Please help. I'm going mad

[doncarlzone]

We must respect his choice and realize we don't know the whole situation.

You're right.

 

[Minuend]

I disagree. Some people are largely oblivious and have no idea what is in their best interest and thus continue to destroy themselves further.

I can illustrate this by a more extreme example: I believe that I must cut off my right arm and glue on a dead bodies arm I dug up from the graveyard to feel good about myself.

Sure you can accept it and hope that it will make me feel better, but I think it should be kinda obvious why this isn't always such a good idea. Especially when there are alternatives that can make things better in a more reliable and long lasting way.

 

[Base groove]

Variform,
TMills,
anybody else with a hint of schizotypy,

 

[Variform]

He is seeking a greater meaning to things, a woman who represents those things. She would be the reason for living and the hope in a dark world.

Many of us may think this is unhealthy but we must trust Veriform to do what is right by him. There are reasons why he holds to this value, reasons we cannot know for certain. Real or not this idea lends him hope and purpose. Perhaps there will be a day he finds purpose in other things but until that day comes there is nothing of greater value to change him. Without reason of his own to change he will not want to.

We must respect his choice and realize we don't know the whole situation.

I share these things openly and he sees it fit to belittle and condescend me. I feel deeply offended. I went to bed and lay in the dark scared to be banned but came back to turn my PC on again to delete my initial response.

I find such attacks very hurtful. And I am very vulnerable to them. My mother is so demented I recently heard, that she is basically childlike. And she can no longer be held accountable for what she did to me. Whoever and whatever I am, I do not deserve to be spoken to like he did.

And I don't even understand what that picture means the other guy posted.

 

[StevenM]

It sucks for us Variform, because you seem to be frustrated with something which could be fixed. You do mention many times that you are distraught over not having love, and the life you do prefer. It's an interesting place to bring out your dilemma (on an INTP forum), because you will get many intellectual and rational answers on the steps you can take, and ideas that you can consider.

We are all pointing you in some direction, but you seem not to budge. The best therapists in the world can only give you the tools and a map; your the one that has to use them, and take the steps and go. There is no enchantment to make things fall in your lap. There is no one that can do it for you. I find that just a little bit of effort and an open mind can go a long way.

 

[Grayman]

And I don't even understand what that picture means the other guy posted.

Base Groove has his own language and I am still discovering it. He is an unique individual.

I'd imagine he is saying that your monsters/fears are but you casting your own shadow. You don't have anything to fear but what you create yourself.

 

[Grayman]

I find such attacks very hurtful. And I am very vulnerable to them. My mother is so demented I recently heard, that she is basically childlike. And she can no longer be held accountable for what she did to me. Whoever and whatever I am, I do not deserve to be spoken to like he did.

I don't believe the world cares for what we deserve or expect. The only thing you have control of is what you take from what is said. If someone tries to upset me, I do not give them the privilege of my emotional reactions. Your strength can come from transcending such things. Be outside the control of your circumstance.

 

[redbaron]

I find such attacks very hurtful.

Truth hurts.

 

[Grayman]

I disagree. Some people are largely oblivious and have no idea what is in their best interest and thus continue to destroy themselves further.

I can illustrate this by a more extreme example: I believe that I must cut off my right arm and glue on a dead bodies arm I dug up from the graveyard to feel good about myself.

Sure you can accept it and hope that it will make me feel better, but I think it should be kinda obvious why this isn't always such a good idea. Especially when there are alternatives that can make things better in a more reliable and long lasting way.

Yes, but appropriate and very delicate measures must be taken when helping others. We still have to respect their decisions.

I don't like this example because this person you created is just insane and outside of reason. Variform is reasonable and logical but his world is seen different than you see yours. I see my world differently than you do yours. Everyone sees their world differently.

In your example, what you can do is very limited. Do you plan to hold the person down and watch day and night to prevent them from cutting off their arm? First we must understand. Then we must accept what cannot be changed and do what we can.

 

[Grayman]

Truth hurts.

I think he was referring to some perceived insult to his mother in this example. Your statement is likely to be misread and then we will have a runaway problem on our hands.

