Male INFJs

[Pizzabeak]

How would one describe inferior Se? In a typical day how does this influence one? Does this mean there's more or less desire for stuff to be grounded in a useful framework?

 

[Jennywocky]

Hopefully an INFJ can chime in. In my limited understanding, typically people distrust the inferior -- just like INTPs distrust Fe, which means they don't like it when people make decisions on it or they are forced to comply with it. it's not a preferred method of reasoning.

I suspect for someone that goes off their intuitive grasp of things, to actually be forced to deal with something on the surface through pure data without inferences can feel remarkably dangerous... like you're shutting down your eyes and viewing thing shallowly. Also, there would be no natural way to process stimulation, so it could seem dangerous and overwhelming... hence a need to control that flow of input and carefully evaluate it. Just throwing yourself into an experience on the fly could seem liberating as well as very dangerous and foolish.

the "grounded framework" actually is intuitive, if you see what I am getting at. Everyone operates off what they perceive as a "grounded primary," it feels safe and sensible and reliable. Shutting off Ni would be like putting your eyes out, it IS the "grounded framework." Se is what seems spurious, unpredictable, uncontrollable.

But I'm just going theoretically here.

 

[StevenM]

I don't even know why I'm bothering to post. My brain is rotted

When Se is brought to the forefront, pushing back Ni, there is a sure validation in the concrete and tangible details before them. The underlying cohesive (I guess the spiritual aspect) of everything being tied together and having purpose is generally not trusted, or skewed and inaccurate. Very bluntly practical of what is in the sensor sense, objective. What tangibly lies before them is, with very little depth of meaning.

When Ni is pushed to the forefront, leaving Se behind, is I guess in a way the opposite. Details and small peculiarities are all merged together cohesively in a grand vision of purpose, or a meaning, an abstract intention. The objective, tangible, and concrete details are in a way not trusted, or almost in a blind-spot, the nuances of what can be sensed are out of focus and subliminal . Everything merges together (almost spiritually?? especially for Fe's) or at least resonating with something deep in one's subjective inner world, the unconscious.

I dunno, I guess that's my weird way of understanding it.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Well yeah, but what type of considerations go into things like sports or conversations with familiar friends or acquaintances?

Rather, is it a bad idea for them to be into sports or are they better off doing other stuff so to speak? Maybe they have a desire to get active but realize they don't really want to for too long. I know some infjs are apparently into working out, perhaps even daily. At the same time, it being 4th they might also actually make good sportsmen if they ended up investing enough time into it.

Which leads to the next thing, how much desire is there to maintain a schedule, particularly meals? There might be a certain point in development in which proper control is maintained. But would inferior Se motivate one to grab meals at proper intervals? There's some potential bleeding into top Si here. Naturally though one might assume inferior Se would have some detrimental effect there, until at least they could get mature enough to take care of the needs there. For example I know some intjs just end of skipping lunch altogether since it's somewhat unnecessary, and to save funds.

The hypothesis is this: with enfjs they have Se in 3rd, and inxps have Si in 3rd which probably leads to major conflict, probably more so with Ts because Fe-Ti. The third slot might be one of the most apparent functions in a people. At pivotal moments the third function reaches a climax and is urged. With enfjs and intps the exact opposite motivations almost always occur! Which apparently would end up being aggravating. Si and Se are actually kind of different although they each contain a piece of usefulness.

But not really. It's just related to infjs probably being slightly less active than enfjs in some regard.

 

[Architect]

How would one describe inferior Se? In a typical day how does this influence one?

Any inferior is like a adolescent (childish, not child-like). It's not mature, not well developed, so is like an insistent, whiny child that will have a tantrum (throw you under the bus) if it doesn't get what it wants. Specifically an inferior Se shows in a somewhat childish desire for nice clothing, place to live, food and the like. Not to be confused with INTP's, or any young person (particularly ISJ) who can get obsessive about their possessions (audiophila and such). Those types will actually be able to get the gear they want, whereas an inferior Se will rant and rave (to whatever degree) but have difficulty pulling it off.

It can also show up as hypochondria and obsessiveness with exercise and health. Also an inability to clean. This is seen when the individual "gets their circuits blocked" with too much mess to clean up, yet they caused it and it gives them distress. You can see the childish Se inferior that wants physical beauty and grace, but is incapable of actually getting it (picking up the damn dishes).

Does this mean there's more or less desire for stuff to be grounded in a useful framework?

I have no idea what that means.

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah I agree completely with architect my inferior Se is all about hypochondria exercise and inability to clean (things that aren't myself). I think it ties in with my Ti wanting the outside to be structured like the inside.

