• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Personality Destruction

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
Personality Destruction

My primary interest is in reaching the boundaries of human perception and identity, and then breaking through those boundaries. I've spent months experimenting with this, using many methods. Some notable ones:

1. Antinomianism. I have striven to understand the moral codes and boundaries of modern society, and then to consciously and systematically violate them. This technique is designed to free my perception from cultural and judgmental limitation. As a result, I have no morality or fixed value-system. I can't see anything as good or bad- only as another aspect of perception/experience.

2. Willed identity change. I have constructed a 44-week long experiment designed to undermine fixed identity, exercise latent aspects of my potential character, and destroy my old, singular personality. The experiment is divided into 22 2-week cycle. During the first week, I learn everything possible about a mythological or archetypal figure. I immerse myself in its mythology.
During the second week, I ''become'' the figure. I strive to act as that figure would during every moment of every day. How I act, communicate, dress, think, feel and spend my time is all determined by the paticular mythological or archetpyal character which I am emulating.
I have completed 5 personalities (so have spent 10 weeks in total experimenting), and have 17 left to go.

An example:

15_The_Devil.jpg


This picture is the basis of a single personality, ''Pan''. It is the pagan God from which the medieval Devil was derived. During the first week of the cycle for this character, I would research as much of its symbolism and mythology as possible. I would immerse my though in it. At the start of the second week, I would begin to ''act'' the card. In this case, I would be living from pure sensuality and uninhibited impulse. I would think the ''darkest'', most moral-violating thoughts possible. I would be very much ''in character'' by the second day (in the same way that it's hard to drop an assumed accent after using it for a long time). I would tone the character down slightly if I had to attend a formal event, but I would still stay in character. I try to emulate the most extreme characters (such as this one) during school holidays.


After emulating 5 cards, willfully violating as much of common morality as I could without risking incarceration, and using many other techniques... I have lost any sense of fixed identity. I'm... baseless. My conception of who I am changes as quickly as a normal person's mood changes. It's almost as if I'm formless, and can assume many forms at will. With each experiment, I move further away from the inherited personality of youth and towards a self-created and flexible state of existence.

One aim of my experimentation is to free myself from normal ideas of what a human should be and percieve, and thus enhance my creative and artistic pursuits.

Comments welcomed ...
 

ViS

Member
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
49
---
Location
UK
I'll be experimenting with this to a far lesser extent compared to your experiments.
 

severus

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
518
---
Location
U.S.
This is very interesting. Could be very useful. Hm.
 

preilemus

Ashes
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
826
---
wow

if you succeed in your endeavor, let us know. this seems like something I would be willing to try...

very interesting btw. did you come up with this by yourself, or did you hear about it somewhere?
 

flow

Audiophile/Insomniac
Local time
Today 10:58 AM
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
1,163
---
Location
Iowa
While you're trying to transcend identity, I'm just trying to develop one of my own.
 

RobertJ

Active Member
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
227
---
This is very interesting, and I see it as a great challenge. Particularly any identity that would require much extroverted behavior. Not only that, but the people who are familiar with me would be totally perplexed at such sudden changes in behavior I would most likely alienate myself from all my relationships. It requires a lot of courage and a strong will to do this I think.
Yeah, I'm very interested to hear the results of your experiment, especially how it impacts the relationships with your friends and family.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
Thanks all- people rarely appreciate/understand this kind of experimentation. Despite my skepticism about the MBTI model, I am grateful that it facilitated the gathering of similar (unusual) individuals in one place.

wow

if you succeed in your endeavor, let us know. this seems like something I would be willing to try...

very interesting btw. did you come up with this by yourself, or did you hear about it somewhere?

Well, it's already occurring. I am tangibly closer to my goal with each experiment. After only 5 cards, I am a radically different person.

I originated and experimented with a form of the personality-emulation technique while traveling Asia. I would adopt specific traits, such as 'becoming' a charismatic or witty person. The particular version I'm doing now was mentioned on an old occult tape I was listening to; it fascinated me so much that I just had to do it. I intend to use it for more varied purposes, such as emulating fictional characters and real people, after I have finished my current experiment.

I came up with the systematic antinomianism independently, but have since discovered that various mystical/'magical' philosophies make use of similar techniques.

This is very interesting, and I see it as a great challenge. Particularly any identity that would require much extroverted behavior. Not only that, but the people who are familiar with me would be totally perplexed at such sudden changes in behavior I would most likely alienate myself from all my relationships. It requires a lot of courage and a strong will to do this I think.
Yeah, I'm very interested to hear the results of your experiment, especially how it impacts the relationships with your friends and family.
People are quirky, in that they'll bend over backwards to fit your current actions into the role you play in the narrative of their life. I make use of this by artificially engineering events that give *them* excuses for my behavior. For example, if emulating an aggressive card I might make it seem like I was having relationship issues. However, it is lonely. Very few (and only the very closest) friends understand what I'm doing, and my genetic family (who I dislike anyway) have become convinced that I'm erratic and unstable.

These are all prices that I am more than happy to pay, though. I have become more alive, and my one-to-one relationships with those closest to me have intensified greatly as a result of my being shaken out of the undeveloped, small INTP world I used to live in. I have developed all kinds of perceptions, such as extreme compassion and empathy, that I never had before. I would prefer to suffer but live fully than be comfortable in half-life.


A curious result is that my ''Ni'' has become as strong as my ''Ti'', both slightly ahead of my ''Ne''. Perhaps this kind of experimentation develops functions so far, and so unusually, that the MBTI model can't account for the changes?
 

severus

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
518
---
Location
U.S.
*awe* This is truly amazing.

Don't actors frequently act as their present character would? And, do they experience personality changes from that?

Do you feel like acting as a character/someone else is tiring (in any sense of the word)?
Have you been having any strange dreams since you started this experiment?
Do you think it is possible for all your functions to become equally strong, both through your methods and in general? If so, do you think a person with equally strong functions would relate to other people better or worse than a "normal" person?
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
*awe* This is truly amazing.

Don't actors frequently act as their present character would? And, do they experience personality changes from that?

Do you feel like acting as a character/someone else is tiring (in any sense of the word)?
Have you been having any strange dreams since you started this experiment?
Do you think it is possible for all your functions to become equally strong, both through your methods and in general? If so, do you think a person with equally strong functions would relate to other people better or worse than a "normal" person?

I don't think that traditional acting methods involve strong identification with the character played. Method actors, however, often ''become'' the character they are playing. Some actors who use this method remain in character while off stage/camera. They (and those around them) often report lasting changes, but they do not experiment in as consistent and varied a way as I do, and thus do not achieve results like mine. Note that I don't just act like the emulated personality- I think, feel, dress, experience, and live like the emulated personality. I become it in every way (although I don't say ''I'm Pan''... I just identify with it internally).

