Long rant on being doomed and INTP

[gnome]

First off I want to say INTPs are notorious for being unable to communicate their thoughts adequately. I will do my best to describe why we're doomed.

People tend to make quick judgements on us based on our behavior (off-beat, aloof, non-competative, etc). We're often labeled "nerds" and "losers." Most of us don't really even care what clothes we are wearing. Right now I am wearing a Kansas City Chiefs shirt and I don't even watch football. I think I got it for Christmas. Anyway a football fan could see me in this shirt drinking a cheap beer and assume I'm one of his kind right away. If I wear a sleeveless metal shirt and some camo shorts a metal dude will assume I'm one of his kind. Its like other people are rubbing off their superficial judgements upon us. We have childlike imaginations that are tainted by others. In a perfect world where we weren't bound to the restrictions of society we'd be so much happier. Think of what we'd get done if we weren't being judged all the time by others. I had a good good friend who was a nerd. He wore big glasses and was a total nerd just like me. I didn't care how he looked. I noticed when I hung out with him people looked at me and treated me TOTALLY different. I could tell they immediately thought differently of me. If I were to hang out with say a "cool" person or someone I was in a band with people would treat me entirely different.

This is why I have given up on people. I feel like their superficial judgements limit me. I have become a recluse. Not ALL people are like this, but MOST are. Am I comfortable in my own skin? Yes. Its just I have become jaded and cynical. When I was a teenager I was actually happy in my own world not worrying about what others thought. I still don't worry, but I know now how shallow most people are. I used to give people the "benefit of the doubt" that they were good at the core. Now that I am a bit older I realize most people are not.

Its like people have injected their negative opinions into our heads. We never agreed to their social standards yet we live in a world where we have to abide by them. I mean ideally I'd sit at home all day getting drunk and doing drugs, but I am going to have to get a job soon. I will have to deal with people. Ideally I'd sit at home and read articles on the internet, but society says in order for my knowledge to have credibility I need a degree. I really don't care about that piece of paper. The thing I am scared about is getting old and being fucked money/job wise. Like having a job I hate and not even making good money doing it. Oh by the way I have had a good job working at an ISP. Youngest person ever hired there. Offered to promote me, but I quit because it got boring. I was employee of the month without trying. Invited to meetings with people higher up in the company etc.

I've seen a dude who has only played acoustic for 1 month impress girls by strumming simple chords and singing some gay song. If I were to show that same girl a death metal riff that required serious practice she wouldn't understand the complexity. That's the comparison I'll use to explain my thoughts. I understand death metal isn't how you get laid, but I guess since we have obscure tastes we're losers and nerds. I've seen a super super shitty band get a ton of attention due to how they looked. I play in a pretty heavy band and chicks do talk to me, but only because I think I have the INTP chameleon effect and they assume I'm a cool guy in a band. I'm positive that's the case. I have had friends in popular bands (followed trends) and when I hung out with them I definitely blended in. The people believed I was "cool". The band dudes respected me because they knew I could play. That's one killer thing about being an INTP musician, you have the chameleon effect. I have played in so many different bands its not funny. I can play a lot of different styles. Jack of all trades master of none .

So when I hear some asshole picking on a nerd for not getting laid or any of that crap I cringe inside. They simply don't understand. Its not that the nerd isn't getting laid its that the asshole doesn't see what we see. I get sick when I see INTP/INTJ's beating themselves up over that crap too. What if we do want to end up in our parents basements? I personally wouldn't care. I think society has driven most INTPs to be cynical when in reality we're the most pure people out there.

By the way the point of my rant isn't about getting laid. Its about being misunderstood. I wish there was a way we could get through to people. I have been in situations where I tried and failed miserably. I think as INTPs we're doomed. We're viewed as "the loser" and not "the thinker". The only way you aren't viewed as "the loser" and are INTP is if you are rich or good looking and or female.

The morale of the story is obviously to not care what people think of you. This is obvious. The problem becomes you have to be around people that wear your ass down mainly when you work.

What I just described probably wouldn't make any sense to most people. It'll hopefully make sense to fellow INTPs. That rant was verbose, but I had to in order to get my point across.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I think you need to get laid more.

(In all seriousness I agree, of course, y'know it's like we already agree on topics someone just has to point it out lol)

(One thing I wanted to add to though was the getting looks from hanging out with certain people. I hung out with a guy who looked like a stereotypical school terrorist[though I probably looked no better lol], and whenever we would have our eccentric discussions we'd get strange looks from people walking by us.)

P.S.
I think the chameleon effect can be a positive if used right. You could easily make friends and gain trust that way, which could pay off in the future.

 

[Lostwitheal]

There are traps here that people (not just INTP/J's, let's be honest. Probably more common though, granted) can fall into all too easily, no doubt, but it certainly doesn't have to be that way.

With regards to people you work with wearing you down. Yeah, I can get how that could happen if you let it. I guess I counter that by simply not caring about my job and taking a kind of "water off a duck's back" approach to a lot of the interactions I have here. I also go and make a lot of interactions myself to provide myself some entertainment and make things a little more fun.

The chameleon effect truly is a gift though. I do the same thing and can flit easily between some very strange and disparate social groups - one weekend I may be hanging out with some punk lesbians and students, the next I might be at a house party in London with BBC world news correspondants, politicians and lawyers. The rules aren't really all that different either way, you just present yourself slightly differently I guess. Most of these people won't really know you in the true sense at any point, but some small few will, if you want them to. That's enough, I think.

