Military Service

[Toad]

I'm thinking about joining the Canadian Navy. I figure if I can't go to school or I can't get money to go to school then I'll enlist. Who knows? Maybe discipline is what I am lacking in my life.

Has anyone been in the military that can share some experiences with me? Do you guys think INTP's can handle the military? I did spend about 2 years in military school. I'm not to sure if I would say I enjoyed it...I have mixed feelings about it.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Why Canadian specifically? I thought you lived in Cali.

 

[Toad]

Because I am canadian lol...

 

[Ulysses]

Do you guys think INTP's can handle the military?

There's no written rule stating otherwise, assface. Don't let your MBTI type limit you.

 

[Toad]

The dick above me does have a point^^

It's really not a matter if I can handle the military. I'm just wondering if I will be able to conform and be happy.

 

[Tyria]

It depends on the other people around you. You could always try to enlist with others that you may know. Perhaps you will be placed together, and things won't be so different. You'd also have people that you already knew too.

 

[Toad]

Well I don't really care about not knowing people. I can always make friends.

Partly what I am afraid of is if I don't like it in there I won't be able to quit. I also am scared that I won't enjoy what I am doing.

Edit: I've been looking through INTP forums and found that people who enlisted actually don't regret joining. They said there were things they liked and things they hated, just like anything. Basically, the vibe i'm getting is the military is good for an INTP. I won't enjoy it, but it will help me develop my other functions.

I am seriously considering now.

 

[SEELE01]

Its the canadian navy man, your not going to see alot of action its probably going to mostly be living on a ship/base.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I don't know if its similar to here in America but sometimes the military will pay for schooling but you have a minimum amount of service time you are required to enlist for. There's an acronym for navy - Never Again Volunteer Yourself. I heard it from navy people. In a way I kind wish I had done the military/school path but either way I am getting where I need to be, slowly and not-so-surely

 

[Morel Panic]

Well I don't really care about not knowing people. I can always make friends.

Partly what I am afraid of is if I don't like it in there I won't be able to quit. I also am scared that I won't enjoy what I am doing.

Edit: I've been looking through INTP forums and found that people who enlisted actually don't regret joining. They said there were things they liked and things they hated, just like anything. Basically, the vibe i'm getting is the military is good for an INTP. I won't enjoy it, but it will help me develop my other functions.

I am seriously considering now.

I was pretty serious about doing ROTC and national guard, but I realized that I didn't want to have my future tied up in this country. Your situation is probably different though.

You probably won't enjoy it (I have a few military relatives who's experience certainly enforce the notion that it's not designed for INTPs), but you don't really have to enjoy it or do it forever.

There's also a lot of fun benefits for working for the government (School of course, but tons of other miscellaneous stuff). Pay is usually pretty good too.

 

[Firehazard159]

I've actually been strongly considering the US Air Force. A better environment for more computer-nerd oriented people, from what I've gathered.

I'm in the same boat as Toad though, not sure I want to be so tied down, I think I could force myself to tolerate it well enough though.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

the forced interaction could be a benefit or a bone. I considered the military route but opted out as I hate being forced into things, although sometimes its the only way something will get done. Also I don't respond kindly to aggression especially with lack of sleep and herbs. I'm sure they'd beat me into submission or something though.

 

[Android]

The main deterrent that stopped me from joining the military (USA), was that they tend to screw people on jobs. My brother enlisted and was supposedly guaranteed a job as a computer programmer, but ended up being forced into air-craft maintenance after boot camp. He enjoys what he's doing now, but it's not what he wanted originally. I've heard many, many more similar stories.

 

[Damaged.Goods]

Hello Intpforum,

Something I notice about modern ideas of wisdom in contrast to older ideas of wisdom is this: in many modern thought-systems there is progressive refinement and complexification of abstract conception versus in older ways there is refinement of overall character and intuition resulting from hard, challenging experience.

In ancient East China, somebody cannot be seen as a wise man unless they embody wisdom in every movement and unless this wisdom has grown under the water of experience and challenge and change. In modern China and west, no wisdom of this kind is often recognized; instead cleverness of word and concept and ability to manipulate ideas and distort other persons ideas is seen as intelligence.

I prefer old way. I think fluency of conception is very useful in creating technological systems, but I think the attitude of modern West and East is very damaging when it is treated as the highest kind of intelligence. Wisdom resulting from disappointment and loss and gain and the change of the seasons is truly more deep and perfect than the word and image games of present day.