It can be very tiring, depending upon what personality I am emulating. Certain personalities, such as The Hierophant (moralism, socially defined identity, judgement, preachiness... basically acting like an evangelist), clash with my integrated (normal) patterns of behavior and perception. Adverse, even bizarre, effects can occur towards the end of a week of emulating these. When emulating the Hierophant, my entire personality began to malfunction, and I could barely perform the most basic of tasks. It clashed with who I was, and eventually (after emulation) took me further away from it than when I started. However, it was ultimately very beneficial, because it taught me much about who I can and cannot be at this stage in my development.
Emulating Pan (The Devil), by contrast, affected my psyche so profoundly that I can feel the effects even now, weeks later. It unlocked something within me which I cannot lock away again. It transformed who I am and got rid of a lot of who I used to be (good riddance).

Strange Dreams- well, I always do. Perhaps more importantly, I've been using several visualisation/enhanced imagination techniques which, in combination with the previously discussed methods, have led to the development of Sound > Colour synesthesia and visionary states. The barriers between different aspects of perception are crumbling more and more, and my experience of the life is diverging further and further away from the norm.

Functions Equally Developed- I'd like to have an answer, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure if I'd want that. I think that it is possible to temporarily and significantly enhance specific functions using my methods, but I haven't worked out a way to permanently integrate those into the personality/meta-personality. I've found that when you forget who you're meant to be, all kinds of percpetual/behavioral functions prevoiusly unavailable can quickly become highly developed (or act as a highly developed person's would). So perhaps it is possible to have all functions available to you in a highly developed form, but not all the time. This is speculation, though.

------------------------------------------------------

I forgot to mention earlier that it's very helpful to have an object or image associated with the personality. That way, it's possible to 'be' the personality while the object (such as a card) is on your person, and 'be' your integrated self again when the object has been put away. It also, if it accurately represents the personality, allows for a central idea beyond words. Given the changes in perception which have occurred as a result of experimentation, I've found it very useful to have a reference (an object) that isn't limited by the clumsiness of language.
 

Waterstiller

... runs deep
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
730
---
Location
over teh rainbow
(I didn't really read past the first post; srry)

I don't think you'll be undermining fixed identity. I'd argue that there is no such thing as fixed id entities to undermine (that is, if I cared more). What you're doing seems to be attempting to speed up the natural process of change that we all go through. Such an experiment would provide you with some interesting experiences, and what you might experience is personality expansion - but you're still a single personality. IE: nothing fundamental to your will change. You're still the same you in time and space. Though you might feel otherwise; take a shitload of Salvia and you might experience ego death to some degree.. but that's still a subjective experience lol.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
(I didn't really read past the first post; srry)

I don't think you'll be undermining fixed identity. I'd argue that there is no such thing as fixed id entities to undermine (that is, if I cared more). What you're doing seems to be attempting to speed up the natural process of change that we all go through. Such an experiment would provide you with some interesting experiences, and what you might experience is personality expansion - but you're still a single personality. IE: nothing fundamental to your will change. You're still the same you in time and space. Though you might feel otherwise; take a shitload of Salvia and you might experience ego death to some degree.. but that's still a subjective experience lol.

[EDIT: looking back over your post- I see that I misinterpreted it. Should have read more carefully]

Calling the personality singular is just as subjective. It's a linguistic categorisation, not an objective evaluation of structural data. You also assume that there is such a thing as a fixed ''you/me'' in ''time and space''; I counter that what you believe to be a single person is actually a single process in spacetime, and that one stage of that process at one cross-section of spacetime does not neccessarily equate to ''the same person'' as another stage of that process at another cross-section of spacetime. There is no ''essential youness'' (believing that there is stems from confusing linguistic maps of reality with the territory- reality itself), and very fundamental aspects of an individual at one point in his development can be different than from at another point. For example, he could have had a psychotic break or have taken permanently brain-changing drugs, thus changing something very ''fundamental''. My experiments have dramatic effects- they may not make the single continuous process that I constitute into more than one process, but they definitely play a significant part in how that single process unfolds, and alter the perceptions and identities available to that process (''me'').
 

Waterstiller

... runs deep
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
730
---
Location
over teh rainbow
I have an odd feeling that this conversation isn't going to get anywhere. Just to clarify - I don't think there is a fixed 'you' to undermine. All you're doing is what we all do naturally but attempting to speed the process up or perhaps steer it.


Anyways, this is all I'm seeing:
News1_2.jpg
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
I have an odd feeling that this conversation isn't going to get anywhere. Just to clarify - I don't think there is a fixed 'you' to undermine. All you're doing is what we all do naturally but attempting to speed the process up or perhaps steer it.


Anyways, this is all I'm seeing:
News1_2.jpg

Thanks for the input...
 

flow

Audiophile/Insomniac
Local time
Today 10:58 AM
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
1,163
---
Location
Iowa
Are you a senior in a large high school?
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
I'm in the equivalent of high school in the UK.
 

flow

Audiophile/Insomniac
Local time
Today 10:58 AM
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
1,163
---
Location
Iowa
Ah I see. The perfect time to lose oneself. See you on the other side, brother.
 
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,786
---
Location
Cambridge
XIII manipulates his genes and is a gender bender.
 

Concojones

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:58 PM
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
301
---
Location
EU
That willed ID change experiment is **** fascinating! :)

Can I talk you into keeping a log of your daily adventures on this forum? ;)
Anyway, private or shared, you should keep a diary for your own future reference!

Back to topic: I do see some of the potential, for instance, when emulating a character that has characteristics you'd like to develop. 'Develop' may even not be the best description. Let's say there are behavioural patterns that you favour over others, only because that's what you usually do (they're more familiar). A merit of your emulation experiment is that you're forced to behave in ways you'd normally avoid (whether or not consciously). Whether the result is a richer behaviour, or more spontaneity, it will then pay off long after the experiment has ended. For me, it's basically an intense form of acting (24/7) and therefore you get more out of it.
 
Last edited:

EditorOne

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,695
---
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
"Don't actors frequently act as their present character would? And, do they experience personality changes from that?"

Some do. Long ago in a place far far away then-famous actor Rod Steiger came to my college campus for a rather information speaking engagement. He was prepping for his role as Napoleon Bonaparte, and attempting to live each day as Napoleon, with the consent of his entourage. It was very interesting when one of his staff brought him a hot dog with mustard instead of the catsup he'd demanded. He glared at the fellow, walked over to a trash can and threw the thing into it, then stuck his nose in the air and resumed his explanation of something in movies. Everyone was horrified, we weren't in on it, and he finally "broke first person" and explained what was going on.

When I did a stint as a "background artist" for a Civil War movie back in 1994 we who were on the set for the full 11 weeks learned it was OK to talk with the 'speaking part' actors at lunch or whatever, but not on the set when they were ramping up to shoot a scene. None of them did the Steiger thing, but all of them used at least a few minutes to put themselves in character.

