Moods

[loveofreason]

... if you try to push the emotions through, or stifle them, or ignore or deny them, it all gets screwed up.

INTPs are weird...
you have mood swings...

Im even tempered, when my mood does change its because of specific things and goes back to normal as soon as what caused it disapears, whatever it is, it doesnt linger.

I can conclude that we are all retarded emotionally .

Well, excepting Dissident, are we all moody and screwed up emotionally?

This has been on my mind because I've been in a right shitful mood for oh, nearly a year? I've written about emotional latency - the inability to recognise and process emotions in real time, now I'm attacking the rotten feeling problem from another angle. Moods.

I can safely say that in many ways I'm childish - I get hold of a mood and don't let go. If what I've been told is true, then actual moods pass rapidly - in around a half hour - when all is well. Moods aren't meant to linger, they're emotional weather.

So what happens when someone is angry for days, even weeks or longer. Or constantly overjoyed, or constantly frustrated...

(is this a consequence of the latency issue? Is it too tempting, once a feeling is actually grasped, to keep on hanging on? Or is it more that the mood arises from confusion. ie: I don't know what I feel but I suspect I should be feeling something - my emotional failure is so frustrating!)

By sullenly grabbing anger and holding on to it against the passage of moods, I exhaust myself. I become emotionally toxic because I'm creating a blockage. Things bank up and go rotten. Oh the mess if someone inadvertantly triggers this inferno of poison! (Hehe, classic irrational outburst from the normally cool 'unemotional' INTP.)

So what do others have to say about moods?

 

[Aphasia]

For someone who's seen as cool and collected (I stress the word 'seen'), I get really angry and I don't forgive or forget easily. Once a bad mood sticks to me, it stays there for an average of a day or so (being retentive). I don't feel 'happy' for nearly as long, wonder why. Perhaps negative feelings are less transient due to how they are perceived/ processed (?) (negatives are noticed more than positives, humans not satisfied with what they have, etc,)

I'm not sure about the latency. My logic dictates that it's pointless for me to fume and smoke around, but I still do anyway. I do know that I dam up emotions during undesirable events and let them loose violently after something seemingly unimportant happens. (similar to loveofreason on this part).

Added question: Sometimes I feel outgoing and friendly (by my standards), and sometimes I don't want people to even come close to me. It's somewhat loosely related to my current mood. Opinions/ experiences/ anything else?

 

[Ogion]

Hmm, sure shorttime emotions i do have. Like anger, when someone talk bullshit and thinks of himself as the great enlightened one. But moods, harbouring emotions longterm, be depressed or something, i don't have that.
Am i supposed to?But then, my life gives me no hardships for the last years (real hardship i never had, i think).

Ogion

 

[loveofreason]

I think I'm trying to say that harbouring negative moods is a childish handicap of mine. It is supremely unhealthy. The digestive analogy that vrecknidj posted in another thread really helped clarify that for me.

I am curious to know if others experience this state. Aphasia mentions the bad moods cling to him. It takes energy to sustain moods beyond their natural transit time, so I'd be curious to know if this brings about tiredness/exhaustion. It does for me.

I'm fascinated by the whole food/mood analogy really, and want to explore that.

 

[Vrecknidj]

A very good friend of mine, a very thoughtful, insightful, courageous and wise friend, ..., oh, and the first other INTP I met, who also happened to have been the one to introduce me to Jung, cautioned me once on moods. She pointed out that, especially as the INTP's feeling function is mostly unconscious, that we have to be on guard against being possessed by our moods because we don't swiftly escape them.

Whether positive or negative, we're particularly prone to some of the side-effects: excessive bitchiness, mania, etc.

And, honestly, from my teen years, I remember getting caught in moods, and I remember, within, thinking things like "I really would like to stay in this mood a long time," and whatnot. Even, sometimes, when the mood was rather gloomy.

I have, since her caution, been careful. Feelings are important, but, moods seem to be more captivating.

