Medschool exp after one week

[Valentas]

after having posted my thread under this one, read it, I found medicine to become the most dull subject I have ever seen. There is medical history where crazy lecturer will tell you assignments: presentation for 40 minutes on mythology of our countries gods(lol wut!??), after that there is always a task to go around city on foot just to get to some kind of sculpture of famous doctor and tell what's written there.I was cursing all day on that bullshit. Also we received 10 books just for chemistry, physics, anatomy(1000 PAGES OF ROTE MEMORIZATION), latin language(not that bad), except 100 sayings in latin to again memorize....also I have to get up every day at 6 a.m. Just to be able to come to the damn lecture on time...

People. All of them are easy-going and dont give a damn about their creativity being slowly distinguished. Also most of them came here to medicine for wrong reasons: money, fame, dad and mom are doctors, and a naive I want to help people...

Also we are taught medicine in three languages so yeah I have to learn every muscle, bone, in three languages. I felt so supressed there that I thought wtf I am doing here...so basically I was given a taste of medical school which is it is not worth it. Also our professor explained us who will not become a doctor: person who feels better when alone, person who loves only science will not enjoy medicine, clinical practice. Also you must ge unable to resist crying child and he said you can leave your logic beside you because there is little intelect needed only powerful memory and time management. All the qualities above apply to me thus it means I am not suitable for medicine and I feel fine...strange.

Architect, you said you transfered to IT and successfully learned it. I was pondering on this topic during my lectures and came to conclusion that I might want to get into CS. I contacted England uni and wow, they accepted me because I have insane maths grades. The background of programming is not required. I did some python, php, hvtml, css, and little C. I did not find it very fascinating but it was the feast for my mind. However, I am not familiar with discrete maths and feel that I may not fit in. My graduate friend told me that there was little new maths on his course and most of people were absolute dummies of programming before uni. I feel like at home when working with computer and I strongly feel that I might fly to UK and never look back.

If you ask whether i want to do medicine the answer is no. I want to run my own business or do some problem solving. I will tell you honestly: i found languages hard to understand and struggled a lot. What are my chances if I am ready to put in lectures time and like 6 hours a day on course?

 

[DeadonDreaming]

Wow. That sounds horrible.

 

[Valentas]

Wow. That sounds horrible.

'

Can anyone explain whether it is possible to succeed with only little knowledge such as arrays, variables, functions. Also I have a notion about why stuff happens when you type it. I use Windows Powershell to run programs and type them into notepad. Of course, it may seem little...Can you recommend ant literature to enlighten myself more?

 

[DeadonDreaming]

Sure. What do you want to learn about programming?

 

[Valentas]

Well, the uni's course says that :

All first-year students are introduced to programming (Java) and to the fundamentals of Software Engineering and Computer Science.
You'll also study the mathematical foundations of computer science. You'll learn about networks and computer architectures. Some first-year modules are free-choice, so you can pick a topic from across the University. You could use this opportunity to pick up a language, pursue an interest, or try something new. If you are taking computer science with/and maths then your time is split fifty-fifty between computer science and maths modules in your first year.


Second year:


All students progress to functional programming as well as learning about database technology, graphics and robotics. Mathematical aspects are explored in logic, computation and pattern recognition topics. More advanced aspects of software engineering such as systems analysis and design are covered. You will also learn about some of the professional, legal and ethical issues involved in computing.
Most students have their first experience of working for an external client in the second year, through the Software Hut project.


Third Year:


The third year offers a greater choice of topics. We encourage you to focus on the subjects that interest you the most. You may be interested in computer games technology or computational biology. You might want to explore how computers interact with speech and language. Many third-year students carry out a research project. If you're studying Computer Science with a language, you spend the third year abroad.
MComp and MEng students progress to more advanced material in the fourth year. You will have the opportunity to take part in running Genesys Solutions. There will also be a lot of Advanced Research Topics to choose from – current topics include virtual reality, computer facial animation, computer security, iPhone software development and speech processing by mind and machine.
Students with a keen interest in research can opt for Darwin – a major group research project. Finally, some of the third and fourth-year modules are based on the research activities of our staff.