So, yeah, this does happen to some extent, at least to the point of adapting their personality for a limited purpose of acting. Doubtful if they regularly keep that personality, because they're always moving on. Unless you're John Wayne; John Wayne always played John Wayne.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
That willed ID change experiment is **** fascinating! :)

Can I talk you into keeping a log of your daily adventures on this forum? ;)
Anyway, private or shared, you should keep a diary for your own future reference!

Back to topic: I do see some of the potential, for instance, when emulating a character that has characteristics you'd like to develop. 'Develop' may even not be the best description. Let's say there are behavioural patterns that you favour over others, only because that's what you usually do (they're more familiar). A merit of your emulation experiment is that you're forced to behave in ways you'd normally avoid (whether or not consciously). Whether the result is a richer behaviour, or more spontaneity, it will then pay off long after the experiment has ended. For me, it's basically an intense form of acting (24/7) and therefore you get more out of it.

Yes, emulating one trait or personality has very little effect compared to emulating many. The aim isn't really to integrate or learn any one behavioral/perceptive pattern; the aim is to enhance mental/personal flexibility, and thus gain access to many behavioral/perceptive patterns. It is more the process of emulation than the actual character emulated that leads to results. (Actually... I'm not sure what the aim of the experiment is. There are so many benefits, and it changes me so much, that all I can honestly say is that I'm doing it and will complete the experiment)

As for an online journal... I originally intended to do that, and logged the first 3 weeks of the experiment on another website. However, I wasn't comfortable with the amount of information about my life that was being kept online. I do keep an extensive private journal, though. I write after I have finished emulation, because to do so during emulation would be breaking character.
 

Mars

Member
Local time
Tomorrow 3:58 AM
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
93
---
Location
The place between places. That's right, code for l
XIII, You say that you are seeking to destroy your personality. However, I am led to think that maybe you are just developing tools of your current personality in a very hap-hazard way, which leads me to believe that the title is somewhat deceptive.

However I must ask you, have you done a laughing god yet? I got taken with the notion of the laughing gods a little while back and kind of took a fair bit of it on board. It's been a long ride of insanities, jovialities, superfluous trivial eccentricities and entertainment. all good fun really
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
XIII, You say that you are seeking to destroy your personality. However, I am led to think that maybe you are just developing tools of your current personality in a very hap-hazard way, which leads me to believe that the title is somewhat deceptive.

However I must ask you, have you done a laughing god yet? I got taken with the notion of the laughing gods a little while back and kind of took a fair bit of it on board. It's been a long ride of insanities, jovialities, superfluous trivial eccentricities and entertainment. all good fun really

'Personality Destruction' is as somewhat inaccurate linguistic metaphor, yes. It was really designed to get people to open the thread and read what it was really about. I wouldn't call it 'hap-hazard' either, given that no 'ordered' tool of this kind, to my knowledge, exists, and given that the 22 personalities are designed to encompass as comprehensive and archetypal range as possible.

"Mirth'' is one quality of Pan, but I haven't done a laughing god yet.
 

Gorgrim

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:58 PM
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
256
---
Location
Denmark
i understand you are looking for the places in your mind that are hard to make active. for example, if i focus i will be able to draw something in better detail, by memorizing what i'm drawing looks like. Its not a state that im naturally in, the gap between my usual processes and the drawing processes are big.

Another aspect is feelings. They are hard to tab into for me.

But, no matter what I try change, my overall performance doesn't change much, but the specific kinds of performance does. The benefit would be that changing mind-states would become easier over time. But does it? seems to take the same amount of energy each time. Integrating different processes becomes easier once you train in those different processes? I don't know if thats true... but...

In either case, you can integrate a certain amount of processes at once, and they will be used for different skills you have acquiered.

Different processes can do different things.

you will be more flexible if you're better at tabbing into new processes, and thus be able to acquire skills that need those processes. I agree on that. But does it become less energy-expensive with training? and is your default mind locked in position, will I always default be poor at remembering names ?
 

meshram.alok

Member
Local time
Today 10:28 PM
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
96
---
Location
Bombay
Okay this sounds a bit unnerving. The reason is, I think you might go overboard with this and forget your core - the reason why you began these experiments in the first place. Maybe not. All I'm saying is, be careful.

P.S. I have two movies for you to watch:

1. The Man from Earth
2. Batman: The Dark Knight (Please pay close attention to the Joker). Heath Ledger died after this role.

P.P.S. Currently I am in my INFP mode and that is only making me exaggerate my feelings (fear and anxiety).
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
Okay this sounds a bit unnerving. The reason is, I think you might go overboard with this and forget your core - the reason why you began these experiments in the first place. Maybe not. All I'm saying is, be careful.

P.S. I have two movies for you to watch:

1. The Man from Earth
2. Batman: The Dark Knight (Please pay close attention to the Joker). Heath Ledger died after this role.

P.P.S. Currently I am in my INFP mode and that is only making me exaggerate my feelings (fear and anxiety).

Thank you for your concern, but I'm going to ignore it. I fully intend to forget any core which can be forgotten. If self-destruction is necessary for the completion of this experiment- well, at least I will have lived brilliantly and creatively before I'm destroyed.

I've watched both of these films, and the psychological metaphors and archetypes in both are crude and practically irrelevant to my experiment.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
No, I've primarily tried to express the results and benefits of this experiment in linguistic metaphors which makes sense to the target audience. The results of my perception/identity experimentation have already been tangibly transformative. I'm a completely different person, my perception has been enhanced and diversified, and the relationship between my identity and my action has changed. However I describe what has happened has no effect on the fact that... a *lot* has changed since I started.
I started this experiment before I was acquainted with MBTI, and I only talk about 'processes' because that's what this forum focuses on.

i understand you are looking for the places in your mind that are hard to make active. for example, if i focus i will be able to draw something in better detail, by memorizing what i'm drawing looks like. Its not a state that im naturally in, the gap between my usual processes and the drawing processes are big.

Another aspect is feelings. They are hard to tab into for me.

But, no matter what I try change, my overall performance doesn't change much, but the specific kinds of performance does. The benefit would be that changing mind-states would become easier over time. But does it? seems to take the same amount of energy each time. Integrating different processes becomes easier once you train in those different processes? I don't know if thats true... but...

In either case, you can integrate a certain amount of processes at once, and they will be used for different skills you have acquiered.

Different processes can do different things.

you will be more flexible if you're better at tabbing into new processes, and thus be able to acquire skills that need those processes. I agree on that. But does it become less energy-expensive with training? and is your default mind locked in position, will I always default be poor at remembering names ?
 

Chimera

To inanity and beyond
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
963
---
Location
Lake Isle Innisfree
Oddly enough, this is something I've considered doing before (though not quite as ehm...extensively). I never actually attempted it, but it was the main idea of a story I started to write.
 

Fluffdaddy

Member
Local time
Today 8:58 AM
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
44
---
Location
8th Layer of Hell
Honestly, i am jealous. I have considered this before (but not to this extremity) i want to know what it feels like, feeling, boundless. please keep posting your results i would love to hear more about it.
 

