People take MBTI way too seriously

[Sunyata]

Consciousness is far too loose and malleable to be labeled in such rigid ways.

For instance, how would an born extrovert answer MBTI questions if he was bullied and ostracized as a kid, resulting in the repression of his extroverted nature and making him a shy, depressed, and antisocial person? There are countless other examples, too. That isn't to say that MB doesn't hold some water, but just that it doesn't even close to capture the actual complexity of the human mind and all of the possible places it can draw its inspiration or motivation from.

It just seems to me like a lot of you guys are maybe socially awkward, anti-social people so you use the whole "intp" thing to find some type of closure on the manner. Then you actually parody the INTP factor of yourselves on the boards, and then pass it off like its genuine, probably making yourselves even more neurotic.

I'm just saying, how about thinking "You know, I am who I am who I am, my personality is my personality," and not have to label yourself (or anything) - that will only restrict you. Labels only restrict and confine possibilities. And I think people like us, it is our habit to need to label everything that is the cause of most of our problems. But real reality isn't labeled or picked apart, but just ridden like the flowing wave of mind it is.

BTW, I think if anything I'd be an ENTP with some major INTP traits that came about through depression and hard life circumstances like getting my leg sawed off (true story). And if I got over the enormous load of mental anxiety resting upon me, I'm sure these traits would completely reorganize themselves in some ways.

And I wrote this in about 50 seconds so I apologize for the poor structure... lol

 

[snafupants]

What would be your impetus for making this thread? Do you believe everyone will repudiate their time and past posts based on a few lightweight paragraphs?

 

[Sunyata]

What would be your impetus for making this thread? Do you believe everyone will repudiate their time and past posts based on a few lightweight paragraphs?

Buzz Killington is actually my favorite character on Family Guy.

But what buzz exactly am I killing?

I am 25 now and am getting out of a lot of the type of thinking I've seen on this forum. My life is improving dramatically. And it's mostly because people got in my face.

Anyway thats why.

 

[Cegorach]

There are a few aspects your post is incorrect in:


First is the mention of MBTI, which few here take seriously and many even outright shun, which while a good practice, (it being a mere perversion of fundamental concepts in Jungian typology) I hardly have reason to believe that they truly understand the basis of why they have discarded it beyond somebody with more expertise asserting such upon them.

Second is the usage of introversion and extroversion.
These terms that you're using have nothing to do with Jungian typology; Jung himself was merely apt at obfuscating his definitions and putting in place terms that encapsulated a similar general idea.

Jung's terms are Introverted and Extraverted (which I choose to capitalize so as to avoid confusion) meaning 'Dominantly Internally Oriented' and 'Dominantly Externally Oriented' respectively.

Jung's usage of them only applied to functions within an individual of which each has two Introverted and two Extraverted; at the time this theory was disfigured by Katherine Briggs and Isabel Myers and formed into the type codes we know today they misunderstood the concept and applied it to the entire individual as the more well known terms introversion and extroversion.


If we're going to continue in using the type codes laid out in MBTI as are, then we're going to need to massively reconfigure how we explain them and integrate only this one aspect of MBTI while holding back the tidal wave of misinformation behind it.

In essence it needs to be understood that Extraversion in terms of MBTI type code denotes that your Dominant function is 'Extraverted' (Ne, Se, Te, Fe) and almost all else implied beyond that is in the realm of probability.

According to much theory, and most reasoning, your natural orientation is genetically imbued and impossible to reorient, it being merely how your mind works.

----------------------------

That aside, I would estimate anywhere from 25 to 75 percent of the active forum members seem to be mistyped and do use various dichotomies as an excuse to remain with what they've become most comfortable, denying growth.

That simply stems from a lack of understanding and the misconceptions various theories have spread or misinterpreted.


Every single one of the four dichotomies set up by MBTI are flawed in their assumptions, as well as poorly named, but diving into those would betray the purpose of the thread and reserve more of my time than I'm willing to spend at this moment.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I wasn't bullied or ostracized into a recluse. It just developed over the course of time. I was actually the class clown until about 11th grade high school. Though, even in middle school during P.E. I would walk very slowly around the grass field and just observe everything happening, sometimes just sitting down with close friends and philosophizing about life. Even back then I noticed a difference in my interaction between my close friends and other people whom I conversed with. I had no notion of a "fake friend", but it seemed only certain people could see on my level.

