Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
-
OK, it's on.
My Virtual Brain Concept Explained
- Thread starter Black Rose
- Start date
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
ProxyAmenRa
Here to bring back the love!
Interesting idea. Sounds similar to some machine learning techniques. I don't exactly understand why it has to be 3D though.
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
It could be a higher dimensional graph but I was just thinking about it as similar to cellular automata.
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
JansenDowel
Active Member
I'm going to get into mathematical biology soon. With a focus on the emergent properties of the details you have described above. For example, physiology instead of anatomy. I personally believe that this approach will prove to be more productive.
As for the virtualizing of biotic ecologies, I am also interested to see where this goes!
As for the virtualizing of biotic ecologies, I am also interested to see where this goes!
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Artsu Tharaz
The Lamb
- Local time
- Today 7:18 PM
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2010
- Messages
- 3,134
Hi AnimeKitty,
You seem to be speaking about similar ideas to that which I am myself trying to figure out, albeit going down a different path of research.
As you speak of decreasing the time for communication between environment and self, I myself visualise this by assigning a number to each space-point of the environment, between 0 and 1, and the goal is to get each point as close to 1 as possible, or you could also say as close to 0, as each is equivalent, but as you say the overall goal is to you the decrease of entropy, the compression of information so that we may enact the changes which we desire with the least cost, the least expenditure required.
A similar idea is that of a metric space which assigns all points in a space a distance from a given point, and the distance is of course at least 0, and can only be 0 if it is the point itself. So, for consistency I will say we try to bring the environment as close to 0 as it can be.
Now a few ideas come to mind in this scenario, and these are to do with the distance of a point from itself and whether two points could be "entangled" so that the point further away is brought immediately closer to the point closer together because they are seen as the same.
Now, in a metric space, the point itself is seen as the only point which is of zero distance from itself, however instead what we may do is treat this as a singularity and assign it any value we want. We could in this case assign it the "average" value, and this average value means that the point which is itself represents the overall distance of the total space from the centre of the self. This is similar to the concept of a "centre of gravity" which assigns a single point of an object a certain significance, and as such may be used to represent the object in its entirety, for example in determining the overall gravitational attraction between two objects.
As you mention also, what we wish to achieve is to synchronize these points in the environment, and I believe that doing so would in fact reduce the overall entropy of the system. Essentially, if we were able to create a closed symbol around the centre of the space, then this would reduce entropy, by placing a limit on the system as a whole, and as you mention, the overall past is represented in the mind of the person through such a symbol. We may designate to each symbol itself an overall value, and also assign to it a degree of closure, indicating how well we could improve on this symbol, and so how much improvement could be made to the object.
As you state, the overall goal of this process is to bring the future state closer together, to reduce the discrepancy between what is intended through an action, and what its overall results will be in the long-term, with the final goal being to achieve a minimal feedback loop whereby action in the present has the least delay that one has achieved, or as close as we can get to this. This would reduce the delay in one's actions allowing for the most efficient navigation of the world around oneself.
For this to occur, we must be able to unite all given aspects of time. The symbol representing the past must be aligned with the symbol representing the environment and this symbol must also be aligned with the symbol representing the future, and these symbols will be aligned with the perfect symbol which is representative of the case of minimal entropy, and as such, will allow for the minimisation of the spectrum of possibilities which one is presented with.
To attain the perfect symbol, the state of zero entropy is to all conceptualisation an impossibility and represents the true distinction between the state of existence or being, and the state of non-existence or non-being. The reason for this impossibility is that nothing could not be represented through something as a thing cannot be what it is not. Yet, we see what is around us and that it is, and this is the ultimate truth. The contrast of nothing and something is the ultimate symbol, however by its very nature can never be captured. Yet, we know that if nothing is a possibility, then even from a state of nothing then something could arise from it, for we see around ourselves the truth that existence is.
Thus, if nothing is a possibility, existence itself is an impossibility by its own standards. What we see around ourselves would thus be seen as impossible, yet, in spite of this does in fact exist. Such a state of affairs could only rightly be termed as a miracle. So if this is the case, then all existence is miraculous. So, to seek this universal symbol, is to seek complete union with the environment. If we are unified with the environment then entropy is zero, and the attempt to achieve such a state is an attempt to achieve the impossible. If life and existence is a miracle, then to attempt a miracle is to shine light on the environment, and to shine light is to achieve the minimal distance between feedback which we can shine. It is life creating itself, the perfect state of union.