Gorgrim

Active Member
Local time
Today 5:58 PM
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
256
---
Location
Denmark
my 'Processes' has nothing to do in particular with mbti

a process in your body does not have to be a rough classification of personality types

a process is just a process....

I'm afraid you're not going to have your cake and eat it too, but then again, nothing wrong with working extensively at something since you might learn something. Essentially, in terms of mbti, youre moving around what processes you use. My point was simply about tabbing into the regions used when for example painting. And shutting out the others at the same time.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
my 'Processes' has nothing to do in particular with mbti

a process in your body does not have to be a rough classification of personality types

a process is just a process....

I'm afraid you're not going to have your cake and eat it too, but then again, nothing wrong with working extensively at something since you might learn something. Essentially, in terms of mbti, youre moving around what processes you use. My point was simply about tabbing into the regions used when for example painting. And shutting out the others at the same time.

Fine. My main point is that results have been significant, and have transformed my entire psyche. Whatever I say about the possible reasons for this (i.e . processes) is simply an attempt at an explanation to those who don't have direct experience of it.
 

Halcyon

Member
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
36
---
Location
Elsewhere
This experiment is amazing and I am glad that you exist. Also your your ideas of how language can't create an accurate map of reality are very enlightening. Theoretically there are infinite concepts; perhaps we tend to ignore the ones that can't be expressed in language, or we distort them by forcing them into language, thereby changing our perception of them.

I have also thought about the willful acquisition/destruction of personality traits, but not to the extent you have. In social situations I can become very stressed and awkward and thought of two ways of dealing with it. One: developing extroversion so I could easily handle social or potentially awkward situations, or Two: develop such a strong sense of identity that I could simply become indifferent to the stress of social situations or awkward tension. I have always glorified the types of people who can lose themselves in their intellect and simply have no stake in the process of inter-personal interaction. Unfortunately, I spend too much time analyzing and regretting how I behave in the aforementioned process and my social ineptitude is something that I find would be difficult to change.
I find that it is too difficult to escape my fundamental self, especially since I go to a very small high school where I've acted the same way around everyone for 4 years. I'm impressed that you've been able carry out this experiment as a high schooler consider some of the personalities you are adopting. I applaud your strength to persevere in alienating others and the loneliness.

Sometimes it dawns on me that we only have one life and that I have spent much of mine trapped inside of it rather than living it. What you are doing seems to be something that could get more out of life than most us could imagine. Our nature determines how we interact with our environment, which creates our experiences, which influence our perceptions, which determine how we see the world. But who is to say that we cannot destroy these perceptions, acquire new ones, and thereby expand our reality?

Also why do no longer feel attached to your genetic family? I understand if you don't care to say, but perhaps it is something I could relate to.
 

preilemus

Ashes
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
826
---
@XIII: would you mind sharing the list of characters you are using in your experiment? that is, if youve already decided on what they all are
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
An example personality description:

Card XV- The Devil, Pan, Capricorn, Ayin

Pan- The All-Begetter

With thy right eye create all for thyself, and with the left accept all that be created otherwise

1) I rejoice in the rugged and barren no less than in the smooth and fertile. All things equally exalt me. I am the complete appreciation of all existing things. I love life.
2) I am the inherent drive to create, free from conceptualisation and socialisation. I am life force.
3) I am the shadow of structured, moralistic society. I am the true life which they deny and struggle against.
4) I am the ecstatic liberation in blind impulse. I am divinely unscrupulous, sublimely careless of result.
5) I am the tempter. I seduce Hir to embrace the pleasure of now and here; of life.
6) Mirth: all is play and all amuse me. I am divine hilarity.
7) I am the divine madness of spring. I am ecstatic, orgiastic intoxication. I am drunken ecstasy, the end of worry.
8) I am the dance of existence. All to me is play, and all play to me is fair.
9) I am life itself, unrestrained, in mad Love...
10) I am masculine, creative strength... challenge and conflict stimulate my mirth, intoxication, and impulsive creation.

||IMPULSE, DIVINE MADNESS, SEXUALITY, INTOXICATION, INHERENT POWER, UNIVERSAL EXALTATION||

I am he who was, is, and shall be. I am world-soul. I am self-aware archetypes.
This is just the basic essence of the personality. I create numerous mind-maps, and spend a week doing extensive research on every aspect/symbol of the card. I research all mythological figures referenced (in this case, the pagan god Pan and how he became the Christian ''Devil''). I carry the card with me wherever I go, visualise it as often as possible in the research week (Week 1 of 2), and change my entire environment to reflect the card. I put the image *Everywhere*- I print it out in high quality and put it all over my walls, set it as my desktop background etc. If possible, I wear a symbolic item of clothing that reflects the personality. For the devil, I used an inverted pentagram belt-buckle.

I've thus far hesitated from giving the characters, because of common misconceptions about, and misuse of, the Tarot. I use The Major Arcana because it is an attempt at a visual representation of the human psyche, and thus provides as complete an archetypal range as possible. The Thoth cads, which I use, integrate and reference Pagan, Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, and Medieval mythology. I initially laid out the bare conceptual structure of the experiment so that we didn't get lost in discussion of irrelevant details (I've previously been accused of trying to achieve ''mystical magick'' when mentioning Tarot cards during my initial explanation).

The primary usefulness of using Tarot cards is that they are central images to which personalities can be anchored, and from which linguistic descriptions can be derived. I can simply look at the image and evoke the basic sense of the personality, instead of being trapped by verbal descriptions.

For the sake of emphasis- there is *nothing* mystical or divinatory about my uses of Tarot cards. Any drawn archetypal system would do, but the Thoth Tarot is the most interesting and comprehensive I have come across.

To choose my next personality, I just shuffle the deck and pick a random card. *That* is true anticipation...


Here are *very* basic verbal descriptions of all of the cards, taken from ''The Book of Thoth'' and ''The Truth About The Tarot''. Some of these descriptions don't translate easily into ''personalities'', but all of the cards themselves do.