I'm really not sure what the point of this reply was now.

 

[gnome]

I definitely use the chameleon effect to my advantage. Sadly only like 5 people probably have known the real honest me. By that I mean they listened to my bizarre theories and laughed at Frank Zappa songs with me while we got blind drunk.

I actually disagree that I need to get laid more. Its too much goddamn socializing. I hope I don't come off as arrogant to others. Sometimes people try to meet me and stuff and I kind of blow them off. Not to be an asshole or arrogant, but I just get worn out fast from socializing.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Yeah, I agree with you. I found this out too early though. It shouldn't be knowledge gained in high school. Now I'm 16 and unwilling to finish school and I've become a cynical depressed douchebag to others.

The chameleon effect is awesome, but it's also depressing how shallow people are. I quit hanging out on 'THE FIRST FLOOR' of school because that's where all the nerds hang, and from one day to another people were sitting next to me in class because they thought I always got good grades. Oh boy were they wrong. That made me happy for a moment I think. Now I just roam around school
without any goals or standard spots to hang with all my other friends who don't fit in anywhere.

Every time I read a topic like this it's so amusing to see we all think almost the same things to some extent, haha.

 

[gnome]

Yeah, I agree with you. I found this out too early though. It shouldn't be knowledge gained in high school. Now I'm 16 and unwilling to finish school and I've become a cynical depressed douchebag to others.

The chameleon effect is awesome, but it's also depressing how shallow people are. I quit hanging out on 'THE FIRST FLOOR' of school because that's where all the nerds hang, and from one day to another people were sitting next to me in class because they thought I always got good grades. Oh boy were they wrong. That made me happy for a moment I think. Now I just roam around school
without any goals or standard spots to hang with all my other friends who don't fit in anywhere.

Every time I read a topic like this it's so amusing to see we all think almost the same things to some extent, haha.

Dude you're kind of young. Sucks that you found out how fucked we are at 16. I was still moderately happy (ignorance is bliss). I found this out when I was 18. I didn't find out I was like INTP until like 6 months ago though and I'm 23. At 18 I failed classes and didn't go took as few classes as possible. I graduated high school though.

I'm reading another INTP forum and we're at the consensus that INTP's definitely are society's misfits. Most of them bounce from job to job to job. Never really happy with their work. The other people usually pick a career and stick with it and are "successful". We get bored too easy.

 

[Solitaire U.]

The Intpiquity is a slacker's paradise.

*shakes head...walks away.*

 

[EditorOne]

"I understand death metal isn't how you get laid"

Oh, rats.

People at work: There's two broad paths here. You can either do as some have suggested and just not care about the work itself. It's worked out better for me, at least in terms of not going crazy, to go in the other direction and focus on the work rather than the people doing it. If you make your contribution to the work perfect, on time, and easily assimilated by the rest of the process, you've removed one entire area of potential conflict and criticism right off the table. Doesn't matter if it's deep-frying potatoes and filling the ice bin, focus on it as if it were a Japanese meditation garden and every stone had to be not only in the right place but with the proper side facing up. I'm told that's an Eastern, not Western, cultural focus, that whatever you do should be done the best the thing itself requires it to be done rather than "it's not just good, it's good enough" that has permeated Western culture. The example given to me was a janitor sweeping. Upon reflecting -- having wielded a broom as part of a job as a teenager -- I realized that was exactly right, there was indeed a range of ways to use a simple broom, some of them efficient and others more or less just lifting the dust in the air.
Now, it sounds like a little too much detail for us, but it's not, because once you have uncovered the purest essence of doing the job the best it can be done, it becomes like a trance, freeing your mind to escape the workplace even while you're doing the work.
It also -- and don't underestimate the importance of this -- gives you quite a bit of leverage when the braying extroverts make a mess of things and the SFs who seem to dominate middle management are scowling around looking for someone to blame. Your part of the job is perfect. The fries are at exactly 180 for six minutes, the oil is no more than 12 hours old, the portions are perfectly sized, whatever the hell it is, you just point to the results and say "don't look at me, bub, my work product is above reproach." Goes for french fries and NASA rockets. IT's not until you rise above middle management that you start getting into weird things like "well, yeah, the work is perfect, but you are so weird, Harold."
In other words, you avoid nuisance people by tuning them out except for work-related or school-related contact like "need more fries" or "work with three people on this science project." It really does help when they are insufferable.
The other little thing to keep in mind is that it's not their fault they don't get you. For whatever reason, INTP is always going to be somewhat inscrutable to some of the other personality types, and for the same reason, we are the ones doomed to awareness of this and therefore faced with the burden of dealing with it or living with it. Give people some slack, unless they really become offensive, even if it means you have to literally take someone who for some reason can't be ignored aside and say "I know you don't get me, but it's OK, just let it go and don't think I'm something you have to watch out for."
And sometimes you just have to meet people on their own terms. One of my most vivid memories is ancient, the day three scholastic nerds playfully put in a gym class soccer matchup by a bullying coach, against three jocks from our championship (American) football team, fought them to a bleeding-shin, bruised-rib, exhausted stalemate. I couldn't walk without limping for a week, but the frenzy we threw into those 30 minutes when they couldn't get by us to score ended two years of mild disdain from the jock world. We didn't become best buds or anything, but it just got better.
I remember high school pretty well, as you can tell. Didn't much like it. You all have my deepest empathy.

