear it, there is nothing liberating or enlightening about this disease.

And take it from me, with my StPD, which is bad enough as it fucking is.

 

[Lot]

This kinda stuff happens to me a lot when I smoke pot and/or meditating. Are you perhaps using drugs during these periods of enlightenment. I'm not belittling this. I've decided to believe that my mind is expanding, but I could easily just be a delusional pothead.

Perhaps, instead of thinking you are going crazy, you should just role with it for awhile. Start looking up things of a fringe spiritual nature. If it seems like a crock of shit, then move on. If you are some how accessing a higher conscious state, then you need to learn how to harness it. Don't think you are special, though. Because you aren't. Many people all around the world, have similar things happen to them. Check out the documentary Wake Up.

As far as mental illness. I agree with Variform. My great uncle, has been in group homes his whole life, and currently lives with my grandma. He spends his days doing crossword puzzles, mumbling to himself, watching shows meant for ages 2-4, and more mumbling to himself. But that is partially from the electroshock therapy. The other schizophrenic person I know, can't keep a job, and thinks every Dr he's seen is making him mental. He blames it all on his neighbor blowing crack smoke into his apartment. When he's not on his med, you get randomly strung together stories of government plots to kill Dracula, and whether a man he stabbed on a bridge was bleeding or dropped a ketchup bottle (He's never stabbed anyone).

None of this is important

Spoiler

If anything spiritual is happening to schizophrenics, it's a demonic attack. That being said. Don't trust any entities you meet while traveling higher planes. They all have an agenda.

Spoiler

Please don't label me as a crazy

 

[Base groove]

Can I be realistic for a second without being harsh??

YOU NEED TO BE RELIEVED OF YOUR BURDEN DUDE; YOU ARE TOO YOUNG.

Grandma's gotta go.

 

[StevenM]

This is all excellent input. Hearing the truth when my mind is hijacked is the best therapy. Yesterday, I was able to calm myself down, and return back to baseline. It's a scary thing for me when logic and rationality "turns off", and I'm left scrambling to figure out what is actually truth, and what is delusion.

Thanks for putting that stupid article into perspective. I knew something was faulty about it, but because my brain was making too many connections, it all seemed so true. The article seemed really fitting to what I have experienced before, and what I might experience again.

I haven't used any street drugs since I was younger. Although, when emotions override my brain, especially when falling hard in love, it can feel like I took a hard core psychedelic. Contrary to before, I have tried to stay away from any "enlightened" information, or at least made sure to assimilate it into a realistic perspective.

Can I be realistic for a second without being harsh??

YOU NEED TO BE RELIEVED OF YOUR BURDEN DUDE; YOU ARE TOO YOUNG.

Grandma's gotta go.

You can be as harsh as you want, just as long as you have something informative to input. You are right about grandma, and I've already realized this. Over the last 2 weeks, I've been working out plans to relieve myself from her situation. I've got to face it, not only am I too young, but I also don't have the mental capacity to be a caregiver. It's a steep pit that I've fallen into, and I'm working on getting my way out.

 

[crippli]

This may not be relevant in this case, as "a broken heart" may render the most astute insane. But I'd like to comment on this comment;

It is bullshit. I know a man with schizophrenia and he is not in any way enlightened.

That is one man. Hardly a solid sample to produce an opinion on.

Would a medical professional be able to differentiate a godlike vs a broken mind? I haven't seen evidence that they posses the required skill to make a differentiation. To them, both will produce gibberish. Indeed, our own history tell us that the godlike vs the broken will both be shunned(there and then). I'm not sure why the enlightened should fare better today then they did earlier?

That said. Schizophrenia is supposedly intended to describe the broken mind(disconnected from reality). But I don't doubt that a solid portion of godlike minds(who actually see things with more clarity) also get put in the same box(together with various other shunned individuals).

To tie this up....Broken love...insanity....Does one gain enlightenment(godlike) or fragmentation(broken mind) through this experience? To OP: When the experience has reached a comfortable distance, so your mind is once more clear. Have you now become stronger or weaker?

 

[nanook]

It's not that simple, since most psychiatrists who work in mental institutions are pigheaded atheists, they will diagnose any spiritual experience as psychosis, most likely as schizophrenic psychosis, though borderline or bipolar are popular alternatives. This is called pre-trans fallacy. Regression and Transcendence are confused by the outside observer.

Your mind develops through levels and tends to become unconscious and also ignorantly dismissive of former levels, but when a transcendent and integrative peak is reached, contents of the former levels will become conscious again, only seen from a new integrative perspective and seen side by side with higher levels, but nevertheless experienced as subjectively relevant reality.

When a mind does not reach transcendence, but simply regresses, it will also become conscious of former levels, but interpret them as being in stark contradiction to higher (for instance rational) levels and discard the higher levels in favor of the lower levels or jump back and forth in the preference for one perspective, perceived in contradiction to another.

Now in reality, these two changes of the psyche, regression and transcendence are not as clearly distinct as they are in theory, an individual who is in the process of transcending and integrating is always at risk of partially and temporarily regressing into the contents from former levels. It's usually no problem, but always happens.

But an individual who is in the process of regressing is not necessarily or even likely in the process of transcending and integrating.

This article, which i have not read, but i am familiar with the general ideals of transpersonal psychology and consider them generally valid, might be about the psychology of some people, who happen to be diagnosed as schizophrenic, one might even say who have been misdiagnosed as schizophrenic, but it is not about all people with this diagnosis and it is also about some people who did not receive any diagnosis.

This article may not be integrally informed, it may itself fall for the pre-trans fallacy, but in the opposite direction, considering everything that is regressive as being transcendent. This is version of the fallacy is also very common. Not all "transpersonal psychology" is perfectly integral, even though it usually tries to be. For instance i think that stanislav grof makes some mistakes.

Personally i believe that all spiritual and all psychotic experience is cooked up in the human brain, but that does not imply, that it's a disease, it can as well be a healing crisis or transformation.