You seem to be speaking about similar ideas to that which I am myself trying to figure out, albeit going down a different path of research.
As you speak of decreasing the time for communication between environment and self, I myself visualise this by assigning a number to each space-point of the environment, between 0 and 1, and the goal is to get each point as close to 1 as possible, or you could also say as close to 0, as each is equivalent, but as you say the overall goal is to you the decrease of entropy, the compression of information so that we may enact the changes which we desire with the least cost, the least expenditure required.
A similar idea is that of a metric space which assigns all points in a space a distance from a given point, and the distance is of course at least 0, and can only be 0 if it is the point itself. So, for consistency I will say we try to bring the environment as close to 0 as it can be.
Now a few ideas come to mind in this scenario, and these are to do with the distance of a point from itself and whether two points could be "entangled" so that the point further away is brought immediately closer to the point closer together because they are seen as the same.
Now, in a metric space, the point itself is seen as the only point which is of zero distance from itself, however instead what we may do is treat this as a singularity and assign it any value we want. We could in this case assign it the "average" value, and this average value means that the point which is itself represents the overall distance of the total space from the centre of the self. This is similar to the concept of a "centre of gravity" which assigns a single point of an object a certain significance, and as such may be used to represent the object in its entirety, for example in determining the overall gravitational attraction between two objects.
As you mention also, what we wish to achieve is to synchronize these points in the environment, and I believe that doing so would in fact reduce the overall entropy of the system. Essentially, if we were able to create a closed symbol around the centre of the space, then this would reduce entropy, by placing a limit on the system as a whole, and as you mention, the overall past is represented in the mind of the person through such a symbol. We may designate to each symbol itself an overall value, and also assign to it a degree of closure, indicating how well we could improve on this symbol, and so how much improvement could be made to the object.
As you state, the overall goal of this process is to bring the future state closer together, to reduce the discrepancy between what is intended through an action, and what its overall results will be in the long-term, with the final goal being to achieve a minimal feedback loop whereby action in the present has the least delay that one has achieved, or as close as we can get to this. This would reduce the delay in one's actions allowing for the most efficient navigation of the world around oneself.
For this to occur, we must be able to unite all given aspects of time. The symbol representing the past must be aligned with the symbol representing the environment and this symbol must also be aligned with the symbol representing the future, and these symbols will be aligned with the perfect symbol which is representative of the case of minimal entropy, and as such, will allow for the minimisation of the spectrum of possibilities which one is presented with.
To attain the perfect symbol, the state of zero entropy is to all conceptualisation an impossibility and represents the true distinction between the state of existence or being, and the state of non-existence or non-being. The reason for this impossibility is that nothing could not be represented through something as a thing cannot be what it is not. Yet, we see what is around us and that it is, and this is the ultimate truth. The contrast of nothing and something is the ultimate symbol, however by its very nature can never be captured. Yet, we know that if nothing is a possibility, then even from a state of nothing then something could arise from it, for we see around ourselves the truth that existence is.
Thus, if nothing is a possibility, existence itself is an impossibility by its own standards. What we see around ourselves would thus be seen as impossible, yet, in spite of this does in fact exist. Such a state of affairs could only rightly be termed as a miracle. So if this is the case, then all existence is miraculous. So, to seek this universal symbol, is to seek complete union with the environment. If we are unified with the environment then entropy is zero, and the attempt to achieve such a state is an attempt to achieve the impossible. If life and existence is a miracle, then to attempt a miracle is to shine light on the environment, and to shine light is to achieve the minimal distance between feedback which we can shine. It is life creating itself, the perfect state of union.
Artsu Tharaz
The Lamb
- Local time
- Today 7:18 PM
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2010
- Messages
- 3,134
My above reply is a response to your video
Entropy Synchronization of Network Intelligence
Entropy Synchronization of Network Intelligence
Black Rose
An unbreakable bond
Artsu Tharaz
The Lamb
- Local time
- Today 7:18 PM
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2010
- Messages
- 3,134
I had a lot of ideas from the video, however the main one is that I like to imagine what it would be like to be things like a rock or atom, like to imagine what their experience would be.