0 The Fool - chaotic experience; rapture and i n t o x i c a t i o n ;
w i s d om in s p i r i t u a l matters, folly in material; the agony
and the ecstasy.
1 The Magus - great intelligence; s k i l f u l manipulation.
II The Priestess - divine inspiration and/or blessing.
III The Empress - fruitful production through femenine
influence or qualities.
IV The Emperor - Reason; male aggression and honour.
V The Hierophant - Intuition; the w i s d om of age and of
the ages.
VI The Lovers - the union of opposites; or, indecision.
VII The Chariot - triumph, but only if soft feminine qualities
are employed w i t h i n a hard, masculine exterior.
VIII Adjustment - Justice; essential balance, or failure to
maintain it.
IX The Hermit - Illumination f r om w i t h i n ; retirement, per¬
manent or temporary; self-sufficiency; 'to thine own self
be true.'
X Fortune - Great good fortune if well-aspected; the re¬
verse i f i l l .
IX Lust- Courage, strength, energy. A great love.
XII The Hanged Man - punishment, self-sacrifice, suffering.
XIII Death - A major transformation.
XIV Art- Harmony between conflicting forces.
XV The Devil - Immense force; b l i n d impulse; eruption of
animal instinct.
XVI The Tower- Great conflict; sudden and devastating event
or realisation.
XVII The Star - Hope and idealism f u l f i l l e d unless badly
aspected, in which case heart-breaking disappointment.
XVIII The Moon - Illusion, fantasies, dreams and shadows un¬
less w e l l aspected; then 'the darkest hour before the dawn.
XIX The Sun - G l o r y and great joy.
XX The Aeon - Taking a definite step; the forceful resolution
of the question.
XXI The Universe - Persistence through difficulty if badly
aspected. Otherwise, delight in the ordering of experience.


o. THE FOOL
KNOW NAUGHT! ALL WAYS ARE LAWFUL TO INNOCENCE. PURE FOLLY IS THE KEY TO INITIATION. SILENCE BREAKS INTO RAPTURE. BE NEITHER MAN NOR WOMAN, BUT BOTH IN ONE. BE SILENT, BABE IN THE EGG OF BLUE, THAT THOU MAYEST GROW TO BEAR THE LANCE AND GRAAL! WANDER ALONE, AND SING! IN THE KING'S PALACE HIS DAUGHTER AWAITS THEE.
[FONT=&quot]In spiritual matters, the Fool means idea, thought, spirituality, that whichendeavours to transcend earth. In material matters, it may, if badly dignified, mean folly, eccentricity, or evenmania. But the essential of this card is that it represents an original, subtle, sudden impulse or impact, coming from a completely strange quarter.All such impulses are right, if rightly received; and the good or ill interpretation ofthe card depends entirely on the right attitude of the Querent. [/FONT]
I. THE MAGUS
[FONT=&quot]The True Self is the meaning of the True Will: know Thyself through Thy Way.Calculate well the Formula of Thy Way.Create freely; absorbjoyously; divide intently;consolidate completely. Work thou, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent,in andfor Eternity. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Skill, wisdom, adroitness, elasticity, craft, cunning, deceit, theft. Sometimes occultwisdom or power, sometimes a quick impulse, a brain-wave". It may implymessages, business transactions, the interference of learning or intelligence with thematter in hand. [/FONT]
II. THE HIGH PRIESTESS
[FONT=&quot]Purity is to live only to the Highest; and the Highest is All; be thou as Artemis to Pan. Read thou in theBook ofthe Law, and break through the veil of the Virgin.[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Pure, exalted and gracious influence enters the matter. Hence, change, alternation,increase and decrease, fluctuation. There is, however, a liability to be led away by enthusiasm; one may become "moon-struck" unless careful balance is maintained. [/FONT]​

III. THE EMPRESS
[FONT=&quot]This is the Harmony of the Universe, that Love unites the Will to create with the Understandingof that Creation: understand thou thine own Will. Love and let love. Rejoice in every shape of love,[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]and get thy rapture and thy nourishment thereof [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Love, beauty, happiness, pleasure, success, completion, good fortune, graciousness,elegance, luxury, idleness, dissipation, debauchery, friendship, gentleness, delight. [/FONT]​
IV. THE EMPEROR
[FONT=&quot]Use all thine energy to rule thy thought: burnup thy thought as the Phoenix. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]War, conquest, victory, strife, ambition, originality, overweening confidence and megalomania, quarrelsomeness, energy, vigour, stubbornness, impracticability, rashness, ill-temper. [/FONT]
V. THE HIEROPHANT (PRIEST)
[FONT=&quot]Offer thyself Virgin to the Knowledge and Conversation of thine Holy Guardian Angel.All else is a snare. Be thou athlete with theeight limbs of Yoga: for withoutthese thou are notdisciplined for anyfight. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Stubborn strength, toil, endurance, placidity, manifestation, explanation, teaching,goodness of heart, help from superiors, patience, organization, peace. [/FONT]
VI. THE LOVERS
[FONT=&quot]The Oracle of the Gods is the Child- Voice of Love in Thine own Soul; hear thou it. Heed not the Siren-Voice of Sense, or the Phantom- Voice of Reason: rest in Simplicity, and listen to the Silence. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]0penness to inspiration, intuition, intelligence, second sight, childishness, frivolity,thoughtfulness divorced from practical consideration, indecision, self-contradiction, union in a shallow degree with others, instability, contradiction, triviality, the "high*brow". [/FONT]

VII. THE CHARIOT
[FONT=&quot]The Issueof theVulture, Two-in-One, conveyed; this is the Chariot of Power. TRINC: the last oracle. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Triumph, victory, hope, memory, digestion, violence in maintaining traditional ideas,the "die-hard", ruthlessness, lust of destruction, obedience, faithfulness, authority under authority. [/FONT]

VIII. ADJUSTMENT
[FONT=&quot]Balance against each thought its exact opposite.For the Marriage of these is the Annihilation of Illusion. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Justice, or rather [/FONT][FONT=&quot]justesse,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]the act of adjustment, suspension of all action pending decision; in material matters, may refer to law suits or prosecutions. Socially, marriage or marriage agreements; politically, treaties. [/FONT]
IX. THE HERMIT
[FONT=&quot]Wander alone; bearing the Light and thy Staff. Andbe the Light so brightthat no man seeth thee. Be not movedby aught without or within: keep Silence in all ways. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Illumination from within, secret impulse from within; practical plans derived accordingly. Retirement from participation in current events. [/FONT]
X. THE WHEEL OF FORTUNE
[FONT=&quot]FollowthyFortune, careless where it lead thee. The axle moveth not: attain thou that. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Change of fortune. (This generally means good fortune because the fact of consultation implies anxiety or discontent.) [/FONT]
XI. LUST
[FONT=&quot]Mitigate Energy with Love; but let Love devourall things.Worship the name , foursquare, mystic, wonderful, and the name of His House [/FONT][FONT=&quot]418. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Courage, strength, energy and action, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]une grande passion; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]resort to magick, the use of magical power. [/FONT]

XII. THE HANGED MAN
[FONT=&quot]Let not the waters whereon thou journeyest wet thee. And,being come to shore,plant thou the Vine and rejoice without shame. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Enforced sacrifice, punishment, loss, fatal or voluntary, suffering, defeat, failure, death. [/FONT]

XIII. DEATH (TRANSFORMATION)
[FONT=&quot]The Universe is Change; everyChange is theeffect of an Act of Love; all Acts of Love contain Pure Joy. Die daily. Death is the apex of one curve of the snake Life: behold all Opposites as necessarycomplements,and rejoice. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Transformation, change, voluntary or involuntary, in either case logical development of existing conditions, yet perhaps sudden and unexpected. Apparent death ordestruction, but such interpretation is illusion. [/FONT]

