Persona

[Zero]

I swear I've posted about this topic before, but I'm posting it again. I was searching ENFJs and found on the INTJ forum a comment from an INTP. http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276
Hdier said that they project a stoic image so people won't bother him. I project a nice image so people won't bother me and I won't stand out as much.

I think there's a misconception about the 'nice' image. Even a year to two years ago I expected that people had expectation as high as mine. (My expectations are so high not even God qualifies.) So I would act 'nice' because I assumed people wanted me to follow through when I said I would do something. I'm also not very good at being rude, because I was taught to be polite. So I get this 'nice' imagine, which I hate, because it's like being a I*F* doormat.

Discuss, persona.
Do you project an image to keep people from bothering you.
What is that image and does it work for you?

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I walk with my head down and a look on my face that can be mistaken for anger or general meaness. Usually it's just deep thought. If I let that expression fade away, I find I am approached more often. It just so happens that the head down and scowling look is my default setting. I don't deliberately do it but I'm fine with the fact that I do.

 

[Melkor]

I have to agree with you on this zero.

I'm much the same.

I feel as if, in the presence of so many happy fufilled people, that I *MUST* SMILE and come across as happy and confident, and often I would do the same with friends

Hell, Im guarded with just about anyone.

But most of my close friends seem to know a Fair bit about my true mentality, don't you fnd that yourself?


Personally I think this merely highlights the INTP personality rather than overiding it.

If you watch a real I*F* as you put it, you'll notice differences in their behaviour.

I know for a fact that INTP's doing the persona, only smile when the know you're looking, but the f's tend to smile to themselves regardless.


Of course, there are other ways of seeing it,perhaps it's peer pressure?

Just the mass of decent folk out there converging on us and forcing us into this twisted-broken-smiley-bleeding-happy chappy I'm quite-okay-and-grand-hows -you-son-law-abiding-center-parted-I-give-a-damn-or-three-persona.

But don't give up hope, I rarely know what I'm talking about, or provide anything other than amusement.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

yeah, people say i look miserable. "what's wrong?" they say - nothing! i also keep my head down to avoid looking at people. because as soon as i lift my head there will be a girl in front with my eyeline on her cleavage by accident and she will glare at me, i wasn't staring, i was observing my shoes but i look up MOMENTARILY and there ' they' are

and also going up stairs a couple of steps down from someone, if you look straight you are staring at their ass so you have to look around everywhere but the ass like an idiot, but that is the way things are

 

[Beat Mango]

I used to have a persona based on being a muso/guitarist. It helped me feel more cool, gain acceptance etc, as personas are supposed to do. I feel it's time to move on though, for various reasons, so I'm slowly beginning a shift towards the persona of erudite philosopher. It suits me more at this stage of my life.

 

[Adamastor]

Hmm... I'm not sure if this is the same thing but I am not good with feeling, especially expressing feelings, so I "taught" myself when feign an expression to not be seen as someone without feelings.

No, this isn't effective most of the time. Apparently I fake a laugh or smile a lot so people won't bother me, but the people who know me most know that I am faking and they said that my fake smile is very artificial and that I should improve it (something about the eyes being the same or something).

 

[Beat Mango]

^ I am finding it harder and harder to fake smile or laugh, in part because I'm finding less and less things worth smiling or laughing about.

 

[didyouknow]

My persona is also one of niceness. Though I do have to work on it seeming more genuine as I have been told I often seem bored by their conversation. One of my best friends recently told me that the only thing he doesn't like about me is that I "always seem to be trying to be someone I'm not".

Some people lost their respect for me when I tried to be more like me. So, meh. It's easier this way. I only let people know me when I trust them. That can take years.

 

[Jaico]

I've never really thought about this - it's sort of interesting. When I walk down the street, I look up to the skies, and just think to myself...usually I find something amusing, so I end up smiling/laughing. If I don't want people to talk to me, I'll look lost in thought, as if pondering some sort of problem in my mind (which is what I do, anyways). That, or I'll break out a book...

 

[Adamastor]

When I walk down the street, I look up to the skies, and just think to myself...usually I find something amusing, so I end up smiling/laughing.

Creeeeepy o.o

Just kidding. I too look up to the skies and I think I do this because I am bored or looking for something to think about, but in my case looking to the sky and the surrounding usually wake depressing thoughts (maybe because I find the city environment disturbing...)

 

[Ermine]

I definitely do project an image. For example, when I'm just walking around, not talking to anyone, I deliberately have to keep a smile on my face so people don't ask what's wrong. I also look a little stern when I'm in deep thought. It's very annoying for people to interrupt me and ask me if I'm OK. I also make people less concerned about me by looking around when I don't want to talk to people rather than having my head down.