I don't think anyone was insulting his mother but that is what he thought.



***In response to what you are talking about, it was not what was said as much as the way it was said.

 

[StevenM]

I've just seen a glimmer of Fe in grayman

 

[Minuend]

Yes, but appropriate and very delicate measures must be taken when helping others. We still have to respect their decisions.

First thing is not contrary to what I said. Second thing I disagree with. There is no reason we have to respect a decision if it's obviously flawed. This is situational, though.

I don't like this example because this person you created is just insane and outside of reason. Variform is reasonable and logical but his world is seen different than you see yours. I see my world differently than you do yours. Everyone sees their world differently.

Then perhaps you misinterpreted my example. I was trying to illustrate why there is limit to much we can accept as a form of "living a different life".

In your example, what you can do is very limited. Do you plan to hold the person down and watch day and night to prevent them from cutting off their arm?

Getting into specifics about my example is irrelevant. That will branch into a different debate on to what degree we should be allowed to prevent people from harming themselves, how to approach treatment etc.

First we must understand. Then we must accept what cannot be changed and do what we can.

This isn't contrary to what I said. It's possible to not respect a decision, but accept that you can't do anything to change the outcome of what the person does.

I'm not saying that in Variform's case, the forum needs to have an intervention and needs to address the issues with him. I'm just disagreeing with the principle of accepting obvious destructive behavior because "people have their own way of seeing the world".

As for Variform, some of his behavior reminds me of an inverted narcissist (from middle of page). He does seem to have moments of clarity, but often he becomes stuck in his obsessive thinking. And I don't really think anyone without knowledge of to approach such can do anything to change or influence his beliefs.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I disagree. Some people are largely oblivious and have no idea what is in their best interest and thus continue to destroy themselves further.

I can illustrate this by a more extreme example: I believe that I must cut off my right arm and glue on a dead bodies arm I dug up from the graveyard to feel good about myself.

Sure you can accept it and hope that it will make me feel better, but I think it should be kinda obvious why this isn't always such a good idea. Especially when there are alternatives that can make things better in a more reliable and long lasting way.

Yeah, using regular glue in that situation wouldn't be really reliable or long-lasting, or even stitches. Maybe use some kind of strong adhesive then wrap it with duct tape?

 

[Variform]

I think he was referring to some perceived insult to his mother in this example. Your statement is likely to be misread and then we will have a runaway problem on our hands.

I don't think anyone was insulting his mother but that is what he thought.



***In response to what you are talking about, it was not what was said as much as the way it was said.

I meant the picture of the black dude in the car... what does it mean?

I find it nasty to suggest 'mommy issues'. Yes I have them. They haunt my life and I have great difficulty leaving that behind me. This is a process and I am actively working through it.

I find the remarks painful because I cannot go to her - I stopped all contact with her in 2003, she was not dementing then - and express what she did wrong raising me. (And my brother.)I once did, before 2003. And she just very easily shrugged her shoulders and made a half-assed attempt of apology, that was not heartfelt. But this was only in relation to my idea that she should have guided me and my brother more to go out, meet girls.

Now, after 10 years of talks with a psychologist, I realize the abuse was much more fundamental. But no she escapes my judgment fleeing in dementia. She is alive, but childlike and won't understand a letter that I planned to write anymore.

My brother will understand, but he is on her side because he STILL hasn't figured out he was abused too and damaged. He is older than I am and I am in my 40's. And he NEVER LEFT THE NEST! He never had sex. In this he is off worse than I am, unless he went to a prostitute....

He never had his own place to live, he still lives in the attic. If I have mommy issues, think about him.

The difference is that he was the example that I had to submit to. So he was the receiver of the good abuse and I the receiver of the bad abuse.

So my love life was destroyed before it began by my overbearing mother, who was a really bad role model for me for women. If I ever hoped to get a sincere apologetic response from her, that hope is pretty much gone. My brother will open my mail and not even let her read it, because he will find it immoral to upset her in this condition.

