Letters of Difference

[dark]

Not really sure this thread should go, but I was thinking, do most people's immediate families they grow up in look similiar to mine or was I thrown into hell? I an INTP, my brother an ISTP, mother INFJ, father ESFP, grandfather ESTP... that's all I know as of now. But is that a normal way things are set up? Because I am going to go off on a guess and say S people are rude in general, because that's my experience. If that is true, what are N's in comparison? I don't think anyone I know understand what it's like to see all these questions and want nothing but answers, they have said I was doomed to hell as far back as I can remember when I was a child, so long ago. Good thing I don't believe in fairy tales. If this is average, then I will have to conclude[really dislike this word] that personality types have no correlation with genes or any other reproduction I am probably missing right now. So, these types would have a system of transferance all to their own when we humans are being organized and created in the cells.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

My grandfather was an ISTJ he was awesome. XD

 

[Cavallier]

Fine. This is the theory I've come up with:

Brains are fucking complicated. Even if personality type was strictly genetic I doubt it could be plotted on a Punnett square you know?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Your problem may be the language barrier. I think that while Ss may have a selective word choice they are more concerned with actions. So if you don't speak the S language you may feel offended by what they do. For instance, making bold moves like slamming the door or throwing something probably means more than a swear to an S. On the other hand Ns place more emphasis on words, so insults mean much more than slamming a door or stomping your feet.

Either way, be glad you have two introverts in your family.

 

[Cavallier]

^There is some truth to what you say. My ISTJ friend is affected strongly by slammed doors and such. She agonizes over things people have said but it's because she doesn't know what they meant by the things they said. However, if somebody is angry and stomps off she is certain she knows why and is deeply offended/worried/freaked out.

 

[Farion]

Your problem may be the language barrier. I think that while Ss may have a selective word choice they are more concerned with actions. So if you don't speak the S language you may feel offended by what they do. For instance, making bold moves like slamming the door or throwing something probably means more than a swear to an S. On the other hand Ns place more emphasis on words, so insults mean much more than slamming a door or stomping your feet.

Either way, be glad you have two introverts in your family.

That makes so much sense! My mom is ISTJ (I'll get back to the OP in a moment) and she freaks out (hyperbole) whenever I slam a door, even if I didn't mean to/just shut it slightly more than quietly.

Anyways:

Quick disclaimer: There are many variations of different letters so naturally everything I say should be assumed to have a "generally" in front of it.

S's tend to be more rigid in terms of rules and traditions. (Back to my mom) One problem my mom and I had was with shoes and their placement. I used to like to put my shoes behind the couch where I spent most of my time, in the central room of the house. My mom thought they were 'in the way' and they should be put in my room or by the hall tree. Logically, I told her, I never put my shoes on in my room, and I always put them on before I pass the hall tree, so they should go where I always put them on: behind the couch. This went on for years, neither of us ever bending, to the point that she must have known that it was pointless to argue, but still she did. Fortunately for both our sanities, a new room was built where I now spend all my time and, consequently, where I now put my shoes behind (or even in front of!) the couch, and my mom never sees them.

Now, to extrapolate: if you break a rule that an S abides by, that S will become angry and frustrated, likely leading to rudeness in response to your perceived rudeness. Especially if said rules involve any sort of immortal soul/other divine entity. Especially if you live in Texas (Do you?).

Don't you love making sweeping generalizations? Especially offensive ones? I do.

 

[Chewy]

I am going to go off on a guess and say S people are rude in general, because that's my experience.

I find the SJ combination hard to deal with (ISTJs and ESTJs); almost as hard as dealing with ESFJs.

 

[dark]

Well I know my mother an INFJ is really concerned with things like tradition and all, like the shoes thing. But after learning about the personality watched my family and came up with what I thought they would be then I talked them into taking the tests, used a couple for generalizations and found out I was correct. I don't even know what my point was there. But I have spent the last 4 hours trying to explain some logic to my family which they couldn't understand they had exactly the same opinion, yet they refused to understand the other side of the argument and keep using redundant repitition of similiar arguements to try to prove what they could prove in 2 sentences. It all really started because they were using words out of context that didn't even mean what they thought they meant, and were using incorrect logic on topics they only knew some of the information on... sigh, this really sucks. And everyone looks at me like the bad person and says, "You think you always right yadayadayada." Then they go on about how I not really as smart as I think I am, I always laugh because they don't understand they are just asserting my original point in the first place, and that I know I am not really intelligent etc etc. it goes on in a loop that they can't seem to understand I don't care anymore. Are INTP doomed to argue with people?