I also have a problem with balancing the "nice" image with the more aggressive/blunt me. People either call me, or treat me like, a pushover when I'm acting nice, or are taken aback when I exhibit my real personality.

i also keep my head down to avoid looking at people. because as soon as i lift my head there will be a girl in front with my eyeline on her cleavage by accident and she will glare at me, i wasn't staring, i was observing my shoes but i look up MOMENTARILY and there ' they' are

Funny thing is that it's just as much her fault as it is supposedly yours. I find it so annoying how girls walk around in low cut shirts and tiny mini-skirts and don't expect to have people stare at them. Either they're asking for it or they aren't.

/derail

 

[Zero]

Melkor,
It's apparently obvious when I don't smile. I use to get in trouble for pouting when I wasn't making an expression and I finally told my mother that "This is my face. I'm not making an expression. This is just my face!" That's what you get with an ESTP. They're feeling and imagination oblivious, but that E tells then when you don't have that happy face on...

"But most of my close friends seem to know a Fair bit about my true mentality, don't you find that yourself?"

I don't have any friends at my current location. I guess I had some last semester (they only knew me for a semester, but yes, I guess they kind of got me). This semester I'm a "thirdparty friend". None of those friends are close. They know me as "so and so's . . . whatever". I don't have a name to these people, they ask, "Where is your ____?" It's not "Where is Zero?".

didyouknow,
I also get bored with conversations, but I smile and try to be polite. A few people have taken that to mean interest. I think they were INTJs, for some reason I attract really nerdy people. It's really not a good thing. The experience seems traumatic for them. . .

Jaico,
Geez uuus... I would probably not watch the sky when I walked. I would definitely run into something or someone. My motor skills aren't the best and the added metaphysics of being an N type doesn't help. I always feel kind of ...awareness groggy...

Ermine,
I don't know if my brother is blind or something, but when I'm concentrating in the middle of working he starts asking question, on rapid fire. A few times I've asked him what he wanted and he had a fit. The last time I told him to just stop and he took that better.

I also find it irritating that some women can't find proper clothing. I stare right at them. They feel awkward, but I'm female, what are they going to do? I dress fairly conservative. If I could I would wear a full on body suit. I do have the one piece sorts (coveralls?), but they don't have high necks or long sleeves. I want a glossy white one and a BMW 2015 concept car. ("I'm from the future and . . . I am the antichrist")

Sometimes I stare at people as my way of telling them things or I point at something. Look at something. Probably more than my communication is body language.

I always complain about my sense of humour, because people think their jokes go over my head. The jokes are dumb and raunchy (they go under my chair). It's like all the one million other dumbshit jokes about body functions and "private" parts. I do expect people to be mature though, especially when I'm talking to staff of a bookstore. It just catches you off guard when you suddenly get an off colored joke from a cashiers. Some people have a sense of humour that's blunt, awkward and unstable. You wish they hadn't tried, because it was kind of disturbing...

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I don't really do this fully consciously but I seem to give off the persona that I will fucking snap if you look at me the wrong way/say the wrong thing to me. Sometimes this may be true Most of the time I don't mind as I don't like to be bothered by a lot of people but it sucks when I want to make new friends or meet girls. I scare them all away I am not a very emotionally expressive person, even when I try to be.

 

[Zero]

People only get that impression from me when they get close enough. Then I scare people, apparently. I look like I'm going to snap when people get into my personal space and might attempt to touch me.

You know what I've read about meeting girls? That the girls initiate the contact by throwing "looks". It takes about three tries on the female's part for the male to realise it. If he gets it, it's an invite to approach. If you want to talk to a girl you should glance at her, to try to get her attention, if she reacts poorly then don't approach.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I've done that with girls I've gotten "the look" from before, must have been bad timing on my part or I must have come across as something undesirable to them. I rarely can act on a feeling I get immediately I think is the major problem. I have to sort through it which can sometimes take me days before I get to a point of confidence in myself. Just another personal problem. Females typically seem to want the feeling that is here and now and not later when I am able to feel comfortable with myself.

 

[Trebuchet]

Zero, I used to get in trouble for pouting, too, and it drove me crazy. I had fights with my mom (INFP). But it turned out okay because my default/neutral face got retrained to something that doesn't look like pouting. At 40, I am glad, really. I have an INTJ friend who always looks a bit unhappy, and even I ask him if is okay. Probably I drive him up the wall.

I have several personae, which I use much of the time. For teaching, I have a persona that just takes over, an outgoing, enthusiastic person who believes wholeheartedly in her students, and loves being in front of them. It is almost like letting another person take over, and it can be fun. But I am conscious of the fact that they are not getting to know the real me, even if they think they are. It isn't insincere, exactly, just more surface than depth. Probably I do a fair impression of an ESTP.