You have to separate experience and interpretation of it, i mean theoretically. The Interpretation of experience could be literal minded (a voice is a demon/angel) or integral (the voice is a part of my psyche, it's "my" psyche and yet it's not literally mine, because it's the brain's and nothing in the brain has the power to literally own the brain), depending on the Interpretative skills of the Individual.

But poor (literal minded) interpretation is what marks regressive psychosis and yet it, the poor interpretational skill, can not be said to constitute much of a psychosis or disease, because it's just a regular individual, who happens to be challenged with a new situation.

If you were to take any mentally healthy person from the street and gave them a lucid dream right there on the spot, many of them would interpret the vision through a literal mind. Even if one has developed interpretative skills, it takes some time and practice to apply them thoroughly to new psychic content.

The disease is not the interpretation, it's the challenge of having to interpret a whole bunch of extraordinary psychic content, the confrontation with contents from former levels or from the unconscious mind. It's often simply an organic problem and diet can sometimes make all the difference. Before anyone tries psychopharmaka and if the psychosis is not too acute, he should try a grain free whole food plant based diet, preferably fruit based, being very careful with odd medicinal plants like peppers, onion, garlic. And test for allergies.

If you want to help with learning how to interpret psychic experience from an integral perspective, you might find it helpful, to look at how other people, who have this capacity, are doing it. I think that Ken Wilber's model of reality is a good framework to maintain worldly sanity in the middle of a subjective challenge. Having this framework will allow you to detect which people's interpretation of psychic contents are integrative and which are regressively projecting. It think that the lifestyle of someone like Ken Wilber could be considered proof, that he will not teach you a psychotic perspective. He is highly functional, socially and financially, despite being an introvert.

But i also understand if you want to stay away from all novel and difficult ideas, it might be the right thing to do, just be present with physical sensations, eat right, enjoy your self, take time out.

You should certainly stay away from New Age crap, the whole scene of people who are into channeling and stuff like that. They just invent a thousand ways of justifying projections.

 

[StevenM]

To OP: When the experience has reached a comfortable distance, so your mind is once more clear. Have you now become stronger or weaker?

That's a hard question to answer. I see what you might be getting at; did it help me, or did it the experience hinder? Was it regressive, or something transcendental?

The experience is something like no other, and I seem to be disclosed to a lot of deep information about myself and other people. It's frighteningly beautiful, eerily miraculous. Yet, too much of it comes flowing in, too fast. And then I panic that I'll never see life the same way again. I'll never have that familiarity of routine, and I'll lose control.

So to come back again, I remind myself, that it's something in my brain. Dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and who knows what else, could all be going a little out of whack, and it's distorting my perceptions. And of course, adrenalin and cortisol kick in because I start panicking. I'm getting experienced at controlling panic.

Talking, and being open to people who are down to earth and rational really helps bring me back. A good night's sleep did wonders, and I am now back to normal again, like I used to be.

 

[crippli]

I see what you might be getting at; did it help me, or did it the experience hinder? Was it regressive, or something transcendental?

Excactly. That was what I had in mind. What I presume are the aspects that make an experience worthwhile, or one not to be repeated.

The experience is something like no other, and I seem to be disclosed to a lot of deep information about myself and other people. It's frighteningly beautiful, eerily miraculous. Yet, too much of it comes flowing in, too fast. And then I panic that I'll never see life the same way again. I'll never have that familiarity of routine, and I'll lose control.

So to come back again, I remind myself, that it's something in my brain. Dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and who knows what else, could all be going a little out of whack, and it's distorting my perceptions. And of course, adrenalin and cortisol kick in because I start panicking. I'm getting experienced at controlling panic.

Talking, and being open to people who are down to earth and rational really helps bring me back. A good night's sleep did wonders, and I am now back to normal again, like I used to be.

Good. I'm glad the worst is over. Be aware of after shakes though. These toxins, even if produced internally(but triggered externally), have brought down entire empires.

Interestingly, the article mentions that Bleuler who came up with the SZ label, originally meant it as "broken heart". As translates to lovesick in my vocabulary. Not broken mind as I have been thinking. It also mentions that Bleuler was the teacher of Carl Jung. As I also found interesting. I'll read the rest of the article later.

 

[StevenM]

I think I have a more a realistic perspective than last night, and decided to reread the whole article again. I found it all very interesting. This part stuck out at me for some reason:

Spoiler

If in highly sensitive individuals the process of spiritual emergence is blocked, they might be warned that their growth is in grave danger and that they urgently need to make adjustments essential for effective adaptation. The result is a crisis involving powerful spontaneous psychic overload derived from the chaotic and uncontrollable surfacing of subconsious material to the conscious level of awareness. The result is intense psychological and spiritual growth of uncontrolled spiritual emergence. The transformation process of spiritual emergence can be so dramatic as to reach a point of crisis or emergency and is variously known as transpersonal experience,transpersonal crisis, transformational crisis, psycho-spiritual transformation, psycho-spiritual crisis, spiritual journey, hero's journey, dark night of the soul, spiritual opening, psychic opening, psychic awakening, spiritual awakening, enlightenment, kundalini awakening, kundalini process, kundalini crisis, shamanic initiation, shamanic crisis, psychotic visionary episode, ego death, ego loss, alchemical process,positive disintegration, post traumatic stress disorder with psychotic features,night sea journey, psychosis, shamanism,mysticism, gnosis, inner apocalypse, or ‘spiritual emergency’ - a term coined by psychiatrist Dr. Stanislav Grof, founder and president of the International Transpersonal Association..

Actually, the whole article caught my attention.

Not sure why, but this time the article calms me down. Yes, perhaps this situation is different than schizophrenics, or maybe not. Maybe it is a natural process, and maybe it will help me. Even though it's very intense, and frightening, it's not something I should overly panic with. I just wish it would slow the hell down, and give me a chance to digest what is coming at me.

Or, still I'm open to the idea that it may be a mental illness, that should be kept in check. Or maybe a bit of both.