***********************************************************************


Basically, I am interested in Java because it is in the first year. Why do they start teaching Java which is truly not the easiest language?

 

[DeadonDreaming]

It's useful to know. Its similar enough to C.

 

[Architect]

Hi @Valentas,

Thanks for the update, I'm glad you are persuing CS, in my experience it is not perfect but is one of the better, if not best places for an INTP to end up in.

You have a lot of information here so I'm not sure what to answer, but I'll put a few things out. First off, most schools don't teach much programming, because of the time needed for teaching the theory. In the real world, assuming you want a job as a software engineer, is all about the craft of programming. If you want to go that route I recommend doing some software projects on the side outside of school. Write some free software, contribute to a free software project, write an iPhone app, or write an Android app. These are all things that an employer can see that you did, nothing speaks louder than an actual working program that people are using. Like I say, all employers care about is how much and how well you can write code.

Otherwise have fun with the classes. I loved them all, theoretical CS, graphics, data structures, operating systems, databases, AI especially; it's all fascinating. Don't expect to take a complier class and get a job on a compiler, as the new guys never get those jobs. But take them and enjoy.

As for learning java - absolutely. It's a great little language*. Also make sure you learn one of the C's; C++, C, or C#. If you have java and C++ under your belt you'll do fine. Also get conversant with an operating system, Windows, OS X or Linux. When I'm hiring somebody I look for a passionate tinkerer. Not somebody that just took the classes, but who would mess around with technology when they went home. Did they get their computer to control the heat and lights in their house? Did they write some cool web page plugin? Did they write a neat Android app, and are they excited about it?

If this stuff doesn't get you excited; the amazing things we can do with software and the future possibilities, then it maybe isn't a field for you. But it sounds like you have a great program there at the University, I think you'll love it.

Make sure to keep us in the loop as to how it goes.

*DeadonDreaming - C is not at all like java, other than some low level syntactic sugar.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

*DeadonDreaming - C is not at all like java, other than some low level syntactic sugar.

@Architect

The syntax is very similar, in fact the syntax of Java is derived from C.

"The syntax of the Java programming language is the set of rules which defines how a Java program is written and interpreted.
The syntax is mostly derived from C and C++."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_syntax

There, wikipedia.

 

[toastedtruth]

Well, the uni's course says that...

Sounds BS again tbh. I could find that sort of thing in College where I live (woop, I'm on it).

University of Sheffield...

Well it's about 150 miles away from there (lol), but here are the current UEA courses in computer science.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/cmp/courses


Edit: having said that, try this.

 

[Architect]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_syntax

There, wikipedia.

@DeadonDreaming Don't try and teach your grandpa how to suck eggs! I was writing code on mission critical systems before you were born.

Like I said, Java shares low level syntactic sugar with C. Basic imperative statements. C has no classes, no exceptions, no OOP, pointer manipulation, etc. I wouldn't take a C programmer as being a Java programmer. I wouldn't even take a C# as a Java, as they are closer but still not that close.

C is one step above assembly, Java runs in a VM for gods sake.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

@DeadonDreaming Don't try and teach your grandpa how to suck eggs! I was writing code on mission critical systems before you were born.

That's nice, appeals to authority are what win arguments on an INTP forum.

Like I said, Java shares low level syntactic sugar with C. Basic imperative statements. C has no classes, no exceptions, no OOP, pointer manipulation, etc. I wouldn't take a C programmer as being a Java programmer. I wouldn't even take a C# as a Java, as they are closer but still not that close.

C is one step above assembly, Java runs in a VM for gods sake.

What does any of this matter in regards to what I said? He'll be able to learn C and C++ easier after learning Java. You completely missed that point, especially when I said "similar enough", which means its similar enough so that he'll be able to learn one after the other easier.

 

[Architect]

That's nice, appeals to authority are what win arguments on an INTP forum.

Which is why I immediately backed it up with the reasons why they are not alike.

What does any of this matter in regards to what I said? He'll be able to learn C and C++ easier after learning Java. You completely missed that point, especially when I said "similar enough", which means its similar enough so that he'll be able to learn one after the other easier.

Well when you write one sentence answers it's hard to know what your thinking, isn't it?

