Multiple Choice, Transhumanism

[Cognisant]

You're in an escape pod from a doomed starship and there's three survivable planets in this system you can land on, however each is inhabited and the inhabitants of each will assimilate you into their particular brand of transhumanism, which would you choose?

The Living Planet
Rather than being an ecosystem of different species this planet is covered in one vast organism, a lot like those forests where it's all technically one tree, if you land on this planet your body will be broken down and your brain tissue will be assimilated into a vast collective consciousness. As your brain is assimilated your individual sense of self will erode, the cell themselves don't die but this could still be considered a form of death since without your sense of self whether or not you continue to live may not be relevant.

The Machine Planet
Rather than individual embodied inhabitants this planet has a massive mainframe at its core in which artificial intelligences and digitised human minds reside and share control of the robotic bodies on the vast city above. If you land on this planet your memories and sense of self will be digitised and your body/brain disposed of, but even though your sense of self still exists the fact that it was copied from another format brings into question whether it's really you or just a copy of your now deceased self.

The Etheric Planet
Inexplicable entities from another dimension have established an embassy on this largely barren planet, specifically people who go there hear voices in their minds and when assimilated they disappear in a bright flash of light. Despite the best efforts of these extra-dimensional entities to explain the process to us the mechanism by which people are assimilated still isn't understood, the best explanation thus far is that it works in a way that defies rational explanation, as such the philosophical implications are entirely unknown.

 

[Base groove]

Easy choice.

 

[Cognisant]

Ignorance is bliss?

Well if you say so

 

[Latte]

The last one is kind of a gamble. The two former, one knows sort of what to expect. At least to some degree. So one can figure out if it feels unacceptable or not to oneself. The last one represents possibility and hope for those who can't reconcile with the aspects of the other two, as there is not enough known for one to form a conclusion as to whether it is unacceptable.

hmm.... maybe this explains some of the appeal of mysticism for the unitiated and, uhm, "yolo adventures".

 

[Jennywocky]

Fly into the heart of the nearest sun, since it's better to burn out than to fade away?



EDIT: Oh, cool, that was actually an option!

EDIT2: Actually, I voted Etheric -- it seemed the most ripe with potential.

 

[Architect]

Step One. Land on Machine Planet.

Step Two. Hack, then become its leader.

Step Three. Drinks with umbrellas.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Step One. Land on Machine Planet.

Step Two. Hack, then become it's leader.

Step Three. Drinks with umbrellas.

2.1 use machines to figure out etheric planet, conquer
2.2 conquer living planet and use as slaves
3. drinks with umbrellas

 

[Cognisant]

Seriously now try to consider the choices as if your life was at stake.

Edit: I'm appalled and yet not surprised by how many people are picking the etheric planet.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Seriously now try to consider the choices as if your life was at stake.

I already did

I voted for option #4 (sun)

Regardless if I do follow determinism, the dissociation of my being is not my preference.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Edit: I'm appalled and yet not surprised by how many people are picking the etheric planet.

You can easily extrapolate the choices, but it seems you and Latte already did a good job of that via VM, too simplistic your first definitions, but not surprising

too simplistic and too reductionist

more mentalities and motivations that can influence matters

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Death in the sun is almost serene.
The living/etheric would be my second order alternatives.

 

[Absurdity]

Regardless if I do follow determinism, the dissociation of my being is not my preference.

#teamsun

 

[Jennywocky]

Edit: I'm appalled and yet not surprised by how many people are picking the etheric planet.

You apparently didn't watch the trailers for Transcendence.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Edit: I'm appalled and yet not surprised by how many people are picking the etheric planet.

You apparently didn't watch the trailers for Transcendence.

No, he didn't watch the end of Evangelion

[bimgx=400]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/The_End_of_Evangelion_shot.jpg[/bimgx]

 

[Rook]

Ethereal.
Though my survival is uncertain, I would come into contact with another dimension, with the chance to survive, and to be conscious in that dimension.
Perhaps even immortal.
On the other two planets my self will most likely be lost, with little intellectual reward when compared to the third planet.

 

[Minuend]

All about associations often risen from subtle wording

If one is a consciousness which is able to control a separate machinery body to move around, explore and generally experience different environments, that might be my first choice. it sounds less boring than remaining still without the ability to game or explore.