 

[nanook]

the SPEED of undivided consciousness. nobody can tell you, if your own neurology is ready to handle it. but generally speaking, it's a feature of evolution, not a bug.

https://soundcloud.com/melissa-la-flamme/hey-code-breaker

 

[StevenM]

the SPEED of undivided consciousness. nobody can tell you, if your own neurology is ready to handle it. but generally speaking, it's a feature of evolution, not a bug.

You are very insightful.

In regards to the words of the woman in the link you sent me, I can only take her message poetically, and metaphorically. It seems a little bit skewed with spiritualism, and I end up initially taking what she says with criticism.

I somewhat lean towards analyzing this "spiritual awakening" from a psychological point of view. I would like evidence and facts, before I throw myself into an unknown delusion.

I like the idea that, perhaps, hindered and suppressed development in a person's growing process contributes to these wild 'trips', as a means to help grow into maturity. Or, it's a sign of going bat-shit crazy :P

 

[Variform]

This may not be relevant in this case, as "a broken heart" may render the most astute insane. But I'd like to comment on this comment;


That is one man. Hardly a solid sample to produce an opinion on.

That is true. But he lives in one room in a big building on the terrain of the Mental Health Organization of my country, which is one of several such buildings, all with their own name, they have two floors and house probably about 15 souls. Walking around there you will see people mumbling to themselves, staring in the distance, talking to you about nonsensical stuff.

I also mentioned my own StPD. When I examine my own mind, my own perceptions of reality I sometimes conclude I am pretty fucking insane, lol.

If I am what I am, then I can extrapolate, because he is on the same spectrum.

Would a medical professional be able to differentiate a godlike vs a broken mind? I haven't seen evidence that they posses the required skill to make a differentiation. To them, both will produce gibberish. Indeed, our own history tell us that the godlike vs the broken will both be shunned(there and then). I'm not sure why the enlightened should fare better today then they did earlier?

I think we can just accept the norms used by the DSM. For allw e know about the human psyche, we have to use some standard. I think I am capable of distinguishing between schizophrenic insanity and guru-like wisdom.

That said. Schizophrenia is supposedly intended to describe the broken mind(disconnected from reality). But I don't doubt that a solid portion of godlike minds(who actually see things with more clarity) also get put in the same box(together with various other shunned individuals).

I don't think enlightened people see things more clear. They have come to an understanding. It feels the same as any mundane thought, like, 'I really wanna scratch my ass but someone is looking'.

To tie this up....Broken love...insanity....Does one gain enlightenment(godlike) or fragmentation(broken mind) through this experience?

I think both. I think they go hand in hand. But I do think there can be a stage after it. It is difficult.

On one hand it is a continual progression into understanding, on the other hand it must necessarily come with insanity, because you need to break away from deeply rooted indoctrinations, axioms and paradigms. And that is what insanity is, to cut the values and norms and go beyond them.

The man who calls himself enlightened and has clarity falls into a trap. (Stages, continuing progression.)Yet, the man who says the confusion of the clarity and the insanity experienced dually is also trapped. The stone Buddha. Look it up.

 

[Variform]

I like the idea that, perhaps, hindered and suppressed development in a person's growing process contributes to these wild 'trips', as a means to help grow into maturity. Or, it's a sign of going bat-shit crazy :P

There is no choice to make here but one: how do you want to look at it?

I have StPD. I know the way my mind works differs from most people. Yet, I believe, sometimes I have a good point to make. In other times, I am just like anybody else. A moron. And egotistical. And so on.

So I know my thought process are different. Summarizing, why not use that weird word 'crazy'. But does that automatically mean I cannot reason? No. Can I use logic? Yes. Can I feel like other people? Yes.

It is not necessarily a choice between mental illness and sanity/spiritual growth. Everything is a matter of perspective and personally, I find peace in the idea that things can be 'both...and' rather than 'either...or'.

Now if these bouts get into the habit of isolating you socially, problems at work, in relationships, the works, well, then you need some assistance. Going to a shrink doesn't mean he can't guide your spiritual growth, because he would dislike such notions. You may go to a spiritual healer of some sort or another, that doesn't mean you are going off the deep end.

You should be skeptical about yourself. Never belief in anything you think. Leave it in the middle. Crazy, insane, spiritual, enlightenment, just words. The real question is, do you want to be dual or whole? That is tricky. On what side of being whole will you want to fall? A diagnosis? Or a white robe and lotus meditation? There is no choice, only the flow of your being through time.

And eat cake. Cake is yummy.

 

[Kuu]

Metanoia (from the Greek μετάνοια metanoia, "changing one's mind") in the psychological theory of Carl Jung denotes a process of reforming the psyche as a form of self healing, a proposed explanation for the phenomenon of psychotic breakdown. Here, metanoia is viewed as a potentially productive process, and therefore patients' psychotic episodes are not necessarily always to be thwarted.

In Carl Jung's psychology, metanoia indicates a spontaneous attempt of the psyche to heal itself of unbearable conflict by melting down and then being reborn in a more adaptive form. Jung believed that psychotic episodes in particular could be understood as existential crises which were sometimes attempts at self-reparation. Jung's concept of metanoia influenced R. D. Laing and the therapeutic community movement which aimed, ideally, to support people whilst they broke down and went through spontaneous healing, rather than thwarting such efforts at self-repair by strengthening their existing character defences and thereby maintaining the underlying conflict.

Etymology
The term derives from the Ancient Greek words μετά (metá) (meaning "beyond" or "after") and νόος (noeō) (meaning "perception" or "understanding" or "mind"), and takes on different meanings in different contexts.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Geez Variform get real, schizophrenia is an incredibly broad and ill defined diagnosis.

 

[Variform]

I get a little tired of people making comments like that. It is psychiatry. Which is psychology. Which is dealing with the human psyche. Which is not quantifiable. Which makes any dx not edged in stone.

But to simply state just about any diagnosis it is badly defined is nonsense. A psychiatrist knows very well when someone is schizophrenic. Please Mr. Cola. Do not use your own inexperience as a measure of All Things.

Every time its the same anti-psychiatric knee jerk. 'They don't know everything.' 'It is not well defined'. That is nonsense. Few psychiatric conditions are so well defined as SZ.