XIV. ART
[FONT=&quot]Pour thineall freely from the Vase inthy righthand,and lose no drop. Hath not thy left hand a vase? Transmute all wholly into the Image of thy Will, [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]bringing each to its true token of Perfection. Dissolvethe Pearl in the Wine-cup; drink, andmake manifest the Virtue of that Pearl. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Combination of forces, realization, action based on accurate calculation; the way ofescape, success after elaborate manoeuvres. [/FONT]
XV. THE DEVIL
[FONT=&quot]With thy rightEye create all for thyself, and with the left accept all that be created otherwise.[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Blind impulse, irresistibly strong and unscrupulous, ambition, temptation, obsession,secret plan about to be executed; hard work, obstinacy, rigidity, aching discontent,endurance. [/FONT]

XVI. THE TOWER
[FONT=&quot]Break down thefortress of thine Individual Self, thatthyTruth mayspringfreefrom theruins. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Quarrel, combat, danger, ruin, destruction of plans, sudden death, escape from prison. [/FONT]

XVII. THE STAR
[FONT=&quot]Pour water on thyself thus shalt thou be a Fountain to the Universe. Find thou thyself in every Star.Achieve thou everypossibility. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Hope, unexpected help, clearness of vision, realization of possibilities, spiritual insight, with bad aspects, error of judgment, dreaminess, disappointment. [/FONT]

XVIII. THE MOON
[FONT=&quot]Let the Illusion of the World pass over thee, unheeded, as thou goest from the Midnighttothe Morning. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Illusion, deception, bewilderment, hysteria, even madness, dreaminess, falsehood,error, crisis, "the darkest hour before the dawn", the brink of important change. [/FONT]

XIX. THE SUN
[FONT=&quot]Give forth thylight to all withoutdoubt; the clouds and shadows are no matter for thee. Make Speech and Silence, Energy and Stillness, twin forms of thyplay. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Glory, gain, riches, triumph, pleasure, frankness, truth, shamelessness, arrogance, vanity, manifestation, recovery from sickness, but sometimes sudden death. [/FONT]
XX. THE AEON
[FONT=&quot]Be everyAct an Act of Love and Worship.Be everyAct the Fiat of a God. Be everyAct a Source of radiant Glory. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]Final decision in respect of the past, new current in respect of the future; always represents the taking of a definite step. [/FONT]

XXI. THE UNIVERSE
[FONT=&quot]Treattime and all conditionsof Eventas Servants of thyWill, appointed to present the Universe tothee in the form of thy Plan.And: blessing and worship to the prophetof thelovely Star. [/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]The matter of the question itself, synthesis, the end of the matter, may mean delay,opposition, obstinacy, inertia, patience, perseverance, persistent stubbornness indifficulty. The crystallization of the whole matter involved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Cards emulated so far:

[/FONT]
ugar19.jpg

hermit.gif

user-9901459_1171997361.jpg


I used the Rider-Waite Tarot deck for the first three cards. During my research of The Devil, I became aware of the underlying Judeo-Christian, Victorian, and life-denying attitude of this deck. I still use the above 3 cards to recall/become the first 3 personalities, because they are the images with which my experiences have become associated. From the fourth cycle, onwards I use Thoth.

Devil
thoth_thedevil.jpg

Death
13_major_death.jpg


Next Card:

Lust
11_Lust.jpg
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
I also intend to emulate these, after my current experiment:

Disorder Info

The DSM-IV lists ten personality disorders, grouped into three clusters. The DSM also contains a category for behavioral patterns that do not match these ten disorders, but nevertheless exhibit characteristics of a personality disorder. This category is labeled Personality Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified).

[edit] Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders)[edit] Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders)[edit] Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)=​
The purpose of this is negative emulation (except perhaps with elements of schizhoid, which could be useful): I emulate such qualities in order to identify and then gain control over/eliminate them.

I also intend to emulate various deities/demons from Hindu mythology (some Tantrics actually 'channel' Hindu Gods... I think this is a similar process to my emulation), character from books, and maybe even emulate using other MBTI functions (i.e. becoming ESFP for a week).
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
And finally... I'm going to emulate various archetypes of 'seducers' from Robert Greene's ''The Art of Seduction''.

The Rake:
A woman never quite feels desired and appreciated enough. She wants attention, but a man is too often distracted and unresponsive. The Rake is a great female fantasy figure-- when he desires a woman, brief though that moment may be, he will go to the ends of the earth for her. He may be disloyal, dishonest, and amoral, but that only adds to his appeal. Unlike the normal, cautious male, the Rake is delightfully unrestrained, a slave to hi love of women. There is the added lure of his reputation: so many women have succumbed to him, there has to be a reason. Words are a woman's weakness, and the Rake is a master seductive language.

The Ideal Lover:
Most people have dreams in their youth that get shattered or worn down with age. They find themselves disappointed by people, events, reality, which cannot match their youthful ideals. Ideal Lovers thrive on people's broken dreams, which become lifelong fantasies. You long for romance? Adventure? Lofty spiritual communion? The Ideal Lover reflects your fantasy. He or she is an arist in creating the illusion you require, idealizing your portrait. In a world of disenchantment and baseness, there is limitless seductive power in following the path of the Ideal Lover.

The Dandy:
Most of us feel trapped within the limited roles that the world expects us to play. We are instantly attracted to those who are more fluid, more ambiguous, than we are-- those who create their own persona. Dandies excite us because they cannot be categorized, and hint at a freedom we want for ourselves. They play with masculinity and femininity' they fashion their own physical image, which is always startling; they are mysterious and elusive. They also appeal to the narcissism of each sex: to a woman they are psychologically female, to a man they are male. Dandies fascinate and seduce in large numbers. Use the power of the Dandy to create an ambiguous, alluring presence that stirs repressed desires.

The Natural:
Childhood is the golden paradise we are always consciously or unconsciously trying to re-create. The Natural embodies the longed for qualities of childhood-- spontaneity, sincerity, unpretentiousness. In the presence of Naturals, we feel at ease, caught up in their playful spirit, transported back to that golden age. Naturals also make a virtue out of weakness, eliciting our sympathy for their trials, making us want to protect them and help them. As with a child, much of this is natural, but some of it is exaggerated, a conscious seductive maneuver.

The Charmer:
Charm is seduction without sex. Charmers are consummate manipulators, masking their cleverness by creating a mood of pleasure and comfort. Their method is simple: they deflect attention from themselves and focus it on their target. They understand your spirit, feel your pain, adapt to your mood. In the presence of a Charmer you feel better about yourself. Charmers do not argue or fight, complain, or pester-- what could be more seductive? By drawing your in with their indulgence they make you dependent on them, and their power grows.

The Charismatic:
Charisma is a presence that excites us. It comes from an inner quality-- self-confidence, sexual energy, sense of purpose, contentment-- that most people lack and want. This quality radiates outward, permeating the gestures of Charismatics, making them seem extraordinary and superior, and making us imagine there is more to them than meets the eye: they are gods, saints, stars. Charismatics can learn to heighten their charisma with a piercing gaze, fiery oratory, an air of mystery. They can seduce on a grand scale.