So I understand he didn't insult me, but I do have mommy issues but I find it phrased like that totally...unacceptable. These are fucking life scarring issues that are destroying my life and to tone it down to 'mommy issues' is so over the top minimizing them that it hurts. It is totally insensitive. It is dismissive and condescending and while Minuend talks about "Some people are largely oblivious and have no idea what is in their best interest...", what about taking responsibility for how you write to another? How is it in my interest to be spoken to that way? How is it in anyones interest to be told they have 'mommy issues'.

Talk about an inferior function. Yet, INTP's ought to have a brain too and using a brain you can logically reason that it is not the right way to talk to someone.

 

[Minuend]

I can see that I wrote it to be interpreted as addressed to you, Variform. But I wrote "some people" because I meant it as a general principle.

Though generally speaking again: Not all people do react beneficially to understanding and constructive advice. I've seen all kinds of people having various issues or angers being met with understanding and constructive questions or advice. What happens in most cases is that the conflicted individual continues to behave or believe exactly what he did before. He might even be even more sure of where he's coming from.

So, yeah, sometimes it's not in a person's "interest" to be spoken to constructively. There are even times a person can improve by being insulted. Of course, determining such instances isn't something anyone can do. And I'm not claiming I can judge people to such fine nuances either. I'm just saying it's a possibility.

 

[Base groove]

I meant the picture of the black dude in the car... what does it mean?

Oh that? That gif basically meant he stopped by briefly, saw this thread for what it is, laughed in your face, and drove off. I think it's a clip from the movie Get Rich or Die Tryin'.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

But seriously, it is the ancient and eternal case of 'if you didn't experience it, you don't truly understand what its like'.

perhaps you should consider how that applies both ways before you casually dismiss other people's problems.

Fact is, we aren't telepathic beings. You go live in the head of an 'ugly' guy for a week and see the difference. Luxury problems. I would murder, maim and kill 50% of the world population just to have shallow women approach me shallowly , flirt with me all shallowly, and fuck me, sluttily or lustily. Because despite how 'alien' or 'disturbing' your luxury problems may feel to you, you get to rub elbows with women and maybe one of these sluts turns out to be the love of your life.

Well, the sacrifice, to have fucked all these sluts! How 'devaluing!' Lol man, fuck you!

why are you so hostile? i was trying to help you improve your self-esteem by pointing out that for some people there are much more important factors than appearance when deciding who to fuck and love.

Oh, no doubt about it I am sure! If I can't sign up for good looks, gimme money. Let me be a millionaire and attract sluts to me only interested in me paying their way. Come to me all you gold diggers and shallow bitches! Yes, screw my brains out, use me and abuse me: you have me right where I want you. In my bed. Still one of you will find out I am awesome and I will find out you are awesome. And we will grow ancient together.

Expose me anytime to all this devaluation!

No. I am cursed with really average, maybe somewhat below average looks. I am not ugly, I refuse to believe that. But I am shallow. I seek women above my ranking. Maybe. But I know what I like in psychical appearance. It is subtle and specific.

I wonder what this actually is. Is it the nose, is it the eyes, is it all of the parts together. There is something intangible about the girls I think are spectacular.

Anyway, I am shallow, I want a good looking woman. If a rat football player can have a model on his arm, why can't I find that one gorgeous girl with a mind that is set on my looks? We have a saying here 'there is no pot so crooked there is no lid to fit it.'

In the same way I look for this special girl, that special girl must be out there that looks at me, faints, recovers, gets wet just by looking at me from 1 mile away.

And that is just for looks. The rest, you are right, need to fit too. I will compromise on looks, but she needs to adore me to death and look at me with utter devotion. When she talks to her friends, she must speak of me like I am totally insanely lovable and awesome. That girl will be loved and respected by me in ways that the world has not experienced since 2300 BC.

so you're not even really ugly? i get the impression that your problem attracting sluts (as you put it) might be less about your actual physical appearance and more to do with your obsessive insecurity about it and your resentment of physically attractive people - these are truly not attractive characteristics.

 

[StevenM]

Oh that? That gif basically meant he stopped by briefly, saw this thread for what it is, laughed in your face, and drove off. I think it's a clip from the movie Get Rich or Die Tryin'.