 

[Base groove]

Every time its the same anti-psychiatric knee jerk. 'They don't know everything.' 'It is not well defined'. That is nonsense. Few psychiatric conditions are so well defined as SZ.

What if... that is the real nonsense?

I would say few psychiatric conditions are so ill defined as SZ.

It's one of those: "you know it when you see it" deals. The symptomology is like a martini of a half-dozen other disorders that get packed into one stiff drink.

 

[StevenM]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I see what veriform is getting at. I'm guessing he dislikes the idea that the symptoms of schizophrenia (hallucinations, delusions, etc) as just a natural healthy process of brain. It's hard to say if the article is implying that.

However, schizophrenia is not so well defined. And the psychiatrists here are very cautious to make any diagnosis, and some don't make any diagnosis at all because of it. They prefer to treat symptoms if needed, and monitor, make adjustments to peak the quality of life.

My psychiatrist has stated exactly what base groove has said. The symptoms often are seen co-morbid with other defined illnesses, such as Bipolar, PTSD, social anxiety, and the cause of the symptoms varies.

 

[Variform]

What if... that is the real nonsense?

I would say few psychiatric conditions are so ill defined as SZ.

It's one of those: "you know it when you see it" deals. The symptomology is like a martini of a half-dozen other disorders that get packed into one stiff drink.

Well, all I can say I have a related illness. I studied SZ, but what is studied. I looked at the DSM and ICD. I browsed my countries' foundation for schizophrenia. I contacted them once, because they do not have much info on StPD. It is like my disorder, though often associated with relatives of those with SZ, is even there overlooked.

Most any shrink can diagnose it because it is a pretty well known disease. It might not be after seeing someone once. But once pubers get their first psychosis, it will be clear relatively quick.

There is a persistent idea in people that psychiatrists are dumb fuckers who can't find their own ass with Jung pointing them to it. Ridiculous. People think nebulous and therefore think someone else doesn't know jack shit.

I think SZ is not all that hard to diagnose and that the symptoms are pretty clear.

So what you say is absolutely wrong! In another tab in my browser I have the website of Anoiksis and the list of symptoms and their description is precise.

Also, I read a book once by a schizophrenic. He detailed precisely his through processes. In this case he heard voices that told him only to eat fruit. Out of that would come some form of enlightenment iirc. Of course his body collapsed after a while. But all he ate was oranges I think. It all made perfect sense to him. It was in inside look on what a psychosis is like, want delusions and hallucinations are like.

I know one guy who has it. Really, it is not all that hard. And the only reason a shrink is reluctant to give the dx is because it is such a grand label. To me that is like not calling someone in a wheelchair that can't use their legs paralyzed. It is ignoring the elephant in the room.

It is a similar stupidity thatw e saw back in the 50. 60 and even 70's and 80's, when doctors would hold back to tell a patient what exactly what was wrong, what they found as if the patient has no right to know or is supposed not to be smart enough or should not even interfere or state an opinion on treatment. Because the doctors would know best. We moved on from that and now doctors will state everything.

If a shrink won't dx someone because they also see other possible diagnoses, they should stick to SZ, because that is the most debilitating issue. If the guy I know would also have borderline, that is the least of his issues.

 

[crippli]

That is true. But he lives in one room in a big building on the terrain of the Mental Health Organization of my country, which is one of several such buildings, all with their own name, they have two floors and house probably about 15 souls. Walking around there you will see people mumbling to themselves, staring in the distance, talking to you about nonsensical stuff.

Medication and social hierarcy are also factors that must be accounted for when evaluating a person in a place like that. I presume I would have been staring in the distance and mumbling myself if a resident.

I think we can just accept the norms used by the DSM. For allw e know about the human psyche, we have to use some standard. I think I am capable of distinguishing between schizophrenic insanity and guru-like wisdom.

Would you? if the gure-like wisdom came off as incoherent babbling?

I don't think enlightened people see things more clear. They have come to an understanding. It feels the same as any mundane thought, like, 'I really wanna scratch my ass but someone is looking'.

Agreed, to the enlightened. But to those who are not, what does enlightened speech feel like?

I think both. I think they go hand in hand. But I do think there can be a stage after it. It is difficult.

On one hand it is a continual progression into understanding, on the other hand it must necessarily come with insanity, because you need to break away from deeply rooted indoctrinations, axioms and paradigms. And that is what insanity is, to cut the values and norms and go beyond them.

The man who calls himself enlightened and has clarity falls into a trap. (Stages, continuing progression.)Yet, the man who says the confusion of the clarity and the insanity experienced dually is also trapped. The stone Buddha. Look it up.

It sounds as you think insanity is a conscious choice now? That I would ascribe more to the 'enlightened insane'. For those who it is not, medication, institutionalization, psychiatry, support groups are needed. To rid the body of the unwanted presence(psychoses).

The stone Buddha? Buddhism?

 

[StevenM]

I think these spiritual things are just a product of too much dopamine activity (among other things). Whatever happens in the brain that makes us think and figure stuff out, and come up with revelations about stuff starts happening in overdrive. And the quote in the above post says that all these revelations and thinking can become a trap. Mostly, it leads to making faulty connections in logic, and hallucination.

I'm practicing meditation to clear the mind, and to train the brain to slow down and be silent. It does feel a lot better to just say "enough" to the thoughts, and focus on being in the present moment.

 

[crippli]

When lovesick you have lost someone you valued. That is what creates the feeling(psychoses). Like mentioned. A combination of drugs is in play. To me the cure is to ask myself honostly why I valued that person in the first place. When the feeling of loss is no longer there, one is healed. The whole lovesick thing is mostly obsessivness and narchism...

 

[StevenM]

The whole lovesick thing is mostly obsessivness and narchism...

Yes indeed, the whole thing has a fair bit of idealism in play. I've heard a philosophy that no man is happy without a delusion of some kind.

To me the cure is to ask myself honostly why I valued that person in the first place. When the feeling of loss is no longer there, one is healed.