 

[Citizen]

Yeah high-school was pure shit. The school in general is a very bad place to be if you're not "normal". And kids are way more evil than adults, at least overtly. The bullying that occurs in work places is more refined, but it is also something which you can choose to ignore.

I think Editor pretty much nailed it when it comes to how you should handle it. Where I work I pretty much despise or otherwise feel completely at odds with the people working there, not because of any animosity between us or anything (well some people do hate me just for being me but that's life) but I simply ignore them, do my job to the best of my ability, always strive to be perfect at it and ignore the rest of my workplace whenever it isn't required of me to socialize in some way.

To answer gnome more directly: We are misunderstood simply because we are who we are, it is a very basic part. I know for a fact that most people don't constantly overthink things, nor do they analyze everything down to the bare basics, and I'm grateful for that. We can be real hard-asses to be with, since we are so completely at odds with the rest of mankind most of the time. I'd say that you shouldn't try to reach out to everyone, or even the one's being nice to you. It is my empirical understanding that very few can follow my thought processes, even fewer ever understand the conclusions I draw from them, and those that do very rarely if ever understand why I would want to draw such conclusions. I am blabbering, but I hope you get the sense of what I'm saying here.

Being misunderstood by everyone, or having the feeling of that, sucks really bad. Rest assured that there's alot of other people that think so as well, if it helps. Also, I don't think we're all doomed, just some of us. I think alot of us INTPs can actually find some balance in their lives.

 

[Iuanes]

Prudence of Free Spirits

"Prudence of free spirits.— The liberal-minded, men who live for the sake of knowledge alone, will find they soon attain the external goal of their life, their definitive position in relation to society and the state, and will easily be content with, for example, a minor office or an income that just enables them to live; for they will organize their life in such a way that a great transformation of external circumstances, even an overturning of the political order, does not overturn their life with it. Upon all these things they expend as little energy as possible, so that they may dive down into the element of knowledge with all their accumulated strength and as it were with a deep breath. Thus they may hope to dive deep and perhaps get a view of the ground at the bottom.— Of whatever happens to him such a spirit will want to appropriate only the tip; he has no love for things in their entirety, in all the breadth and prolixity of their convolutions, for he has no wish to get himself entangled with them.— He too knows the weekdays of unfreedom, of dependence, of servitude. But from time to time he has to have a Sunday of freedom, or he will find life unendurable.— It is probable that even his love for other people will be prudent and somewhat short-breathed, for he wants to become involved with the world of affection and blindness only insofar as it is necessary for acquiring knowledge. He must trust that the genius of justice will put in a word on behalf of his disciple and protégé if accusing voices should call him poor in love.— There is in his way of living and thinking a refined heroism which disdains to offer itself to the veneration of the great masses, as his coarser brother does, and tends to go silently through the world and out of the world. Whatever labyrinths he may stray through, among whatever rocks his stream may make its tortuous way—if he emerges into the open air he will travel his road bright, light and almost soundlessly and let the sunshine play down into his very depths."



I think you are as much or more blessed as you are doomed. I doubt you would want to trade places with someone else who had a better disposition, reputation or circumstance by way of being a duller being.

Everybody has their burden. I don't think society's disdain and scorn is a high price to pay for what we might inherit.

 

[EditorOne]

Prudence of Free Spirits


Everybody has their burden. I don't think society's disdain and scorn is a high price to pay for what we might inherit.

Yah, well said.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Oh, rats....(remainder truncated to avoid repetitious redundancy)

I'm of the opinion that INTP-ism is highly suited to accomplishing tasks independently (as in single-handed ie: non-team oriented) in stressful environments with little or no margin for error, particularly in the aspects of enduring competence over the long term.

I'm also of the opinion that INTP-ism is highly suited to exaggerating certain stereotypical aspects of it's rhetorical self-image...jadedness chief among them...to distract attention away from it's inerrant weaknesses. INTP's seem prone to experiencing antagonistic resentment over the idea of themselves as assets within greater schemes, especially in subordinate alignment. I believe this is what fuels the majority of stereotypical INTP lament...not being understood/accepted by peers, difficulty getting/maintaining/keeping a job, etc. etc.

With so much expressed evidence of INTPs making concerted efforts to prolong situations allowing them to languish in the self-centered irresponsibility of student-dom floating around this place, I find all the 'misfit social outcast' bullshit just a tad contradictory. Too many here proclaim themselves non-conformists from within the socio-political bureaucratic comfort of their univ. dorms. If being a hypocrite ever becomes a paid profession, the entire planet will become INTP paradise.

I'm unconvinced that INTP does not adhere to the status quo.

Not surprising though...Truth does so love to hide behind Irony.

Open your eyes, young and fearful INTP...your hypotheses and conceptualizations will amount to nothing if you are unwilling to pick up the shovel and prove them.

 

[Stoic Beverage]

I don't know if I'd say "doomed". I mean, sure, you inhabit a planet with billions of people that are content to label you and never think twice of it, but hey. There are worse things.

I'm not sure what these things are, but I'm almost positive they could potentially exist.

 

[Iuanes]

I'm of the opinion that INTP-ism is highly suited to accomplishing tasks independently (as in single-handed ie: non-team oriented) in stressful environments with little or no margin for error, particularly in the aspects of enduring competence over the long term.