I think individual born into society today is shielded from true growth as result of direct experience by the ideological filters which is implicit in all the medias he is consuming. He lives in media world, and then takes these filters out when he rarely ventures into the real world beyond media. Everywhere there is media structured by same subtle ideological filters, so that instead of his experience determining and changing his conception his experience is limited and bound by the shared conceptions in information cultures.

No wisdom like this. Wisdom come from deep, long experience altering conception. Most wisdom even is beyond conception altogether, and only taught and embodied by the entire person of the wise man. Society is ill that everybody so lost in symbolic sea of images and words that symbol-cleverness is valued over true wisdom; true wisdom that can lead humanity and cure the sickness throughout all our cultures.

Anyway, how this relate to this thread is that: yes, I think military could be very good experience for you Toad. It may be hard and harsh, but hard and harsh experience can be best teachers. I have read some of your other posts on this forums before answering because I never like to give answer without being sure it is best answer I can give. And I have seen that you sometimes call yourself stupid and have low self image.
I think you should know that just because you cannot play with symbols and words as well as some here, that does not mean they more wise. See their lives! Sometimes the cleverest symbol-changers are the least wise. So I say, Toad, maybe you can gain true wisdom from hard experience like military. Then after you can be more sure of yourself and not say such bad things about yourself.

I think military make you more wise than college, because college often only put more distancing symbols between you and direct learning experience of life.

If this don't make sense please try to think of it in terms of first few paragraphs I wrote above.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful at least a little bit.

Jin Jing.

p.s.s. I'm Sorry for my English. I only study since 2 years ago, and my parent don't pay for lessons anymore after they find me reading libertarian manifesto.

 

[Beat Mango]

Hello Intpforum,

Something I notice about modern ideas of wisdom in contrast to older ideas of wisdom is this: in many modern thought-systems there is progressive refinement and complexification of abstract conception versus in older ways there is refinement of overall character and intuition resulting from hard, challenging experience.

In ancient East China, somebody cannot be seen as a wise man unless they embody wisdom in every movement and unless this wisdom has grown under the water of experience and challenge and change. In modern China and west, no wisdom of this kind is often recognized; instead cleverness of word and concept and ability to manipulate ideas and distort other persons ideas is seen as intelligence.

I prefer old way. I think fluency of conception is very useful in creating technological systems, but I think the attitude of modern West and East is very damaging when it is treated as the highest kind of intelligence. Wisdom resulting from disappointment and loss and gain and the change of the seasons is truly more deep and perfect than the word and image games of present day.

I think individual born into society today is shielded from true growth as result of direct experience by the ideological filters which is implicit in all the medias he is consuming. He lives in media world, and then takes these filters out when he rarely ventures into the real world beyond media. Everywhere there is media structured by same subtle ideological filters, so that instead of his experience determining and changing his conception his experience is limited and bound by the shared conceptions in information cultures.

No wisdom like this. Wisdom come from deep, long experience altering conception. Most wisdom even is beyond conception altogether, and only taught and embodied by the entire person of the wise man. Society is ill that everybody so lost in symbolic sea of images and words that symbol-cleverness is valued over true wisdom; true wisdom that can lead humanity and cure the sickness throughout all our cultures.

Anyway, how this relate to this thread is that: yes, I think military could be very good experience for you Toad. It may be hard and harsh, but hard and harsh experience can be best teachers. I have read some of your other posts on this forums before answering because I never like to give answer without being sure it is best answer I can give. And I have seen that you sometimes call yourself stupid and have low self image.
I think you should know that just because you cannot play with symbols and words as well as some here, that does not mean they more wise. See their lives! Sometimes the cleverest symbol-changers are the least wise. So I say, Toad, maybe you can gain true wisdom from hard experience like military. Then after you can be more sure of yourself and not say such bad things about yourself.

I think military make you more wise than college, because college often only put more distancing symbols between you and direct learning experience of life.

If this don't make sense please try to think of it in terms of first few paragraphs I wrote above.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful at least a little bit.

Jin Jing.

Come on be honest - are you the Dalai Lama?!

 

[Android]

I think military make you more wise than college, because college often only put more distancing symbols between you and direct learning experience of life.

I don't think military or college are direct sources of wisdom, and I think that any gains from either are specific to the individual. I think Toad is seeing the military as a tool to fix some perceived personality flaws.. and it may be. Fixing flaws is a potential step on the path to wisdom.

