Old souls?

[manger]

Not sure if this is the appropriate part of the forum for this, I found something while browsing the other day and felt that it really resonated with me. I am curious to see if this is somehow linked to the INTP personality. For this purpose I ask you to set aside the highly questionable method by which this information was procured ("channeling"), and just see if you find that these traits apply to you. Before you attack me on this, let me say that I do not believe that anyone can legitimately channel a spirit.

According to "Michael" we are all on some spiritual journey during which people are continually reincarnated until they have finished learning the lessons that life has to offer. After that, all souls return to the soul plane, where one essentially feels that he has just woken up from a dream, and goes on to merrily continue doing whatever soul-y things that souls do. Old souls are in some of their last incarnations on Earth and have a number of identifiable traits, including -

being quieter and less talkative than most peers
being mellow, laid back
having a lack of motivation
easy to get along with
feeling world-weary
"inherently ethical" behavior - don't need to be taught right and wrong
try to stay out of conflicts, maintain neutral stance
having an easier time than others seeing the big picture
emotionally stable, not prone to getting emotionally worked up about things of little importance
feelings of not fitting in (this is apparently due to being an old soul in a predominantly young soul culture)
difficult romantic life
more likely to be androgynous, bisexual, homosexual, whatever..
tend to be less concerned with outward appearance

The whole description is located here:
http://www.michaelteachings.com/old_soul.html
a general overview of the rest of the soul ages with additional info is here:
http://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_ages.html

Give it a read and post about your thoughts on it.

Since finding out about this I have been feeling unusually high spirited. On the way to work the other day, I was seated next to two girls who were engaged in a very animated conversation about handbags. Normally I would have been thinking, "these girls are dumb," but instead I smiled and considered that they might eventually come around.

A similarity I just noticed is that the percentage of INTP personalities and the number of latest stage old souls is the same- about 1%.

 

[Linsejko]

It appears that most pseudo-spiritual stuff (horoscopes are the most prominent other example) that describe types of people are actually describing personality types. The INTP is a very clearly defined one, and often you will see an equivalent in that kind of literature.

The stat thing is interesting, but somehow I doubt that the stat they are giving is more than some kind of rough estimate...

.L

 

[Zero]

I'm certainly not that calm and I don't feel like an "Old soul" as a matter of fact I don't feel like I'll be around long enough to see what happens and know everything I want to. Maybe INFPs would fit the description better. I don't know.

I wish I could believe something like that...

 

[murkrow]

Yuck.

I can't stand reincarnation ideas. They totally remove the worth of life.

If I could be convinced of reincarnation I would have myself cryogenically frozen.

Or build a phylactery and become a liche.

also, what is wrong with people discussing hand bags? You discuss art don't you?

The fact that you're thinking they will "come around" means that you have an elitist mindset which totally goes against the "old soul" idea.

 

[Cabbo Pearimo]

Cold-reading and warm-reading are very confusing things, for the untrained mind. Go now, read derren brown's Trick Of The Mind, dissilusion yourself!

Remember that 'channeled spirits' do not express personality. They are invented by the medium to make guesses about things, specific or no, which relate to the victim.



If a 'channeled spirit' expresses anger this will be due to ideomotor movement on a ouigee board or a moving table or people putting their feet on the ground.

 

[manger]

Yuck.

Getting frozen would probably not stop you from reincarnating over and over again, but it's worth a try.

I think we are all elitist in some way, whether it's that you think you're smarter, better looking, or 'deeper' than the next guy on the street. Why else would you come to this forum? We prefer being surrounded by people who we perceive to be like ourselves. I'm sure in some circles discussing handbags with such enthusiasm and even poor grammar as these girls were is a great way to promote development of... something, but in most cases it just turns me off.

What I want to know is whether you fit the description.

Cold-reading and warm-reading

If you were directing this at me, I'm familiar with cold-reading and warm reading. In fact just yesterday an acquaintance tried to cold read my ass with tarot cards. Knowing about this stuff is what makes it so hard for me to buy the idea of channeling.

 

[Radioactive_Springtime]

I think any afterlife devalues life.

 

[Aphasia]

@Manger: According to your first link, 10-15% of the population consists of old souls. I am apparently an old soul if I'm judged on having a majority of traits, but that could just be a description of me in the mornings.

 

[manger]

Each soul age has 7 levels. The latest stage of old souls makes up about 1% of the world's population. Furthermore, there apparently exist concentrated areas of old souls in certain countries, so this number in most places is less than 1%.
http://www.michaelteachings.com/thoughts_soul_age.html

 

[Vulture]

Is this just somekind of ''what if'' idea or an actual silly and unfounded preposition?