It's useful to know. Its similar enough to C.

I take that statement at face value, which I responded to that the languages are very, very different.

Now if what you really meant to say was that "He'll be able to learn C and C++ easier after learning Java." then I certainly agree. The reverse is also true. I'm believe that it doesn't really matter what your first language is. Studies show that most engineers don't learn more than a handful of languages in their career, but I'm of the mind that the good engineers keep on learning.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

Which is why I immediately backed it up with the reasons why they are not alike.



Well when you write one sentence answers it's hard to know what your thinking, isn't it?



I take that statement at face value, which I responded to that the languages are very, very different.

Now if what you really meant to say was that "He'll be able to learn C and C++ easier after learning Java." then I certainly agree. The reverse is also true. I'm believe that it doesn't really matter what your first language is. Studies show that most engineers don't learn more than a handful of languages in their career, but I'm of the mind that the good engineers keep on learning.

Ah yes, its similar enough to C so that you'll be able to learn it after, my bad.

 

[PhoenixRising]

As far as being a programmer goes, it usually gets you stable work with decent pay. However, if you have any creative tendencies whatsoever, straight programming probably isn't the best way to go. My ENTJ boyfriend is a programmer, or as he puts it a "software engineer". He got his degree in simulation programming in C++. Now he's working for the state programming welfare forms and the applications that sort them. He gets paid over 50k per year, and has amazing benefits, but he is bored to tears. He wants to create video games, write scripts, animate characters, etc. Those jobs are in high demand though, so competition is ridiculous.

He also has a side business building computers and selling them to clients. This is also something he hates, because he has to provide repair and support in order to be competitive with companies like Dell, etc. Being an ENTJ, he's really good with people, but the clients he has drive him absolutely crazy. He gets calls at 5am because some guy doesn't know how to log into Netflix or reset his router, etc.

I don't know about other types of jobs in CS, there's probably something out there that would be enjoyable. Do study the market though, make sure the kind of job you want is available before you go headlong into the field.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

As far as being a programmer goes, it usually gets you stable work with decent pay. However, if you have any creative tendencies whatsoever, straight programming probably isn't the best way to go. My ENTJ boyfriend is a programmer, or as he puts it a "software engineer". He got his degree in simulation programming in C++. Now he's working for the state programming welfare forms and the applications that sort them. He gets paid over 50k per year, and has amazing benefits, but he is bored to tears. He wants to create video games, write scripts, animate characters, etc. Those jobs are in high demand though, so competition is ridiculous.

He also has a side business building computers and selling them to clients. This is also something he hates, because he has to provide repair and support in order to be competitive with companies like Dell, etc. Being an ENTJ, he's really good with people, but the clients he has drive him absolutely crazy. He gets calls at 5am because some guy doesn't know how to log into Netflix or reset his router, etc.

I don't know about other types of jobs in CS, there's probably something out there that would be enjoyable. Do study the market though, make sure the kind of job you want is available before you go headlong into the field.

Research quantitative analysis. Entry positions are around 80k.

 

[Architect]

As far as being a programmer goes, it usually gets you stable work with decent pay. However, if you have any creative tendencies whatsoever, straight programming probably isn't the best way to go. My ENTJ boyfriend is a programmer, or as he puts it a "software engineer". He got his degree in simulation programming in C++. Now he's working for the state programming welfare forms and the applications that sort them. He gets paid over 50k per year, and has amazing benefits, but he is bored to tears. He wants to create video games, write scripts, animate characters, etc. Those jobs are in high demand though, so competition is ridiculous.
...
I don't know about other types of jobs in CS, there's probably something out there that would be enjoyable. Do study the market though, make sure the kind of job you want is available before you go headlong into the field.

Now this is a very important point which I tried to allude to. People, especially INTPs, get all wrapped up in what field to go into. More important than the field the particular job you get. Are you an academic? Where, what school, teaching what? Are you an engineer? Where, what type of software, what company. How much do you make? For example, who is happier, the guy making $200k in a boring software job, or the guy making $40k in an exciting job? Personally I'd take the boring - and actually I did. I make near that and my job is pretty sedate. The fun comes with the stuff I do on my own.