Dave

 

[Thread Killer]

I can be pretty moody, melancholy, whatever. I can experience this vividly in my privacy but all of that shuts off suddenly when I'm around people. Then I become stabalized. I read that INTPs hide their feelings to protect themselves as well as others. I think that sums the whole thing up. Sure, we feel but most of us, I don't think, like to show ourselves as sensitive in the presence of most people.

 

[Mischz]

I think I'm trying to say that harbouring negative moods is a childish handicap of mine. It is supremely unhealthy. The digestive analogy that vrecknidj posted in another thread really helped clarify that for me.

I am curious to know if others experience this state. Aphasia mentions the bad moods cling to him. It takes energy to sustain moods beyond their natural transit time, so I'd be curious to know if this brings about tiredness/exhaustion. It does for me.

I'm fascinated by the whole food/mood analogy really, and want to explore that.

I am rather cheerful. ^^ Though sometimes I come across as being 'moody' it's usually because I'm indifferent to the issue or really tired.

When I am really moody, which I can be at times, it doesn't last long (excepting major life events like deaths/break-ups). I'll attempt to identify the source and 'solve' it as much as I can. Reasoning with myself helps to dissipate the 'negative' states.

As for the food/mood analogy you mentioned I am not sure what you mean (link?). But if you are talking about how food elevates moods - exercise and a whole lot of other stuff that affects the chemical balance in our brains does too. 1101 to Neurotransmitters!

 

[Kuu]

I'm not sure about the latency. My logic dictates that it's pointless for me to fume and smoke around, but I still do anyway. I do know that I dam up emotions during undesirable events and let them loose violently after something seemingly unimportant happens. (similar to loveofreason on this part).

Yeah this is me. Like loveofreason said... "inferno of poison" though this state is quite rare (once in a couple of years or so...)

Still if you could define me in a word it would be ennui. Most happiness is fleeting, lasting a day or a week at most. Anger lasts around a day, but I'll give you a medal if you do manage to get me angry, I'm real good at sublimating this particular emotion. What really, really sticks with me is sadness (mostly involving loss) and disappointment and frustration... these can last for several years... Indeed, I think most disappointment is permanent, like loss of trust. I do not forget and it's really hard to forgive.

My terrible insane outbursts of negative emotion usually happen because of frustration with something/someone... I think that is what kills us INTPs most. Our T/F axis gets fucked up because things are just absolutely out of control and comprehension, despite all the energy put into solving the problems... I feel insufficient, incomplete, impotent. Physical and intellectual helplessness, powerlessness. Yes, impotence is perhaps the only thing I really fear.

But I do have to say that despite my apparent emotionally cool stability, I do constantly vent all those bottled up things by being passive-aggressive.

Added question: Sometimes I feel outgoing and friendly (by my standards), and sometimes I don't want people to even come close to me. It's somewhat loosely related to my current mood. Opinions/ experiences/ anything else?

Yes it is related to mood. Usually if I have an issue, there is a specific cause or person, and I do not want to see anyone or do anything while I am dealing with it. I need to focus myself on the issue, and cannot spend my precious energy on socialization. It can be a nasty vicious circle, because I go over and over and over the issue and my mind just complicates it and gives up newer problems instead of solutions... a downward spiral of frustration that usually fades away instead of being resolved. On the other hand, if faced with the conflicting person/situation, the energy drain is such that it could easily trigger the emotional explosion much earlier...

I'm only outgoing and friendly when nothing is bothering me and I'm feeling positive about myself and people and life (almost never). Or the more common case when I get fed up with my loneliness, but then I usually seek a specific person, and if the company or intellectual stimulation I demand is denied or unsatisfactory (most of the time), I just get disappointed and go back to being lonely and melancholic.

*Sigh* I am all emotionally messed up...

 

[Olba]

In my case, there are rarely any mood swings. Usually they are just quick bursts of annoyance that last only for a few seconds.