This would be my pet

If not

Barren land = Dune FTW

Having an embassy on barren land implies there is a lot of undiscovered land = chance for exploration and mapping of unique species and how they survive.

Unknown consequences = very intriguing to the curious mind that seeks exploration and knowledge. It's like traveling through the galaxy with Enterprise all over again \o/

If it's not as exciting as that, I'd take the sun option.

---

The only positive thing about the third one could potentially be a huge increase in knowledge and understanding of everything. But I'm not particularly fond of being together with separate beings, so I doubt I'd like this. Though, my consciousness would probably be altered in such a way that I would be unable to think that.

 

[Cognisant]

What I posted on Latte's board:

The machine planet is for thinkers, the sort of people who find the idea of agonising over whether or not they died appealing because it gives them something really interesting to think about.

The living planet is for feelers, people who don't care about the loss of the self concept if it means they don't feel death, indeed becoming part of collective consciousness would probably feel great, you'd never have to feel lonely ever again.

The etheric planet is for pussies and subjectivists, people who take comfort in their ignorance or take ignorance as an excuse to delude themselves into whatever they want to believe.

 

[Black Rose]

The etheric planet is for pussies and subjectivists, people who take comfort in their ignorance or take ignorance as an excuse to delude themselves into whatever they want to believe.

 

[Cognisant]

I imagined the etheric planet to be a Daemon World now some people will think that's awesome, but most of you won't.

Is ignorance bliss or should you look before you leap?

Edit: I wonder if Animekitty is aware of that pic's subtle irony.

 

[Black Rose]

Within black hole Computronium the quantum state of all possible technology will be brought forth at the selection of your physical form. Eventually we will know how the laws of physics emerge. Avatars of the spiritual plains shall be created in the atemporal manipulation of spacetime.

 

[Cognisant]

There's line between futurism and fantasy, for now that's on the far side.

 

[Dormouse]

What I posted on Latte's board:

The machine planet is for thinkers, the sort of people who find the idea of agonising over whether or not they died appealing because it gives them something really interesting to think about.

The living planet is for feelers, people who don't care about the loss of the self concept if it means they don't feel death, indeed becoming part of collective consciousness would probably feel great, you'd never have to feel lonely ever again.

The etheric planet is for pussies and subjectivists, people who take comfort in their ignorance or take ignorance as an excuse to delude themselves into whatever they want to believe.

Riiiiight. Way to make this about your identity.

The Living Planet
Suicide without all the agony and doubt. Though perhaps your memories are preserved and feed the mental bank of the organism - So it's actually a kind of immortality in stasis. You can end the pain of consciousness without obliterating your existence entirely. Maybe assimilation occurs over a gradient, so your last experience is an ecstatic sense of growing union. Don't think of it as losing your sense of self, think of it as gaining a sense of new selves, of approaching omnipotence. You gain a higher perspective, a larger mind, you can feel using your own senses as well as that of an entire planet. Acquire the power of the greatest organic mind ever. You're not lost, you've become something greater than you were. Spend your eternity evolving, observing, expanding your knowledge and assimilating new wisdom.

The Machine Planet
Why the robot city? If we're able to upload consciousness surely we can generate virtual environments for it to play in. If we can't generate virtual environments for it to play in, surely we'd have cultivated a rich diversity of territories, instead of smothering the planet in a single industrial tangle.
Anyways: You act as if the real question here is whether your "real" self survives the upload, but I would argue the real concern is that, once reduced to a sequence of bits, your mind could be copied and altered as will would have it. You've become somebody's disposable NPC program.
In some ways this is attractive: Multiply yourself, live out parallel existences in the same universe. Experiment, put yourself in strange places to find out how you'd react. Torture your duplicates. Death is impossible without total deletion of the data, likely destruction of the mainframe.
Trying out different robot bodies sounds fun.

The Etheric Planet
You know, there is at least one excellent reason for making this choice: Discovery. Would you have us fear the unknown? Every single one of these choices is a gamble - In fact, on the machine planet your death is certain, (but your resurrection guaranteed.)
Not the surest of choices. For the recklessly curious and optimistic. Throw a dart, it'll land somewhere between awesome bliss and inescapable torment. You've not told us what the mind-voices promise. Are their attempts to explain genuine? Is it a warning or a sugar-trap?
If it's extra-dimensional, nothing need follow our rules. Do you want to escape causality? Explore true otherness? Don't you have a sense of adventure?