 

[manger]

I'm not propositioning anybody. I thought this was an interesting concept, and was curious to see whether there was some overlap between what is identified as "soul age" and personality type.

But seeing as how so many people seem outright offended by this, I'd also like to add the general question of soul to this post. Posters, do you believe that you have a soul? By soul I mean some unique metaphysical aspect that cannot be perceived by any known means.

 

[Aphasia]

I thought you were talking about old souls only, not 7th level old souls =.=". I'm undecided on metaphysical concepts mostly because they can't be proved or disproved (currently). So, verdict on possible existence of souls: Maybe. (Dither is me)

 

[Jesin]

I think all this "old souls" stuff is nonsense, but I'm making this post for a different reason.

Since finding out about this I have been feeling unusually high spirited. On the way to work the other day, I was seated next to two girls who were engaged in a very animated conversation about handbags. Normally I would have been thinking, "these girls are dumb," but instead I smiled and considered that they might eventually come around.

That sounds almost exactly like the weird-happy-introspective mood I was in recently for a period of about 3-4 weeks (I think it started a few days before I joined the forum). Closer to the end, I realized I had been distinctly more cuckoo than usual during that time, and resolved to keep myself a bit more firmly grounded in reality.

I have managed to hold onto the remnants of that happyfun, and I still slip into that good mood sometimes. I think I've gotten better at letting myself float a little without floating away.

Anyway, sorry to intrude, please carry on whatever discussion you were having.

EDIT: Gagisk! Seems that this thread is already drifting, and it's turning into yet another variation on this one.

 

[Kidege]

Guess someone should give an answer from within the field (don't knock it till you've tried it... extensively. And even then, don't knock it for everybody else).

The way I see it, there's many reasons why someone might be an INTP this time over, and it's not necessarily because they're "old souls". Maybe they lived fast, maybe they had a teacher, maybe they're just trying it this time and the next time they'll completely reject this personality... I do think, however, that the measure of introspection that INTPs are known for isn't a thing a "kid" can reach very easily.

Anyway, you can't tell how old someone is unless you're a reaaally good psychic -haven't found anyone that good, or unless that person practices regression.

*Ahem* My experience with regression and "regressees" tells me older people (that is, the ones who lived and learned, not the ones who come over and over to repeat the same mistakes) are incredibly well balanced, very multitalented, and capable of choosing how to act anytime. That is, if they are Es, they can act like a perfect I at the drop of a hat and viceversa, if they consider it necessary, without straining themselves. So, not necessarily INTPs, though maybe the happier sort of INTPs are in the lot.

On a side note, I don't think that the difficult romantic lives and androginity, etc. have anything to do with old age. The difficult romantic life might in fact be indicative that someone still has a lot of growing up to do, whether they're old or not.


I haven't checked the link you offered (sorry), but what I do know about channeling is that it can be awfully dangerous for the medium. Besides, how can you tell who are you channeling? Look at it this way: people lie, cheat and are dumb while they're alive and/or have physical bodies. Death or incorporeality doesn't make you honest and wise.

 

[Jordan~]

I think all this "old souls" stuff is nonsense, but I'm making this post for a different reason.



That sounds almost exactly like the weird-happy-introspective mood I was in recently for a period of about 3-4 weeks (I think it started a few days before I joined the forum). Closer to the end, I realized I had been distinctly more cuckoo than usual during that time, and resolved to keep myself a bit more firmly grounded in reality.

I have managed to hold onto the remnants of that happyfun, and I still slip into that good mood sometimes. I think I've gotten better at letting myself float a little without floating away.

Anyway, sorry to intrude, please carry on whatever discussion you were having.

EDIT: Gagisk! Seems that this thread is already drifting, and it's turning into yet another variation on this one.

I go that way sometimes at night, between being tired and exhausted. Or, well, it feels a bit like being mildly drugged.

 

[Jesin]

Yes, I almost made a comparison to being drugged or drunk, but I stopped myself because I have no experience with either of those. When I get like that, I'm more likely to do something that will embarrass me later.

(I have since realized that I hadn't quite sobered up even when I made that post you quoted.)

