Obama

[QSR]

Said he likes to know what he's talking about before coming out and saying something. Very INTP response.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

Or a smart move, specifically contrasting himself with the last president we had. He does mention curiosity a lot though...
​

 

[RobertJ]

One thing I notice about Obama is that he is amazing at endearing himself to easily malleable minds. Of course he is quite charismatic and well spoken, he seems to hold a spell over his audience.
Maybe it's obvious that I'm not on the Obama express, I simply feel as though he's a new diaper on the same shit-filled baby. The government will continue to expand in size by even more than it did under Bush. Obama promised to vote to repeal the Patriot Act but did an about-face and voted for it. He's another pawn.
I would like to direct anyone who's interested to watch a documentary called the Obama Deception, granted it's scope is much broader than just Obama. You can find high-quality full-length versions on Youtube and Google Video.

 

[hopefulmonster]

One thing I notice about Obama is that he is amazing at endearing himself to easily malleable minds. Of course he is quite charismatic and well spoken, he seems to hold a spell over his audience.
Maybe it's obvious that I'm not on the Obama express, I simply feel as though he's a new diaper on the same shit-filled baby. The government will continue to expand in size by even more than it did under Bush. Obama promised to vote to repeal the Patriot Act but did an about-face and voted for it. He's another pawn.
I would like to direct anyone who's interested to watch a documentary called the Obama Deception, granted it's scope is much broader than just Obama. You can find high-quality full-length versions on Youtube and Google Video.

There is a theory that obama plans on keeping some of the lest..tasteful bush administration policies long enough to enforce his agenda and then will dissolve it asap. I would like to believe this is true but honestly even he is corruptible.

I do believe he believes in intellectual honesty and consistency of thought however; which is more then could be said of most of our political leaders past and present.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I'm not sure how much I like Obama. When I compare him to Darth Cheney and his sidekick Idiot Boy, I feel like I'm in love. It's so damned hard to be objective if you actually paid attention to the last 8 years.

 

[Ermine]

He's just a new charismatic, likeable face on the same old government.

 

[Ben]

One thing I notice about Obama is that he is amazing at endearing himself to easily malleable minds. Of course he is quite charismatic and well spoken, he seems to hold a spell over his audience.

A spell like the one your under when you choose to except everything that a propaganda filled documentary tells you?

 

[Ermine]

Exactly. His outward persona is almost like a living piece of propaganda in a lot of ways.

 

[RobertJ]

A spell like the one your under when you choose to except everything that a propaganda filled documentary tells you?

Well Ben, first of all why is it propaganda-filled? I'm not disagreeing, just asking how it is so.
Also, That documentary is not my only base of information from which I derive my general feelings about government and how it is run.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Well Ben, first of all why is it propaganda-filled? I'm not disagreeing, just asking how it is so.
Also, That documentary is not my only base of information from which I derive my general feelings about government and how it is run.

I haven't seen it myself but considering that it was done by Alex Jones (a known paleoconservative conspiracy theorist with a low level education) means that the odds are about 99% that it is nothing more than an over-blown propoganda piece. Just my 2 cents worth.

I wouldn't expect great things from any president nowadays nor should we assume he will make things worse (Obama can walk around with his pants around his ankles sucking his thumb and be better than what we just had). Ermine is right in that the fundamental changes need to be with how the government works. Who occupies what office will only matter marginally until then.

 

[truthseeker72]

I haven't seen it myself but considering that it was done by Alex Jones (a known paleoconservative conspiracy theorist with a low level education) means that the odds are about 99% that it is nothing more than an over-blown propoganda piece. Just my 2 cents worth.

I wouldn't expect great things from any president nowadays nor should we assume he will make things worse (Obama can walk around with his pants around his ankles sucking his thumb and be better than what we just had). Ermine is right in that the fundamental changes need to be with how the government works. Who occupies what office will only matter marginally until then.

How much longer will the Obama administration and its supporters continue to use the prior administration as a scapegoat? Certainly, W had plenty of flaws, but lets judge Obama on his own merits.

As an aside, why does Obama insist on starting every other sentence with "Look . . ."?

 

[RobertJ]

I haven't seen it myself but considering that it was done by Alex Jones (a known paleoconservative conspiracy theorist with a low level education) means that the odds are about 99% that it is nothing more than an over-blown propoganda piece. Just my 2 cents worth.