 

[Architect]

Yeah I agree completely with architect my inferior Se is all about hypochondria exercise and inability to clean (things that aren't myself). I think it ties in with my Ti wanting the outside to be structured like the inside.

Yes the teritary can also play a part in messing with a person. I've seen that INFJs will over think things, as you describe. INTP's teritary screws with them by overindulgence in nostalgia, and an attachment to how things have been done (Si), not new possibilities (Ne). For example, getting too caught up in their personal life history, which prevents them from making forward progress towards a goal or desire is a frequent INTP issue.

 

[redbaron]

LOL

Gopher 2sly.

 

[TheManBeyond]

If Si doms are the law, how inferior Si could make you fear Ne ^
Ne doms are not able to settle down so an INTP would have trouble with it just a bit less. "Jack of all trades, master of none" That's IMO what tertiary or inferior Si is about.
Architect you are probably an ISTJ!

For inferior Se, tmills27 pretty much nailed it. thumbs up buddy.
BTW that makes me thing that i could be an inferior Ni user, which is also contradictory but possible, mainly becuz i act like a caveman primitivily just for the desire of conquering in the present moment, Se dom maybe?, it could be auxiliary Ne as well i guess....
What makes me discard dom Se is that i'm rather calm and a long period thinker, endless tranquility thus Ni???, inferior Se for my sporadic explosions of violence.
The thing is... what is my preference? do preferences trully exist?

EDIT: thinking about it, the fact that i typed all that shit means i'm not a Ni user.

 

[Pizzabeak]

How does one differentiate between long term SeNi and NeSi? (With aux Fi)

 

[PmjPmj]

When Ni is pushed to the forefront, leaving Se behind, is I guess in a way the opposite. Details and small peculiarities are all merged together cohesively in a grand vision of purpose, or a meaning, an abstract intention. The objective, tangible, and concrete details are in a way not trusted, or almost in a blind-spot, the nuances of what can be sensed are out of focus and subliminal. Everything merges together (almost spiritually?? especially for Fe's) or at least resonating with something deep in one's subjective inner world, the unconscious.

This is perfect. Well said.

The relationship between Ni and Se can create some profoundly beautiful moments in time. Occasionally, hazy and largely unobserved external data will ‘pop’ to the fore, but it is apparently spun into something far more impressive by my Ni. A sunset, for example. Something as simple as the late afternoon sun gracing my face can create a moment of euphoria, or transcendence. It is an all-consuming feeling of ‘oneness’, but is somewhat paradoxical in nature. In those instances, I am very much grounded and within the moment, yet simultaneously aware of the larger picture and the ‘true’ nature of reality. It unfurls before me and for a fleeting moment, I understand. I am both grounded and disconnected.

Typically I am completely unaware of my external environment; I am easily overcome by sensory data, so I exist perpetually in a self-erected bubble of limited awareness, insulating myself from the world. As stated in the quote above, the external is ultimately reduced down. Personally, the external appears to me as a vast nebula. I am essentially floating through a thick fog, its depths largely impenetrable. My existence is hazy and comfortable; I find it hard to exist within the moment – most of my life has been spent ‘observing’ rather than partaking in life, a chasm between ‘it’ and ‘me’.

Occasionally however, my Se can really come to the fore and – briefly – I can enjoy being mostly in the moment. For example, in spite of being so disconnected from the physical and all together quite cack-handed, I am inexplicably good at driving in a spirited manner. This isn’t my own arrogant over-estimation of my abilities, either; I’ve actually had passengers tell me that my spatial awareness and control of the vehicle is exceptional. You just wouldn’t expect that of me, I guess. I ‘feel’ the car, I know its nuances innately. I can put it anywhere I want to. Within those moments, there is a bond, a synergy between mind and machine. Discussing this with INTJs is revealing, as they too ‘get’ this.

Apparently, only xSTPs have this greater than we do. Strange, eh?

I’ve enjoyed some pretty nippy cars of late, and I am to pick my new toy up very soon (tomorrow, perhaps) which is by far and away the quickest car I’ve ever had. The word “Brutal” can be used to sum up its acceleration with zero concern for embellishment…

… and I guess that’s another side of my Se. Architect touched upon it above, and I have seen it littered around the internet in various INFJ descriptions. Verily, I like the finer things in life. I tend not to have much, but what I do have is guaranteed to be the best that I can afford, whether it be cars, food, drink, attire, computers, etc., though I have to concede that (aforementioned car aside) this has taken a bit of a step back as of late due to fatherhood. Kids come first, and all that. Plus, my ENFJ wife is infinitely better with money management and has taught me that cutting corners doesn’t necessitate the relinquishment of fine goods.

I digress; I’m shit with money. I am *so* shit with money.

What else?