But then there's the state of depressive helplessness. When everything just feels boring, repeatitive and simple. It's not something I like. When it hits, I just want to go and sleep. I don't feel like doing anything, I lack motivation and confidence. This is usually the time that I start to wonder whether I'll ever make it through the matriculation exams or whether I'll ever make it to the university I want to go to or whether I'll ever find a proper job or whether I'll live the next twenty years happily. Which really isn't stuff I tend to think about.

And strangely enough, yesterday I found myself getting annoyed while visiting a super market. The reason for my annoyance was the lack of headphones. I had deliberately left them home as I intended to buy some in-ear phones. But the market only had Philips one and I've been taught for a long time to never buy anything that has Philips on it. So there I was, staring at the selection. There was a bunch of Philips in-ears, Koss Porta Pros (which I already own), some random on-ear phones and then an empty space that read "Creative EP 630, 19,90€". I wanted those, they're supposedly pretty good in-ears.

 

[loveofreason]

As for the food/mood analogy you mentioned I am not sure what you mean (link?). But if you are talking about how food elevates moods - exercise and a whole lot of other stuff that affects the chemical balance in our brains does too. 1101 to Neurotransmitters!

Actually I was adapting something Vrecknidj mentioned in
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=265
Though it was originally about the digestive process as an analogy for emotional processing, I'm extending it to my experience of moods - in that as much as I don't let moods pass at their own pace, rather screwing with the process by holding on. Picture an emotional colon full of toxic, rotten moods.

Seems some of us have similar experiences and others have no trouble rapidly changing/letting go of moods.

But yes, you're correct that actual foods do have an impact on mood, and vice versa. It's funny I wasn't actually thinking about the real mood/food relationship. That's worthy a thread of it's own.

 

[Radioactive_Springtime]

I don't know if this can truly tie in to the topic, but after a couple years of horrible mood-swings I became, for the most part, a nihilist. It was easier to completely disregard all meaning in life and stay in a thick depression like state than try and deal with my emotions. Recently I was coaxed out of nihilistic tendencies by a group of friends. Since then I have entered into a relationship, which has caused a couple problems for me.

I tend to think up hypothetical situations in which something good or bad can happen and I find myself having an actual albeit probably muted emotional reaction to an event thats all in my head. Probably goes with the subconscious moods thing.

Plus Im terrified that the cycle will repeat itself

 

[Ermine]

Moods? I love them and hate them at the same time. I sometimes wish I was more emotional so I can feel more alive (relatively speaking) and can relate with people better. Then I start relishing my cool-headed logical side. Then there's the dreaded emotional outbursts that I'd rather deny, but have to sort out, for me and everyone else involved.


Emotions are like gasoline. When under control, it's very useful and beneficial. When it's not, it's scary. It explodes, pollutes, and hurts others.

 

[Jesin]

I don't know if this can truly tie in to the topic, but after a couple years of horrible mood-swings I became, for the most part, a nihilist. It was easier to completely disregard all meaning in life and stay in a thick depression like state than try and deal with my emotions.

Nihilism doesn't have to be depressing. Don't be apathetic, be carefree!

 

[keanne32]

Being relatively withdrawn when with people, I fell under the impression that I was good at keeping my emotions intact. A few days ago, my ENFP friend and I had had this talk about the nature of people [our friends, specifically]. I told her that I found her charming at best, and how rare it was to find people who were genuinely altruistic as her, but that she was stubborn sometimes.

I was used to these kinds of conversation turning into, "the thing I admire most about you is your intellect" [I don't know why, but everytime somebody says this, it irks me. I mean, being deemed intelligent, and I mean deemed because this doesn't exactly have to be true, is an honor in its own respect. But I find that in conversations such as that, it was practically superficial to have mentioned.] But my friend caught me off-guard when she told me, in addition, that I was also quite moody. I asked her, "Am I really? I haven't been exactly verbal about my moods." To which she replied just how easy it was to tell when I was in a dark mood, or when I was happy.