The Star:
Daily life is harsh, and most of us constantly seek escape from it in fantasies and dreams. Stars feed on this weakness; standing out from others through a distinctive and appealing style, they make us want to watch them. At the same time, they are vague and ethereal, keeping their distance, and letting us imagine more than is there. Their dreamlike quality works on our unconscious; we are not even aware how much we imitate them.
 

preilemus

Ashes
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
826
---
"XIII Death - A major transformation."

i can't help but wonder if this is what your username is based on
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
This experiment is amazing and I am glad that you exist. Also your your ideas of how language can't create an accurate map of reality are very enlightening. Theoretically there are infinite concepts; perhaps we tend to ignore the ones that can't be expressed in language, or we distort them by forcing them into language, thereby changing our perception of them.

I have also thought about the willful acquisition/destruction of personality traits, but not to the extent you have. In social situations I can become very stressed and awkward and thought of two ways of dealing with it. One: developing extroversion so I could easily handle social or potentially awkward situations, or Two: develop such a strong sense of identity that I could simply become indifferent to the stress of social situations or awkward tension. I have always glorified the types of people who can lose themselves in their intellect and simply have no stake in the process of inter-personal interaction. Unfortunately, I spend too much time analyzing and regretting how I behave in the aforementioned process and my social ineptitude is something that I find would be difficult to change.
I find that it is too difficult to escape my fundamental self, especially since I go to a very small high school where I've acted the same way around everyone for 4 years. I'm impressed that you've been able carry out this experiment as a high schooler consider some of the personalities you are adopting. I applaud your strength to persevere in alienating others and the loneliness.

Sometimes it dawns on me that we only have one life and that I have spent much of mine trapped inside of it rather than living it. What you are doing seems to be something that could get more out of life than most us could imagine. Our nature determines how we interact with our environment, which creates our experiences, which influence our perceptions, which determine how we see the world. But who is to say that we cannot destroy these perceptions, acquire new ones, and thereby expand our reality?

Also why do no longer feel attached to your genetic family? I understand if you don't care to say, but perhaps it is something I could relate to.

:) Thank you- it really does help me to hear this. I'm continuing no matter what, but empathy with this kind of experiment is rare. I also agree- life probably won't be very long (unless biotech advances rapidly), so why not live it as diversely and intensely as possible? Why give any justification other than that? I prefer intense suffering and discomfort accompanied by intense rewards and beauty to the meek, constant suffering of stasis.

Please bear in mind that I began experimentation when traveling the world, alone. I probably wouldn't have been able to bring myself to do this if I had been in high school, without the independence and willpower that traveling alone, at a young age, resulted in. Don't chastise yourself- you can play around with your personality all you want when you've moved away from your current environment. It won't be too late.

Regarding your comments about my family- they're asleep. It's almost as if they're half-conscious, unaware of the joylessness and ubiquity of their lives. They read newspapers, work jobs, have monotonous relationships... the are just normal people, in other words. The don't appreciate individuality, they don't appreciate radical intelligence, and they live through inherited worlds and opinions. I don't bear a grudge against them, because it may be that my experience of them led to my current interests and meta-identity. I see suffering them as a necessary price to pay for being who I am, and it is a fair price.

"XIII Death - A major transformation."

i can't help but wonder if this is what your username is based on
Haha, I wondered how long it would take for somebody to notice. Correct.

-------------------------

EDIT: given all the information I've posted... could anybody offer an opinion as to whether I seem more INTP, INTJ, or just too damn strange for the MBTI to accurately classify?
 

Halcyon

Member
Local time
Today 11:58 AM
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
36
---
Location
Elsewhere
you can play around with your personality all you want when you've moved away from your current environment.

Yes, that's why I can't wait to go to college and then study abroad. Also, I had forgotten something very relevant: I taught myself Japanese and Spanish. Through foreign language is the greatest way to create a new personality. Cognitively and linguistically, Spanish is not much different than English so the reality shift when I speak Spanish is not so vast. But Japanese is so completely different that I can create whatever personality I want when I speak it. The words are as light as feathers, as in their meaning carries so little weight. I could tell some one I barely know "I love you", "Please die", or "I like bananas" and it is all the same to me; I'm just playing. I think a large factor is the medium through which I most associate it with, which is anime, and anime characters are the farthest thing from real people. It is this feeling of liberation that had motivated me so much to continue studying the language.

Regarding your comments about my family- they're asleep. It's almost as if they're half-conscious, unaware of the joylessness and ubiquity of their lives. They read newspapers, work jobs, have monotonous relationships... the are just normal people, They don't appreciate individuality, they don't appreciate radical intelligence, and they live through inherited worlds and opinions. I don't bear a grudge against them

I know exactly what you mean and I almost expected that this would be your answer. I think it is more common among INTPs to be very self-aware, engage in metacognition, and question society or anything that we are expected to accept simply because it is there. The vast majority of people live, as you said, through inherited worlds and opinions, and are content with this, even if it is only because they don't know how not to be. I don't bear a grudge against these people; I just have no stake in their life. It does not make a difference if I am genetically tied to them.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
Yes, that's why I can't wait to go to college and then study abroad. Also, I had forgotten something very relevant: I taught myself Japanese and Spanish. Through foreign language is the greatest way to create a new personality. Cognitively and linguistically, Spanish is not much different than English so the reality shift when I speak Spanish is not so vast. But Japanese is so completely different that I can create whatever personality I want when I speak it. The words are as light as feathers, as in their meaning carries so little weight. I could tell some one I barely know "I love you", "Please die", or "I like bananas" and it is all the same to me; I'm just playing. I think a large factor is the medium through which I most associate it with, which is anime, and anime characters are the farthest thing from real people. It is this feeling of liberation that had motivated me so much to continue studying the language.
Brilliant- I did the same with Korean and Thai (but only at a basic, conversational level), and agree with all of your comments. The mental/conceptual flexibility which results from studying foreign languages extensively is also invaluable. This relates to my earlier comments about linguistic maps not being the same as the structural territory they represent- two different types of maps give more information than one. Mathematics and highly visual thought can act as, at least equally useful, non-linguistic maps.

I think that the disparity between the perceptual biases of a traveler and those of natives can also lead to an increase of freedom of identity. I'm not quite sure how to express this verbally, but when interacting with people from an entirely different culture (for me it was various East Asian cultures) it becomes apparent how important the implicit social meanings and stereotypes prevalent in one's own inherited, native culture are. This might seem like a conceptually obvious point, but experience of it can change one's attitude towards social roles.
It's impossible to fulfill the roles expected of you, given that stereotypes natives have of foreigners, however well-meaning, tend to be completely at odds with foreigners' sense of themselves. Thus the implicit cultural narrative through which social interaction is experienced in one's native culture ceases to apply, and the implicit narrative of the foreign culture cannot be adopted. Disidentification from any cultural story, and an ability to create one's own personal narrative and characters, consequently develops.
I'm not referring to the obvious freedom gained from being away from old associates. This is a specific understanding which develops as a results of experiencing the mismatch between your sense of self and the expectations of those around you.
 