Like, a proton, there would be like a visual field which is like ours but in all directions, and would only have one main variable, which is the strength of electric charge in any given direction. The core of the field, which is the proton itself, would then be given the overall direction of the electric field around it, and so it would naturally move in this direction. Of course, even the proton has free will so will not always move in this direction however we can predict with a fairly high certainty that it will.
Now, for an atom in a molecule, we could suppose that it is communicating mainly with the adjacent atoms around it, like you mentioned about platonic solids, it might have say 6 that it is communicating with mainly, and the ones beyond that have weaker communication. In a solid, because the communication is on such a small level, something like a rock behaves in a very predictable way, as the choices of each atom comprising it are out of sync and so have no overall direction, most of the time.
In the human brain, there are a huge number of connections and lots of communication, I think through electric pulses or something similar, so the human is able to enact complex actions since it is so well synced up.
An electronic device is also fairly well synced up, however certainly far less than the human mind in complexity, so still operates within natural bounds. However, a human and an electronic device can communicate with each other, not just in a one way process of the human inputting commands, but the human can pick up signals from the device and alter them. I think a human may also be able to communicate with a solid object through something like a resonance frequency.
There is a question on whether souls are real, like if we are discrete conscious entities. I think it is similar to asking if a cup is a discrete entity. It is in a way, since it is fairly well held together and quite easy to distinguish from what is around it, however there is no true point where the cup starts or ends, it is just where matter is more densely packed together and held in its given form.
So I see the soul as the same, that it is not independent from what is around it, it flows smoothly, however is a point of high density, like picture a 2D square with certain parts that are very bright and others that are dark, like maybe there would be 10 bright circles that get duller as you go out from the centre, representing each person.
You mention a lot about dynamic processes, like, catching a rabbit - why catch the rabbit? To me, it is that the mind views this as a worthwhile pursuit, it is the belief of the agent which determines it. It is a question of passion. I often refer to Schopenhauer's terms Will and Representation, where Representation is how the environment is being experienced by the subject, and the Will is the active change being enacted in regards to the environment. The body of the agent is seen as sort of the intersection of this, so it is the part that is most directly changed by the will of the agent, or rather the part which interacts with the physical.
The imagination is also very closely changed by the will of the agent. I have made an idea of a land, where there are these little creatures, sort of like fireflies, and they move in totally unpredictable ways, and as soon as it seems like they have been predicted, they do something else. They always go beyond what is expected of them, and achieve amazing feats through their co-ordination and the patterns they form.
I like to create all different kinds of mental stories, and I get really absorbed in them. Like imagining aliens or dragons around me, and when I do this its like the real world around me becomes part of that story. An alien for example might say, go over here, and you will see such and such a person, and on the ground will be a thing which will appeal to you in a certain way... or things like that, and it will become true. So my real life gets more and more like the story.
I have certain imaginary friends who I have seen in dreams, one in particular is a wizard, usually small and can grow to huge sizes, and has very powerful magic and can even tame dragons. These dreams come to life for me and I live in them in my daily life. I have a lot of fears relating to this though, because I think people will look at me and say, look at this crazy person living life like its a dream... and that I could get bashed, or taken in by police, mental health professionals, and things like that. So it can be hard to both be around people, and enjoy myself, since I prefer to live through my imagination.
Some friends will also do this process with me, usually ones who are also imaginative, and I think they have similar troubles being around people in society. I have found that it is labelled as a mental illness to do this sort of thing and I think that the reason for that is because it may put one in danger of harm from others, and that it is an unusual behaviour. I am looking for ways in which I can freely engage in these imaginative processes without this fear, so I often tend to use things like alcohol and post on forums, as this allows me to communicate socially without any immediately present dangers. It comes with a price of physical alienation however, and also inability to do other things.
I can work a job while doing this, or go to university, however I know that I am being probably seen as weird or crazy, so it tends to make it hard. There is little motivation to do these sorts of thing for me generally. Often times when I do it it will be part of a story that is directing me towards that particular location, almost like following a light, or choosing to go where I believe will be interesting for me, and create stories that best capture my interest.