Going into a brightly lit supermarket makes me seriously zone out. I can become a mix of anxious and angry when having to deal with too much stimulation. Prolonged over-exposure to excessive noise pollution can make me go crazy; I get headaches, I can’t focus and I get extremely cranky. A few minutes of alone time in a dark room is usually sufficient to re-balance myself. My wife gets this, so I usually nip off for a quick solitary gaming session, or perhaps a 15 minute power nap.

Sex.

Yeah, so I went without it for the longest time. Turned out it was a hidden talent of mine (no, really – and I had no idea!)

At first it was awesome, but I was disconnected. Now I’m very much in the moment. Sex is amazing. Being there, enjoying that intimacy… wow. Yes. God yes.

I'm no stranger to primal desires, either. Se is somewhat of a hidden beast, occasionally rearing its ugly head and spurring me into action, its insatiable appetite far stronger than I.

Speaking of appetite, I eat too much regularly, I go through phases of extreme exercise and then NOTHING for months at a time, I don't smoke or drink until I do, at which point I end up utterly rotten with an empty pack of 20 cigarettes in my pocket and one hell of a sore throat... you get the idea. Se = more, more, MORE. MORE. M.O.R.E.... hoookay, we're pretty much dead now. You can stop.

I don’t know what else to say. Inferior Se can be an absolute dick at times, but it can also be phenomenally beneficial to enhancing my experience as a fleshy being.

There’s loads I’ve excluded here, and I’m probably too late to the conversation for anyone to give a shit, but if you do have any questions or require further insight…

 

[StevenM]

This video answers the OP quite directly, especially from a male INFJ point of view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rww45X2btcg

 

[kora]

This is perfect. Well said.

The relationship between Ni and Se can create some profoundly beautiful moments in time. Occasionally, hazy and largely unobserved external data will ‘pop’ to the fore, but it is apparently spun into something far more impressive by my Ni. A sunset, for example. Something as simple as the late afternoon sun gracing my face can create a moment of euphoria, or transcendence. It is an all-consuming feeling of ‘oneness’, but is somewhat paradoxical in nature. In those instances, I am very much grounded and within the moment, yet simultaneously aware of the larger picture and the ‘true’ nature of reality. It unfurls before me and for a fleeting moment, I understand. I am both grounded and disconnected.

Typically I am completely unaware of my external environment; I am easily overcome by sensory data, so I exist perpetually in a self-erected bubble of limited awareness, insulating myself from the world. As stated in the quote above, the external is ultimately reduced down. Personally, the external appears to me as a vast nebula. I am essentially floating through a thick fog, its depths largely impenetrable. My existence is hazy and comfortable; I find it hard to exist within the moment – most of my life has been spent ‘observing’ rather than partaking in life, a chasm between ‘it’ and ‘me’.

Occasionally however, my Se can really come to the fore and – briefly – I can enjoy being mostly in the moment. For example, in spite of being so disconnected from the physical and all together quite cack-handed, I am inexplicably good at driving in a spirited manner. This isn’t my own arrogant over-estimation of my abilities, either; I’ve actually had passengers tell me that my spatial awareness and control of the vehicle is exceptional. You just wouldn’t expect that of me, I guess. I ‘feel’ the car, I know its nuances innately. I can put it anywhere I want to. Within those moments, there is a bond, a synergy between mind and machine. Discussing this with INTJs is revealing, as they too ‘get’ this.

Apparently, only xSTPs have this greater than we do. Strange, eh?

I’ve enjoyed some pretty nippy cars of late, and I am to pick my new toy up very soon (tomorrow, perhaps) which is by far and away the quickest car I’ve ever had. The word “Brutal” can be used to sum up its acceleration with zero concern for embellishment…

… and I guess that’s another side of my Se. Architect touched upon it above, and I have seen it littered around the internet in various INFJ descriptions. Verily, I like the finer things in life. I tend not to have much, but what I do have is guaranteed to be the best that I can afford, whether it be cars, food, drink, attire, computers, etc., though I have to concede that (aforementioned car aside) this has taken a bit of a step back as of late due to fatherhood. Kids come first, and all that. Plus, my ENFJ wife is infinitely better with money management and has taught me that cutting corners doesn’t necessitate the relinquishment of fine goods.

I digress; I’m shit with money. I am *so* shit with money.

What else?

Going into a brightly lit supermarket makes me seriously zone out. I can become a mix of anxious and angry when having to deal with too much stimulation. Prolonged over-exposure to excessive noise pollution can make me go crazy; I get headaches, I can’t focus and I get extremely cranky. A few minutes of alone time in a dark room is usually sufficient to re-balance myself. My wife gets this, so I usually nip off for a quick solitary gaming session, or perhaps a 15 minute power nap.