So yes, CS is a good field for the INTP, but your ultimate happiness will depend more on the exact position you get. Be choosy if you can, and if you can't go somewhere you can make it work into something better.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Now this is a very important point which I tried to allude to. People, especially INTPs, get all wrapped up in what field to go into. More important than the field the particular job you get. Are you an academic? Where, what school, teaching what? Are you an engineer? Where, what type of software, what company. How much do you make? For example, who is happier, the guy making $200k in a boring software job, or the guy making $40k in an exciting job? Personally I'd take the boring - and actually I did. I make near that and my job is pretty sedate. The fun comes with the stuff I do on my own.

So yes, CS is a good field for the INTP, but your ultimate happiness will depend more on the exact position you get. Be choosy if you can, and if you can't go somewhere you can make it work into something better.

How old are you?

 

[Architect]

How old are you?

Why do you ask? Call it midlife.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Why do you ask? Call it midlife.

I was wondering about the general age of people earning close to 200k. More specifically, how many years of experience they have under their belt.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Research quantitative analysis. Entry positions are around 80k.

As @Architect said, it's really about being smart and finding your own personal niche. A "quantitative analyzer" sounds good, but what does that title really mean? It seems like it means vastly different things for different companies. That was my point, there are a million coder positions to be filled out there, but finding one that will be fun for you individually is difficult. I looked up jobs for quantitative analysis on Google and got a lot of things like this:

https://jobs.brassring.com/en/asp/t...rtnerid=335&siteid=77&jobId=1351654&codes=IND

Doesn't sound like a CS degree alone would get you the job, you'd need experience in finance as well.

It's really important to research what job position fits you best before getting a college degree, so that you can get the degree that will get you the right job. It's also very important to make sure there are enough job openings in your prospective occupation. A lot of fields are flooded right now. This is what happened to my boyfriend, he wanted to be a game designer, but guess what, so do millions of other people. Psychology is the same, no one is hiring graduates from psychology degrees, so they end up working at McDonald's.

 

[Architect]

There really aren't any rules or guidelines, it depends on many circumstances. In my case I was a lead architect for a team of architects, for a world wide team of several hundred software engineers for a big multi $M business. That business moved on and now I'm in a lower level software job, but pay is sticky.

I had to act outside my type to get to that spot, lots of leadership and such. Got me what I wanted and the experience is good, but psychically draining for the long term which is why I'm doing what I am now. This is why I dole out free advice; I've been around the career block a lot and have a decent opinion on what works and doesn't.

My situation is fairly unusual, but as @PhoenixRising said I always worked myself into a niche, for what I wanted at the time. If I was striking out for the first time and wanted a corporate job I would go work for Google.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

@Architect

What are your thoughts on PhDs?

 

[Architect]

@Architect

What are your thoughts on PhDs?

I was in a hard science phd program in a top five grad school, but escaped with a masters. My fellow students and teachers were all - except the Nobel scientists and their near colleagues - somewhat bitter about the prospects. You would study well into your mid to late 30's (after phd and postdocs) while some punk engineer would be making three times what you made in his early 20's. That kind of advantage is impossible to beat. We all want to live a comfortable and secure life - whatever else we want, and taking decades before you can start earning $ really sets you behind. *

In the working world I work with a number of PhDs. A few came here after getting the degree, the others are our top scientists who got the company to pay for it (I started the program once or twice but ultimately didn't see the value in continuing.) In any case the degree doesn't do much for you. Oh sure it shines the turd a little better, but as I've said elsewhere your position is due to many circumstances, and degrees are a small part of that. **

Personally, I don't put much stock in advanced degrees. Education is changing, the academic world is modeled after the corporate and not much different from it. Now you can take graduate courses for free from Coursera and Udacity. I'm not going to encourage my kid to get one unless he really wants it.

* The dollar value of education has been studied, I have a number of private economic analysis on this. The short answer is that education usually doesn't pay, certainly not past the bachelors.

** Having advanced degrees often works against you, unless you are going for specific academic positions. Advanced corporate positions are filled by long time internal candidates, not some outside guy with a phd. And if you were going for some high paying but lower level job (software engineer or designer) you would get the question "why are you applying for this job"? Many employers would be suspicious of you because of the phd.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

@ Valentas sorry for hijacking the thread but Architect is wealth of knowledge.

