Personality Trouble

[BigApplePi]

My wife sent me this email this morning. I usually don't read this kind of thing, but since it was about a theoretical physicist it caught my attention. Since it is a New York Times article, don't know how long the link will remain. There will be a quiz at the end though. Fortunately for you I will give you the quiz question right now: Do you think there is any reason for this guy NOT to be an INTP?

The Professor, the Bikini Model and the Suitcase Full of Trouble
By MAXINE SWANN

A world-renowned physicist*meets a gorgeous model online. They plan their perfect life together. But first, she asks, would he be so kind as to deliver a special package to her?"
http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?locat...bfb2c&email_type=eta&task_id=1362832212951098
(same link)


Whether or not you read the whole thing (I did), the Q remains the same: Do you think there is any reason for this guy NOT to be an INTP?
_____________________________________
*Paul Frampton, a theoretical particle physicist

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I see I have 24 hours to edit the above post so that gives me a chance to do so. I didn't realize it at the time but this story is a wonderful example of "distance." Distance is one of the six tools for understanding.

In this case we have a man who feels something for a woman who isn't there. He doesn't know she isn't there. He doesn't even know what goes on in his mind is a fantasy and the relationship itself is false. This ignorance spreads to the rest of the world who sees through the fantasy but get the facts wrong because they don't know him. They don't believe an isolated theoretical physicist who is smart enough to be a Nobel candidate could be so ignorant in another area, yet it's true.

 

[Nick]

theoretical physicist.. well I can tell you he doesn't sound like an ESFJ.

 

[joal0503]

Whether or not you read the whole thing (I did), the Q remains the same: Do you think there is any reason for this guy NOT to be an INTP?
______________________________
*Paul Frampton, a theoretical particle physicist

i dont know much about typologies...keep that in mind...but id say,

Frampton’s long-held defense — that he was duped because he had a childlike understanding of the ways of the world

doesnt sound too intp ish...but of course it could just be TRUE, if its in the context of his childlike understanding of relationships.

the whole premise of being duped by an online relationship scammer...seems more emotional than logical. on top of that, he thought he was meeting Denise Milani? if thats true, its even more bizarre that an intp would fall for something that a skeptical mind would see as an obvious red flag.

but then again, this dude is 68? personal relationships could be completely alien, exacerbate this by including new communication technology and i could almost see it.

But overall, i would say this gullibility has too much emotion attached to it. that seems to pop out.

 

[Polaris]

I don't quite understand why this question is significant; whether or not there are any reasons for Peter Pan/Mary Poppins NOT to be INTP.

That question could hypothetically apply to anyone.

It's like saying: Person is acting according to character/recipe/preconceived judgements of others.

Therefore: Person must be XYZQ.

How limiting.

There is too little specific information in the article about his character to draw any conclusions about type (and why is his type important?). I cannot even type myself, dammit.

So, from what I understand (or am I wrong?) is being implied here is that being INTP (naive/gullible stereotype) possibly excuses this person (Frampton) from being perceived as stupid?

He was stupid. INTP or not.

 

[joal0503]

I don't quite understand why this question is significant; whether or not there are any reasons for Peter Pan/Mary Poppins NOT to be INTP.

That question could hypothetically apply to anyone.

It's like saying: Person is acting according to character/recipe/preconceived judgements of others.

Therefore: Person must be XYZQ.

How limiting.

There is too little specific information in the article about his character to draw any conclusions about type (and why is his type important?). I cannot even type myself, dammit.

So, from what I understand (or am I wrong?) is being implied here is that being INTP (naive/gullible stereotype) possibly excuses this person (Frampton) from being perceived as stupid?

He was stupid. INTP or not.

its not significant, just interesting. i agree with a lot of the points you make here.

i interpreted the OP as the implication being INTP exposes this man's inability to grasp a realworld relationship. but as you say, nothing exclusive about a specific personality.

 

[BigApplePi]

Some who having typing skills can get clues from still photographs. Take a look at these of Paul Frampton.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Pau...eD5MM_x0wHkwIEQ&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1503&bih=796
I'd say he has rather warm eyes indicated a feeling type. The model shown is the one he was interested in. Hmm. What would he see in her?

 

[Polaris]

Typing skills from photographs?

So "warm eyes" completely exclude an INTP possibility?