I've critiqued the entire situation, and came up with solid beneficial beliefs based logically on what is the truth. Consciously, I'm over it, and I'm all set to move on. I'm just waiting for the subliminal mind to follow suit. It just takes time.

 

[Variform]

When lovesick you have lost someone you valued. That is what creates the feeling(psychoses). Like mentioned. A combination of drugs is in play. To me the cure is to ask myself honostly why I valued that person in the first place. When the feeling of loss is no longer there, one is healed. The whole lovesick thing is mostly obsessivness and narchism...

So why do we cling to these emotions so much then?

 

[crippli]

So why do we cling to these emotions so much then?

Because it is in our makeup to seek company, and there are consequences when there is a loss. If there wasn't we wouldn't bother making children. Mind you, these functions are programmed towards flocks in humans. Not really a two people set up. That is something we ourself have invented in more resent times. But it is close enough to a flock, especially with x number of children, that it will set up the drug production in case of a loss. You can view it as punishment if you like. Without this system, we wouldn't be making children, and the human race would die out. It's the same for every other species. This drug setup is generally strong enough to override any thinking or other ideas a creature may have, regardless of species.

The industrialized society have made us, at least in the moment with less bondage by nature. And more in control ourself. Meaning we can afford to follow more our own ideas, and less the needs of nature(+++biomass production). Lately however, the two person set up have become more complicated. The needs are less there. IMO people are slowly migrating towards flock relationships.

So to not cling to these emotions? It's like the basis of our existence, what makes us do what we do.

Yes indeed, the whole thing has a fair bit of idealism in play. I've heard a philosophy that no man is happy without a delusion of some kind.

Nice. I suspect this is true. And the delusions are there to enable one to do things...

 

[StevenM]

So why do we cling to these emotions so much then?

When in the company of specific people, and, when kissed, cuddled, and fondled, a reaction takes place within our bodies. Most importantly, the frontal cortex, which mainly controls critical analysis, gets dampened and turned down. Also, a host of other things end up happening, like an increase in the bonding hormone, oxytocin. Evolution has made us this way, so that it makes two people "stay" together to properly nurture a child.

So rub us the right way, and we get programmed to get obsessive towards each other. And everything should be all right, but, most of the time, one of the two people did not properly "connect"; the chemistry just wasn't there for them. And this is a normal event as well. You could increase your odds, by getting experienced with how to turn people "on". Just don't take anything personal, everyone is different.

When things don't turn out, the person who got the "love buzz", then has to suffer the devastation of getting their brain back to homeostasis. It should, naturally, for most people return back to normal. But you need to develop a strong sense of security for yourself. Some self-confidence, and some knowledge of what's going on should be good to get you through. Try getting that critical analysis back going again.

I've read an interesting article, where it is believed that the way we fall in love is very strongly connected to how we were nurtured as a child.

-Children with a strong sense of security from their parents, grew up to love in the best, secure ways.

-Children who didn't get much bonding with parents, and learned to give themselves security, grow up without any need for love, and they spend most of their life with casual hookups.

-Children with anxious, unpredictable and inconsistent love from their parents, fall in love very anxiously and obsessive, and insecure.

Just some food for thought.

 

[StevenM]

Also, to note, that when withdrawn from such a person you are connected to, serotonin starts dropping, and dopamine becomes very active. If you have a basic idea what these neurotransmitters do in the brain, then the symptoms of "missing" someone, mood swings, not being able to eat or sleep, and obsessively thinking about a person, becomes understandable. Especially in those who are anxious lovers.

 

[Variform]

@crippli

I am not sure if you can take 'flock' behavior down to a single pair. It is an itneresting idea but I am not sure about it. Certainly not punishment. Never heard of that in nature. It is promotion or reward, but nature doesn't seem to effectively punish.

@Tmills

Your view sounds more realistic. I have a few questions because I am much in love atm and obsessively.

Can these chemical reactions take place without them being present? Where is the obsession, the chemicals or the desire?
What comes first?

Can oxytocin be produced without the person present?

Maybe you read some recent posts by me. My father was a non-present quiet man, not an alpha, my mother was the alpha who spike bad about father yet lift hewrself up to be a heroin or a victim in her stories.

I would be the anxious type?

 

[Grayman]

I have tested Schizoid a couple times on online tests but I have never gotten a professional examination. I may do it out of curiousity.

Why let this bother you? No one is sane. Our world is shaped in many ways by our beliefs and perceptions. Our emotions are product of them. Regardless of what really is happening your emotions are a result of we believe is happening.

If you believe you are the only one in the world going insane you will feel confused, alone, and depressed. Your emotions may not be strong and you can choose them but if your belief in this becomes too strong you may lose yourself just from the idea of it.

If your are really worried go get the opinion of a professional. The reality is that it does not matter how you think or feel functionally. What matters is that it works for you. What matters is that you are able to function in the real world and to the degree you are satisfied with. You just have to be honest about it.

 

[StevenM]

@crippli

I am not sure if you can take 'flock' behavior down to a single pair. It is an itneresting idea but I am not sure about it. Certainly not punishment. Never heard of that in nature. It is promotion or reward, but nature doesn't seem to effectively punish.

@Tmills

Your view sounds more realistic. I have a few questions because I am much in love atm and obsessively.

Can these chemical reactions take place without them being present? Where is the obsession, the chemicals or the desire?
What comes first?

Can oxytocin be produced without the person present?

Maybe you read some recent posts by me. My father was a non-present quiet man, not an alpha, my mother was the alpha who spike bad about father yet lift hewrself up to be a heroin or a victim in her stories.

I would be the anxious type?

Sounds like you are an anxious type. No problem, same with me, not all is broken.

With your obsession, you really have to get right to the root of reality. You might have to really realize and come to terms with the truth that you find unacceptable. I'm guessing this person does not share the same feelings for you. And if this is the case, you have to realize that this person doesn't share them at all. This is going to sting you, and I hope you don't take it personal. It really isn't about who you are, it's just that there's no connection for her, the chemistry isn't there.