Like, a proton, there would be like a visual field which is like ours but in all directions, and would only have one main variable, which is the strength of electric charge in any given direction. The core of the field, which is the proton itself, would then be given the overall direction of the electric field around it, and so it would naturally move in this direction. Of course, even the proton has free will so will not always move in this direction however we can predict with a fairly high certainty that it will.
Now, for an atom in a molecule, we could suppose that it is communicating mainly with the adjacent atoms around it, like you mentioned about platonic solids, it might have say 6 that it is communicating with mainly, and the ones beyond that have weaker communication. In a solid, because the communication is on such a small level, something like a rock behaves in a very predictable way, as the choices of each atom comprising it are out of sync and so have no overall direction, most of the time.
In the human brain, there are a huge number of connections and lots of communication, I think through electric pulses or something similar, so the human is able to enact complex actions since it is so well synced up.
An electronic device is also fairly well synced up, however certainly far less than the human mind in complexity, so still operates within natural bounds. However, a human and an electronic device can communicate with each other, not just in a one way process of the human inputting commands, but the human can pick up signals from the device and alter them. I think a human may also be able to communicate with a solid object through something like a resonance frequency.
There is a question on whether souls are real, like if we are discrete conscious entities. I think it is similar to asking if a cup is a discrete entity. It is in a way, since it is fairly well held together and quite easy to distinguish from what is around it, however there is no true point where the cup starts or ends, it is just where matter is more densely packed together and held in its given form.
So I see the soul as the same, that it is not independent from what is around it, it flows smoothly, however is a point of high density, like picture a 2D square with certain parts that are very bright and others that are dark, like maybe there would be 10 bright circles that get duller as you go out from the centre, representing each person.
You mention a lot about dynamic processes, like, catching a rabbit - why catch the rabbit? To me, it is that the mind views this as a worthwhile pursuit, it is the belief of the agent which determines it. It is a question of passion. I often refer to Schopenhauer's terms Will and Representation, where Representation is how the environment is being experienced by the subject, and the Will is the active change being enacted in regards to the environment. The body of the agent is seen as sort of the intersection of this, so it is the part that is most directly changed by the will of the agent, or rather the part which interacts with the physical.
The imagination is also very closely changed by the will of the agent. I have made an idea of a land, where there are these little creatures, sort of like fireflies, and they move in totally unpredictable ways, and as soon as it seems like they have been predicted, they do something else. They always go beyond what is expected of them, and achieve amazing feats through their co-ordination and the patterns they form.
I like to create all different kinds of mental stories, and I get really absorbed in them. Like imagining aliens or dragons around me, and when I do this its like the real world around me becomes part of that story. An alien for example might say, go over here, and you will see such and such a person, and on the ground will be a thing which will appeal to you in a certain way... or things like that, and it will become true. So my real life gets more and more like the story.
I have certain imaginary friends who I have seen in dreams, one in particular is a wizard, usually small and can grow to huge sizes, and has very powerful magic and can even tame dragons. These dreams come to life for me and I live in them in my daily life. I have a lot of fears relating to this though, because I think people will look at me and say, look at this crazy person living life like its a dream... and that I could get bashed, or taken in by police, mental health professionals, and things like that. So it can be hard to both be around people, and enjoy myself, since I prefer to live through my imagination.
Some friends will also do this process with me, usually ones who are also imaginative, and I think they have similar troubles being around people in society. I have found that it is labelled as a mental illness to do this sort of thing and I think that the reason for that is because it may put one in danger of harm from others, and that it is an unusual behaviour. I am looking for ways in which I can freely engage in these imaginative processes without this fear, so I often tend to use things like alcohol and post on forums, as this allows me to communicate socially without any immediately present dangers. It comes with a price of physical alienation however, and also inability to do other things.
I can work a job while doing this, or go to university, however I know that I am being probably seen as weird or crazy, so it tends to make it hard. There is little motivation to do these sorts of thing for me generally. Often times when I do it it will be part of a story that is directing me towards that particular location, almost like following a light, or choosing to go where I believe will be interesting for me, and create stories that best capture my interest.