I agree it's certain events that cause some people to unnoticeably become antisocial, but imo people are destined to be a certain way, no matter what you do your destiny will alter your path so that you always end up back on the same road. I had a somewhat good social life up until 9th grade and maybe even 11th grade, but I've also had reclusive and introspective tendencies ever since elementary school.

There's nothing wrong with taking MBTI seriously, but the problem arises when it is not used to help foster strengths and to develop weak areas.

 

[snafupants]

That ending seemed mangled eyeseecold. I would say the issue arises when strengths are used as a crutch or stalling tactic to getting into the nitty-gritty of your weaknesses. Treading water instead of swimming.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

That's another way of looking at it, eventually everyone will have to face their weakness in one situation or another. Though, I think only a few types would need chronic use of the inferior to prosper.

 

[archimonde]

For instance, how would an born extrovert answer MBTI questions if he was bullied and ostracized as a kid, resulting in the repression of his extroverted nature and making him a shy, depressed, and antisocial person?

For me, I believe that the traits are more nurture than nature. Sure, some people have brains that are hardwired differently than others. But the environment that you grow up in has greater influence than nature (unless, say you were born differently, i.e. disfigured). If a person who used to be an extrovert, through some natural or unnatural means, became introverted, then he or she is now an introverted person. Of course, its not like a person can switch from an extrovert to introvert like they flick a switch. It would have to be either a life changing experience (i.e. traumatic) or something very continual (like bullying). I don't think MBTI is based on genetic traits, but rather social influence on a person, and can change over time.

If you think about it, 16 different type is not a small number. In fact, if you divide the number evenly among the population, it would only be 6.25% per group. Besides, I think INTP's are probably the only people who would not want to be anything but INTP's (except for those who are really really lonely).

 

[Yasmin]

First, I think you have a basic misunderstanding of the theory. The point of being an INTP isn't that you are an introvert, intuitive, thinking and perceiving. By themselves, each of those things mean nothing. Just as my being female, 15, and from Texas, are also meaningless statements.

What makes them meaningful is how they interact, i.e., the cognitive processes. I've actually given considerable thought to the possibility that I am an extrovert with social anxiety, but have since come to the conclusion that I am not. Regardless, at the time in which I was doubting myself, I was not considering am I an introvert/extrovert? What I was considering, is whether my dominant process is introverted thinking or extroverted intuition (I was considering ENTP).

I'm just saying, how about thinking "You know, I am who I am who I am, my personality is my personality," and not have to label yourself (or anything) - that will only restrict you. Labels only restrict and confine possibilities. And I think people like us, it is our habit to need to label everything that is the cause of most of our problems. But real reality isn't labeled or picked apart, but just ridden like the flowing wave of mind it is.

I've never quite understood those people that insist that labels are the worst things in the world. Labels are words. Words have no value that man hasn't assigned to them. If I call a desk an elephant, it's still a desk. If I call myself an INTP, or just me, I am still an INTP (and also me).

It's a tad naive to suggest that labels confine possibilities. Just like MBTI is about the consequences of the four preferences interacting with one another. I, as a human being, am an interactions of millions of things. If the only thing I ever used to describe myself was INTP, I might agree in that my label would be confining.

I think a lot of people are afraid of labeling or categorizing themselves or others because they believe it robs them of their individuality. But it really needs to be understand that no one will ever have a trait, or characteristic, that has never been seen before. If I think of three things about me, I might have one in common with that guy, and one in common with that guy, and one in common with that guy. That doesn't mean I lack individuality. None of those guys have the combination of those things that I have.

It is okay to label and categorize, but it's clearly a practice that should be limited. Using a single word of phrase to describe myself would increase the chances of me being identical to someone else. If I use a thousand words, the chances are smaller.

INTP, and all other MBTI types, or other personality theories, are not an encompassing description that applies to every aspect of personality. Just one.

 

[snafupants]

For me, I believe that the traits are more nurture than nature. Sure, some people have brains that are hardwired differently than others. But the environment that you grow up in has greater influence than nature (unless, say you were born differently, i.e. disfigured). If a person who used to be an extrovert, through some natural or unnatural means, became introverted, then he or she is now an introverted person. Of course, its not like a person can switch from an extrovert to introvert like they flick a switch. It would have to be either a life changing experience (i.e. traumatic) or something very continual (like bullying). I don't think MBTI is based on genetic traits, but rather social influence on a person, and can change over time.