Ermine

is watching and taking notes
Local time
Today 9:58 AM
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,871
---
Location
casually playing guitar in my mental arena
About time I replied. XIII, I find our ideas fascinating. Like Halcyon, I'd love to give this a try if I had the ability to travel on a regular basis. Even trying this during several day vacations would be interesting. Or acting, perhaps. I want to learn to act like any given personality, so as to maximise my potential and have my ideas be understood by all, for better or worse.

My family is beginning to wake up, and that's almost harder than them being asleep. They would semi-understand me, but this partial understanding would more than likely lead to more confusion for both of us. Therefore I keep quiet.
 

Sapphire Harp

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 9:58 AM
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
650
---
Hmm. I find it interesting. I'm not going to really bring out my thoughts on it right now - I figure you'll be keeping this thread alive for a while. I would appreciate it if you posted some more extensive notes and journals you've been creating through this. I imagine it might wind up creating quite a lot of paperwork - so maybe a specific forum section for this experiment would be appropriate if you're willing to share that much.

I do have a bit of tangental experience to similar processes. My college had an acting professor who was one of the pioneers in alba-emoting. It's something like an acting process - it's a technique of learning the physical characteristics of particular emotions and using them to launch the body into that emotion. They simplified it down to several basic emotions - joy, anger, fear, sadness, erotic love, and... another I forget.

The practical application was actors could quickly emulate the physical characteristics of emotions to rapidly adjust for the stage. The method involved similar exploration to the kind you're doing - I recall one friend telling me about a two hour screaming rage the professor took him into. He also said that one of the more interesting facets was that his mind was completely detached from the emotion the entire time has screaming and throwing things and such.

One byproduct was hyper-sensitivity to emotions. The process of learning the technique was divided into three stages - generally after the third stage learners became instantly aware of even slight shifts of emotion in people around them, and had to take some time to adjust to it. My professor in particular kept making mistakes about asking people about the slight emotional shifts they were having and accidently violating their privacy.

I note that the rest time between their stages was greater than yours, and their rest time was exponential - going from three months to one year as they went from one to two and from two to three.

Also, the learning process had some completely unpredictable results. Two of my friends at college - they were living in the same house and also both taking the class together. I do not know what set them off, but the two of them were together at home and became trapped in rapidly shifting emotive states for an hour and a half. Every few seconds they would instantly and dramatically shift from one of the six emotions to another. I should note that each of the six emotions were measured on a 1-10 scale for intensity. My friends were stuck in the higher intensities. Eventually the professor was contacted, brought to their home, asserted control over their shifting emotions, directing them for a bit, and then bringing them back to neutral. At that point it was under their own control again.

It was the only incident I heard about in my group at college, but I do not think it was the only such occurrence. The extended rest periods were settled upon after several years, maybe a decade of experimenting by the acting professionals who developed it.

I bring this up because it suggests more downtime and control may be suggestible for you. Perhaps a friend with an awareness of the experiment and a control phrase to terminate it. Of course, I see a strong theme of self-destructiveness in your posts - so this advice may be something you wish to disregard for that reason.
 

XIII

Banned
Local time
Today 4:58 PM
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
356
---
Bear in mind that I've presented as simplified a version of my experiment as possible, and have omitted the mention of most of the preparatory work I have done to minimise damaging results. I meditate extensively in order to ground the volatile perceptions and experiences which result from my experimentation, and do regular psychophysical therapy (Reichian Tension Reduction- self-admisitered as directed by Jack Willis) in order to maximise the benefits. There are checks and balances in place to ensure maximum possible benefit and minimal possible damage.

I keep a detailed dairy in order to track my progress, and I alter or slow my course if it becomes apparent that I'm causing unwanted damage. I also have regular discussions with people who have undertaken similar (but different) endeavors, and slow down or postpone experimentation if they advise me to. If anybody feels that they have expertise or extensive experience relevant to my 22-cycle experiment (and planned future experiments), I may consider sending them the emulation reports as I write them.
I considered offering to send them to those who sincerely wish to experiment (to whatever extent suits them), but it would probably be more limiting than beneficial. Much of the benefit of my experiment stems from the resourcefulness and independence it requires the development of. I started with a basic idea: 22 cards, 2 weeks per card, become the card. I recommend that all other experimenters do the same. Start from a simple, basic structure and work out from it.

Sapphire Harp, the emotional volatility that you describe is familiar. I experience this volatility both emotionally and on the level of my entire identity and behavioral patterning. The slightest feeling, idea, or image will consume me and direct the entirety of my perception and action. This is rare, provided I give myself enough time to rest and integrate the results of individual emulations. I am developing the ability to coordinate and harmonise these volatile states when they do occur- without the help of professors.

I also alter my physical posture and sensory experience to refelect the emulated personality. I will soon be studying the Feldenkrais body-awareness method in order to enhance this process and my sensitivity to it. Each personality is *felt in the body*, not merely conceptualised and adhered to.

I won't be sharing extensive notes publicly because I do not want that much information about my life to be readily accessible online. Besides, it wouldn't be particularly useful to anybody but myself. Enough information has been presented for others to experiment with this themselves, if they wish.
 

merzbau

Active Member
Local time
Tomorrow 3:58 AM
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
239
---
what mask are you wearing now..?
when you have finished, and all the masks lie discarded on the floor, what then?
will you sift through them to find the best one, take pieces of each?
and will you keep that mask for the rest of your life?

there's nothing radically intelligent about mimicry - humans are mimic machines; we all emulate our idols.

personality is not fixed - it's a base template, yes, but it evolves like our bodies over time.
there is no apex of personality - no summit to reach. it's a continual progression from birth to death.

the problem with having "no morality or fixed value-system" is evident.. what's to stop you from breaking the law?
could you use antinomianism as a defense in court?
read "the gates of janus" by ian brady - there is one example of moral relativism taken to the extreme.
 

Anticitizen

Member
Local time
Today 10:58 AM
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
57
---
Personality Destruction


2. Willed identity change. I have constructed a 44-week long experiment designed to undermine fixed identity, exercise latent aspects of my potential character, and destroy my old, singular personality. The experiment is divided into 22 2-week cycle. During the first week, I learn everything possible about a mythological or archetypal figure. I immerse myself in its mythology.
During the second week, I ''become'' the figure. I strive to act as that figure would during every moment of every day. How I act, communicate, dress, think, feel and spend my time is all determined by the paticular mythological or archetpyal character which I am emulating.

"We are what we pretend to be."

I admire what you're attempting to do. I don't think the effects can last, though.
 

Anticitizen

Member
Local time
Today 10:58 AM
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
57
---
It seems that a more effective strategy to take than emulating fictional mythological characters - given your goal - would be to find prime examples of each of the 16 psychological types and emulate them.
 
Top Bottom