In making this thread, I was merely trying to explore characteristics of spiritual and psychotic experiences and if they relate, as it seemed that I was going through one. I wanted to identify if the revelations and notions brought up from these events have basis in truth, or were merely delusions.

I still haven't came up with a conclusion whether spiritual experiences are the same as being psychotic. I did agree with what Jenny had to say about them being personal self-fulfilling prophesies, at least in my case. I did come to an agreement with myself that there was nothing magical about it, it was just the psyche processing some difficult information.

I'm happy with my conclusion, and don't seem to mind that it derailed into Variform's issues. But again, it was intentionally to explore psychosis and spiritual experiences.

 

[Variform]

Oh that? That gif basically meant he stopped by briefly, saw this thread for what it is, laughed in your face, and drove off. I think it's a clip from the movie Get Rich or Die Tryin'.

I never saw it. But why would anyone be so disrespectful?

 

[Variform]

perhaps you should consider how that applies both ways before you casually dismiss other people's problems.

I don't understand that.

why are you so hostile? i was trying to help you improve your self-esteem by pointing out that for some people there are much more important factors than appearance when deciding who to fuck and love.

That may be the case, but that works only for people with low libido's and/or an ability to relativate their emotional needs. Or maybe find a way to suppress them out of view.

I am very sensitive and vulnerable to beauty. I am cursed to be someone who appreciates beauty and wishes for it and am unable to lower my standards in advance. Yet, when I would meet someone, if ever I would, that is mediocre to my senses, yet is honest in her affection for me, I would reciprocate and be totally happy for the true love she brings.

so you're not even really ugly? i get the impression that your problem attracting sluts (as you put it) might be less about your actual physical appearance and more to do with your obsessive insecurity about it and your resentment of physically attractive people - these are truly not attractive characteristics.

I would show you a recent picture but I am to private and insecure that it would be send around. In all my time on internet I showed two people myself.
I am not resentful of attractive people, but I am jealous. When I see them talk about their issues with relationships I think of it as luxury problems. And I explained that. It is so much more a better deal to be handsome as a guy and 'endure' the shallowness of casual sex or, if you don't like to be that way, at least have the flirting going. Because such interaction can lead you to meet that special girl that you 'saved' yourself for.

Whereas I never had any girl interested in me. And why I don't know. If you want to understand large portions of me to 'improve my self-esteem' read Elliot Rodger's manifesto. He and I are quite similar.

 

[Variform]

In making this thread, I was merely trying to explore characteristics of spiritual and psychotic experiences and if they relate, as it seemed that I was going through one. I wanted to identify if the revelations and notions brought up from these events have basis in truth, or were merely delusions.

I still haven't came up with a conclusion whether spiritual experiences are the same as being psychotic. I did agree with what Jenny had to say about them being personal self-fulfilling prophesies, at least in my case. I did come to an agreement with myself that there was nothing magical about it, it was just the psyche processing some difficult information.

I'm happy with my conclusion, and don't seem to mind that it derailed into Variform's issues. But again, it was intentionally to explore psychosis and spiritual experiences.

Well, these are all the same issues. I think the way I seek love and affection is very spiritual in nature, bordering on almost psychotic ideation of romance and females. To me it seems romance is as much an Earth-flavored spiritual awakening this side of death compared to being in heaven.

Maybe there are no scales to consider, so that there is a black-white distinction between being psychotic or not. Maybe all of us are psychotic, which is a basal mental vector, among other such vectors, where some people 's arrow, if you like, is fatter than those of others.

 

[Base groove]

I never saw it. But why would anyone be so disrespectful?

Uhh, well I mean I can't say I've for sure interpreted it correctly; it could mean anything, but the poster who posted it ... in my experience, has a penchant for gross disrespect of others from time to time.

Like I said... it could mean anything, I just told you what I thought it meant.

Besides who cares about being disrespectful if he's right? This thread is but a little silly after all, not largely intellectual at any rate... not of particular interest for dominant thinking types of the everyday variety.

TMills doesn't have to defend himself over it. Another week or two and this thread will be buried and forgotten, right?