It was really surprising [both in a good way and bad], to have been told that I was not as impenetrable as I thought I was. lol. :]

Most of the time, though, my moods go awry, which I find to be extremely annoying especially when I'm dealing with more serious matters. I accredit it to our [extremely] inferior Fe function. But then again, maybe it's just the hormones. ;]

 

[Wisp]

I'm a moody bastard sometimes...

And I'm depressingly cheerful at others.

But I'm usually a cynic.

I think I'm insane! But that's a good thing.

 

[tesseracter]

All this time, I thought that even-temperedness was a trait of INTP. But, when I think about it, I bet I was moodier in high school. So, it must be something that I developed. As of now, most of my friends tell me that's the trait they like most about me - that I'm even-tempered. I always associated "boring" with that description, but now I really like that about myself.

 

[Ermine]

For me, it's either off or on. I have the emotional depth of a 10 year old. I'm either levelheaded or having an unintentional outburst.

 

[Jordan~]

I do recognise that - externally, at least. Emotions are usually active just below the surface when I'm level-headed, and those unintentional outbursts are what happens when they get strong enough to bubble to the surface.

 

[Saturnine]

I've always been pretty moody. I tend to get easily ticked off, or overly emotional sometimes. I hardly ever cry, but when I do it's realllly bad. I bottle things up too much.

 

[Jordan~]

I recognise the crying thing - I tend to sob etc.. Sometimes I deliberately cry for a good reason, like out of happiness or at the end of a series (I do that) sometimes, because it's a good emotional release. I also sing for emotional release.

 

[Saturnine]

Wow...I sing too. Never in front of people, but it does release a lot of emotion. I've also become obsessed with learning how to sing, as an escape. I study singers voices and try to understand their technique as best I can, because It makes me feels good.

 

[Jordan~]

I never sing in front of people, either. I don't study technique or anything - I might if I liked trained voices, but I prefer a natural, untamed quality to a voice - one of the reasons I so love Joanna Newsom, it's the sound of someone singing rather than the sound of someone trying to sing.

 

[Saturnine]

One obsession I wish I didn't have. I used to just be able to enjoy listening to people sing without thinking about it and it was much more enjoyable lol

 

[Radioactive_Springtime]

I force myself into physical exhaustion for emotional release.

 

[fullerene]

feeling shitty how, exactly? Trying to distinguish whether you're sick of life, or fed up with one of the principles you held to, or have a nagging anger at someone, or anything else might help you get to the root cause of it all (unless, of course, you already know that and just didn't want to share it, of course).

I also tend to hold onto moods longer than I should. It can be rather spiteful if it's caused by anger if someone hurt me in some major way (which really doesn't happen very much, as even a text msg I got from one of my friends today was 'what can someone do to hurt you?'), which just bothers me more because I know it's spiteful, and I get annoyed at myself for holding onto spite, but because I'm honest refuse to lie and say whatever bothered me doesn't just to patch up the friendship. I can't control my feelings enough to put whatever behind me like that, so they tend to stick around longer than they should.

I personally think that my moods are all caused by reasons, though. I almost always know exactly why the feelings that cause them are there, and bad moods don't go away until I finally fix it. I think that that's why they tend to last, too... my "self", whatever that thing is that's not in my conscious mind but still acts logically when it sets off whatever chemicals shift my mood, isn't satisfied until the cause for the distress is gone. Not that they're always reasonable. I think its part of being a person that your self has soft-spots in it that hurt more than it's logically valid to, but the soft-spots always act within reason... the same things that illogically hurt me when someone brings them up still illogically hurt if someone brings them up tomorrow--barring any life changing events. My guess is that the average person's moods pass over after half an hour because their selves either don't remember or don't recognize the problem, or 'how big a deal it is' changes quickly. For me, it takes new evidence or new experience to make me reevaluate how important something is to me. Barring that, my moods are pretty constant too.