Really, I'm ignorant of what's really going on between you two. I'm just making assumptions. Have you asked her for her feelings?

It is torture to make yourself zig zag back and forth through emotions. There is a clear answer as to what is going on between you two, and you need to get it. Then you need to stick to it. If there's nothing there, you need to really accept that. It hurts like a motherfuck, but you need to feel it. If you need to cry, do so. It hurts, and it's confusing, but you have to come to terms of what it is. Then, in time, move on.

 

[Grayman]

I just had a thought about belief.

I thought about a how a Christain feels the Holy Spirit move through them the moment they believe. The belief enables their emotions to take hold and then they feel their emotions reinforcing their belief that the Holy Spirit is working in them. This again reinforces their emotions which then reinforces their belief. It is a feedback effect.

Is that insanity? Is is possible to lead yourself into insanity by believing you are insane? Do the emotions of confusion, depression and overwhelmning chaos refinforce the idea that you are insane when the idea itself was what created the emotions in the first place?

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ Well, I'd suggest a lot of our mental/emotional condition is based on our perception of it. It's not "magic" per se, but basically our attitude and assessment of our own feelings and thoughts can become self-fulfilling prophecy.

(For example, if you believe yourself powerless, you will read events as yet more confirmation of how powerless you are and you will also respond in ways that represent your lack of perceived power.)

 

[nanook]

It's somewhat possible and typical for us schizoids, as we try to avoid just the kind of experience that could ground us again, so a lot of speculative confusion can accumulate. It'd call it dreaming, in the spiritual sense of the word. Delusion, in the buddhist sense. I reject the western duality of sanity and insanity. Too idealist. We are deluded as a race. Anyhow, there are also individual limits to how far you can take the delusion, because you have wisdom, which is immunity to some delusion.

 

[Variform]

I don't choose my emotions. To think like you do Grayman may be quite INTP.

I can't turn my emotions of. You suggest control where there is none, at least not in me. And even those who would claim they can repress them, do so at their own peril. Repression doesn't annihilate them.

We cannot be in complete control over emotions because that would mean you have compete control over your brain chemistry. And emotions are very much a matter of brain chemistry. Maybe, just maybe when you are some guru...but no guru would propose to turn off emotions. It is not healthy.

I would like control over them. But right now they rule me. I love and love passionately and I cannot turn it off. I don't want to turn it off. It is all I have.

People always seem to suggest control. Maybe in modern day society we are all control freaks, because we can exact it over so much. Our cars do what we want, and this is interesting if you consider it; that we live in a world of switches. We can switch on light, our cars, a device like an e-reader. We can choose what to buy in stores or online, we can turn off the pc.

Maybe that is the reason people think they can switch off their emotions, for have we not been taught from birth, by being given toys that have switches, that we can exact control over our environment? And when we grew up we learned to turn lights on and off, or mom's kitchen appliances. Our industrial processes work the same way, in fact, most of our civilization is based on on-off switches.

We therefore robotize ourselves when it comes to those things we have no control over. There are people here that willingly work to repress emotions because they cannot handle them. There is something deeply wrong there.

There is nothing I want more in life than true love, which is all feelings and emotions. You can take my INTP mind and all that it is excellent with, what INTP's are know for and give me true love and I will gladly make the change.

Control over emotions seems to me a paradox. Emotions are that what destroys or negates control.

So to suggest we can somehow control them seems weird. Because control is also a form of conquering them. That means to willfully seek them out and suppress them, enslave them, make them no longer free to be what they are to be. What self loathing is this?

 

[Grayman]

@Variform

Emotions create the chemical reaction in response or exist as the chemical reaction but what is the source?

The brain is the source. How you see the world and choose to believe what you do is the driving force of your emotions. The illusion around you is what drives your emotions. If you control the illusion you control the emotions.

It is not fully a matter of believing you can change emotions but that is a part of being able to. Do you 'want' to give up on the idea of that special/ideal girl? What is more valuable than holding onto that idea?


EDIT:
I don’t just suppress emotions. I do at first but then I find the root and pull out the weed. I can also bring out emotions by focusing on the world around me and what it is I want to see.

Anyways I am not certain they are meaning the same control that I am. I am aware of supressing them but that is usually only necessary in certain situations and as a temporary delay before I can shift my perceptions.

 

[Grayman]

Control over emotions seems to me a paradox. Emotions are that what destroys or negates control.

The have the end control but they don't get to choose the input. You cannot control them directly. You can choose what they see in the world and they will react accordingly. What we see is not reality anyways. We might as well shift our perspective to something that is more functional.

So to suggest we can somehow control them seems weird. Because control is also a form of conquering them. That means to willfully seek them out and suppress them, enslave them, make them no longer free to be what they are to be. What self loathing is this?

LOL

Distrust of my emotions to do what is right and a life of people who have proven that emotions are not to be trusted. I don't see my emotions as a part of me(conciousness) but as a tool just like thought. Why would I let the tool control my conciousness?

 

[Variform]

@Variform

Emotions create the chemical reaction in response or exist as the chemical reaction but what is the source?

The brain is the source. How you see the world and choose to believe what you do is the driving force of your emotions. The illusion around you is what drives your emotions. If you control the illusion you control the emotions.

The brain is a source that can be affected by our will. That is what depression does. A negative outlook has been scientifically proven to result in different brain chemistry, that is, serotonin levels drop. Likewise, thinking positively creates more serotonin. People get antidepressants because it is hard, in a situation of lowered serotonin, to catch onto will to affect the brain and turn the cycle around. It is an intervention, a medicinal increase of serotonin so that there is created room for someone to apply his will to change their view to a more positive perspective. And then the cycle gets going to create more serotonin.

This 'illusion' is reality. The reality we see on a day to day basis. There is no denying that it impacts us. But it is like those mathematical rules, where minus times positive equals minus. Or plus times minus equals plus.

So, to accept reality as an illusion is an illusion itself. But the second one is positive in its workings, to empower you.

It is not fully a matter of believing you can change emotions but that is a part of being able to. Do you 'want' to give up on the idea of that special/ideal girl? What is more valuable than holding onto that idea?