Sex.

Yeah, so I went without it for the longest time. Turned out it was a hidden talent of mine (no, really – and I had no idea!)

At first it was awesome, but I was disconnected. Now I’m very much in the moment. Sex is amazing. Being there, enjoying that intimacy… wow. Yes. God yes.

I'm no stranger to primal desires, either. Se is somewhat of a hidden beast, occasionally rearing its ugly head and spurring me into action, its insatiable appetite far stronger than I.

Speaking of appetite, I eat too much regularly, I go through phases of extreme exercise and then NOTHING for months at a time, I don't smoke or drink until I do, at which point I end up utterly rotten with an empty pack of 20 cigarettes in my pocket and one hell of a sore throat... you get the idea. Se = more, more, MORE. MORE. M.O.R.E.... hoookay, we're pretty much dead now. You can stop.

I don’t know what else to say. Inferior Se can be an absolute dick at times, but it can also be phenomenally beneficial to enhancing my experience as a fleshy being.

There’s loads I’ve excluded here, and I’m probably too late to the conversation for anyone to give a shit, but if you do have any questions or require further insight…

Female infj here, this post hits home with me.

 

[PmjPmj]

Awesome!

I've recently had the pleasure of working alongside some Jungian Type practitioners. Part of my work involved conversing with another INFJ male via Skype, and the initial mind-meld was utterly phenomenal. We speak every day and plan to meet up very soon. The mental connection is beyond anything I've ever known.

Sure, there may be tens of millions of us on this crazy rock, but until you meet another (true) INFJ, life is a bit of a headfuck. Then, as if from nowhere, someone gets you / everything is amazing. I guess INFJs are a bit thin on the ground around my part of the world.

I haven't yet had the pleasure of chatting with a female INFJ, mind you. That'd be quite interesting.

>____>

 

[The Gopher]

Haha, smooth... (kinda) To be honest I would love to listen to two INFJ's talking. Maybe I should arrange something.

 

[Oddity]

Yeah, so I went without it for the longest time. Turned out it was a hidden talent of mine (no, really – and I had no idea!)

What makes someone good or bad at it?

 

[PmjPmj]

Haha, smooth... (kinda) To be honest I would love to listen to two INFJ's talking. Maybe I should arrange something.

For the involved parties, it's hyper-interesting. It can also sort the INFJs from the non-INFJs immediately, because two people with a true preference for NiFe can't say "Hello" to one another without getting balls deep in metaphysical conversation

What makes someone good or bad at it?

 

[Jaffa]

What makes someone good or bad at it?

I've no idea - in my experience every girl likes something different. You only learn to be a good lover by learning what your partner likes. Some like slow, passionate 'love making'. Others prefer more primal, vigorous 'rough and tumble'. Some like a mixture of both. Maybe I've just got a strange taste in girls.

... and every girl has told me that I'm the best she has had.... which I assume is something that girls say to every guy that they sleep with as I certainly don't make a huge effort to make it good for her.

* Sorry for the redirection of this thread.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I suck at typing but there's this one guy I see sometimes who I suspect may be a male INFJ. I want to avoid personally asking anyone to "take the test" because in the past that just made things awkward. I was introduced to him through his friend I met this one time. One, I was trying to see if he was INFJ (via process of elimination). We got off to a little rocky start but he seems to be acting nicer now, I guess I proved my chops or something, not that I particularly care. We aren't best friends or hanging out often or even having conversations, because that's just the way it is. We just see each other sometimes.

When we first met we walked together to for a bit and I think this is where it was. I saw that he got a gig driving one of the campus buses, and he told me he was some geology major and that he liked it because they find all sorts of new rocks they've never seen before. There was a moment and only enough time for one question: either ask about his job or about his geology. I wanted to ask about the rocks but for some reason I asked about his job and how he got it to which he replied "I just applied" and since then, it is what it is now. I think he wanted me to ask about the rocks but I just wanted to see what would happen if I didn't.

This is perfect. Well said.

Occasionally however, my Se can really come to the fore and – briefly – I can enjoy being mostly in the moment. For example, in spite of being so disconnected from the physical and all together quite cack-handed, I am inexplicably good at driving in a spirited manner. This isn’t my own arrogant over-estimation of my abilities, either; I’ve actually had passengers tell me that my spatial awareness and control of the vehicle is exceptional. You just wouldn’t expect that of me, I guess. I ‘feel’ the car, I know its nuances innately. I can put it anywhere I want to. Within those moments, there is a bond, a synergy between mind and machine. Discussing this with INTJs is revealing, as they too ‘get’ this.

Apparently, only xSTPs have this greater than we do. Strange, eh?