 

[loveofreason]

feeling shitty how, exactly? Trying to distinguish whether you're sick of life, or fed up with one of the principles you held to, or have a nagging anger at someone, or anything else might help you get to the root cause of it all (unless, of course, you already know that and just didn't want to share it, of course).

That is part of an ongoing investigation.

If I gave you an answer today, it would be inaccurate tomorrow.

 

[fullerene]

haha wait a second, wait a second. You're feeling pretty shitty all the time... and that worries you because you feel like you hold onto moods too long and the "normal" mood passes after a short while... but the reason why exactly you're feeling shitty changes from day to day?

Are you sure that feeling shitty is the mood, and not the collection of moods? I know I at least have absolutely no memory for detail, and very very little for anything specific. Everything in my past tends to blend into general themes like "oh I was definitely upset for like these 4 years... before around this time, I didn't actually know I could get angry... these past couple months have been some of the happiest I've ever had... etc". Are you sure that it's your mood that's lasted for the past year? It might just be that your memory also blends together a collection of various negative moods, which themselves are changing at a relatively normal pace (whatever "normal" is even... I don't know how they can set a standard on feelings like that). Just food for thought... there could be nothing wrong with your moods at all.

 

[Radioactive_Springtime]

By scott! he may just have something!

 

[loveofreason]

New information!

*Falls upon text *

haha wait a second, wait a second. You're feeling pretty shitty all the time... and that worries you because you feel like you hold onto moods too long and the "normal" mood passes after a short while... but the reason why exactly you're feeling shitty changes from day to day?

Specific irritants can and do change, but the 'investigation' I refer to is the effort to discover just what underlies the fact that I'm so irritable in the first place. So, I may be wrong, but I don't think the reason changes from day to day, just the target of my bile.

And I can't really give you that reason, because I don't know my self.

It's a classic onion-skin dilemma. The more I peel away at layers, the less is revealed, until eventually I find there's nothing at the core. But there must be something! There must be a reason I'm like this! My essential failure to understand myself (in relation to others), just fuels the anger. Imagine decades of working on a problem with no solution! - just ever more elemental manifestations of the problem. I'm smashing mirrors here - the more I smash the more jagged reflections I'm getting, and they're driving me insane.

Having said that, you do point out some brilliantly helpful stuff.

Are you sure that feeling shitty is the mood, and not the collection of moods? I know I at least have absolutely no memory for detail, and very very little for anything specific. Everything in my past tends to blend into general themes like "oh I was definitely upset for like these 4 years... before around this time, I didn't actually know I could get angry... these past couple months have been some of the happiest I've ever had... etc". Are you sure that it's your mood that's lasted for the past year? It might just be that your memory also blends together a collection of various negative moods, which themselves are changing at a relatively normal pace (whatever "normal" is even... I don't know how they can set a standard on feelings like that). Just food for thought... there could be nothing wrong with your moods at all.

Yes, it is very likely a collection of moods, as in the many heads of the hydra.

I too relate to the past in the way you describe.

We've created the question Why would anyone's life be composed of a succession of bad moods?

Just predisposed to experience the negative? ...why?

Ultimately there is no reason that holding on to moods and blending of similar moods cannot both be happening.


*You know, I think I'm just describing melancholy.....

 

[fullerene]

Believe it or not, I think I understand and relate better to the first half of your post than I do the second. If irritant's change from day to day, then I don't think moods are your problem at all. A mood created by feelings of annoyance or anger or depression or whatever negative feeling it might be is the natural response to something you find annoying, or angering, or depressing. I think you can evaluate how "reasonable" these responses are based on various irritants... which I assume you'd want to do, because I think reasonable consistency and avoiding hypocrisy is a common intp trait. Some irritants you may have a right to be irritated with, and some you may not. In reality it's probably a mix of the two. I think looking for "why you're so irritable" is the root question, you're right... but I don't think moods have much to do with it.