I was in a hard science phd program in a top five grad school, but escaped with a masters. My fellow students and teachers were all - except the Nobel scientists and their near colleagues - somewhat bitter about the prospects. You would study well into your mid to late 30's (after phd and postdocs) while some punk engineer would be making three times what you made in his early 20's. That kind of advantage is impossible to beat. We all want to live a comfortable and secure life - whatever else we want, and taking decades before you can start earning $ really sets you behind. *

In the working world I work with a number of PhDs. A few came here after getting the degree, the others are our top scientists who got the company to pay for it (I started the program once or twice but ultimately didn't see the value in continuing.) In any case the degree doesn't do much for you. Oh sure it shines the turd a little better, but as I've said elsewhere your position is due to many circumstances, and degrees are a small part of that. **

Personally, I don't put much stock in advanced degrees. Education is changing, the academic world is modeled after the corporate and not much different from it. Now you can take graduate courses for free from Coursera and Udacity. I'm not going to encourage my kid to get one unless he really wants it.

* The dollar value of education has been studied, I have a number of private economic studies on this. The short answer is that education usually doesn't pay, certainly not past the bachelors.

** Having advanced degrees usually works against you, unless you are going for specific academic positions. Advanced corporate positions are filled by long time internal candidates, not some outside guy with a phd.

I have bachelors in civil engineering with hons. (a postgrad qualification that all engineers must do) and a bachelors in applied mathematics. Long story short, I am 23 years old doing a PhD (on a full tuition scholarship with stipend) and I should be finished in roughly 2 years. It involves a heavy dose of statistics, artificial intelligence algorithms and financial analysis. Stuff I find interesting. I have a statistical modelling paper published and 2 more under review. By the end I should have around 4 to 5 paper published. I am very unsure about job prospects not in academia. I know the field of finance is looking for people with PhDs in my area. Am I setting myself up for career suicide?

 

[Architect]

I have bachelors in civil engineering with hons. (a postgrad qualification that all engineers must do) and a bachelors in applied mathematics. Long story short, I am 23 years old doing a PhD (on a full tuition scholarship with stipend) and I should be finished in roughly 2 years. It involves a heavy dose of statistics, artificial intelligence algorithms and financial analysis. Stuff I find interesting. I have a statistical modelling paper published and 2 more under review. By the end I should have around 4 to 5 paper published. I am very unsure about job prospects not in academia. I know the field of finance is looking for people with PhDs in my area. Am I setting myself up for career suicide?

What is the PhD in?

Well all you need is one job. This is an important point; don't shoot for the median if you don't want the median. Yes there are more jobs out there for say, bachelors in CS, then for guys with civil/applied math, plus a phd in X, but you don't need a thousand job offers, just one.

However ... you may not like the offers you get. With your background finance is a possibility. Now don't listen to me, but I wouldn't work in finance for longer than five or ten years max. Just long enough to get your 'fuck you' money and leave (so hopefully you're one of those $1M finance programmers). The other area is I know a lot of aerospace and defense guys with backgrounds like that. But A&D is kind of a nasty area to work in too, govt. contracts and such. Many war stories I could tell you another time (we sell to A&D customers).

So I don't really have any advice, it depends on what you want. No the phd won't kill your chances, but yes it will kind of close some doors while kind of opening others. Since you are young and can get it in a few years that counts for a lot. You also didn't say what you want to do. IT/CS? Finance what? Programming for finance, or working at Goldman as a trader?

 

[Analyzer]

Hey architect...I have been in college for 3 years and deciding whether to continue. I was in the exact same spot as the OP, until I discovered the wonders of computers. For the last 6 months I have been learning how to program and have good grasp of the concepts and basics. Is it worth it to stay extra years in school and get a degree in CS? Or is there a way I can land a job in the software/developing field with certifications or other experience?

Also, what is a good field of programming and languages to get involved in that has a future market. Systems programming, mobile/web development? I have an interest in GIS, if that is related to programming at all.