I’ve enjoyed some pretty nippy cars of late, and I am to pick my new toy up very soon (tomorrow, perhaps) which is by far and away the quickest car I’ve ever had. The word “Brutal” can be used to sum up its acceleration with zero concern for embellishment…

Yes, what about this? I was wondering about something like this but I can't remember that well anymore. I suppose STPs can be better at it but then a few personal things would also have to be factored in. I too get this feeling while driving sometimes but it isn't really that powerful or personal. I just played too much F-Zero in my day and so have a little understanding of the bond between man and his machine. Are Se doms better at chopping down trees with an axe than Se inferiors?

Alas, how is the inferior Se defined? Is it just less frequent, efficient? Less something to live by and more an occasional byproduct their ideal lifestyle? On the other hand I think I can posit that INFJs can be health/workout freaks or substance aficionados, they must have their coffee maybe a little dessert, probably enjoy going out to dinner with the family or whomever more so than the next person (excluding particular ISFJs). Doubt I know what I'm talking about too much, still have yet to read Jung's original works. Sort of what I was originally wondering about, any responses probably helped a little bit.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Actually what I was wondering was how to tell the difference between ESFP and ESTJ. It seems I have a fair amount of experience with efp but none that I know of with estj. There was this one guy who for the life of him couldnt and wouldnt shut the hell up, so I originally pegged him as Se(Fi). The more I think about it though he could have been TeSi. He was a business man and a rather stereotypical one at that, further lending support towards Estj although at the time I found it reasonable to suppose it shouldn't be impossible for there to be an esfp businessman. I'm wondering if that was Se-Ni or Si-Ne plus top Te. I did, though, forget what I originally was going to post. This leads to another question which I might post here or make a new thread.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Actually what I was wondering was how to tell the difference between ESFP and ESTJ. It seems I have a fair amount of experience with efp but none that I know of with estj. There was this one guy who for the life of him couldnt and wouldnt shut the hell up, so I originally pegged him as Se(Fi). The more I think about it though he could have been TeSi. He was a business man and a rather stereotypical one at that, further lending support towards Estj although at the time I found it reasonable to suppose it shouldn't be impossible for there to be an esfp businessman. I'm wondering if that was Se-Ni or Si-Ne plus top Te. I did, though, forget what I originally was going to post. This leads to another question which I might post here or make a new thread.

I would think the SeFi to be more inclined to recognize when they're being a social nuisance(they might even tease you about it) one on one, unless this was in public among a crowd then I'd say you're justified in being uncertain .

 

[somebodiesfool]

I met an INFJ recently. Most mentally unbalanced person I've ever talked to in the past 3 years and I was in a psych ward a few times so, it's saying quite a bit. I don't feel I'd offer a fair take on the question.

 

[PmjPmj]

I have it on good authority that INFJ males are at risk of going off the deep end. I was close myself at one point; my then girlfriend (now wife) saved me, making me realise that I needed help quite drastically. Thus, I am one of the lucky ones.

Growing up around people who deride you simply because they don't understand you is fucking horrible - especially when you have to put up with it for most of your life, y'know?

As I've said elsewhere, I now enjoy the company of intuitives (specifically, Ni users; ENFJ wife, INFJ best friend). Before I met these people, I had not a single intuitive in my life.

No wonder I was so fucking depressed

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

I certainly don't make a huge effort to make it good for her.

maybe is reason why wife cheated on you?

 

[MellifluousSky]

For me it means the entire season four of Twilight Zone in one day. The other Se outlet is competitive cycling, although 98% of my training takes place on an indoor trainer, with a laptop and YouTube at arm's length for audio and video sublimation.

 

[Sirach2:5]

I am a male infj

My inferior se is both a curse and a gift. Our poor se helps us to focus in on one thing but oblivious to our surrounding the two most famous things an INFJ will is
1. The blank trance
2. Reading individual people and their personality or "looking into your soul" as some jokingly call it

I often catch my self doing these or someone I know will. This comes from our powerful internal focus and thinking as well from our poor external sensing.

The trance is when an idea captivates our mind the feeling is almost indescribable but you feel shut off from the entire world and your entire world is the idea you are thinking about and using your knowledge philosophy and morals to analyze the idea because of this we have a deep understanding of that idea however when we do this I literally couldn't tell you what is happening 2 feet in front of me while in that trance thus our poor external se. We are completely out of touch with everything but that idea.

The same goes for when "looking into someone's soul" it is sort of the same thing the only thing that exists is you and the person you are reading and you know nothing about what goes on around you. The could be a talking dog in the room and you wouldn't know it. It is kind of like the deduction skills of an INTP however instead of using external traits to deduce the situation we use internal traits to know who they are.