I'm also of the opinion that INTP-ism is highly suited to exaggerating certain stereotypical aspects of it's rhetorical self-image...jadedness chief among them...to distract attention away from it's inerrant weaknesses. INTP's seem prone to experiencing antagonistic resentment over the idea of themselves as assets within greater schemes, especially in subordinate alignment. I believe this is what fuels the majority of stereotypical INTP lament...not being understood/accepted by peers, difficulty getting/maintaining/keeping a job, etc. etc.

With so much expressed evidence of INTPs making concerted efforts to prolong situations allowing them to languish in the self-centered irresponsibility of student-dom floating around this place, I find all the 'misfit social outcast' bullshit just a tad contradictory. Too many here proclaim themselves non-conformists from within the socio-political bureaucratic comfort of their univ. dorms. If being a hypocrite ever becomes a paid profession, the entire planet will become INTP paradise.

I'm unconvinced that INTP does not adhere to the status quo.

Not surprising though...Truth does so love to hide behind Irony.

Open your eyes, young and fearful INTP...your hypotheses and conceptualizations will amount to nothing if you are unwilling to pick up the shovel and prove them.

You also hear alot of people here flunking college, flunking highschool, or otherwise just barely scraping by. I was kicked out my very comfortable dorm. I don't see that much hypocrisy in terms of material situations. INTP's are more inclined, or better suited to 'studentdom' from my bare understanding of the functions and their natural career proclivities.

You are absolutely right in terms of developing a persona, or a resentment based off what one might experience from their contact with the world. And you are right that INTP's would be prone to this.

 

[gnome]

You also hear alot of people here flunking college, flunking highschool, or otherwise just barely scraping by. I was kicked out my very comfortable dorm. I don't see that much hypocrisy in terms of material situations. INTP's are more inclined, or better suited to 'studentdom' from my bare understanding of the functions and their natural career proclivities.

You are absolutely right in terms of developing a persona, or a resentment based off what one might experience from their contact with the world. And you are right that INTP's would be prone to this.

I'd say the deal was rigged. Life for an INTP that is. Are there successful INTP's that lead happy lives? Yes. Is it rare? If I was gambling I'd put money that most INTP's aren't happy. That's why I am saying we're doomed.

"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know." -Ernest Hemingway

 

[TheHmmmm]

I'd say the deal was rigged. Life for an INTP that is. Are there successful INTP's that lead happy lives? Yes. Is it rare? If I was gambling I'd put money that most INTP's aren't happy. That's why I am saying we're doomed.

"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know." -Ernest Hemingway

Lol, go google famous INTP's, plenty are successful.

Damn, since when did INTPf become a pity palace? The game is not rigged, you just have different abilities you need to use to accomplish different things. You have different obstacles to overcome, like slacker-ness.

Also, pro-tip, the "woe is me I'm too intelligent for my own good" is probably the most detrimental attitude to have in life. It'll get you nowhere and will piss off just about everyone. I know plenty of intelligent people who are very popular and can make friends with just about anyone. Also, if you're going to say you're intelligent, be prepared to back it up in the future. Just saying.

Go do something you're good at. Drop the attitude and you'll probably make more friends if you're really hurting for some more.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Lol, go google famous INTP's, plenty are successful.

Well yeah, assuming that all those are correct typings, which they are most likely not. There is a heavy T/N bias.

 

[gnome]

Lol, go google famous INTP's, plenty are successful.

Damn, since when did INTPf become a pity palace? The game is not rigged, you just have different abilities you need to use to accomplish different things. You have different obstacles to overcome, like slacker-ness.

Also, pro-tip, the "woe is me I'm too intelligent for my own good" is probably the most detrimental attitude to have in life. It'll get you nowhere and will piss off just about everyone. I know plenty of intelligent people who are very popular and can make friends with just about anyone. Also, if you're going to say you're intelligent, be prepared to back it up in the future. Just saying.

Go do something you're good at. Drop the attitude and you'll probably make more friends if you're really hurting for some more.

I don't think I am intelligent. The quote was just there to show that usually "smart" people aren't happy. INTP people are typically smart, not always.

I honestly don't have an attitude and I have chances to make friends all the time. I have just become insanely cynical. Its something I hope I grow out of. I think I am just in a rut.

The thread is not really designed to provoke self-pity, I am just making an observation. I was on another INTP forum reading a thread and it seemed like most INTPs weren't fully happy. Most of them were 30-40 and had gone through various career changes in life. Most were unhappy with their job. Most became insanely bored insanely fast with their current job and moved around all life. It seemed like most had nothing to show for all of their knowledge and skills. People of other personality types typically pick a career and run with it for years.

I am doing something I am "good" at. I play guitar for a band that gigs regularly. I am slightly less miserable when I do that. I just realize that I'll never make a real living doing it. Although if I stick with it I have heard of at least $300 guarantees per gig (in this town at least). If you combined several gigs of that with giving lessons etc it might be possible to scrape by. My bass player does it, but he lives in conditions that most of you wouldn't let your dog live in. One of the bands here in my city went on a tour with a big death metal band in Europe and Asia. They came home with $30,000 supposedly (that's what their guitar player told us). They have been doing this for over 10 years though. The $30,000 was split between 5 members keep that in mind.

In real life I don't think I come off as a jaded prick who has a chip in his shoulder. I think I am genuinely a decent person to be around. Most of my cynical bullshit comes out on the internet. I think I am that cynical realist who sees what the world is about and wants to have as little to do with it as possible.