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

I don't understand that.

i was just pointing out that there might be problems associated with attracting attention due to being thought physically attractive that may not have occured to you. it seems that you see only advantages of being attractive and dismiss the problems that attractive people have as trivial.

That may be the case, but that works only for people with low libido's and/or an ability to relativate their emotional needs. Or maybe find a way to suppress them out of view.

i don't know why you assume that is the case, it isn't in my experience. whilst i can appreciate certain aesthetically pleasing physical traits i am never moved to lust by those alone. i'm often extremely attracted to quite unattractive (by normative standards) fat, old, bald - whatever - they become attractive to my eyes as i come to admire their character. by the same mechanism truly beautiful people sometimes turn hideous before my very eyes as i discern their unpleasant personas.

I am very sensitive and vulnerable to beauty. I am cursed to be someone who appreciates beauty and wishes for it and am unable to lower my standards in advance. Yet, when I would meet someone, if ever I would, that is mediocre to my senses, yet is honest in her affection for me, I would reciprocate and be totally happy for the true love she brings.

then what's problem? you just need to make sure that you don't allow your high standard of beauty to prevent you from making an initial connection with someone who might turn out to be the love of your life.

I would show you a recent picture but I am to private and insecure that it would be send around. In all my time on internet I showed two people myself.

well, i am quite curious about what you look like now! i understand your preference for privacy though, i've never posted my picture anywhere either.

I am not resentful of attractive people, but I am jealous. When I see them talk about their issues with relationships I think of it as luxury problems. And I explained that. It is so much more a better deal to be handsome as a guy and 'endure' the shallowness of casual sex or, if you don't like to be that way, at least have the flirting going. Because such interaction can lead you to meet that special girl that you 'saved' yourself for.

Whereas I never had any girl interested in me. And why I don't know. If you want to understand large portions of me to 'improve my self-esteem' read Elliot Rodger's manifesto. He and I are quite similar.

if you want to be found attractive (and for your general mental well-being) i think you need to let go of the jealousy - it's a bitterness that rots the soul. focus on the things about yourself that you do like and the ones that you may not like so much but can do something to improve. if you can do this you will feel more confident and be able to initiate flirting instead of waiting for gorgeous women to fall at your feet.

i don't really have time to read the manifesto atm but i've picked up some of the general points from the various threads about him. i'm sorry that the circumstances of your life have left you feeling so alienated. i can relate to you on that if for different reasons. but the past is the past, dwelling on it only wastes your precious life. you are an adult now, free from the control of your family and childhood bullies. you can determine your own path.

 

[Variform]

I wonder what sort of problems may arise from being generally considered handsome. Someone mentioned some of the things he disliked. But I have a difficult time remembering it or putting the finger on it. I think he mentioned the assumptions girls would have about him.

But that goes for me too. Isn't there the assumption that if you are syb-par, your character could be ugly too? Isn't that what all these classics are about, like Frankenstein and the 80's series called 'The Beauty and the Beast'? These are stories about coming to terms with the fact that someone ugly can have a beautiful soul.

But that is all philosophy. Maybe the problem is not I, but all the rest. Maybe everyone else is so smeared by the way society works. A matter of priorities. I think overall having great looks makes life easier than when you are ugly. Fortunately most people are sort of in-between, and all people have something about them that redeems them from absolute rejection. And if it is not in the looks, their spirit can compensate a lot. If ever discovered.

You say you can discern unpleasant persona's by looking at them. You lie.
But...if...you would be neutral, you would agree with me that looking at a fat bald person you should just the same be able to discern his ugliness of character.
But it is funny how you example fat and bald as 'character' as if it is a flowery synonym for ugliness.

About making connections, don't worry, I won't. I can't. Since I know this, it is all hypothesis. And so maybe that is why I hold onto my admiration of beauty.

What I can improve... is my weight. But only perhaps with medication. For me it seems that ADD medication will work twofold:

- it will reduce appetite
- it helps with motivation, so I can work out

Sometimes I wish I had bulimia. And I could use a dose of anorexia too. It is just a very bad thing to have and anyone struggling with it, my sincere apology: I do not wish anyone to think I am so shallow as to underestimate or cause inflation on that dx. Even yesterday I saw such a person on Dr. Phil, they rolled in a young woman in a wheelchair, had a seizure and was now mentally handicapped, in a vegetative state, no contact possible.