So why are you so irritable in the first place? Well... I assume you mean "why do things irritate me more than the 'average person'," because everyone gets irritated and it wouldn't bother you if there was nothing more to it. I can think of a few possibilities. The first is that you just happen to come across more irritating things than most people--it's very unlikely, because we all live in the same world and your family probably experiences the world (physically) similar to how you do--but it's possible. Another is that you're a bad judge of what's irritable and what's not. By that I mean that your instinctual reaction may be to get angry or upset by things that you have no right to get upset at on any reasonable grounds--slightly more likely... but also not that great because intps are usually the most reasonable and consistent in beliefs. The other side of that, then, may be that less reasonable people are bad judges of what's irritable and what's not. Perhaps the world is filled with irritants, and things that ought to irritate... but the vast majority of people in your life aren't irritated by them because they don't perceive as cearly as you do (this is easy to test because you can explain the things that irritate you, and as long as they're pretty logical themselves they would agree if that's the case). Finally, the irritants in the world, the ones that ought to irritate, that are perceived both by you and others around you as irritating, may just be deeper than the average person realizes. If it's typical to your nature to dig for the root of problems and find solutions and reasons, you're likely to spend a lot more time dwelling on the things that irritate everybody, while their less-analytical natures will lead them to forget about it and go do or think about something they find more important.

Basically though... I think it comes down to a question of essence. People might talk of something's "essence," but when it comes to relating the topic to other problems, people think and act as if it doesn't exist... or at least, doesn't affect anything about the object (or person) when we perceive it (them). I personally don't think that everyone, at their core, is identical. We may share common traits that make us human, but we may also be very different, unique creatures in our own way. If you're "predisposed to experience the negative" (which I've really been wondering, off and on, these past few years whether I am too, so don't take it personally), whether it's because you become irritated by illogical irritants, become irritated every time there's a logical irritant, or dwell on irritants in thought for longer than other people, or something else that I couldn't conceive of... it's probably a question of essence. It's just one of those qualities that makes you you, and separates you from somebody else.

 

[loveofreason]

As you describe essence strikes a chord. Despite it all (the analysis, possibilities etc) I can't help but feel that beneath it somewhere is a hidden reality, far beyond reach and completely disguised by the complex miasma of symptoms. Mood is just an angle, a facet. The light (truth) has been so many times refracted, there is now no knowing the source of the problem.

But I fear we've wandered now off-topic... I'll start a fresh thread to pick up another angle.

 

[fullerene]

mm... if I understand you, I pretty much just have to say sorry, but I think the only suggestion I have to what you're describing now comes from my religion--the one in about which I said in the related section that the world makes no sense without. That would say that the essence of humanity, which was created flawless, was corrupted almost immediately after creation, and there's not a single part to any person which is actually the way it was originally (the way it should be)... but different parts of a person's "being" have been stained to different degrees, and no two people are stained identically. This creates almost all the problems in the world, causes people to suppress reality and think, feel, and act out of tune with it, and is responsible for a couple other major things that don't really apply here. Short story... if I'm understanding you right, from this angle of moods your view of the world and the way you feel are stained in such a way that makes you see and feel the world like you do.

That theory has, at least, properly explained everything that has ever made me really upset. I know it's not popular, and if this were any other forum I would expect people to get mad for mentioning it, but I think you guys are a little more open to possibilities and I'd feel bad for quite a long time if that would give you your "eureka!" moment and I clammed it up to keep people from getting offended.

 

[loveofreason]

I'm not offended. Nor am I christian.

I take the view that truth is truth regardless of the language used to convey it. To my mind all religions are cultural tools; tools with which to manage the ineffable at their most refined and political fortunes at their most gross. The value and product of religion lies completely in the hands of the one who wields it.