---

So we have the self destroyed by rapid evolution/absorption into another perspective
destroyed by the annihilation of uniqueness, reduction to an easily replicated pattern with no shared database
destroyed, presumably, by being removed from the laws of the universe that birthed it - religion undermines the physics of selfhood/extra-dimensional scrambling/???


If we have to be judgmental I'd argue the sun option is for boring people afraid to go out in fireworks or alternatively, the most responsible of us, who fear donating their bodies and minds to the spread of evils of uncertain proportions.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

fuck the cyborgs, i say.

 

[Anktark]

My reasons:

Living planet- not really a choice for introvert. I like trees, algae and fungi, but I would rather retain my identity.

Machine planet- sounds like a cool place, not a bad option. Finally an opportunity to see my ideas being born in detail.

The Etheric planet- there is this thing that defies our understanding and maybe beyond our ability to comprehend? I would like to attend, please. Possibility to be free from matter, spacetime and known laws/constructs or something even more outlandish? Hell yes! I can't even... The possibility to instantly upgrade my current understanding or even a need to create a whole new model of the multiverse with all new perspectives I would have available. I would even go there if would have a choice to land in a planet populated by humans and stay as I am.

 

[Redfire]

What am I missing here? Option 1 means death. Option 2 means death. I'd go to 3 just to have a shot I guess. Although I could end up in "Planet Eternal Torture" or whatever so I don't know.

If you go to the machine world you will not agonize over whether or not you died. Your copy will. You will be dead. If I copied your body exactly as it is right now and then destroyed the original, you would die, correct? Mind uploading is not any different.

 

[Polaris]

They all sound horrible, except the Sun option; that's just quick and relatively painless death. If I was to pick the least horrible option it would be Machine Planet. Although I think I'd rather die, than to be stuck in an eternal existential dilemma.

The current temporary one is bad enough.

 

[Words]

The etheric planet is for pussies and subjectivists, people who take comfort in their ignorance or take ignorance as an excuse to delude themselves into whatever they want to believe.

What? There is no certainty of death anywhere. Regardless of how you're trying to frame this question, the first two guarantee death and the other one does not. It's pretty simple. It's not a choice between death and delusion of non-death. It's between one possibility vs. a myriad of possibilities.

 

[Rook]

What I posted on Latte's board:

The etheric planet is for pussies and subjectivists, people who take comfort in their ignorance or take ignorance as an excuse to delude themselves into whatever they want to believe.

I also have to contend your statement.
How does the choice to integrate into a machine make you more of a thinker than the choice to interact with another dimension?

A thinker will always choose to explore the unknown, and another dimension is much more unknown and unexplained than the first planet.
I sense some personal bias.

 

[Ex-User (8886)]

only on the living planet I can live (brain cells won't be destroyed), so choice is easy

 

[The Gopher]

Honestly I agree with Dor. Also HEY DOR!! *waves*

I would pick the Etheric planet not because I want to delude myself into believing it would be better (although I would hope that) but because I can't imagine living forever on a robotic planet wondering what would have happened, what was there to be done? I mean sure you could imagine a Daemon world but technically it could be anything. The adventure aspect appeals the most to me.

 

[The Void]

My sense of self is already pretty disturbed, so going to the living planet won't matter much, but seriously, who wanna become a plant?
A machine planet,....
All these time I had been trying to convey the possibility of existence of a duality between the external behaviour and all the processes, and consciousness,
A machine may emulate human behaviours, but it is doubtful if it would be aware of it,
infact it is doubtful that anyone other than me, is conscious or just a robot,
all this stimuli based actions and reactions, can be so mechanical, that consciousness may be just an unnecessary existence, everything may be the same without consciousness,

so if I get digitalized, I may retain all the behaviours, and anyone from an outside perspective,
may even not notice any difference in the analouge me , and the digital me,
but I may infact be completely devoid of consciousness.

So there is a chance that in the machine world I will just die, not remain conscious....

but if I remain conscious, then it is not a matter of thought, if my past self is dead, I am a copy or original, because, my self, dies, re-creates, copies, pastes, all the time,

and even if I am a copy consciousness or not, it doesnt much matter, consciousness is consciousness.....it is of no issue to me, because I am pretty detached from myself anyway...