 

[Valentas]

Hey architect...I have been in college for 3 years and deciding whether to continue. I was in the exact same spot as the OP, until I discovered the wonders of computers. For the last 6 months I have been learning how to program and have good grasp of the concepts and basics. Is it worth it to stay extra years in school and get a degree in CS? Or is there a way I can land a job in the software/developing field with certifications or other experience?

Also, what is a good field of programming and languages to get involved in that has a future market. Systems programming, mobile/web development? I have an interest in GIS, if that is related to programming at all.

Analyzer, you've been studying what?

Architect, how hard it is going to be for me if I am new in this field? I know how the code looks like, I tried mess around but it was very confusing. I mean I know so little that I cannot even understand why program like this:

http://www.codemiles.com/java-examples/read-your-gmail-using-java-code-t6902.html

and I can't understand why it is going on like this...

 

[Etheri]

Quick note, your first year seems awfully similar to the first year I had.

However, my first year was a combined year for all engineering courses (except architecture, including civil, cause they're too creative and too bad with maths. I'm talking architecture, not civil engineering)... Which means i got (basic woop woop easy) java, and CS guys would be taking basic chemistry and material science, etc. That being said, i'm talking about 1/3rd of our classes, cause 2/3rd of our classes were simply maths.

I'm not sure how it goes there, but I found that if you're interested in programming, pay attention and can deal with a fast pace, no pre-knowledge is required whatsoever. In all honesty, other than the small details (for example knowing how data is saved and thus when methods modify your main without returning the values explicitly, etc), I found basic java to be a very logical language. I don't think that someone who's GOOD with maths and sciences should have any trouble, as long as you're motivated.

(Ps. Use one of those lovely programs that helps you with syntax and stuff, don't compile from notepad or anything. Learning syntax by heart from scratch is for parrots. The diffrence between writing programs in notepad or in a program as eclipse is HUGE. I always considered this to be completely obvious, until I found some peers just didn't know. So sad.)

 

[Etheri]

Architect, how hard it is going to be for me if I am new in this field? I know how the code looks like, I tried mess around but it was very confusing. I mean I know so little that I cannot even understand why program like this:

http://www.codemiles.com/java-examples/read-your-gmail-using-java-code-t6902.html

and I can't understand why it is going on like this...

Start with the if, else, for, while, ... structures. They're quite straightforward and used in basically any language. Then read up on methods, classes (and perhaps interfaces).
Refrain from file based input / output until you understand those.

While the code you linked isn't the most complicated, I personally find it an awful learning example. (For example the lack of a main). His code itself does NOTHING. It only 'defines' commands which you can then use in other codes, once you include this file...

I don't know where your course starts, but I don't think you should have severe problems. If it worries you, there are MANY online courses teaching you the basics, which you could master in a matter of days easily.

 

[Valentas]

http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/advice.html

This is the book where I learned my basics. Up till 35th I was okay but then it became hard.

My friend sent me an ebook: 3D math primer for graphics which I found veeeeery interesting. Especially I liked basics which were laid out pretty well.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

What is the PhD in?

Well all you need is one job. This is an important point; don't shoot for the median if you don't want the median. Yes there are more jobs out there for say, bachelors in CS, then for guys with civil/applied math, plus a phd in X, but you don't need a thousand job offers, just one.

However ... you may not like the offers you get. With your background finance is a possibility. Now don't listen to me, but I wouldn't work in finance for longer than five or ten years max. Just long enough to get your 'fuck you' money and leave (so hopefully you're one of those $1M finance programmers). The other area is I know a lot of aerospace and defense guys with backgrounds like that. But A&D is kind of a nasty area to work in too, govt. contracts and such. Many war stories I could tell you another time (we sell to A&D customers).

So I don't really have any advice, it depends on what you want. No the phd won't kill your chances, but yes it will kind of close some doors while kind of opening others. Since you are young and can get it in a few years that counts for a lot. You also didn't say what you want to do. IT/CS? Finance what? Programming for finance, or working at Goldman as a trader?