 

[BigApplePi]

gnome. You CAN communicate yourself adequately. You just did. You are not doomed but life is hard. I believe myself to be an INTP. Can I communicate? Depends on whom I talk to. Try hanging with thinking people. Those who don't care to think or like to think ... how can you expect any ongoing rapport?

Not sure I can generalize. I'm going to guess thinking has a narrow focus. So expect most not to mesh with you. (There are too many incompatible people.) Some will though. Some of the time. Run with them.

 

[Iuanes]

I'd say the deal was rigged. Life for an INTP that is. Are there successful INTP's that lead happy lives? Yes. Is it rare? If I was gambling I'd put money that most INTP's aren't happy. That's why I am saying we're doomed.

"Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know." -Ernest Hemingway

Even if it is, so what?

People born on mountains don't complain about the slant and make flat houses that fall, they adapt because there is no other option.

I'm not going to accuse you of whining or self-pitying because you don't seem to be playing that game, but the faster you not only accept things but actually embrace them the less gloom you'll feel, and the less probability the outcome will be doom.

Think about self fulfilling prophecies.

Think about your values versus most other people's. Think about actually embracing those values or at least understanding what they cost and what they're worth to you.

 

[pjoa09]

I think you got to relax a little. Trying to fit in never helps.

You have to walk over the ledge and see how far you will fall or you will never know its a dream. Figurative speech right there.

Being socially awkward, I try to avoid conversation and eventually I had to and still I try to avoid but that's the way it goes.

Doesn't playing guitar make your day better?

I normally get ecstatic after doing little jazzy blues improvisation.

Oddly enough, I don't enjoy listening to metal. I like jazz and lo-fi when no one is around and when there are people I go for RnB because that's the closest it actually gets.

Have you tried computers? I notice you run a Mac and Safari so I presume you aren't so geeky that you tried to be different there.

Guess you just got to live with it and if some job bores you move on to the next. INTPs have a knack for noticing the dirt on that perfect window and you just got to know that. BTW, about getting laid.. which I have never. Sad poor me. You don't perform a complex lick and hope she'd think you would do a complex lick on her pussy. If it sounds great you tried it hard for her chances are she will enjoy it. But I am sure the guy did something more trying to impress a girl sounds fucking retarded to me by all means because I don't see how playing a guitar in real life would ever help or even in Darwinian Theory, I am sure making noise wasn't exactly going to save your ass from a saber tooth tiger. Let's say dinosaur. I like saying that it's just the funniest damn thing to think back to when you were in Pre-K.

 

[gnome]

I think you got to relax a little. Trying to fit in never helps.

You have to walk over the ledge and see how far you will fall or you will never know its a dream. Figurative speech right there.

Being socially awkward, I try to avoid conversation and eventually I had to and still I try to avoid but that's the way it goes.

Doesn't playing guitar make your day better?

I normally get ecstatic after doing little jazzy blues improvisation.

Oddly enough, I don't enjoy listening to metal. I like jazz and lo-fi when no one is around and when there are people I go for RnB because that's the closest it actually gets.

Have you tried computers? I notice you run a Mac and Safari so I presume you aren't so geeky that you tried to be different there.

Guess you just got to live with it and if some job bores you move on to the next. INTPs have a knack for noticing the dirt on that perfect window and you just got to know that. BTW, about getting laid.. which I have never. Sad poor me. You don't perform a complex lick and hope she'd think you would do a complex lick on her pussy. If it sounds great you tried it hard for her chances are she will enjoy it. But I am sure the guy did something more trying to impress a girl sounds fucking retarded to me by all means because I don't see how playing a guitar in real life would ever help or even in Darwinian Theory, I am sure making noise wasn't exactly going to save your ass from a saber tooth tiger. Let's say dinosaur. I like saying that it's just the funniest damn thing to think back to when you were in Pre-K.

I'm always relaxed until some extroverted asshole somehow lights my fuse. That hasn't happened in years though.

I am actually way into computers. OSX has GCC and you can compile anything that runs on *nix in OSX. No GTK/QT though. I can run all the same terminal stuff though. I actually like OSX a lot. I'm not a macfag. Whatever floats your boat.

Yeah I never get laid either. Every time I have I have been drunk and or on drugs. I have only been with one chick sober. Girls do flirt with me on occasion, but I don't even bother flirting back anymore. I almost view it like small talk. I wanna get the hell out of there asap.

Sometimes when girls do flirt with me I think to myself that I am probably one of the first INTP people she has met. Because statistically you won't meet an INTP in real life unless you go heavy into math, heavy into science or heavy into computers. If a chick talks to me I realize that she's going to be like bewildered by my behavior. The exchange won't go down the way she's used to. I guess that could come off as mysterious possibly. The last chick I met at a party ended up initiating a make out session and gave me her number.

 

[pjoa09]

I'm always relaxed until some extroverted asshole somehow lights my fuse. That hasn't happened in years though.

I am actually way into computers. OSX has GCC and you can compile anything that runs on *nix in OSX. No GTK/QT though. I can run all the same terminal stuff though. I actually like OSX a lot. I'm not a macfag. Whatever floats your boat.

Yeah I never get laid either. Every time I have I have been drunk and or on drugs. I have only been with one chick sober. Girls do flirt with me on occasion, but I don't even bother flirting back anymore. I almost view it like small talk. I wanna get the hell out of there asap.