This is pure speculative drivel. I'm outta here.

 

[joal0503]

i love how 'paul frampton' now yields tons of pictures of denise milani in google search.

see i dont get how visual photographs can tell you anything about a personality. or at least on a consistent basis. i have my doubts about mbti, but thats just another topic i suppose.

i just see an old, horny dude.

i mean i could extrapolate and just guess...but ultimately the variance of pictures themselves, with angles, lighting, etc...its capturing just that single moment, not somebody's real personality. And besides with pictures, people generally pose for them, and theres nothing authentic about putting on a fake smile.

what does he see? ... what CANT he see? those things are gigantic.

"a schizoid personality disorder that prevents him from making normal social connections and renders him unusually gullible."

^ that makes more sense than, "he was just an INTP"

 

[BigApplePi]

Typing skills from photographs?

So "warm eyes" completely exclude an INTP possibility?

This is pure speculative drivel. I'm outta here.

That's a very interesting response. Not one I would make if it were me. I'm just tossing out stuff I've heard. I've heard even Adymus ask for photos. Of course a smile need not be representative. Nevertheless we have a real person with a real story. If we could identify what is missing ... and eliminate ... that's the idea. Of course we can dismiss the whole thing as Polaris suggests.

This is a real story but it reminds me of a famous old film: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Angel
In it a professor gives up his honored professorship to chase after a circus girl and you can see the price he pays. Apparently being alone and having a fantasy of love with someone will make one blind and lose something an INTP values most, his reason. There have been threads to this affect on this Forum if I'm not mistaken.

Note this kind of thing is not confined to the male sex, but I don't have a ready example.

 

[Polaris]

That's a very interesting response. Not one I would make if it were me.

Save the condescending tone for someone else, please.

I'm just tossing out stuff I've heard. I've heard even Adymus ask for photos.

Even Adymus. What is he, some sort of authority on this very dubious of subjects? As if that would sway my stance, somehow?

So the point being made is even 'rational' (in this case male) people must "pay the price" (indicating something negative?) by being human (acting on one's desires)?

I don't think that is the first time someone has reached that conclusion.

 

[MissQuote]

To the question in the OP (since things are seeming to wander away from that and into whether the guy was guilty or not due to desire):

I would never feel comfortable bragging about myself in such grandiose ways, save to someone I was very very close with and who I knew would never divulge the things I said publicly as I knew they knew they were just rants and not my real view on reality of the world or myself.

I have also never met another INTP who would do so, either.

For this reason I would say he likely is not an INTP, just a naive and/or manipulative human.

 

[BigApplePi]

@Polaris. For me this is one of the most difficult posts to respond to. I don't have to respond at all, but I feel there is something about me you don't know and that leaves me a little wounded.

Save the condescending tone for someone else, please.

When I said I found your response, "interesting" I meant it. But I'd have to look at myself to find out why and not sure I can answer. I did not mean to give that impression as condescending, but I must have.

Polaris. I'm a person who wants to admit flaws. I have them and don't care in the sense that I accept myself. If I make an error out of ignorance that's okay. Ignorance is what precedes knowledge and I want to accept the before and enjoy the after. I don't know how you take to that. I don't know if you would have said that to a female. Not sure.

I am not a good type judger because I've not studying it although I've come across plenty of clues on the INTP Forum. I remember some of the skilled typists referring to facial reactions below and above the nose line ... or something like that. I'm half chatting here and half serious.

Note that though I didn't say explicitly in the OP (original post) it was about distance in understanding, it was. I think that applies to us here.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think the article goes beyond type. I'm not sure what the point would be to "typing" him when we have a much more exact and clear picture of him to start with.

I think the worst (well, besides the obvious gullibility, being lonely enough to desperately needing to believe that a foreign model would want to marry him, AND being warned by a friend ahead of time exactly about what was going on) was that he supposedly made all those "jokes" about drug trafficking and then got called on it.

 

[BigApplePi]

I have to think that regardless of what "type" he is, this is a valuable contributor to society ... at least in the physics field. He deserves some sort of protection. If his crime was naivete then his punishment should fit the crime.

Ever seen the film "Midnight Express"? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077928/
This was a terrifying film about the same kind of drug issue for an American kid. He was guilty, but the punishment was barbaric.

 

[EditorOne]

Keep in mind we're looking at characteristics or traits through a third party, the journalist who wrote this.