As far as "distancing symbols" and college are concerned: I agree that the more you think you know, the more likely you are to be living in a constructed or false reality/paradigm. The pursuit of wisdom isn't for the majority of people anyways. I don't see college and/or learning as the direct cause of this though.. it has more to do with the philosophy you live by. With the right perspective nothing has the ability to distance you from the world. There is a lot to be said for the college experience other than what you learn in class.. it teaches many people how to integrate themselves into society and be "successful". I'll be the first to reject the validity of what most people consider success, but at the same time I understand the need for it.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

The only reason I'm going to college is for the degree so I can exist in the meritocracy. There is wisdom to be gained anywhere. College may not offer much of it but there are experiences to be had anywhere. Where there is experience there is wisdom. I do agree that college puts a lot of distance between knowledge and wisdom. I just wanna see how far I can ride mediocrity and not be mediocre. I can also receive funds for going so I have an added reason to go especially when jobs are tougher and tougher to find. If I find a better way I'm all for it. I feel stuck right now though and I am just trying to slowly climb my way out. I may not be a huge fan of the military but I don't deny its necessity, I just question the motives of those giving the orders. Blind obedience=death, to me

 

[Enne]

Typewise I'm sure anyone can 'handle' it. Benefit from it... we'll see. Conforming or not conforming and retaining your personal authenticity will be a matter of your own personal level of mental strength, and how deeply rooted any personal truths you may have are, so again, that has nothing to do with MBTI. I do think, however, that if you want to enjoy military work, you'd be better off trying to pursue something along the lines of tactics, intelligence gathering, or some other analytical role.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

or if you are like me I possibly consider weapons/technology development but I lack the formal education/training/credentials for any of that. Not to mention "getting in" to that area.

 

[James Black]

I've been tempted to get in, but am quickly losing interest. 99th percentile on the ASVAB with all line scores in the 130s-150s, yet the jobs I'm offered are 80% insulting and 20% merely uninteresting. Now, I don't think that I'm "better than everyone else joining the army", but I do think I'm intelligent enough to be offered better jobs than Infantry, Explosive Ordnance Disposal, or Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear specialist. The intelligence jobs I was holding out for were not offered me, and the few (three) that offered me were more the grunt work "intelligence gathering" (I don't want to be a secret agent, I want to be the brain) and not the "intelligence analyzing" type --- Not to mention one had no bonus, one had negligible bonus, and the other had amazing bonuses, assuming you signed up for 5 to 6 years of service. I'm mildly interested in going in, mainly to save myself from financial issues, but also because it'd be a challenge and I could learn, but I'm not going to commit to something that I do not enjoy, and therefore, college still seems the better alternative.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

Yeah, you can't bank on getting into the R & D department. Not that I have any experience with this or anything. It just seems like they would be more interested in a facts and figures type person and not the abstract mind of the INTP. I think of INTJ when I consider that field. I used to think that developing weapons and such would be an awful thing but if I had the option I'd pursue it. There will always be new things, might as well be a catalyst and see how people handle the new stuff. Society seems to be either dying a slow death or making a slow recovery. Might as well speed up the process.

 

[Veritas]

Regarding the jobs, you don't get a choice. You choose a category and they throw you in a random job within that field, regardless of your test scores. Because the military is so diverse, it balances out the levels of intelligence and various skillsets. I hate my job, it's boring, but because it was so easy to pick up, i became an NCO a year ahead of the average Marine. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but being smarter tends to pay off as you will stand out, whether you want to or not.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I have trouble with the military going abroad when we can't even get things right here at home(the US)

 

[James Black]

Regarding the jobs, you don't get a choice. You choose a category and they throw you in a random job within that field, regardless of your test scores.

In the Army, you pick. Any other branch, you pick the field, and they pick.

 

[walfin]

Please become an officer. Otherwise you'll end up in some boring NCO job like Veritas.

I don't know why anybody wants to join the military, but good luck. Different country, different Army (and if you're smart you should join the Navy or Air Force), so I shouldn't diss your military based on my experience of mine.

P.S. James Black: I would be surprised if it wasn't SOP that everyone gets offered Infantry.

 

[Mars]

in high school our careers advisor had everyone in class test on MBTI, I don't know where she pulled this particular test form but one recommended career for an INTP was an army officer.

I think the reasoning came through that with the INTP Perception tactical options were easily available for our consideration and the NT made a goot 'computer' for choice evaluation with the I comming in at being effective at operating as a single officer in the field and being able to maintain a personal distance from those under your command.