Sometimes when girls do flirt with me I think to myself that I am probably one of the first INTP people she has met. Because statistically you won't meet an INTP in real life unless you go heavy into math, heavy into science or heavy into computers. If a chick talks to me I realize that she's going to be like bewildered by my behavior. The exchange won't go down the way she's used to. I guess that could come off as mysterious possibly. The last chick I met at a party ended up initiating a make out session and gave me her number.

LOL, MACFAG!!!! haha Yeah but I always wanted a Macbook Pro just the price tag is little more than twice the price of a Thinkpad R61 (I love how black it is).

The thought of it being built on UNIX is drool-worthy and I like the options of viewing for Finder.
And how you find yourself like a child every time you go and tryout the latest Apple product.

But why Safari? Its better than Firefox? I guess you just can't be bothered.

You did mention you get drunk and high frequently which may indicate a bad crowd.

I was hungover a couple of hours ago so I think that should take away my credibility somewhat.

You are lucky but I am 19 still so still got sometime before more intimate physical contact with females. Being INTx isn't attractive and that is a fact I believe. We laugh alone.

I stand with the Chameleon.

The most contact I got yesterday was some random girl grabbed my hand and oddly I did react egotistically. I walked on and any recurrent thoughts were dismissed under the excuse "She's drunk". I try to think that no serious consequences are there to approaching women in clubs but I just find another excuse.

 

[gnome]

The most contact I got yesterday was some random girl grabbed my hand and oddly I did react egotistically. I walked on and any recurrent thoughts were dismissed under the excuse "She's drunk". I try to think that no serious consequences are there to approaching women in clubs but I just find another excuse.

Dude fuck it. She's drunk who cares. I do the same shit though. I know exactly what you're talking about reacting egotistically. Wait till a chick grabs your hand and sucks your finger blow job style.

Yeah OSX rules. I run safari because I don't give a fuck. Safari 5 is good enough. It has a good ad block extension that works as good as the firefox one so I was like fuck it.

If you're only 19 you're at the prime drinking age. In fact you're behind. A lot of people start going insane at like 16. At 19 I found a liquor store that would sell to me with no ID somehow. I was getting hammered every night. Actually you're not really behind you're in the middle if you start now.

I'm 23 and its already starting to look dismal. By that I mean if I go to a bar to get hammered and meet chicks its not a good scene. Some already have kids... a lot are already getting worn out. I can't imagine what's been in there at times. A lot of people who aren't INTx were out doing shit way before we were because most of us were not interested in partying/hanging out in high school. I know I wasn't.

Oddly enough INTP's are most likely to commit drug and alcohol policy violations on college campuses. According to this :
http://www.personalitydesk.com/type-profile/intp-architect

 

[SkyWalker]

i want to help you, but to do that i need to burn you:


there is a virus in your mind that makes you think you are superior and this is causing it all. your text is full of defense about why you are superior, go back and read it yourself. your ongoing intent is: i lost, but i am still superior.

just accept the loss and move on so you can win next time, you still didnt accept the loss, you are in fantasy land instead. fantasy land is trying to convince you that you didnt lose, because in fantasy land you won even though you didnt
---

- they blame you for not seeing what they see, that is why they think they are superior
- you blame them for not seeing what you see, that is why you think you are superior

but both you & them are the same: blind in one eye (they lack left, you lack right)

try to see what they see (it is possible for you to develop that), and then they cant blame you anymore.

if you are such an intelligent chameleon that can pretend to be anything, why dont you stop drinking and why the fuck don't you take charge? what are you waiting for?? you have the brains to get any life you want!! just design your life (realistcally) as you want it. why sit there and complain??

you could be truly superior, so superior that you dont even have to mention it anymore.

 

[gnome]

i want to help you, but to do that i need to burn you:


there is a virus in your mind that makes you think you are superior and this is causing it all. your text is full of defense about why you are superior, go back and read it yourself. your ongoing intent is: i lost, but i am still superior.

just accept the loss and move on so you can win next time, you still didnt accept the loss, you are in fantasy land instead. fantasy land is trying to convince you that you didnt lose, because in fantasy land you won even though you didnt
---

- they blame you for not seeing what they see, that is why they think they are superior
- you blame them for not seeing what you see, that is why you think you are superior

but both you & them are the same: blind in one eye (they lack left, you lack right)

try to see what they see (it is possible for you to develop that), and then they cant blame you anymore.

if you are such an intelligent chameleon that can pretend to be anything, why dont you stop drinking and why the fuck don't you take charge? what are you waiting for?? you have the brains to get any life you want!! just design your life (realistcally) as you want it. why sit there and complain??

you could be truly superior, so superior that you dont even have to mention it anymore.

I agree with you 100% and I am trying to see things from other people's eyes as much as I can. I have to say sometimes people pat me on the back and I don't even acknowledge it. Nothing is ever good enough for me. I always have unrealistic expectations of myself. I am actually forgiving on others. When I make a mistake though it bugs me. Its like I'm constantly swimming against the current. I don't seem to respond well to praise or criticism.

That's part of the reason I don't even try anymore. I realize that nothing I end up doing is ever going to be good enough so why try. I'm never happy with anything I do. I'm a total under achiever.

If I could erase that virus you speak of I could do a lot more. I don't know how I got that thing programmed in my brain but its there. People speak of it as the pessimistic voice in their head.