I long ago gave up accepting any culturally molded experience of the numinous, much preferring the authenticity of my interface with nature. This does not mean I don't in some way agree with you.

I observe that we all inherit 'sin' or 'stain', in the christian language, from the generations before. I watch myself passing it on to my children. This fact, that I can observe the injuries to spirit sustained by my offspring; sustained by my own hand; this fact is one of the things that influences my perpetual bad mood.

I essentially fail. That is, in essence, I fail to do justice to the truth I observe. I have failed to lessen the stain and every day my children grow less bright.

One cannot bring the full manifestations of pure energy into the material realm. This angers me.

I would have responded to your topic, but did not because I could not adequately express myself, and still have not done justice to the depth with which I regard the subject. My command of language is inadequate.

 

[fullerene]

It's cool... I didn't really expect a response, and I wasn't even sure that was what you were looking for. I just had a strong hunch that it was, based I think mostly on the topic itself and some of the things that only came out when we diverted from it (mainly the first post on this page), and decided it was a bad idea to hold back because its culturally tabooed.

After that though, I'm almost sure that that's the truth you're looking for/experiencing. Everything you've now described that's bothering you is (unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean still) identical to the biblical conception of human sin. Essentially failing... not doing justice to the truth you know... pouring energy into a problem and seeing no material progress... these are all ideas thousands of years old.

So then, I ask what is your purpose in asking other people for their angles on these related manifestations of the problem? I could be wrong, but I would presume that you're hoping someone else will say something somewhat accidentally that helps you refine your view on the situation so that you can find a different place to pour your energy into, because whatever you've been trying hasn't fixed it. If you "in essence, fail to do justice to the truth you observe" already, what reason is there to expect that a different angle, even if you find one, will yield results if you pour energy into it?

I'm really not trying to sound pessimistic. I'm not. Searching for another root cause to your problems asking people related questions and mining their responses for material that could help you understand yourself, and getting upset at pouring energy into a problem with no tangible results rings loud bells inside my head though. I just ended up a little mad, a lot disappointed, drained of energy, and borderline hopeless after attacking the issue from as many sides as I could. If you exhaust the experience of everyone you have contact with and the only conclusion you can possibly draw is "it's just the way i am, essentially incapable and weak"... what happens then?

 

[loveofreason]

Good question. And well perceived.

May have something to do with being stubborn.

May be the reason for my constant anger and chronic fatigue.

This is an intractable problem, and it won't/hasn't yet yielded, but every bit of new data, every new angle, adds to the composition and to my comprehension of the nature of the problem. It is actually a search for the right question, which is why I'm a little uncomfortable addressing it like this instead of in my usual oblique manner. (If someone actually guesses what I'm trying to get at, and calls me out as you have done, then I actually have to reveal that I don't fully understand the nature of the problem).

I'm so uncertain of what it is I'm asking that I'm not comfortable attempting to ask it. But peripheral symptoms can be identified and discussed, and through reading of other people's experiences I can at least ascertain if I'm dealing with something unique or with something that can be found in the great storehouse of common human experience.

Does that make sense?

Actually I'm not sure what I'd do if I ever identified the right question and unlocked the answer. I'd have no more reason for being?

And yes, I'm always searching for gems (mining), but until your comment it hadn't actually occurred to me that I may be exhausting the human resource. I can see me now, rampaging Godzilla-like, overturning human stones for the brilliant meaty grist of insight clamped to the earthy underbelly of their minds. Something I love about turning over stones - never know when something's going to shine.

 

[fullerene]

*blush & giggle* was that an oblique compliment? Awesome godzilla-picture by the way... I have a strong feeling I'm going to have to use that talking to people in the future, if you don't mind. It's beautiful.

and hmm... well if the italicized part does make sense (to me), then I'm not so sure it makes sense (that is, being helpful) to investigate. Here's why. Also for the record, I'm not sure of this at all, and I wouldn't have probably mentioned it at all if I had anything better to say except "yes, you are making sense to me." I figure you can decide if it's good advice or not... so for the sake of keeping the conversation going...