Sounds presumptuous. At least as much as you have purported Alex Jones to be.
Alex jones is an admitted paleoconservative, which by this definition, which seems to be most fitting in this case, is this:
"Paleoconservatism (sometimes shortened to paleo or paleocon when the context is clear) is a term for an anti-communist and anti-authoritarian."
I'm also not sure why "conspiracy theorist" is so often used as a catch-all copout to completely discredit a person and all information they bring forward without fair analysis.
I will agree that Alex Jones overblows a lot of things, but I leave it up to myself to decide what that is. Much of the information that Alex does provide is backed up by documentation and he more often than not directs someone to that source of information and presents it directly when possible.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

How much longer will the Obama administration and its supporters continue to use the prior administration as a scapegoat? Certainly, W had plenty of flaws, but lets judge Obama on his own merits.

As an aside, why does Obama insist on starting every other sentence with "Look . . ."?

Can't answer the second question. It is kind of annoying.

As to the first, about as long as the Bush admin. used the Clinton as a scapegoat? Seriously though, Obama hasn't been in office long enough for anything he has done to work or make things worse. The mess we are in right now was inherited so of course all those problems will be blamed on Bush and right now that is rightly so (although as my last post in the AIG thread shows the roots of much of it goes beyond that). If we want to discuss the merits of the Bush admin, I'd be happy to do so


@RobertJ

The same can be said for Michael Moore on the other side of the spectrum. What matters is if the whole picture is being presented or if you are able to gleen out the truths of the matter being overblown. Yes, it is fair to say that "conspiracy theorists" can be used as a copout. There may be truth in what Jone's says in that doc. I haven't seen it so I can't judge. I just know that when I don't trust the source (partisan) I don't trust the product.

 

[Sapphire Harp]

I will agree that Alex Jones overblows a lot of things, but I leave it up to myself to decide what that is. Much of the information that Alex does provide is backed up by documentation and he more often than not directs someone to that source of information and presents it directly when possible.

I've seen a few samples of Alex Jones and you're kind of getting at what I see in him, but not quite.

Alex Jones does pass on word about some odd things in the news, but he draws extreme conclusions from them very quickly and immediately gives his interpretation the status of gospel. In my opinion, he's so wrapped up in his own viewpoint, there's no hope he can think about second guessing himself, ameliorating his views, and working towards a more accurate understanding of reality. Since I realized that, I haven't payed him any attention. I'm sorry to dismiss your video so readily, but I can't justify taking the time to watch something of his...

From some other sources I've heard some potentially 'funny' things with Obama. Would you be so kind to give us a few major points from the video about him?
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[del]

The problem with Alex Jones is that he strings things together too broadly. As it was noted, he does do a lot of good research -- but if you look at the (legitimate) references in his work, you'll basically find the same thing cited by Noam Chomsky in his books.

As an example, let's compare Alex Jones and Chomsky, because they're worlds apart.

Jones looks at the evidence and sees deliberate conspiracy lurking underneath; Chomsky sees it as more a sociological phenomenon that arises naturally from self-interested social institutions in our capitalist system, with no one behind the scenes pulling any strings as part of a diabolical plan.

That means their solutions are obviously very different -- my understanding is that Alex Jones is something of a libertarian, and thinks everything would be fine if the conspiratorial institutions were abolished. Chomsky sees the problem as a wider sociological and cultural problem.

That obviously has implications into each persons' view of government, financial institutions, culture, and so on.

Now to be fair I am going to reveal my bias and say that, while I don't completely agree with either of them, I do think that when reasoning from basically the same evidence, Chomsky's inductions are less of a leap, since he assumes way fewer exogenous variables. This generally advantageous in the spirit of Occam's Razor.

For counter balance, I'd urge everyone who say the Obama Deception to watch Manufacturing Consent.

So please, for anyone who is just discovering Alex Jones: don't think that he's the only one who's uncovering this documented evidence, and don't think his is necessarily the natural interpretation of that evidence. He's not looking at anything new. And especially don't believe that just because some criticisms are valid, you should latch on to anyone's entire world view.

This wasn't aimed at anyone in this thread in particular, I'm just tired of seeing all this Alex Jones/Mises Institute/whatever nonsense becoming so popular on my college campus.

Edit: and yes, I did watch the Obama Deception with my room mate.

 

[QSR]

RobertJ are you like a big Pat Buchanan supporter? You think Revelations is the key to understanding everything that has to do with the government? John Birch Society, anyone?

 

[RobertJ]

RobertJ are you like a big Pat Buchanan supporter? You think Revelations is the key to understanding everything that has to do with the government? John Birch Society, anyone?

I've been an advocate of Ron Paul and his stance against the money powers. I agree with Paul that it is absolutely imperative to abolish the Federal Reserve System and end the wars for global conquest that are being waged right now. When I was watching the presidential debates before the election I was seeing clear bias against Paul not only in the time with which he had to speak, but also in the post-debate analysis by various news outlets.
In regards to revelations, I don't have enough knowledge of it to say that it is an accurate blueprint for what's happening, but many seem to believe it is so. Although if anyone has any good points to make in regards to revelations and world events I'd be interested to hear them.
In large parts I have to agree with the tenets of the John Birch Society, but ever since Jim Jones I have a natural distrust of all types of "Societies".