An example of this happening to me would be one time in college when a good friend of mine became a close friend with this other guy that had come in to our group of friends after spending a couple days they became like best friends. I could this guy was a pice of s**t even though everyone loved him so I pull and voiced my opinion to him. He told me I was crazy and too judgmental. I decide to play along just keep him at arms length. Sure enough 1 year later he turned out to be a lier cheated on one of my friends and an all around ass.

As part of this skill but poor se is I can see what others can't in people but I fail to see how my explaining this effects others. Their poor SE makes it hard to see outside our objective too. Se makes winging it somewhat hard for us.

 

[Melkor]

Male INFJ's are just adorable.
Watching them in action is like watching a puppy made out of water try to fold towels with an emotional investment.


They do seem to be quite thin on the ground though, or at least in denial.I suspect because of societies general dislike of motherly males.

 

[Black Rose]

Male INFJ's are just adorable.
Watching them in action is like watching a puppy made out of water try to fold towels with an emotional investment.


They do seem to be quite thin on the ground though, or at least in denial.I suspect because of societies general dislike of motherly males.

is that how they are?
I don't know, my weekly identity crises makes me doubt everything

Introverted Feeling

 

[PmjPmj]

I wouldn't classify myself as 'motherly', but I am a loving father. I have zero qualms with showing my daughter affection. I mean, that's normal... right?

"Oooh I'm a male and therefore can't show any strength of emotion! Man! Man!"

Say the men with something to hide.

 

[Melkor]

I think there's an unwritten rule about that. You're 100% allowed to melt away for daughters, but for sons you have to pat them gingerly on the head, grunt about smalltalk and yet somehow still engage with them on a deep level. XD
Anything else is cissy talk.

Also I'm quite sure I have something to hide emotionally, but is that a bad thing?

 

[PmjPmj]

Also I'm quite sure I have something to hide emotionally, but is that a bad thing?

Yes.

Release the feels!

 

[Melkor]

B-but what if the feels are about perverse, unnatural things and withholding them is the only thing keeping a monstrous rage at bay!?

 

[Sirach2:5]

I wouldn't classify myself as 'motherly', but I am a loving father. I have zero qualms with showing my daughter affection. I mean, that's normal... right?

"Oooh I'm a male and therefore can't show any strength of emotion! Man! Man!"

Say the men with something to hide.

I would consider us sheepdogs we lead and protect or pack of sheep and are loving and kind to anyone except those that we see as a theat to our sheep buddies

 

[PmjPmj]

I fucking despise sheepdogs. My wife has one, and it really is the biggest wanker.

 

[Black Rose]

B-but what if the feels are about perverse, unnatural things and withholding them is the only thing keeping a monstrous rage at bay!?

rage directed at what?
if it is at yourself why is that bad.
you cannot be yourself if parts are rejected
i rejected myself and it only resolved when i knew it was not bad but needed to change

 

[Oddity]

For me it means the entire season four of Twilight Zone in one day.

Why that season?

My inferior ... is both a curse and a gift.

It always is.

 

[Pizzabeak]

So if anyone wants to know more detail I'd be happy to provide, as I have about half typed out already from last night but didn't finish. We got a new professor on the faculty who seems to be INFJ, and male at that. My question...
How much do Ni oriented (dom or aux) users appreciate Pe people or value their contributions? Of course, I am probably wrong about it all. But sometimes it seems like interaction between the two can be a bit awkward because, generally, I remember Base grove saying that Ni looks far and deep, and so, they already know and are anticipating your responses and what you're going to say. There's almost nothing to say, and they participate out of sheer respect or curiosity for maintaining the relationship in some direction. However, they would be glad to see you show your feelings anyway if it is pure enough and not likely to make you look deranged amongst colleagues.
Does this sound right at all or is it way off/delusional, and based off something else not related to MBTI (or personality theory)?

 

[DrSketchpad]

Found out I'm INFJ a while back after thinking I was INTP (silly Dr.Sketch) so now I have a nice contrasted insight into the differences of Pe/Pi (except for Si. My understanding of Si is shit).

Ni people secretly crave Se people. They're so in tune with their reality and are completely comfortable with interacting with it. They can VERY easily get too stressed with Se dom's quick paced and intense life style however.

Ni vs. Ne:

Ni wants to create its own insight and gain unique perspectives on the things they find important by searching for possibilities within. This is a point that many people don't understand about Ni types. Ni DOES search for many possibilities, it's just that they're sought from within (so the subjectivity makes it seem limited. Really it's just quick like electricity rather than an explosion) and for more thematic and personal topics as opposed to Ne's wide and external search for possibilities on topics that they may not have been previously interested in before.