My PhD? Initially I thought I was going to be writing energy management control functions with distributed generation and storage in low voltage distribution networks i.e. smart grid technology. I am not exactly in control of my PhD. Since most of this tech have already been developed, I have been pushed into modelling the implementation of this tech and performing financial analysis/modelling. I am unsure what type of work this is called. I do find it interesting.

 

[Architect]

Hey architect...I have been in college for 3 years and deciding whether to continue. I was in the exact same spot as the OP, until I discovered the wonders of computers. For the last 6 months I have been learning how to program and have good grasp of the concepts and basics. Is it worth it to stay extra years in school and get a degree in CS? Or is there a way I can land a job in the software/developing field with certifications or other experience?

Also, what is a good field of programming and languages to get involved in that has a future market. Systems programming, mobile/web development? I have an interest in GIS, if that is related to programming at all.

Analyzer, you've been studying what?

Architect, how hard it is going to be for me if I am new in this field? I know how the code looks like, I tried mess around but it was very confusing. I mean I know so little that I cannot even understand why program like this:

Number one thing that an employer is looking for is experience. There are multiple ways to get that, including an internship, working on an open-source software project, or starting your own project. Back when I was going to school the only way to get experience was from working for the University or Corporation. It was a little embarrassing to go into a job interview and the only thing you could tell them that you worked on were programming projects for school. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I really would've liked to have had a stronger resume. Nowadays it's quite a bit easier, because there are so many opportunities to work on software projects.

Now, to answer questions. About landing a job without having a formal degree, yes that is possible. In my case I was in a CS program and I had degrees in science, but I was able to land a job before graduating with a degree in CS. Those were somewhat unusual circumstances as of the .com boom at the time and I had a little bit of an in at the company. But as I said above experiences the number one thing that are looking for, so if you are able to acquire experience that will get you far.

There is no answer to “a good field of programming or languages”. It's always changing, and for all fields of technology in programming languages out there there are plenty of employers. Again you just need to find one job. Finally, as to how hard it will be for you to break into this, I really can't answer that question. It depends entirely upon your existing knowledge and ability to work with computers. In my case I took to computers like a duck to water. They always made sense to me, and as Analyzer said I've always felt that they were a world of wonder. However that doesn't mean that they're always easy to work with, there were many times, and are, where looked at a page of code and felt like I had no idea what is trying to say. For that you just need to figure it out and get yourself started by your bootstraps.

 

[Valentas]

i dropped out of medical school because i did not see a point to learn medicine when i will not be a doctor anyway...i had a conversation with my father who explained that i have one huge issue: lack of ability to communicate. He offered me to try military for a year but warned that there will be nothing you like. He said you will become confident there, physically strong. Maybe...

Also I went to psychologist for a first time in my life. I explained her my situation and she decided that I am addicted to computers thus I lost communication ability. I used computer to talk with like-minded people and watch java tutorials..oh well.

Also she said to stop crying what I want and get a job. Get out of parents' house and live on my own. Earn my own money for university and never take from parents pockets once more...she is right but there is one flaw. It is impossible to find work for a school leaver in my country. I must emigrate somewhere and try to start here...eh.

Another option is to fly to uni for computer science. However, i am not sure whether i want to study this or not...and there is a debt waiting if i choose wrong course. Honestly, i am a failure. I have no idea what to do, only go somewhere to work or suck it up and embark on degree...there i would meet people, maybe i'd improve communication skills but to be honest, the debt makes turn back and do something else. I would join military in the usa but well...i need green card. My options are exhausted and i feel that a student who achieved amazing results in school is now a mediocre person contemplating why life hit me so hard with a red brick to my head. What is the most sensible approach?

 

[Architect]

Just pick something - CS, and don't think about it.

STOP THINKING ABOUT IT

You are at an important crossroads in your life. Choose one path (do nothing), and you will be miserable, probably for the rest of your life. Choose the other (do something - anything, I recommend CS) and you will have a full life.

Choose wisely.

 

[Valentas]

@Architect

What about this solution? One of my friends offered me opportunity to join his friends programming team in our capital. I would go there to work for free and in exchange, team leader would teach me programming, database supervision, cryptography.

They specialize in bank systems solutions, encryption.

http://www.forbis.co.uk/

What do you think? It would be a lot smarter to enjoy teaching for free than to pay money and go blindly into university..