I'm trying to get into the army as an officer. It's been a bit of a challenge for me, so far if only because I just passed highschool and left a uni degree after one year. but i've been working at it and I should be scheduled for another interview by october, should be able to get in.

 

[Firehazard159]

I was actually reading some things on slashdot.org (comments left by military people vs civilians arguing), and from what I got out of it: People of our type tend to really suffer in the initial phases of military stuff (the mindlessness of it all really, and the incessant beating people into place kind of mindset to do what you're told). But if free-thinkers can stick to it and get up into an officer position, they'll actually be happy, assuming they find a job they enjoy. Which, is really kind of how it works everywhere, isn't it? All the good INTP careers in general have a tendency to be at the top of the tier no matter what category you go into, because we need to be able to create / think / innovate, rather than be stuck in a mindless job that doesn't allow for any learning / growth.

I'm going to go into the Air Force I'm fairly certain (going to talk to a recruiter this wednesday, intending to sign up, but I've been known to bail on my plans before >.>). It's been something bothering me for the last 6 years, so I'm going to commit to it and see what happens, go in with a positive mindset understanding that I'll probably hate the repetition and drudgery of the entry level life, and see how I feel if/when I've reached the end of 4 years and advanced in rank a bit. It may suck, but it'll a learning experience... I'll try to keep you guys updated on how I feel about it all throughout my journey, if you want. And if I have the initiative >.>

 

[cheese]

p.s.s. I'm Sorry for my English. I only study since 2 years ago, and my parent don't pay for lessons anymore after they find me reading libertarian manifesto.

 

[Oblivious]

Next thing you know he might be standing in front of tanks.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't know anything about the Canadian Navy, but it may be a relatively safe branch regarding getting your head blown off, which is the main concern with going into the military. I will spare the long story and all of the stresses (internal) that led me to join the USMC in my mid-20's after getting an English degree and a teacher's certificate and almost joining the seminary after getting into medieval mysticism, but it did happen, pretty much on a wild hair. The urge came out of nowhere and I signed up within 24 hours.
It turned out to be a good overall experience, getting way outside my comfort zone. I grew in many ways that would not have been possible otherwise. An INTP values new experiences, and that definitely was one. That was the mid 1990's, though, when not much was going on militarily, so I stayed out of combat. I'd never make a career out of it, though. The lack of physical freedom had a freeing effect on my mind, since there were not alot of choices to be made. I was much less stressed out then than I am in civilian life - it was just a different mindset. I was lucky that I could stay off base in a trailer. That made a huge difference compared to being stuck in the barracks.

So, it is possible that it could be good for you and you'd value the experience.

Or,,,, you could be fucked in Iraq, Afganistan, etc. (but then again, maybe not with the CanNavy)

 

[Toad]

Wow, I read every single reply. Thanks guys. Damaged Goods, your post really made me think. Yes, wisdom is gained through experience.

I am at a crossroad in my life right now. I feel like I am capable of doing anything. I want to join the military to expand my wisdom and experience things outside of my comfort zone. However, I also want to go to school and learn! I love learning so much. After years of doing nothing, knowledge and school is like water for me. It is so refreshing. However, this knowledge, as many of you know, doesn't come cheap. The military would help out with that so a lot.

My greatest concern is that if I choose one path I will be losing something vital that can be gained from the other. If I go to school, I will miss out on all the experiences, money, and entitlements the military has to offer. But if I join the military, I feel like I might be losing time.

 

[Claverhouse]

Damaged Goods, your post really made me think. Yes, wisdom is gained through experience.

Amazingly, Damaged Goods is just 14.

But if I join the military, I feel like I might be losing time.

You can lose a lot more than that... Whilst I should not decry anyone dying for any cause, few causes make sense nowadays.


Claverhouse

 

[Toad]

No way DG is 14! Are you mistaken? S/he has 14 post counts...but 14 in age too?

Well DG if you are only 14, I have to say bravo. Not only are you only 14, but you are from China too? No wonder China is slowly taking over the world!

 

[Claverhouse]

Yes, Damaged Goods was 13 last year, and is 14 today.


One from an entirely foreign environment is prolly not aware that circa WWI 'Damaged Goods' was the term for singularly unfortunate girls who had contracted something not talked too much about back then. Yet I should be shy of explaining this to one so young, from fragrant Qingdao, where these sadnesses are unknown.


Claverhouse

 

[Ouroboros]

I'll not be the first to speculate that DG is actually the Dali Lama incognito

 

[Zero]

. . . . Do It.
Go, join the Navy.