But since the OP mentions, that the SENSE of self will remain, then that means the consciousness will remain to to sense the self, so by the premise, consciousness will remain, so no death, then probably I can choose the machine world, probably they have internet, and games....to play?

Etheric world can be interesting too, but since anything can happen anywhere,
may be suddenly I will, fall in some hellish dimension, and suffer for 1000 years
then get chased by wierd ghosts and entities, it can turn into a living hell.... but still it could be interesting....

I guess the best will be to get to the machine world, then use their techs to visit the Etheric world or research on it?

 

[doncarlzone]

What I posted on Latte's board:

The machine planet is for thinkers, the sort of people who find the idea of agonising over whether or not they died appealing because it gives them something really interesting to think about.

I did think about it and concluded that I would most likely die, thus not worth it.

If you land on this planet your memories and sense of self will be digitised and your body/brain disposed of, but even though your sense of self still exists the fact that it was copied from another format brings into question whether it's really you or just a copy of your now deceased self.

Imagine if the digilization of yourself was done while you were still alive. If you then die, then the digital copy may live as if you were still alive, however, what you the original perceives, have still ceased to exist. I'm not taking that risk.

 

[Cognisant]

Another thought that occurred to me, the other dimension offered by the etheric planet isn't necessarily a higher one, it might be flatland
Or just an alternate dimension, in some ways novel but not really different.

You're all assuming it would be an adventure.

Would you really risk everything on the possibility that it might be an adventure, really?
Well why not go jump off a bridge, there might be an afterlife...

The machine planet is my obvious choice but I consider the living planet no less valid, indeed for everyone who doesn't get a kick out of existentialism that's what I'd recommend, but with the etheric planet the only thing that is known is that nothing is known, argue with me all you like the fact remains that you're just assuming things to justify your preference for ignorance.

There's three intelligent cultures in one solar system, it's not like they don't communicate, they're not at war, they just happen to have very different lifestyles that precludes them becoming established on each other's planet, the etheric planet is probably barren because any living creature would probably go nuts from having voices in its head all the time.

 

[Base groove]

the etheric planet is probably barren because any living creature would probably go nuts from having voices in its head all the time.

Well why not go jump off a bridge, there might be an afterlife...

Exactly that. It would lead to suicide. The sun is natural death. The other two are a form of undeath basically.

The machines make a copy of your consciousness, assimilate it into its own, and then kill you.

The living planet basically makes you a slave. Utter loss of individuality.

The sun-choice is straight to hell. Etheric planet offers a chance to climb through purgatory.

 

[Reluctantly]

Okay, let's see.

I'll send my cat to the Living Planet. Once it assimilates, I'll have a planet as a friend.

Then I'll go to the Machine Planet and get a new body so living is easier. I don't care about the philosophical aspect. I'm still me whether in flesh or machine. And if I don't get a drink with an umbrella, I swear to God, I will destroy the universe.

Then I'll send machines designed to go into The Etheric Planet and figure out what the crap is going on. If I can't, I'll clone my mind and go into the planet to see what transpires. If I disappear, my clone will awake and I'll continue to try to figure out what's going on.

If all else fails, I'll throw rocks at the Etheric people because they are obviously assholes that think they are better than me.

 

[The Gopher]

To be fair in my last post I said things in the wrong order, it's the fact if I didn't go I would end up like reluctantly constantly wondering and trying to find out something that I can't that would drive me insane. I would prefer to know the truth than to wonder.

 

[Jennywocky]

Another thought that occurred to me, the other dimension offered by the etheric planet isn't necessarily a higher one, it might be flatland
Or just an alternate dimension, in some ways novel but not really different.

You're all assuming it would be an adventure.

Would you really risk everything on the possibility that it might be an adventure, really?
Well why not go jump off a bridge, there might be an afterlife...

Instead of assuming we didn't think it through or that we might not like our choice, why not do something novel and just accept that we voted for it and respect our decision?

you sound like someone's naggy grandmother, in how you continually bitch about those who picked Door #3.

 

[Hadoblado]

Wow there really aren't many for the machine planet are there? Surprising.