If you think about it, 16 different type is not a small number. In fact, if you divide the number evenly among the population, it would only be 6.25% per group. Besides, I think INTP's are probably the only people who would not want to be anything but INTP's (except for those who are really really lonely).

Twin studies seem to sing a different tune than the one being pumped out of your speakers. Specifically, your notion of nurture overpowering nature to form static personality traits.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

Consciousness is far too loose and malleable to be labeled in such rigid ways.

For instance, how would an born extrovert answer MBTI questions if he was bullied and ostracized as a kid, resulting in the repression of his extroverted nature and making him a shy, depressed, and antisocial person? There are countless other examples, too. That isn't to say that MB doesn't hold some water, but just that it doesn't even close to capture the actual complexity of the human mind and all of the possible places it can draw its inspiration or motivation from.

It just seems to me like a lot of you guys are maybe socially awkward, anti-social people so you use the whole "intp" thing to find some type of closure on the manner. Then you actually parody the INTP factor of yourselves on the boards, and then pass it off like its genuine, probably making yourselves even more neurotic.

I'm just saying, how about thinking "You know, I am who I am who I am, my personality is my personality," and not have to label yourself (or anything) - that will only restrict you. Labels only restrict and confine possibilities. And I think people like us, it is our habit to need to label everything that is the cause of most of our problems. But real reality isn't labeled or picked apart, but just ridden like the flowing wave of mind it is.

BTW, I think if anything I'd be an ENTP with some major INTP traits that came about through depression and hard life circumstances like getting my leg sawed off (true story). And if I got over the enormous load of mental anxiety resting upon me, I'm sure these traits would completely reorganize themselves in some ways.

And I wrote this in about 50 seconds so I apologize for the poor structure... lol

Holy shit.. this directly connects with me. I was born an extravert. no doubt about it. Im still an extravert on the inside, but through "nuture" and everything ive developed a bilogical mental conditioned known as selective mutism, a form of social anxiety disorder, which makes me an introvert. I wasnt bullied or anything, but my parents wanted me to be perfect, and pushed me way too hard in sports, and told me to be the best at literally everything, when i didint really care. They sent me to baseball camps and are now hoping that i get drafted to the MLB in college baseball. I dont wana play college baseball, but my parents are making me, and just thinking about it really pisses me off. Its the one topic that can actually make me feel angry, which is hard for most intps. But nobody is born with their personality, its how society effects us and how we react to it which creates personality.
Your right about the label thing. People will discover that they are a certain personality, and label themselves that, and unconsciously try to be more like that chosen personality. You have to have an open and unbiased mind. Everybody is completely unique in their own way. As a kid less than 10 years ago, i was a leader and always helped the underdogs and protected people. Now im completely different. I used to like go on the team that had less ability because i knew i could help them, or id defend less fortunate kids.. Im a completely different person now. I always was a deep thinker, and i used to have confidence and everything. Then i got to highschool and my parents started their bullshit and criticized me for not being social, so i belived that i was a social reject and now im and introverted social failure.
It may sound cheesy but belief is really an incredibly powerful thing, and if you belive that you will act in a certain way then you will act that way. So if you belive your a certain personality you become that personality.

 

[snafupants]

DS - "But nobody is born with their personality, its how society effects us and how we react to it which creates personality." Where are you people getting this information, that is not true at all. Both genetics and environment impact any organism, rats, cats, hippos, humans.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

DS - "But nobody is born with their personality, its how society effects us and how we react to it which creates personality." Where are you people getting this information, that is not true at all. Both genetics and environment impact any organism, rats, cats, hippos, humans.

Im not saying that genetics have nothing to do with it, but society plays the main role. Like if you are born with some kind of physical disorder, its society that could make fun of you, which could make you more introverted because you dont want to go anywhere in fear of rejection. But genetics dont decide wether your a thinker, socially anxous,or outgoing..When people say "your just like your father" its not genetics, but its how you were raised.

 

[echoplex]

Labels don't have to restrict. What matters is that said labels are being used in a way that is responsive (as reasonably possible) to our scientific understanding of the mind. For instance, using the label 'INTP' to mean 'definitely logical, shy, withdrawn, awkward, etc.' -- all things you could easily find in a generic description of the type -- would be a severely restrictive way of using that label, since after all we are dealing with human beings who are more flexible than that. However, these labels are still useful so long as they are able to approximate real differences in people's minds. Or, they may be better replaced with a more intuitive system altogether, though likely maintaining a similar framework (how we perceive, make decisions, etc.).