 

[Architect]

What about this solution? One of my friends offered me opportunity to join his friends programming team in our capital. I would go there to work for free and in exchange, team leader would teach me programming, database supervision, cryptography.

They specialize in bank systems solutions, encryption.

http://www.forbis.co.uk/

What do you think? It would be a lot smarter to enjoy teaching for free than to pay money and go blindly into university..

The wonderful thing about software engineering is that it is possible to work in the field without getting formal education. However I do think that having a formal education provides many benefits, and you really only have one point in your life where you can get your education. When you get older you will have less time and be less interested in going to school.

This opportunity sounds great and you should seriously consider it. One problem I have with it is that it is unpaid. How quickly can you work it into a paid position? That's the key question here. If the answer is within six months to year then I would cautiously say it's a good opportunity to do. If you could do it while attending university then that would be even better and the ideal approach.

 

[Valentas]

The programming head said: "If you are going to succeed here, show some ability of comprehending this stuff, I advise you to stay here to work for us and attend university part-time." So I guess it is all again on my shoulders.

The university gladly accepted me to defer entry for a year...so I guess I will not need to apply again. However, I found another course at Maastricht University which looks interesting and costs a lot less.

http://www.maastrichtuniversity.nl/.../BachelorsProgrammes/KnowledgeEngineering.htm

 

[Architect]

The programming head said: "If you are going to succeed here, show some ability of comprehending this stuff, I advise you to stay here to work for us and attend university part-time."

That is good advice on all fronts. If you have to work hard, so be it. The time to pay your dues is when you are young.

 

[Analyzer]

Is there not a possibility that formal education as we know it will end or change completely in the near future? With the Internet and online coursework such as coursea providing a lot of classes for free, what is there to gain from attending an expensive university?

Also, recently Berkley has joined MIT and Havard in a program where they will offer access to there classes for free around the world. Eventually they might charge for a certificate or something. https://www.edx.org/

Seems the future of formal education is changing..

 

[Tosh]

However ... you may not like the offers you get. With your background finance is a possibility. Now don't listen to me, but I wouldn't work in finance for longer than five or ten years max. Just long enough to get your 'fuck you' money and leave (so hopefully you're one of those $1M finance programmers). The other area is I know a lot of aerospace and defense guys with backgrounds like that. But A&D is kind of a nasty area to work in too, govt. contracts and such. Many war stories I could tell you another time (we sell to A&D customers).

Don't listen to me either, but ten years later, with fuck-you money in your pocket and all that finance programming experience behind you, you might find yourself facing the same quandary all over again!

Yes, I'm speaking from personal experience. The cool thing is, this time around I have all that fuck-you money and finance experience, which opens up all sorts of options. And it's all about the options... oh, the options...

I found that as long as I was actually doing something I could still get away with constantly changing my mind. I started on a double major in Accounting and Chemistry, switched Chemistry with CS, and Accounting with random business minors. Still with no idea what I wanted to do, I forced myself to apply for a half-dozen jobs at a careers fair, won an Accounting job (until the interview I thought it was in Marketing), fell into a IT project, finally ended up as a consultant for financial modeling software.

The trick to getting all this stuff done, for me, was to submit applications for whatever job/course/networking-event took my fancy as soon as I saw it, however unnatural and uncomfortable it felt. The panic of impending interviews/tests/socialisation always (eventually) forced me into action.

 

[Jackooboy]

Valentas: I can commiserate with you. I'm doing nursing school (accelerated BSN)... The professors are dull and don't know their subject. They only require you to memorize... which I hate, and don't require you to know how everything works.

The medical field offers very little creativity... I don't mind clinical.

After I'm done with this, I have to decide if I want to continue to get a nurse practitioner degree or if I should go to law school where creativity is required and expected.

Also, I've thought about informatics nursing.

 

[snafupants]

That sounds pretty awful, which is why I'm continuing to dodge law school.

latin language(not that bad), except 100 sayings in latin to again memorize

One of the latin words must have been statim...if Doogie Howser has taught me anything.

I want to run my own business or do some problem solving.

Then drop out and do it.