It's a really good question though. Tricky.

 

[Architect]

Wow there really aren't many for the machine planet are there? Surprising.

Not really I think. The wording and set-up for the post favors the enlightened planet. Especially with a group of Fe inferior INTP's and ilk. I wanted to choose enlightened planet but was honest and took Machine, since that (or a variation) looks like the clear path that mankind is on.

 

[Hadoblado]

So it's just myself, Cog and Archie for #teamachine?

Crazy.

 

[Cognisant]

Instead of assuming we didn't think it through or that we might not like our choice, why not do something novel and just accept that we voted for it and respect our decision?

you sound like someone's naggy grandmother, in how you continually bitch about those who picked Door #3.

Alright I'll concede wanting to know what's behind door #3 as a valid reason, but I'm not backing down on the stance that anybody who thinks they know what they're getting themselves into isn't displaying an alarming lack of critical thinking skills.

That's just who I am and I make no apology for it, instead I'll go build a suicide booth disguised as a confessional and have a button inside that says "If you want to know if you'll go to heaven press here"

 

[Words]

You're all assuming it would be an adventure.

No, we're not. We're assuming it's not guaranteed death, which is what all the other choices is about.

Choices are:

1. Certain Death
2. Certain Death
3. Uncertain Death
4. Certain Death

This shouldn't be difficult to understand.

 

[Cognisant]

Death and taxes are always certain.

 

[Redfire]

For God's sake, why isn't anybody commenting on what Words said? Do you all disagree? Do you think you will somehow keep living if you choose the robot world?

 

[Polaris]

You're all assuming it would be an adventure.

Would you really risk everything on the possibility that it might be an adventure, really?
Well why not go jump off a bridge, there might be an afterlife...

The machine planet is my obvious choice but I consider the living planet no less valid, indeed for everyone who doesn't get a kick out of existentialism that's what I'd recommend, but with the etheric planet the only thing that is known is that nothing is known, argue with me all you like the fact remains that you're just assuming things to justify your preference for ignorance.

There's three intelligent cultures in one solar system, it's not like they don't communicate, they're not at war, they just happen to have very different lifestyles that precludes them becoming established on each other's planet, the etheric planet is probably barren because any living creature would probably go nuts from having voices in its head all the time.

So it's just myself, Cog and Archie for #teamachine?

Crazy.

Apparently there's some reader's bias here or The Void, myself and Reluctantly all have invisible writing.

Edit: also, machine world is possibly only physical death, your sense of self remains; it is just uncertain whether you are a copy or not.

 

[Architect]

So it's just myself, Cog and Archie for #teamachine

Go teaM!

 

[Reluctantly]

Apparently there's some reader's bias here or The Void, myself and Reluctantly all have invisible writing.

We're just a schizophrenic glitch in the minds of Hado, Cog, and Arch. So it actually makes perfect sense that they would leave us out because we are them. Eventually they will learn to accept us or mentally bleed us out with medications. Either one seems to work.

Edit: also, machine world is possibly only physical death, your sense of self remains; it is just uncertain whether you are a copy or not.

It reminds me of cylons from Battlestar Galactica. No one seemed to argue whether or not when they resurrected, if they were still the same person. The continuity from one form to another was still intact; their sense of self remained, as you say. I'll argue that the Machine Planet is this same idea and we'd still be the same person.

 

[Pyropyro]

I chose Etheric basically since I don't know what is its endgame. Who knows what I can learn from them? Machine and Living Planets are realizable on Earth anyways.

I imagined the etheric planet to be a Daemon World now some people will think that's awesome, but most of you won't.

If can fight my way to Daemon Princehood then why not? I'm okay with serving under Tzeentch but I heard Nurgle has great dental care benefits.

 

[Absurdity]

I'm puzzled by the popularity of the etheric planet as well. The other dimension could very well be one of unending torment.

The sun is the only option that offers complete certainty as to the outcome, and thus has a limit to its downside.

 

[Hadoblado]

Apparently there's some reader's bias here or The Void, myself and Reluctantly all have invisible writing.

My apologies to you. Less reader's bias than a mixture of skim-reading and premature conclusion. I saw a total of three people voting that option on the poll, and assumed that the first two people I read of that opinion constituted the remainder. My bad.