For me personally, I like Ne types. Well, I like Ne aux's. I tend to either hate or love ENFPs. I haven't had a lot of contact (or maybe any) with ENTPs at all. As for prediction, I dunno. I tend to predict more of sensor's dialogue more accurately. My ENFP friend has social patterns that I can half-foresee.

 

[Pizzabeak]

dang - could you make a post here and add to the discussion? I'd love the additional notes on helping to understand the male INFJ. Specifically, what do you think of INTPs and/or ESFPs from your experience?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

If your first function is Ni, then Se is your inferior function.

Ni is like maths and philosophy, and Se is like living in the moment.

If you do a lot of maths, eventually you get to Chaos theory which says... something or other.

If you do a lot of philosophy, eventually you get to Zen buddhism which says "live in the moment" and also "something or other".

 

[Bugaboo]

If your first function is Ni, then Se is your inferior function.

Ni is like maths and philosophy, and Se is like living in the moment.

If you do a lot of maths, eventually you get to Chaos theory which says... something or other.

If you do a lot of philosophy, eventually you get to Zen buddhism which says "live in the moment" and also "something or other".

Do you know, why is that happening? I'm curious.

 

[GillBatesTheHobo]

How would one describe inferior Se? In a typical day how does this influence one? Does this mean there's more or less desire for stuff to be grounded in a useful framework?

I have an INFJ best friend, he describes it as "Weird cravings" and he will do almost anything to satisfy those weird cravings.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Do you know, why is that happening? I'm curious.

Well, it's like this...

Spoiler

BOO NIGGA I'M A GHOST

 

[Pizzabeak]

I have an INFJ best friend, he describes it as "Weird cravings" and he will do almost anything to satisfy those weird cravings.

Yeah well like Artsu says I suppose that's why some infj can have the tendency to be sedentary sometimes but they can also have a relationship to physical activities such as exercise. But this would be different from an Se dominant' motivation or style for engaging in the activities and may affect one thing or the other but on the whole - this would largely vary from individual to individual. I suppose also any function pair would have the inferior or dominant function give cravings. The infj's must be peculiar because Se. I wonder how this would work in guys and the things they may be prone to. More importantly, I wonder how it would feel; certainly most people have control over it. They like working on stuff but they use Ni instead of the more physical Se.

 

[dang]

dang - could you make a post here and add to the discussion? I'd love the additional notes on helping to understand the male INFJ. Specifically, what do you think of INTPs and/or ESFPs from your experience?

Thanks for requesting my input. I am male, very much an infj, and don't know that much about mbti. I find that at least 90% of what I learn about being an infj does apply to me. Ask me anything. Now that I am 41, I feel that my Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se are all pretty well developed. I secretly want to date an estp. I secretly want to be an estp. My best friend as a kid must have been an estp. I tried to be like him. By the time we were in high school it became impossible. We became total opposites. I think I would be very compatible with an enfp girlfriend. I have heard infj men tend to be attracted to flashy extroverts. I think Amy Schumer is an enfp and I enjoy watching her be interviewed for example. Understanding myself has been a challenging pursuit. My psyche is like a labyrinth. I finally am learning the way through it without getting lost in the middle. What do you want to know? I try to be an open book. Inauthenticity and dishonesty disgust me. Either I am crazy, or the world is crazy. Not sure which. Maybe both. Here is one specific question. Why do I always put off eating? I always wait too long for a meal. I need to work on that. But when I get into stuff I have a hard time breaking away. My mental energy is pretty intense. When I find something stimulating, time flies.

 

[dang]

I fucking despise sheepdogs. My wife has one, and it really is the biggest wanker.

You are funny as fuck.

 

[dang]

I have it on good authority that INFJ males are at risk of going off the deep end. I was close myself at one point; my then girlfriend (now wife) saved me, making me realise that I needed help quite drastically. Thus, I am one of the lucky ones.

Growing up around people who deride you simply because they don't understand you is fucking horrible - especially when you have to put up with it for most of your life, y'know?

As I've said elsewhere, I now enjoy the company of intuitives (specifically, Ni users; ENFJ wife, INFJ best friend). Before I met these people, I had not a single intuitive in my life.

No wonder I was so fucking depressed

I can relate. I used to be suicidal. I have been through hell. Earth used to feel like being stranded on the moon surrounded by dangerous creatures. I am doing much better now. I have never met another real infj that I know of.

 

[PmjPmj]

I wrote all of that before I was typed by a pro (well, 2 - long story) and had my Fe and Te ass backwards. I'm actually an INTJ, and the wife is ENTJ. Derp.

But yeah. I feel those feels, dang. Flying the nest and marrying a fellow NT has allowed me to develop as a person quite profoundly.

Oh, and the sheepdog is still a wanker.