To have anoroexia is so dangerous and so bad and they cannot stop their behavior. It is like ADHD, a brain disorder. You cannot with power of will work it away, as you cannot stop your own heart from beating. I am in the same situation. I always felt lazy and was told often to not be. That I didn't apply myself.

Hell, I tried, but failed. It just won't work. But yes I can in principle determine my own path, life is precious. But what I see ahead of me is no fun. I hope this ADD thing is gonna help me.

 

[Base groove]

You say you can discern unpleasant persona's by looking at them. You lie.
But...if...you would be neutral, you would agree with me that looking at a fat bald person you should just the same be able to discern his ugliness of character.
But it is funny how you example fat and bald as 'character' as if it is a flowery synonym for ugliness.

Ummmmmm you have misinterpreted what she wrote.

PBnJ if I'm wrong, then sorry, but I have noticed this wrong and must redress it if I can, where I can, while I can.

• She did not say she can discern personas through visual identification.
• She did not say fat and bald are character attributes.

These are both misinterpretations that you have made for some reason, V.

To clarify: what she said was that her criteria do not revolve around physical attractiveness, but character, which can be discerned through interaction with a person,

whereas fatness/baldness can be assessed from a distance. She is saying that fatness/baldness/attractiveness are 'not unattractive' if she has the opportunity to assess somebody's character, and if she does not, then perhaps she remains neutral and is not inclined to assess the 'attractiveness' of a stranger at all.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

thanks BG, that was spot on.

it's like you somehow knew that laziness stalks my every keystroke and did my homework for me, woohoo, now i can play!

 

[Variform]

If that is true, who does she take home one night. The fat mediocre guy with the pleasant character or the handsome fit-bodied guy with the pleasant character.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

who's she?

if they're equally interesting (and not just blandly pleasant), i'll take them both.

 

[Latte]

If that is true, who does she take home one night. The fat mediocre guy with the pleasant character or the handsome fit-bodied guy with the pleasant character.

Not to imply she would "take someone home one night" (many people aren't really emotionally cut out for that due to sensitivity, trust tresholds, sexual attraction tresholds with temporally significant factors, etc. not uncommon on this forum), but...

If the two guys don't differ in any other way that and she has to choose one, then why not the the handsome fit-bodied guy (assuming this bodytype is the more attractive one to the chooser)?

If two pretty much identical people were available to you, and one of them had an aspect of them being more attractive to you than the other, but they differed in no other way, then you choose the person who gives you the higher yield in terms of you being attracted to that person... unless you choose the other out of some sense of charity in thinking he will not find another person suitable for him but the more physically attractive person will, or.... I don't know.

Or, don't you? Let's say it's another aspect than looks that's different. There's two people, identical looks, identical almost everything. But one person's humor is far more suited to your taste, or maybe the person is just more witty in general.

People will weigh various aspects of people and how they come together in a complete person differently in their assessment of how attractive someone is to them.

If PNB says she weighs some things more than the average person does and some other things less than the other person, a question aimed at gouging how accurate that claim is would be one that would aim to measure the relative impact of certain aspects on how much she finds someone attractive. To ask a question that basically asks "does it matter at all" only checks whether it matters to her at all, which she has already said it does.

 

[Base groove]

who's she?

if they're equally interesting (and not just blandly pleasant), i'll take them both.