Isn't this a trait most INTPs have though?

 

[pjoa09]

If you're only 19 you're at the prime drinking age. In fact you're behind. A lot of people start going insane at like 16. At 19 I found a liquor store that would sell to me with no ID somehow. I was getting hammered every night. Actually you're not really behind you're in the middle if you start now.

lol I started drinking and clubbing at 17 . Then I went 6 months completely sober before turning 19. I occasionally smoke a cig and did weed twice. The sober streak was because I had a driving license and that just kept me busy because I am a car fanatic.

Now it's just weird sometimes because I am trying to get the flow again and I find myself frowning in a club after 3 drinks thinking to myself why I can't blow up into some frantic hand waving mess.

But that link, low grades are definitely my specialty.

 

[Lobstrich]

You guys keep talking about the "chameleon effect" As if it's a good thing.. No way is it a good thing. You should not strive to conform just to get friends or whatever your goal is. Truth is everything.

This is what I live my life by. It doesn't bring alot of positive stuff though. Most people will not like you, because you don't kiss their ass and you don't 'fake yourself' but the few people that do like you.. Like you for who you are.

 

[Moocow]

You guys keep talking about the "chameleon effect" As if it's a good thing.. No way is it a good thing. You should not strive to conform just to get friends or whatever your goal is. Truth is everthing.

This is what I live my life by. It doesn't bring alot of positive stuff though. Most people will not like you, because you don't kiss their ass and you don't 'fake yourself' but the few people that do like you.. Like you for who you are.

Yeah, thanks for mentioning this. I know I'm not the only one that feels like my automatic chameleon tendency absorbs other people's miserable lifestyle choices against my better knowledge.

Isn't there something called self-respect?

 

[Lobstrich]

Yeah, thanks for mentioning this. I know I'm not the only one that feels like my automatic chameleon tendency absorbs other people's miserable lifestyle choices against my better knowledge.

Isn't there something called self-respect?

I guess not, hehe.. But I don't have this "chameleon effect" Well, I do on some level. Say I'm at my grandparents house, I just switch over to a very polite and well spoken version of myself, I still hold the same beliefs, though. But I NEVER act as something I am not.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Lobstrich, the Chameleon Effect is not a bad thing. You say it is conforming to something we are not, I say it is bringing out a part of us that is naturally present. I never feel fake, and I am never perceived that way. I just go with the flow and stay my adapting self. With my ability I am able to be involved in any activity I wish without the limitations of stereotypes. Is that not a bad thing?

 

[Lobstrich]

Lobstrich, the Chameleon Effect is not a bad thing. You say it is conforming to something we are not, I say it is bringing out a part of us that is naturally present. I never feel fake, and I am never perceived that way. I just go with the flow and stay my adapting self. With my ability I am able to be involved in any activity I wish without the limitations of stereotypes. Is that not a bad thing?

Maybe I've I've misunderstood what "Chameleon effect" is. I've never encounted the word before, to be honest, only in this thread.

But no, being adaptive is not a bad thing, why would you twist my words and make them say something as ignorant as "Being open minded is bad" I never said that. 'adapting' to the point where you compromise your own principles only to "go with the flow" is a very bad thing in my opinion.

Generally though, I still don't think adapting (even if it isn't 'compromising') is a bad thing, you should be yourself! Take the opposing opinion, stand up for who you are and what you believe in. Yeah I know that sounded a bit cheesy, but that's really what I think.

 

[Citizen]

Taking the opposing opinion can lead to alot of conflict though lobstrich. What if you have such uncompromising views on life that no one want to be close to you unless you adapt to them?

Take it from one who took it as far as he could, the chameleon effect or adaptation or whatever you wanna call it is a blessing for living your life without constantly fighting everything around youl.

 

[Lobstrich]

Taking the opposing opinion can lead to alot of conflict though lobstrich. What if you have such uncompromising views on life that no one want to be close to you unless you adapt to them?

Take it from one who took it as far as he could, the chameleon effect or adaptation or whatever you wanna call it is a blessing for living your life without constantly fighting everything around youl.

Conflict breed creativeness. I want conflict.

Besides, I still don't want to adapt.. If people do not want to me close to be unless I conform and accept their views as mine. I will have nothing of them.
If a relationship (be it a friendship or a romantic one) is based off of me conforming and adapting just to get by and make them like/love me, then there is nothing true about their love. They don't love me they love what I am projecting myself as. To be honest, I am uncompromising when it comes to who I am (I do have those things where I adapt my way of speech and my attitude, depending on what kind of people I'm with) But I prefer the feeling of being lonely much more than the pathetic feeling I get when I'm 'selling myself out'

I know I'm boiling down "Chameleon effect" down to something more extreme than you guys really intend it to be. But to me, it's all essentially the same. In this case.

 

[pjoa09]

The Chameleon Effect isn't being someone else. At least for me it is toning down my personality a notch so that I don't get so much attention. I talk to myself when no one is around and even dance. I don't perceive these characteristics subtle enough to be presented to the public. I don't want to baffle the public with my debates and obsessions with cars and at certain times a crush.
The Chameleon Effect achieves what INTPs want. They allow us to be out of the spotlight. Without The Chameleon Effect we would be in a certain light, whether it be here's the weirdo or here's the douchebag.