 

[RobertJ]

That means their solutions are obviously very different -- my understanding is that Alex Jones is something of a libertarian, and thinks everything would be fine if the conspiratorial institutions were abolished. Chomsky sees the problem as a wider sociological and cultural problem.

You know, sometimes I wonder about this. Often times I simply feel that good people don't seek power, so it is inevitable that the powers that be will steer humanity in a course of calamity. Is it just human nature that over time societies will denegrate and become tyrannous because it is tyrants who are driven to be in control?

 

[truthseeker72]

I've been an advocate of Ron Paul and his stance against the money powers. I agree with Paul that it is absolutely imperative to abolish the Federal Reserve System and end the wars for global conquest that are being waged right now. When I was watching the presidential debates before the election I was seeing clear bias against Paul not only in the time with which he had to speak, but also in the post-debate analysis by various news outlets.
In regards to revelations, I don't have enough knowledge of it to say that it is an accurate blueprint for what's happening, but many seem to believe it is so. Although if anyone has any good points to make in regards to revelations and world events I'd be interested to hear them.
In large parts I have to agree with the tenets of the John Birch Society, but ever since Jim Jones I have a natural distrust of all types of "Societies".

I also voted for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries, and later, I voted for Bob Barr, the libertarian candidate, in the general election. You're right about the unfair media treatment Paul received during his campaign. Both the mainstream media, and the supposedly right-wing Fox News, ignored him or summarily dismissed him as a "fringe" candidate.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Ron Paul was an interesting candidate but he never stood a chance. He was too non-Republican to win the nomination and his ideas would have scared the holy crap out of the general population for the Nov. election if he were somehow nominated. If he had moderated his positions somewhat he might have gotten more attention but he was generally a less than 10% vote getter from the get go. >10% almost never gets any media attention unless they do something really stupid. It's a shame because some of his ideas deserved debate (although I would have worked against him if it looked like he had a chance).

 

[RobertJ]

Would you be so kind to give us a few major points from the video about him?
​

Well, Obama is actually just a fraction of what it is about, but the general message is that Obama (as with Bush) is another shill for elite oligarchical financiers who really control policy in America along with globalist roundtable groups such as Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderberg Group - members of which comprise Obama's cabinet almost in totality.
So it is not so much about Obama as much as it is exposing the powers behind him.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

No Illuminati?

 

[RobertJ]

Define Illuminati

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I was teasing kinda. Sorry. I've had past dealings with someone who was convinced the Bilderbergs controlled the world. I think anything can be made to look suspicious and that's what I think a lot of this kind of conspiracy is, just suspicion.

"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will."
-Abe Lincoln

Illuminati

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

My reply got caught in the spam catcher. Someone will get it out of there soon I hope.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

There it is!

 

[del]

You know, sometimes I wonder about this. Often times I simply feel that good people don't seek power, so it is inevitable that the powers that be will steer humanity in a course of calamity. Is it just human nature that over time societies will denegrate and become tyrannous because it is tyrants who are driven to be in control?

I'd be interested in what you think of Manufacturing Consent, of you have find the time to watch it (it's almost 3 hours, so I understand if you don't have time).

Manufacturing_Consent.wmv

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Reviving this thread! I found this article about Obama:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/opinion/05dowd.html?_r=1&em

And it's screaming that Obama is INTP.

 

[Toad]

wow obama did smoked weed and did cocaine too!

 

[FusionKnight]

INTPs aren't natural manipulators of people. Yes, we can blend in to many different environments, but we're not that good at "reading" other people, finding out what they want, and making them think we're on their side... in fact, that sounds way too insincere for the nominal INTP...

 

[Chronomar]

I am not entirely certain on whether Obama will be a good president or not. I do know, however, that it is not our government system that is broken. It is our (America's) culture. This is exactly why the Roman Republic fell. Because its people became petty and ignorant and uncaring, and a dictator took over. We are heading that way. The populus needs to remain informed and watchful. In all governments and countries.

 

[flow]

Obama is pragmatic and thoughtful. This gives me hope that America will not be headed the way of Rome anytime soon.

 

[Chronomar]

Those are the things I like about Obama, his being pragmatic and thoughtful. I guess I was initially wary of his charisma (I've had bad experiences with overly charismatic individuals; they can sometimes fool you...). As time goes on, I become more certain of his good intentions and ability.

 

[John]

Obama is just a puppet, albeit a very charismatic one