Spoiler

 

[ZenRaiden]

Right. I was diagnosed with onset of schizophrenia and paranoia. Its basically impossible to recall what I thought when I had psychosis. It was much random and nonsensical, but at that time I thought I was freefalling and it felt like I am falling into an abbys, while I had this feeling that my brain was being cooked. I did not know what was happening. It felt like my forehead is going to explode and the brain is just going to fall out. My thoughts were hard to grasp because they were racing and too fast to get an grip on them. That being said I still dont know if I have had psychosis or not. Only thing I know is that I did have paranoid feelings about people. Now that I am on medication I am less stressed and the ideas that were previously so abudant that virtually everyone and everything seemed like a evil plot against me which was long time before the actual psychosis where I got hospitilized. That being said if you get to that point even if you are delusional you get to the point and realize that something is not normal. That being said it only becomes clear and evident after the psychosis not during. Today I get paranoid thoughts all the time, but they are delayed due to medication so while I would think that someone is out to get me now I think the same thing but with significant delay. Its like when I speak to someone I walk away and think "normally I would think hes out to get me but this time no!"

 

[Variform]

who's she?

if they're equally interesting (and not just blandly pleasant), i'll take them both.

You lie.

 

[Variform]

The onset? You either have it or you don't. There is no 'onset'. Doctors should be more precise.

 

[ZenRaiden]

The onset? You either have it or you don't. There is no 'onset'. Doctors should be more precise.

I did have psychosis, but the psychiatrist said it could develope to full paranoid schizophrenia.

Actually sorry its my bad choice of words.

 

[Minuend]

The onset? You either have it or you don't. There is no 'onset'. Doctors should be more precise.

Hmm? Schizophrenia onset is usually in young adulthood.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Geez Variform get real, schizophrenia is an incredibly broad and ill defined diagnosis.

Had a room mate when I was hospitalized and called the guy from next door a CIA agent or whatever and accused him that his listening through the wall. Then he accused few people being famous acters etc. I think when you see a delusional person with hallucinations you just know.

 

[Variform]

I did have psychosis, but the psychiatrist said it could develope to full paranoid schizophrenia.

Actually sorry its my bad choice of words.

No, it is the fault of the shrink. You had a psychosis, Fine. Many diagnoses have that as a symptom. For a shrink to take that and run with it, assuming, suggesting, guessing, speculating that it could develop into anything I find, I judge, highly unprofessional.

No psychiatrist should suggest anything without a proper diagnosis. He cannot and should not scare clients with big words that he has no proof of exists in this person.

He EITHER, the blistering idiot, completes a full diagnosis, OR he does NOT speculate as if freely associating on the myriad possibilities.

But standards differ per country, as well as quality of mental health professionals. I find it disturbing and highly unprofessional to let you go with questions as to what you were experiencing and what the cause was. You do NEVER tell someone 'listen buddy, you may be developing full blown paranoid schizophrenia.'

That is like telling someone 'hey man, you might have cancer, but we don't really know, let's just wait and see...'

If he truly suspects you may be schizophrenic, which, if the case, you are for life, for god sake that rat bastard, he must do a proper diagnostic procedure. Or else he is just throwing you to the wolves of chance.

It is a bad diagnosis to have and it could mean a lifetime of struggle. You don't go telling anyone that unless you know it for a fact. And with that I mean a decent diagnostic procedure and the conclusion must be based on the proper standard of conducting said procedure.

 

[nanook]

it's very common that a diagnosis is communicated to a patient, because it has to happen on paper, for instance if i ask a physician, who doesn't know me, to transfer me to a psychiatrist, he will write his suspicion(!) (based on 10 sentences with me) onto a paper and since he knew my father who is kind of norman bates and those materialistic morons believe that schizophrenia is a genetic disorder, his suspicion is schizophrenia, so the paper reads literally "suspected schizophrenia". i get that transfer/referral paper into my hand and to show it to the psychiatrist. yeah, i wasn't happy.


some people will sue you, if you suggest they might have burn out syndrome. my father considered doing that to a psychiatrist. but the psychiatrist needed to make up a reason for giving him stress relieving (and coincidentally antipsychotic) injections. some people start to make a scene if you tell them that they might have a neurosis. i always found that laughable and then i cried when i was told that i might be schizoid because i had a habit of misinterpreting my father as schizoid, so it was a true "luke i am your father, no wait luke, actually you are darth vader" moment.

it's best to free yourself from the believe that a diagnosis tells you anything about yourself. that's not what it's designed to do. it's designed to communicate some cues inside of the bureaucratic health care system. cues about what to do with you and what to pay for, what to expect. none of these people can look into your brain, none of them know what they are dealing with, it's just management. the problem isn't that doctors are incompetent, it's your naive believe that competence is possible. as long as you agree with the treatment, for your own good reasons, not because you have been told to, you can safely accept the diagnosis.

you are essentially alone with ayahuasca or whatever else you make the doctor of your choice prescribe to you, by begging for it or by telling him about having just exactly those symptoms, that you read about on the internet.