Nothing.

EDIT:
I don’t just suppress emotions. I do at first but then I find the root and pull out the weed. I can also bring out emotions by focusing on the world around me and what it is I want to see.

I don't understand that. Weeding is suppression. Right? You experience them, allow them just to lock missiles.

So what do you focus on in the world around you? I don''t undersatan d the mechanics.

Ha, what a nice error. I'll leave it.

Anyways I am not certain they are meaning the same control that I am. I am aware of supressing them but that is usually only necessary in certain situations and as a temporary delay before I can shift my perceptions.

I think I get that. But why.

 

[StevenM]

Situation or event ->Gets processed through our beliefs and core assumptions -> Cues emotions

Thus, if you were to change your beliefs and assumptions of a situation or event, you may have control over emotions. It can be a lengthy process, especially if the belief is deeply engrained.
You can try using NLP techniques to bypass the critical factor, and let it seep into your subconscious. You can also live and learn, and gather information objectively.

Just as an example, a person may have a deep belief that they are ugly/unworthy. Using self-talk and affirmation regularly, they may hardly notice how many times during their routine thinking they are telling themselves they are ugly. A look in the mirror, and an instant "ugly" thought. Going out in public, and they may subtly perceive disgusted faces. For some reason, this causes feelings of shame, sadness, fear, and loneliness.

So the first step would be to first identify what the person is telling himself, and defining his beliefs. Then working out a more realistic view and outlook of that irrational belief. (Hence, killing the weed). One example would be "Person X found me attractive, and Person Y found me attractive, so I might be more attractive than I thought." Then using the counter-statement everytime the person encountered a situation which brings up the belief. Takes work and practice, but soon, the person may have engrained a new belief that isn't so self-defeating.

And that's how you can change your emotions.

 

[Grayman]

@Veriform

Tmills did a good job of explaining it.

It is basically not allowing yourself to come to a conclusion too soon in a situation so that your emotions don't jump in and mislead you. Using reason to asses the situation you can determine any number of conclusions.

 

[Variform]

My psychologist said I wasn't that bad looking and seemed to imply I was marketable for some women. Even as a kid I felt not up to par. I wanted to look more like my brother, who looked like my mother, whereas my head was more akin to my father.

My father would not speak out in favor of me but my mother could not give me assurance I wasn't that bad. No one could ever tell me anything that I would accept.

Something inside me resists all reassurances and maybe it is because I distrust others and their opinion and maybe I think they are just saying these things to make me feel better, while in fact they know I am right.

So I don't know if I believe my therapist. Actually, one therapist said I had a 'great head'. And I found that insulting.

The cold hard fact is that no woman ever got hot for me, hot enough to approach me. This suggests I am right, every day of my life I remain unnoticed or not approached confirms I am right. It is a fact this has not happened.

So what would NLP do except install an obvious lie. Some people here have stated they can flirt with girls, one said he was so good looking that it annoyed him that he got this attention on him all the time. If that is an extreme one end, I must be at the other end.

Maybe I am not prone to fooling myself and believing shallow therapeutic lies about my looks. Is my therapist trying to fool me into thinking I am not all that bad, giving me a sort of confidence that is based on a lie? Maybe I am too attracted to truth and it is hurting my ability to self-deceive.

So what reason would I have to follow that allows me to 'believe' I am e.g. at least average looking? And how does that reasoning need to overcome the more truthful, factual perspective? I cannot lie to myself, fool myself into thinking I am reasonably okay looking when no girl or woman ever flirted with me, looked at me in some obvious way?

So 'what' am I telling myself that is negative? How is it more 'realistic' to have ideas about how I look that were never affirmed in any way by another?

My ex said she liked my looks. but I don't trust her. I think she more or less lied. I think she took my looks as they were, as a handicap you accept because the rest is worth it. She never gave me the feeling I was hot. But she was sexually disturbed.

So where are my 'person X and Y'? My therapists? I am thinking that they have my self-image at heart, not the truth. They want to get me to believe that I am at least okay-ish so that I would present myself with more confidence and in doing so, attract a woman to me. And that would be 'goal reached'. No matter exactly how good or not good I look.

I remember there once was this website called 'Hot or not'. I know I am not hot. If I was, even reasonably or average, some girl or woman, that isn't shy, would have approached me, winked at me, smiled or flirted or made herself known in any sort of way.

And I can't believe that that is because I was in the presence of my girlfriend or because it was in an inappropriate situation to do so. Women had ample chances to do this yet they don't.

I conclude, I must be ugly. Or very much below average or not appreciable by some standard.

So, my core assumptions must be right. What do you tell someone who is really ugly?

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

What do you tell someone who is really ugly?

it is unfortunate that we live in a society preoccupied with physical appearance but this is not true for everyone. some people, myself included, are primarily attracted by another's mind. the concept of being attracted to someone on the basis of their appearance is quite alien and if it is the sole attracting factor quite disturbing.

imagine if you were suddenly the hottest guy around and women were falling over themselves to ask you out despite knowing nothing else about you? would that make you feel good about yourself? whenever this happened to me i felt devalued as a person - reduced to nothing more than an object to gawk at. complexity, individuality, character - everything i consider of value: irrelevant.

i think that was one of the points the poster in the other thread you mentioned was making. how good looking we are is incidental to what sort of person we are and if someone is interested in you just because they like the way you look it is clear where their priorities lie - just the same as if they wanted to date you with no other knowledge apart from the fact that you were wealthy.

so you are ugly. perhaps it will be more difficult for you pick up what society considers hot women for casual sex, but is that what you want? my impression from your posts elsewhere is that you seek a more meaningful connection than that - a connection of minds to which beauty is inconsequential.

 

[StevenM]

People are neither beautiful or ugly. But if you find some who likes who you are, they will find you attractive. And people who don't like who you are will find you ugly.

Brings to mind the people who are "freaks" in a freak show. Get to know some of them well, and attain an appreciation for their art, your perception can change, and you can find the beauty in them.