 

[Lobstrich]

The Chameleon Effect isn't being someone else. At least for me it is toning down my personality a notch so that I don't get so much attention. I talk to myself when no one is around and even dance. I don't perceive these characteristics subtle enough to be presented to the public. I don't want to baffle the public with my debates and obsessions with cars and at certain times a crush.
The Chameleon Effect achieves what INTPs want. They allow us to be out of the spotlight. Without The Chameleon Effect we would be in a certain light, whether it be here's the weirdo or here's the douchebag.

I can follow you on that! But WHY do you tone down your personality? Why don't you dance when other people are around? If you feel like dancing, then dance! Why should you care about being in the spotlight?
I must admit that I don't like being in the spotlight myself, but I'd much rather be in the spotlight doing something I enjoy that not be in the spotlight while holding back the things I enjoy to do.

 

[Lobstrich]

The Chameleon Effect isn't being someone else. At least for me it is toning down my personality a notch so that I don't get so much attention. I talk to myself when no one is around and even dance. I don't perceive these characteristics subtle enough to be presented to the public. I don't want to baffle the public with my debates and obsessions with cars and at certain times a crush.
The Chameleon Effect achieves what INTPs want. They allow us to be out of the spotlight. Without The Chameleon Effect we would be in a certain light, whether it be here's the weirdo or here's the douchebag.

I can follow you on that! But WHY do you tone down your personality? Why don't you dance when other people are around? If you feel like dancing, then dance! Why should you care about being in the spotlight?
I must admit that I don't like being in the spotlight myself, but I'd much rather be in the spotlight doing something I enjoy that not be in the spotlight while holding back the things I enjoy to do.

 

[Zensunni]

I'm of the opinion that INTP-ism is highly suited to accomplishing tasks independently (as in single-handed ie: non-team oriented) in stressful environments with little or no margin for error, particularly in the aspects of enduring competence over the long term.

I'm also of the opinion that INTP-ism is highly suited to exaggerating certain stereotypical aspects of it's rhetorical self-image...jadedness chief among them...to distract attention away from it's inerrant weaknesses. INTP's seem prone to experiencing antagonistic resentment over the idea of themselves as assets within greater schemes, especially in subordinate alignment. I believe this is what fuels the majority of stereotypical INTP lament...not being understood/accepted by peers, difficulty getting/maintaining/keeping a job, etc. etc.

With so much expressed evidence of INTPs making concerted efforts to prolong situations allowing them to languish in the self-centered irresponsibility of student-dom floating around this place, I find all the 'misfit social outcast' bullshit just a tad contradictory. Too many here proclaim themselves non-conformists from within the socio-political bureaucratic comfort of their univ. dorms. If being a hypocrite ever becomes a paid profession, the entire planet will become INTP paradise.

I'm unconvinced that INTP does not adhere to the status quo.

Not surprising though...Truth does so love to hide behind Irony.

Open your eyes, young and fearful INTP...your hypotheses and conceptualizations will amount to nothing if you are unwilling to pick up the shovel and prove them.

Nice.

 

[LAM]

I somehow seemed to have got over my "intp-ness". I just stopped thinking about it and ended up being a lot more satisfied with life. I think perhaps you need to stop labelling and worrying and just to be cliched "be yourself." Go with what you think is right and eventually you'll find people who like you for who you are and appreciate you and MBTI has nothin to do with it. It is the person that is important and not their type or intelligence or any other attributes. Stop this crap which sounds to me as if you believe you are somehow fated to fail. The only person who decides your fate is you.

Wow im so cliched in this post ):

 

[Melkor]

Such a pity I'm too sleepy for long rants.

I only ever have monosyllabic responses anyway.

 

[Architect]

I'd say the deal was rigged. Life for an INTP that is. Are there successful INTP's that lead happy lives? Yes. Is it rare? If I was gambling I'd put money that most INTP's aren't happy. That's why I am saying we're doomed.

I wouldn't call life ('The Game') rigged, rather that naturally as a rare and somewhat extreme/unusual type we won't generally fit in. But here's the kicker, I do think that the more we learn to adapt to the S dominated world, the more that will, paradoxically, bring out the best in us.

For example, I'm a successful happy INTP. I have a wonderful INFJ wife and INTP son, love my job which has made me a lot of money (I'm now financially independent), and have many accomplishments in different fields (science, music, engineering.) Typical INTP, my hobbies are music and photography, and I write software otherwise. Now I wasn't always well adjusted, it took some time and various circumstances to get myself to this place.

How did I get these happy circumstances? One key I think is that the degree that I learned to integrate with the Sensor world. I was raised in an all sensor family (both immediate and extended), and all my friends were sensors. My (now wife) was the first intuitive I really got to know, and as an adult I have a INTP friend at work as well. Now in one sense, my growing up was torturous. I was always on the outside, and my needs were never met. But I learned how to beat the Sensors at their own game. My work is Sensor dominated, and I advanced farther and make more than most of them who've been there far longer. Same with investing, I bet against the crowd and have made some killings.

Now my son is in the opposite position, he's raised in a small family of all Intuitives, and has an INTP father who knows what's up. I'm teaching him how to play the game and win, while still keeping true to himself.

To wrap up, in midlife I've really been diving into my INTP predilections, which is probably unusual as most people learn to integrate (develop their inferior functions) in this time of life. For me it's opposite, but it is true that having well developed inferior functions should strengthen your primary functions, in addition to keeping you integrated in the world.