Suppose that it is something unique that you're dealing with (which, if you couldn't tell, I don't think it is). There are only two effects that I can think of in investigating. The first is that you're likely to become even more upset and depressed over the fact that you're alone. Regardless of intp stereotypes, we all need at least some close relationships and reading between the lines of peoples' posts I'm pretty sure that most everyone hungers for them. I know I do, and judging by your post you do too. If that is actually one of the things you hunger for in life, finding out that no one else is dealing with the same thing is going to be devastating (considering it's causing you so much worry). Secondly, you'll just have wasted a lot of time and effort because no one else would understand the problem any better than you do, so no one will be able to offer much advice. They won't be much help and you'll just be left feeling more alone and depressed because of it.

Then suppose that it's a universal problem, or at least a fairly common one. For this... I mean... let's be honest... intp's are widely known (if internet portraits are at all accurate) for having the highest precision in their thoughts. We make distinctions, see connections, and find logical flaws in theories better than anyone else. Of course we're insecure about that ability, and tend to deny it and (I, at least) feel extremely uncomfortable when someone compliments me on it... but because insecurity is also widely acknowledged in the portraits I think to be reasonable we should probably take both seriously. If this is true, then, you, being naturally equipped for the job and having put so much energy into merely discovering the problem, are likely the farthest along the road to self-discovery than anyone else you have a reasonable chance of meeting. To find someone else who's even aware that they have the problem may be uncommon, but to find someone who can help you reach a solution could easily never happen. Or at least, they could be so rare that you could just conclude that it's a unique problem when it's really not. Of course you may be able to read into their answers and realize they're dealing with the same thing before they know it themselves... but in the end they still can't offer any substantive help.

Basically... the only realistic benefit I can see of discerning whether other people experience the same problem is the companionship in the face of a still mysterious problem which you yourself are probably better equipped to finding the answer to anyway. I won't deny the usefulness in companionship... but I doubt that's your main goal in asking people these oblique questions and I really don't think it will help you very much in reaching a solution by the methods of logic, introspection, and shared experiences either. A greater understanding to the problem, definitely... even if your mind is the best equipped to search for a solution, adding other peoples' experiences will provide it material to work with (assuming its a common issue)... but to a solution? Besides, now that I've "called you out on it" you know I've been thinking about the same kind of thing... so there's your companionship. Anything you can think of or have found on the subject I'll try my hardest to check my religion at the door and try to sort through with you... but I can't promise to be completely unbiased.

I hate to keep sounding pessimistic by the way... but I'm pretty much convinced that this is going to be a very long, painful search for as long as you go about it. In fact if you find some way to define the root of the problem clearly and find a solution that you can succeed doing with pure effort and we're out of contact, please, hunt me down and explain it to me--I'll have to rethink my worldview pretty significantly. Until then I'll just try to help out the best I can.

 

[Ogion]

Hm, interesting conversation. I think i have to reread the whole thread...
Didn't want to interrupt, just acknowledging an interesting discussion

Ogion

 

[LucasM]

I suffer from moods. I change them as clothes. Currently I am philosophical, so here is thus:

Just keep breathing, appreciate the moment, live for today. Forget about tomorrow and the consequences that would bring, for tomorrow never comes.
But that would be something, wouldn't it? To have no consequences for your actions. To do whatever you want and to just get away with it.
But that would not be beneficial.
For with no reason for change, we will not change; a kind of personal 'inertial' damper. Of what benefit is change?
But the reasoning is faulty.
There may be no 'benefit' immediately, but the time will come when you'll look back and see yourself for who you used to be and laugh.
For you'll have reached a new understanding; and have done away with the old, for through fire is steel refined, and thus changed for the better.

Is this 'moodiness' INTPness or is this just me?

 

[loveofreason]

merged threads.