 

[dang]

I wrote all of that before I was typed by a pro (well, 2 - long story) and had my Fe and Te ass backwards. I'm actually an INTJ, and the wife is ENTJ. Derp.

But yeah. I feel those feels, dang. Flying the nest and marrying a fellow NT has allowed me to develop as a person quite profoundly.

Oh, and the sheepdog is still a wanker.

But do you like sheep and dogs in general? What really distinguishes infj and intj beyond the obvious f vs. t? How can you tell them apart in real life?

 

[PmjPmj]

Sheep are underrated - it turns out they're fairly intelligent creatures. Alas, I am allergic to wool. So they can still fuck off.

Dogs are ok, but I don't like owning them. They're smelly, dirty and annoying. I tolerate them for the wife's sake, but we have agreed that when they finally vacate their meat chariots, we shan't be replacing them.

Initially, INFJs and INTJs can be hard to tell apart. It has been my experience that you typically go down the Ni-rabbithole hand in hand, and this dominates interactions for quite a while. The first time I met an INFJ, we talked about all things metaphysical for eight hours straight. We finished up at about 3:30am - and truth be told, we only stopped because our throats were raw from all the talking. Neither of us had ever spoken at such length with another human being.

The differences arise when you come to know each other more intimately. The biggest one, for me at least, is how the INFJ will occasionally want to break away from discussing ideas to ask how I am, and what is going on with the people in my life. Even I don't care about how I am, or how the people in my life are doing (so long as nobody is suffering, whatever). This does on occasion become quite irksome, because I want to discuss far more interesting things than other meatbags and their state of affairs; I do of course honour this to a degree though, as it seems to be necessary for Fe to check up on this kind of thing.

I recall an argument he had at me () because one day he told me that he'd been mugged. He quite obviously seemed unharmed, and his demeanour told me that he'd brushed the issue off. I therefore didn't mention it, and continued chatting about other things. He also dropped some other feeling items on me, like health, fears, whatever. All went over my head.

Days later, I got a scathing email from him asking "What the fuck" is up with me, because he'd told me A, B and C and I hadn't even bothered to ask him how he was. I told him that I didn't perceive any real reason(s) to talk about the issues raised because he seemed fine. Turns out, he wasn't fine at all... which brings me to the next point:

INTJs are direct, almost always.

INFJs tend to beat around the bush - almost always.

I'm not saying that INFJs can't be direct (oh, they certainly can be!) but they'll first and foremost tip-toe around an issue because they are concerned about disrupting harmony, or causing offence, etc. An INTJ will straight up tell you that you're a cunt and why; the INFJ will still tell you such things, but only after they've tried (and failed) to push the matter in more subtle, non-confrontational ways.

Then there's how they are at home. INFJs, at least in my experience, care a great deal about creating a comfortable living space. The INFJs I know are exceptional at interior decor and the like. They care about furnishings, scents, fucking candles - you name it. Their homes are things of beauty - full of personality and warmth.

Meanwhile, I just want shit to be as sterile as possible. The only 'personality' I have is a single Sonic the Hedgehog poster above my computer desk (because I'm a fucking child) and I occasionally change the colour of illumination on my gaming mouse to match my mood. Currently, electric pink - because I'm fabulous, darling.

INTJs are good at reading people. I will cut through someone's bullshit with ease. I can weigh a person up in seconds.

INFJs are good at people in general. They are more overtly caring, amazing at giving gifts, etc. I've been surprised quite a few times by INFJs and their birthday gifts. Things they've picked up on in conversation. INFJs give the most meaningful gifts, in my opinion and experience. Meanwhile, I'm utter shit. I can't even remember my own birthday half the time, let alone anyone else's. Kids aside... but I tend to get those wrong on occasion. I typically have to rely on my ISFJ mother to tell me when birthdays are coming up. Ugh.

I'm sure there's more, but ultimately it boils down to:

INFJs are a lot warmer, and far better with people. They exude warmth and often are almost 'ethereal' in nature. They actually care about you, those close to you and matters of emotion/feelings/what have you. They demonstrate the more compassionate side of humanity. They are very family and friend oriented.

INTJs are a lot colder in appearance. We do care - quite a lot, and rather deeply - but we're far more interested in discussing ideas, and like to keep on the periphery of 'bullshit' people matters. We can still be quite charming when needs be, but 99% of the time we want to be left the fuck alone. Other meatbags tend to be (for me at least) obstacles to navigate around. I keep myself to myself and have no interest in talking about feelings, or whatever. Unlike the INFJs I know, I couldn't give less of a shit about keeping in touch with family. I seldom keep up with friends.

Generalising a bit perhaps, but I'm speaking from personal experience with myself and other INTJs I've known.