 

[Variform]

Well, aren't you the smart German. You are right. I know all that. But does ZenRaiden?

Most people who come into contact with psychiatry don't. When I came into contact with this field, I was green as grass too. I quickly studied up, read and learned you can trust these people as far as you can throw them. You have to learn how to use them and deal with them.

I always press people for keeping things in their own hands. Be vocal. Understand your rights. You take the decisions, for using a medication for example. And whatever you should use, study it carefully.

 

[crippli]

Well. I am still suspicious of what my psychologist makes of me. I did press the point a few weeks ago, when we discussed various possibilities. She said to me that she didn't think I had schizophrenia anymore. But said she thought I had it when we first met some years ago. I became slightly shocked. But it was me that asked, so I appreciated that I was answered.

I remained calm. Because I understand that the psychological profiles are a spectrum. And everyone got everything. It's only when one have more of a feature, or less, and it causes problems, that a diagnoses is made. One who is not diagnosed, and the feature doesn't create problems. Can have more then one who is diagnosed and find the feature an issue. And well. I am in the clear, at least for now. So that's good news.

I am quite sure though, because I haven't had a psychoses. If I did, they would send me straight to the ward. I also had these people who arrange with welfare, work and money and all that stuff. That they stressed me up, and told me psychologist I didn't want to talk to them no more. That was the last I heard from them. She said she thought it was important that I was relaxed and be free to go about my own interests. I much agree with that.

 

[QuickTwist]

I read about .5% of the thread and can tell you you don't have anything to worry about. What you are experiencing is normal behavior. Schizoid type thinking is much much worse.

 

[sushi]

go work out and play a sport

 

[QuickTwist]

When you have psychosis and are catatonic then you know you have schizoid type thinking. Ah what the hell, I'll be nice. Go see a psychologist. There you can talk about your emotional pain and they can then diagnose you. Just FYI, heartbreak can do all kinds of things to someone, but most the time it is just normal emotional pain.

 

[StevenM]

The exact same situation (with the exact same person) has happened before in the past, and I had a hard time acknowledging and compartmentalizing what happened. I put myself through the same situation a month ago when I was almost recovered, and was starting to experience the same thing. However, this time, I was able to finally get right to the truth of the matter, and was able to categorize it rationally and move on.

I have been doing great since then, and am now much more educated and aware.

Which made the article including Jung's thoughts on psychosis interesting. I wonder if in some cases, a psychosis can be an attempt of the mind and psyche to sort out delusional and irrational beliefs, and if gone through successfully, an awakening of repressed truths of reality and of one's self.

 

[Adesant]

I think I have a more a realistic perspective than last night, and decided to reread the whole article again. I found it all very interesting.

Not sure why, but this time the article calms me down. Yes, perhaps this situation is different than schizophrenics, or maybe not. Maybe it is a natural process, and maybe it will help me. Even though it's very intense, and frightening, it's not something I should overly panic with. I just wish it would slow the hell down, and give me a chance to digest what is coming at me.

Or, still I'm open to the idea that it may be a mental illness, that should be kept in check. Or maybe a bit of both.

Hey TMills27. I found this thread very interesting. I suffered a severe psychosis a few years ago and was nearly diagnosed with Schizophrenia but I recovered quickly. The article you linked is extraordinary interesting.

About schizophrenics - Some may be stuck in "lower" and less intense forms of it, slowly plunging down into the disease over several years, sometimes decades (bad prognosis), while some may be severely schizophrenic for days or weeks, or months (better prognosis) before recovering. Also, some people are more or less intelligent, and some are more or less will-powered (finding enough will and posessing enough intellect to tackle the situation).

Thanks guys for interesting reads.

I hope all is well with you man!