I also have a persona that I don't like, which happens whenever I am around my fellow moms in the moms club. There isn't an NT among them, just a bunch of ESFJs, and they all think I am weird. They don't understand my vocabulary, or share my interests, or care if a sentence is logical. Since I get tired of getting stared at like an alien or something, I have a persona that is a lot stupider than I am. I use a 4th grade vocabulary, talk about inane things, and keep my mouth shut a lot. I always feel slightly dirty when I do this. This persona is probably a crummy imitation of an ISFJ. It works, though. They all seem to like it much better than the few times I tried being the real me.

For business purposes, I use the ESTP persona from teaching, if I am in a good mood, or an ESTJ persona if I am angry and want them to suffer. None of these personae let people get close to me.

With my INTJ friends, I am very much myself, and trust them completely. I can't fool my husband anyway. Even with them, though, I mask my mood a bit, and show them a face that is a shade more interested and upbeat than my real mood. That is because I love them, and treasure them, and they deserve my best efforts in all interactions to be as good-natured as it is in me to be.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

It must be nice to be able to create a "mask" for yourself. Mine doesn't come off / I have no mask. I am myself all the time. The closest thing I have to a mask is getting completely stoned or piss drunk but I can't function in public like that.

 

[Dormouse]

Hmm, the persona I project is generally the hopeless case, always confused, ditzy, shy girl. This is, I suppose, because I always look lost, though I'm usually just thinking. People who don't know me ignore me and those who do gave up on me long ago. It's really quite convenient. I've also made an effort to lower people's expectations of me . . .
Not that I don't have high hopes, but my idea of success doesn't correspond with everybody else's.
Oh, and I do project a certain niceness, as in I get along with everyone and for some reason people trust me . . .

 

[Ermine]

If I could I would wear a full on body suit. I do have the one piece sorts (coveralls?), but they don't have high necks or long sleeves. I want a glossy white one and a BMW 2015 concept car. ("I'm from the future and . . . I am the antichrist")

That would be amazing! I'd have some sharp sunglasses with it too.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

If we're talking about What ifs or If I coulds......

I would go with a military style cut. Definitely a James Bond type of car, silver. BMW convertible seems like a good choice. Nice shades, high class style and nice suits. Sophisticated and smooth. High Class all the way, live high, stay high

 

[Trebuchet]

It must be nice to be able to create a "mask" for yourself. Mine doesn't come off / I have no mask. I am myself all the time. The closest thing I have to a mask is getting completely stoned or piss drunk but I can't function in public like that.

It certainly has its advantages, but in turn I think it would be nice to be as authentic as you. I feel trapped by the masks, even though they are good tools.

If you genuinely wish to develop some, though, try role playing games (in person, like D&D, Traveler, etc.). They made it easier for me to switch personae at will. And it is fun to be someone else once in a while, even if it isn't fun to hide who you are in real life.

I really hear you about the sense of humor. My last supervisor said I didn't have one because I didn't like being put down or listening to fart jokes. I was so insulted. Something has to be funny to make me laugh. Though back in junior high, I did learn to fake an amazing, screechy, girly giggle, which I simply produced whenever anyone else did. Another mask that I didn't really want to wear.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I have thought about doing some light "dice living" but every time I try I just can't follow what the dice tells me to do and I wind up doing what I really wanted to do in the first place.

 

[echoplex]

Do you project an image to keep people from bothering you.
What is that image and does it work for you?

I usually try to appear busy, because otherwise it's likely that someone will tell me I look mad or sad or something I'm apparently not aware of. Or worse, they'll assume I need cheering up and go into super ultra nice mode. (not regular nice, more like trying-too-hard nice)

I think the problem is a general lack of awareness of how others perceive me. I don't feel that I have any true identity, but I know that others will create one for me and assume it's an accurate one. I figure that if they think I'm busy I won't have to endure whatever assumption they've made. (although occasionally it's nice to have others humor me on such...)

And what sucks is...they actually think I'm a nice guy or something. Suckers...

 

[Zero]

Invoke,
Well, all I really understand about courtship and relationships is what I've read in books. I finished that book by Pease not long ago. Can't remember what it was called... Definitive book of Bodylanguage?

It must be nice to live just as yourself. Apparently, I'm not well liked just 'as is'.

Trebuchet,
It seems like persona are a needed adaptation. How we buffer interaction. It's somewhat disappointing to me that introverted personalities are not well accepted in the USA. Perhaps that's why I'm drawn to Japanese culture.

Anyway, that flexibility is probably a beneficial quality. It seems unfair and tiresome all the same.

Humour is a pain in the butt. Why can't people have a more... strange sense of humour? Not dark, just bizarre. The brain processes fright and hilarity the same- as shock.

Ermine,
Oh yes, need the sunglasses. Or steampunk goggles. Steampunk should be more popular... as a fashion.