However, there are studies that the first gut instinct of a person can partly be made by how symmetrical their face is, plus tone of body etc. How confident they appear plays another factor is sizing someone up for the first time.

 

[Grayman]

My psychologist said I wasn't that bad looking and seemed to imply I was marketable for some women. Even as a kid I felt not up to par. I wanted to look more like my brother, who looked like my mother, whereas my head was more akin to my father.

My father would not speak out in favor of me but my mother could not give me assurance I wasn't that bad. No one could ever tell me anything that I would accept.

Something inside me resists all reassurances and maybe it is because I distrust others and their opinion and maybe I think they are just saying these things to make me feel better, while in fact they know I am right.

So I don't know if I believe my therapist. Actually, one therapist said I had a 'great head'. And I found that insulting.

First, you cannot be ugly or not ugly. Where does one draw the line? Who gets to decide?
Second, woman all find different things attractive.
My wife likes hair on the chest and some woman don't. My wife hates when I have my head shaved bald but some woman really love it.

There are many women out there all seeing beauty in different ways. The only realistic realization is to accept that some woman who says you are attractive and even dates you likely thinks you're attractive. The only unrealistic thing is to believe everyone is lying to you all the time. Have more faith in man.

 

[Variform]

imagine if you were suddenly the hottest guy around and women were falling over themselves to ask you out despite knowing nothing else about you? would that make you feel good about yourself? whenever this happened to me i felt devalued as a person - reduced to nothing more than an object to gawk at. complexity, individuality, character - everything i consider of value: irrelevant.

I'll take that any day! Can I sign up?! Because, you see, when you are attractive or appealing to the greater denominator you get in contact with women. And then you can find the one you like. And have a try. And it works or it won't, but you had your chance.

I never get a chance. Is anybody selling fine shotguns? I wanna take a drive.



But seriously, it is the ancient and eternal case of 'if you didn't experience it, you don't truly understand what its like'.

Fact is, we aren't telepathic beings. You go live in the head of an 'ugly' guy for a week and see the difference. Luxury problems. I would murder, maim and kill 50% of the world population just to have shallow women approach me shallowly , flirt with me all shallowly, and fuck me, sluttily or lustily. Because despite how 'alien' or 'disturbing' your luxury problems may feel to you, you get to rub elbows with women and maybe one of these sluts turns out to be the love of your life.

Well, the sacrifice, to have fucked all these sluts! How 'devaluing!' Lol man, fuck you!

i think that was one of the points the poster in the other thread you mentioned was making. how good looking we are is incidental to what sort of person we are and if someone is interested in you just because they like the way you look it is clear where their priorities lie - just the same as if they wanted to date you with no other knowledge apart from the fact that you were wealthy.

Oh, no doubt about it I am sure! If I can't sign up for good looks, gimme money. Let me be a millionaire and attract sluts to me only interested in me paying their way. Come to me all you gold diggers and shallow bitches! Yes, screw my brains out, use me and abuse me: you have me right where I want you. In my bed. Still one of you will find out I am awesome and I will find out you are awesome. And we will grow ancient together.

Expose me anytime to all this devaluation!

so you are ugly. perhaps it will be more difficult for you pick up what society considers hot women for casual sex, but is that what you want? my impression from your posts elsewhere is that you seek a more meaningful connection than that - a connection of minds to which beauty is inconsequential.

No. I am cursed with really average, maybe somewhat below average looks. I am not ugly, I refuse to believe that. But I am shallow. I seek women above my ranking. Maybe. But I know what I like in psychical appearance. It is subtle and specific.

I wonder what this actually is. Is it the nose, is it the eyes, is it all of the parts together. There is something intangible about the girls I think are spectacular.

Anyway, I am shallow, I want a good looking woman. If a rat football player can have a model on his arm, why can't I find that one gorgeous girl with a mind that is set on my looks? We have a saying here 'there is no pot so crooked there is no lid to fit it.'

In the same way I look for this special girl, that special girl must be out there that looks at me, faints, recovers, gets wet just by looking at me from 1 mile away.

And that is just for looks. The rest, you are right, need to fit too. I will compromise on looks, but she needs to adore me to death and look at me with utter devotion. When she talks to her friends, she must speak of me like I am totally insanely lovable and awesome. That girl will be loved and respected by me in ways that the world has not experienced since 2300 BC.

 

[redbaron]

 

[doncarlzone]

Variform is there any topic you cannot turn into your insecurities about women?
Have you ever in any discussion on this forum, considered changing your perspective a tiny bit on this issue? You seem incredibly stuck in your ways.

It seems obvious that you're looking for a mother figure to say: "I'm here for you and I wont leave you". Haven't your psychiatrists figured this out yet?

Btw, if you're looking for shallow love which could potentially turn into real love, then there are plenty of places you could travel to and be the rich man.

 

[StevenM]

My mind and thinking has been back at baseline now for a little more than a few days. No more crazy trips, or feeling psychotic. I'm ready to take on the world.

 

[Grayman]

My mind and thinking has been back at baseline now for a little more than a few days. No more crazy trips, or feeling psychotic. I'm ready to take on the world.

Im glad.

 

[Grayman]

Variform is there any topic you cannot turn into your insecurities about women?
Have you ever in any discussion on this forum, considered changing your perspective a tiny bit on this issue? You seem incredibly stuck in your ways.

It seems obvious that you're looking for a mother figure to say: "I'm here for you and I wont leave you". Haven't your psychiatrists figured this out yet?

Btw, if you're looking for shallow love which could potentially turn into real love, then there are plenty of places you could travel to and be the rich man.

He is seeking a greater meaning to things, a woman who represents those things. She would be the reason for living and the hope in a dark world.

Many of us may think this is unhealthy but we must trust Veriform to do what is right by him. There are reasons why he holds to this value, reasons we cannot know for certain. Real or not this idea lends him hope and purpose. Perhaps there will be a day he finds purpose in other things but until that day comes there is nothing of greater value to change him. Without reason of his own to change he will not want to.

We must respect his choice and realize we don't know the whole situation.