Mozart is overrated

[~~~]

D. None of the above poll options.

 

[Jennywocky]

I appreciate the comments by @fissionesque and some others in the thread. I did my time learning Mozart and Bach; I thought precision and cleanness are both good words for them. Some of Bach (particularly the Inventions for piano) are like clocks/machines just clicking cleanly away, and I know exactly where the music is going and could make it up as I go and be correct. I can appreciate that for what it is, but it doesn't necessarily inspire me -- I like structure + passion melded together, especially with twists I didn't quite expect and underlying structures that I can tease out of the chaos, so things aren't quite as chaotic as they appeared and there is still beauty among the dissonance.

(Like Dukas, Mahler, Bruckner, some Holst, etc. I can even appreciate Wagner, as bombastic as he can become at times. I think a lot of musical efforts in the classical realm nowadays get poured into the film scoring industry; I really enjoyed Don Davis' "Matrix" score, which was atonal in spots and had its own rhythm and structure but was still repeated as motifs woven throughout the score. I think these kinds of things intersect with my life philosophy, which has order and chaos woven together, bittersweetness as a dominant emotion, and lots of texture/complexity to sort through.)

Anyway, I think Mozart was a genius in terms of how quickly and efficiently his mind worked, and how much he produced. It just doesn't do much for me on the personal level.

 

[fissionesque]

@Jennywocky

You may be surprised about the degree of emotion in some of Bach's pieces. For instance, the Partitas sometimes border on romanticism. The Well-Tempered Clavier also has a lot of very expressive pieces. Some of Bach pieces have harmony that isn't seen until Beethoven and later. Lots of diminished 7th's and some hugely dissonant cords that are almost undefinable in that context. You may also want to check out some of his Cantatas. His toccatas (by nature) are very improvisatory. The trend to play Bach as clockwork with no emotional quality is a pretty modern concept. There is a lot of room for rubato in much of it, and since our modern piano can accommodate for more dynamic changes, changes that are not notated in baroque music, you get a huge freedom of creative interpration when playing Bach that you don't always get when playing more modern pieces.

 

[Jennywocky]

@Jennywocky

You may be surprised about the degree of emotion in some of Bach's pieces. For instance, the Partitas sometimes border on romanticism. The Well-Tempered Clavier also has a lot of very expressive pieces. Some of Bach pieces have harmony that isn't seen until Beethoven and later. Lots of diminished 7th's and some hugely dissonant cords that are almost undefinable in that context. You may also want to check out some of his Cantatas. His toccatas (by nature) are very improvisatory. The trend to play Bach as clockwork with no emotional quality is a pretty modern concept. There is a lot of room for rubato in much of it, and since our modern piano can accommodate for more dynamic changes, changes that are not notated in baroque music, you get a huge freedom of creative interpration when playing Bach that you don't always get when playing more modern pieces.

Thanks for that info. When I was playing the Bach inventions, mostly my instructor was using it to discipline my fingers (it makes fine material for working on clean attacks and release), but I always tried to incorporate dynamic arc (based on the melodic line) where I could. I'll have to check out some of his other work that I haven't yet been exposed to.

 

[Architect]

Bach is a 'musician's composer'. He's the Elvis Presley of classical music (as in he is The King), and his music has an emotional range as great as any. I hate hearing people compare his music to mathematics as it is a shallow comparison. I recommend listening to all of the Cantatas, it's an emotional journey, and end with the Passions.

Mozart was an incredibly talented hack. He didn't write good music until late in life, and his best stuff unfortunately begins with the late piano concertos until the final completed piece, the Clarinet Concerto. The Requiem demonstrates some true maturity, but was unfortunately unfinished.

Chopin was a greater composer than Mozart in my estimation, but unfortunately he never progressed beyond the piano so will never have that stature.

 

[Jennywocky]

Bach is a 'musician's composer'. He's the Elvis Presley of classical music (as in he is The King), and his music has an emotional range as great as any. I hate hearing people compare his music to mathematics as it is a shallow comparison. I recommend listening to all of the Cantatas, it's an emotional journey, and end with the Passions.

Again, I appreciate direction to some of his work that you find inspiring; I would just be careful when you bring emotions and subjective reactions to particular works of art.

If I've learned anything in life, what is moving and emotionally meaningful for one can be entirely absent for another. I've been surprised sometimes at how things that truly move me seem entirely missed by another. People just respond differently.

 

[Architect]

Again, I appreciate direction to some of his work that you find inspiring; I would just be careful when you bring emotions and subjective reactions to particular works of art.

If I've learned anything in life, what is moving and emotionally meaningful for one can be entirely absent for another. I've been surprised sometimes at how things that truly move me seem entirely missed by another. People just respond differently.

True, however music is designed to elicit specific responses in the listener, and it seems to have universal nature that sidesteps boundaries. At any rate I haven't noticed that people have especially different responses to any given piece; the Fauré Requiem is given to one small range of emotions, while Nielson's Symphony #5 clearly says another, where they begin with qualitatively similar ideas which may not be apparent.

At any rate I digress, Bach ...

• Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach is delightful, and contains seeds of ideas that worked into many of his best pieces.
• For keyboard works I'd start with The Goldberg Variations. See if you can get the set by Glenn Gould, which includes both his famous early version, and him playing again at the end of his life. Hugely instructional on the impact of interpretation (almost sound like different pieces), and you see how an artist matures. If you do tell me which one you prefer, and why.
• Cantatas - start with the justly famous "Ich habe genug" BWV 82

 

[Wolf18]

J.S. Bach is much better. Both Mozart and Bach are both fun to play. I love Bach for his logic and patterns and hidden puzzles. I like Mozart for his 40th and his "Jupiter."

 

[Infinite]

No, I don't think Mozart is overrated. A hell of a lot is lost through time. Context is required to fully appreciate how revolutionary he was. He spliced styles together that normally wouldn't go, put he made them work. Thought of ideas no one did. His music may have that style, which some may see as childish, but that was probably his personality shining through. It doesn't make it any less brilliant. It may not seem too special now, because artists have been copying his work since he became known.

 

[Starswirl]

His "Requiem" is probably the best, rivaled only by Verdi's rendition.

"Don Giovanni" is utter genius, the model for what opera would become in later years.

 

[Tuevon]

The poll is quite biassed. There's a huge space between "Meh" and "Best in the world."

As for me, I have to vote Meh because it's the closest that I can find.

 

[walfin]

I like his compositions but they're a bit kiddy.

That said, the twelve movements of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star rock.

I'm for Pachelbel myself. Peace and tranquility.

 

[carla]

I voted he's ok. "the world's greatest composer" is a subjective matter

 

[zxc]

Again, I appreciate direction to some of his work that you find inspiring; I would just be careful when you bring emotions and subjective reactions to particular works of art.

If I've learned anything in life, what is moving and emotionally meaningful for one can be entirely absent for another. I've been surprised sometimes at how things that truly move me seem entirely missed by another. People just respond differently.

This is spot on. The subjectivity of experience, especially with music and artistic expression in general, is something about which I have learnt the past few years myself.

As for Mozart, not my cup of tea.