Are you saying humanity should just give up on personality typing systems altogether simply because such efforts have been flawed?

 

[Sparrow]

Yeah, people do take this crap seriously.

I reformatted my worldview to incorporate MBTI or typology, whatever into this like a year ago. It's a disaster. I never needed MBTI to understand people. I never needed it to talk to people. I never needed it. It's useless. Treat people like people.

Anyways, much has changed for me in the past few months or so...typing people is useless. It does more harm than good. Try to understand YOURSELF first.

 

[Chimera]

I'm just saying, how about thinking "You know, I am who I am who I am, my personality is my personality," and not have to label yourself (or anything) - that will only restrict you. Labels only restrict and confine possibilities.

Labels can restrict and confine possibilities, yes, but they can also lead into a new breadth of understanding, depending on how they are perceived. Labels are names for describing things, no? Calling yourself a girl (generally!) means you have biologically female parts, not necessarily that you like cooking and cleaning and wearing dresses. Calling yourself INTP is claiming that your cognitive functions cooperate a certain way. Well, where's the harm in that? Now, if you say "I am and INTP, therefore I must act THIS way", then there's a problem. But the name, the label itself? It's as superficial as all the other charming stereotypes in the world.
​

And I think people like us, it is our habit to need to label everything that is the cause of most of our problems. But real reality isn't labeled or picked apart, but just ridden like the flowing wave of mind it is.

Applying labels and picking reality apart is how we understand our world.
​

_____________________________________
​

I never needed MBTI to understand people. I never needed it to talk to people. I never needed it. It's useless.

Just because you couldn't bend it to do your social work for you doesn't make it useless. Although if you have a better way of understanding people, more power to you.
​

Treat people like people.

But I prefer to treat people like vaguely intriguing necessities. :c
And given how many closet misanthropes live on these forums, treating people like people might mean something completely different and probably violent...

Anyways, much has changed for me in the past few months or so...typing people is useless. It does more harm than good.

So, having a framework in place to understand an individual's behavior is useless. I see.
I'm not saying I completely follow Jungian typing; in fact, over the past few years it's receded into an afterthought when I'm dealing with people. Oftentimes I don't even consider it; I haven't put that much time into trying to understand all the nuances of the functions and how they fit together. But it doesn't make sense to shun something and name it "useless" just because it didn't work out for you. (In terms of the theory being useless for everyone else--if it's useless to you just because you don't understand how to use it, then of course that's different.)
There are people on this very forum who have a delightful grasp of the Jungian theory, and they've used it to their advantage in understanding people. It's not just for slapping a 4 letter label on someone and then looking up that type on mypersonality.com whenever they do something odd.

Try to understand YOURSELF first.

I'm not nearly as generous when I'm dealing with understanding myself.
​

​

 

[DesertSmeagle]

You should see some of the shit on youtube haha. These people are saying things about personality that make it seem like some kind of enchanted math equation, and then they start psycho analzying themselves and people with personality types. Its really not set in stone like people want it to be. Everyone has every trait of every persoanlity type, is just a matter of how developed it is..Everyone here is an intp, but all of us are completely different.

 

[Riiscup]

All I know is, when I read an INTP profile -it was me. The good and the bad. The things I don't like, I try to change. Things I didn't understand about me, or even consciously realized about me was put into words by a stranger so I found some reliablility to the MBTI. In know way is this INTP stuff the end all, be all of me. And yes nurture plays a huge role in who we become. As children we can't really help our environment, but as adults we can choose our environment and thus choose who and how we will be to some extent.

 

[Anthile]

No, you see, the problem is that people don't take it seriously enough.

I'm not nearly as generous when I'm dealing with understanding myself.
​

There there *pats head*

 

[Fukyo]

Yeah, people do take this crap seriously.

I reformatted my worldview to incorporate MBTI or typology, whatever into this like a year ago. It's a disaster. I never needed MBTI to understand people. I never needed it to talk to people. I never needed it. It's useless. Treat people like people.

Anyways, much has changed for me in the past few months or so...typing people is useless. It does more harm than good. Try to understand YOURSELF first.

Stop being butthurt over being typed ISFJ.

Incorporating something you (still) know nothing about in your worldview is foolish.

You can't say it does more harm, just because you had a bad experience due to your insufficient understanding.

 

[Chimera]

There there *pats head*

How am I supposed to keep my vaguely benign, detached guise on this forum with people patting me on the head like I'm...I'm...recognized or something?
​