 

[keanne32]

I might be in the minority here, but I find the concept of reincarnation to be appealing. Not in the karmic sense, though, just comfort in the fact that maybe we're allowed to have more than one lifetime in this hugely elusive universe. lol. That sounded more mystical than revering, didn't it? Anyway, I skimmed over what was written on the site. I liked it. It came off as one-sided for me, but nevertheless interesting. Most of the traits were very INTP-ish. :]

ETA: Oh. You asked a couple of things I failed to answer. Umm, yes I do believe in souls. And yes, the description of an Old Soul does fit me to a certain degree. Though I find I'm quite volatile sometimes, and not as detached as I want to be.

 

[October]

Well, according to those traits, I may be an 'old soul' but I really don't know whether to believe that or not - I do find that an interesting read, and I've always found reincarnation a fascinating subject - but I'm rather suspicious about the whole thing and I'm not fully certain about that.... Plus, I tend to find past lives interesting because sometimes I can't really understand why do I feel so old inside and different from other people my age (even people told me I'm too mature for my age) and I sometimes say it's because of a past life or so - yes, I can get really imaginative in certain cases.

 

[loveofreason]

[off topic posts split]

Thread reincarnated.

 

[Tyria]

Interesting ideas to say the least. Perhaps they could have applications elsewhere.

 

[Prof_Pointless]

This seems to be a cheap imitation of Buddhist doctrine regarding our being stuck in cyclic existence until we are able to achieve perfect cognition. This focus on the mental state and personal awareness embodies the Ti function, which operates precisely in these realms. For this reason, the way INTP's operate, it only makes sense that we would be the leading candidates for enlightenment, pristine cognition or whatever you want to call it.

Currently I'm in the process of researching Buddhism, so I'm no expert, yet, and find it speaks well to me, but I haven't yet come to the conclusion if it is something I believe in a religious sense.

 

[Mars]

Well, as interesting as the entire notion is I must say that I will always hover on the edge of is all this mysterious mumbo jumbo real or just an emotional reasoning to the universe at large.

To tell you the truth I couldn't really care for realities core truths being magical or logical, it all melds into far too many balanced dualities for me to discern a coherent asymmetry in validity of either line of reasoning. Even though there is some freakish stuff out there, it leaves me to doubt peoples claims about it.

However, on with OP's questions
-yes I do believe in the soul. Simply because life cannot be created in a laboratory, only spliced. Yes, I believe there's more to that but concise/simple reasons for like questions.
-as for the old soul theory, maybe as suggested before a slower paced lifestyle have time to think is a reason for immature souls to go to a 'cocoon' personality, that is if this concept is to accommodate for a broader spectrum.

Now that the op has their answers, time for a little waffle.
-As for the feeling of 'old in your bones' I do believe that a plausible explanation is from the mental battering that educating people who cannot rationalise objective reasoning, dealing with people who do agree with you but are saying it in a manner that makes it sound like a complete contradiction[pet hate for not picking up on it earlier] and being dragged through those emotionally charged style/fashion/vogue trivialities like shopping/fanboys and the like.
Which leads me to conclude that there could be an as of yet unperceived [on my part] defining feature about life, its creation [in womb and general] and the qualities of a soul. The crux of which feature would drastically alter my working definition of life its purpose and the number 42. Which in my mind opens *that* door of the questions being more important than the answers, that could fall into the nature/nurture debate and ergo the shift of plausible outcomes reached through observable/quantifiable facts becomes slightly more tangible.
And now my mind just snapped. ....dammit >.<
Something about a planal overlap that is acheived thorugh people incapable of experiencing such things as Déjà vu being placed alongside those that can, this leads to conflicting views through differences in experience.

Although I must add that I am almost becomming sickened by the similatiry of the conclusions these debates lead to. It leaves me believing that the only worthwhile endeavour is to live life with a good story to tell, at least you'll get a laugh out of it.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

This seems to be a cheap imitation of Buddhist doctrine regarding our being stuck in cyclic existence until we are able to achieve perfect cognition. This focus on the mental state and personal awareness embodies the Ti function, which operates precisely in these realms. For this reason, the way INTP's operate, it only makes sense that we would be the leading candidates for enlightenment, pristine cognition or whatever you want to call it.

Currently I'm in the process of researching Buddhism, so I'm no expert, yet, and find it speaks well to me, but I haven't yet come to the conclusion if it is something I believe in a religious sense.

One thing about Buddhism is that the religious beliefs (and thus religious validity) are not terribly important to them. Buddhism is more a philosophy, or even a psychology, for modifying how one's mind works.

 

[Vatroslav]

more likely to be androgynous, bisexual, homosexual, whatever..

It would make more sense to say that are more likely to be asexual...