I don't know what type he is, but bad judgment from emotionally based decisionmaking is surely something INTPs share from time to time. We prefer thinking partly because we're not good with emotions - but we have emotions. The stronger the emotion, the more likely I am, at any rate, to make a mistake.

Just in general, I'm wondering why, if he wasn't gulled, he would try to smuggle cocaine. He doesn't seem to be a fellow who needs the drug, the money or anything other "baggage" (sorry, couldn't resist) that goes with cocaine smuggling.

 

[BigApplePi]

According to some this guy thought the bag was empty. He didn't check for a hidden compartment ... or if he did then he ignored it.

I just realized how close I came to a situation like this. I once took in a girl into my apartment who couldn't pay her rent. (Some people take in stray cats or puppies.) She told me a story of how someone stored a package with her once. It contained $50,000 of concaine. I ignored her story as one of her dramatic down and outers. She had asked me what I thought of it, but I ignored the story. It just dawned on me, what if the package were still with her and she had moved it in with me? Without knowing it, if she were caught I would be caught too. Geez. A person can be innocent and still get into a lot of trouble.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

So, hacker news had a really discussion on this article: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5343590

Especially:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5345909

I think the unique thing about this story is that we don't know for sure that he "fell" for it...or, at least we don't know what he fell for, exactly.

There's the simplest explanation: that he, like the archetypical older, single, naive man he seems to be, fell for an online scam.

But most online scams don't end up with people in a foreign prison. The prosecutors argued successfully that he knew what he was doing, and the texts shown as evidence seem to indicate that he knew something.

But how much was that something? Did he go through the scheme because he believed his online lover was real and that this was just a task to prove his worth to her (and get them some money)? Or did he know everything? That is, he needed money and he figured that, unlike all those other dumb drug mules, he could use his history of seeming like an aloof nerd and make the case that he "accidentally" smuggled drugs across the border.

Layered on top of this is that we're reading this after he's been sentenced. He of course doesn't want to say anything revealing until he's out of jail, but he's retelling this crazy story even after it's failed in court. Which seems to indicate that he actually was bamboozled...and yet, what about those text messages? What about all those days in the airport, waiting for the e-ticket to Brussels that arrived too late? He never once was curious what was in the bag? Even the idiots in Dumb and Dumber looked in the bag.

This story is fascinating because I'm sure anyone who knows the professor even on a casual basis could spend hours at the dinner table trying to untwist the WTFs. It's a particularly great story because there are so many loose ends, but they are ends that are loose for very understandable reasons.

Whatever type this guy is-- he's not very well developed. He's been cushioned by academia and hasn't had to develop other skills. That's why the professor still has his Hubris with him-- and in the end the Hubris, thinking that he could out-smart everyone, led to his downfall.

 

[BigApplePi]

Now that this thread has continued such interest, I just realized something. Ordinary people do not accept ridiculous or unlikely premises. But people who have the minimum intelligence CAN accept false premises. You can see it all the time on this forum. After all, an unlikely premise is a tryout for unusual possibilities. That is what intelligent people do. Pretty soon the reality of the fantasy can play a joke on us:

The INTPf High Court of Justice

 

[Jennywocky]

Now that this thread has continued such interest, I just realized something. Ordinary people do not accept ridiculous or unlikely premises. But people who have the minimum intelligence CAN accept false premises. You can see it all the time on this forum. After all, an unlikely premise is a tryout for unusual possibilities. That is what intelligent people do. Pretty soon the reality of the fantasy can play a joke on us:

The INTPf High Court of Justice

Shuddup, noodle boy -- you're dead!

 

[BigApplePi]

Shuddup, noodle boy -- you're dead!

You see? Shot by a female stalker who could no longer stand holding such admiration.

 

[Jennywocky]

You see? Shot by a female stalker who could no longer stand holding such admiration.

.... I remember it very differently... something with noodles and a bottle of Jim Beam honey?

Whatever type this guy is-- he's not very well developed. He's been cushioned by academia and hasn't had to develop other skills. That's why the professor still has his Hubris with him-- and in the end the Hubris, thinking that he could out-smart everyone, led to his downfall.

I think that, while the truth of the case still seems ambiguous to me, that much can certainly be said. He's pretty lopsided in his perceptions and approaches to life situations.