 

[Chewy]

Either way, be glad you have two introverts in your family.

Maybe this depends on the person (on the INTP), and on what type of introverts they (other family members) are? I guess some INTPs are drawn to most of the other introverted types; other INTPs can connect well with some introverted types, but clearly not with others.

The two introverted types that seem to clash with me the most are ISTJs and, to a lesser extent, INTJs -- not always, but a lot of the time.

[Perhaps we can include extended relatives in this thread too?]

Most of my family members -- immediate and extended -- are extroverts. One of the other very few introverts (from what I know of my family tree) is an older female cousin of mine; she's an ISTJ. Ever since we were young, certain extended relatives would sit us together during get-togethers, birthdays and other events, presumably thinking that, because we were both introverts, we would get along.

I hated it. We were, and have always been, so incredibly different. Talking to her is like talking to a rude cop, or supervisor or judge with tunnel vision; just always correcting those around her, about anything, all the time. I always used to think, why? What the hell gives her the right? Why does she feel so entitled to do this? She puts authority, rules, regulations and order above all else, and feels that everyone else should too. I don't. She needs security. I need autonomy. She has to have the last word. I can easily agree to disagree. She thinks I'm too mellow. I find her too serious.

Over the years, I've discovered how to get along with her, but it always feels so forced, and it turns into one big headache. In the end, I think for both of us, it's not worth the effort.

 

[Chewy]

Well I know my mother an INFJ is really concerned with things like tradition and all, like the shoes thing. But after learning about the personality watched my family and came up with what I thought they would be then I talked them into taking the tests, used a couple for generalizations and found out I was correct. I don't even know what my point was there. But I have spent the last 4 hours trying to explain some logic to my family which they couldn't understand they had exactly the same opinion, yet they refused to understand the other side of the argument and keep using redundant repitition of similiar arguements to try to prove what they could prove in 2 sentences. It all really started because they were using words out of context that didn't even mean what they thought they meant, and were using incorrect logic on topics they only knew some of the information on... sigh, this really sucks. And everyone looks at me like the bad person and says, "You think you always right yadayadayada." Then they go on about how I not really as smart as I think I am, I always laugh because they don't understand they are just asserting my original point in the first place, and that I know I am not really intelligent etc etc. it goes on in a loop that they can't seem to understand I don't care anymore.

Yeah, man. I hear you.

Are INTP doomed to argue with people?

I would say that many INTPs here, and in general, would have different views on this.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Are INTP doomed to argue with people?

With SJs it's just a matter of time, with SPs it's banter, with NFs it's because of repression, and with NTs it's a debate.

Maybe this depends on the person (on the INTP), and on what type of introverts they (other family members) are? I guess some INTPs are drawn to most of the other introverted types; other INTPs can connect well with some introverted types, but clearly not with others.

The reason I say that is because introverts can relate to each other through energy levels, regardless of the letter. There are all sorts of combinations of letters that will determine compatibility, but for the most part, introverts are not repelled, actually attracted or relaxed, by each others energy state. This allows for peaceful attempts to relate to each other, whereas between an introvert and extrovert, one would have to decrease or increase his energy.

 

[Cavallier]

Always the SJ hate. My closest friend for the last 7 years is an ISTJ. She needs security and she definitely likes to find and point out innacuracies in other people's logic. That last bit has been a boon to our relationship though. It's great having somebody around who can point out the problems with my theories. Okay, she's a wet blanket about things that might go against established rules but she relents once she understands why a particular rule isn't logical. Then she often becomes a champion for changing that rule. You'll note she doesn't ever actually break the rule but she does work hard to point out to everybody why it's a stupid rule and she's a powerhouse when it comes to arguing for her own way.

Also, if you can get past the bluntness and cop-like attitude I think you'll find that ISTJs have a quirky often very dark sense of humor that makes them hilarious. As much as you hate having your behavior policed you have to understand that they don't like doing it either. Although, I think some ISTJs get a little bitter after watching others benefit from breaking rules. This is something they probably hate more than anything else in the world.

Please understand that this is a gross generalization on my part and that people are first and foremost individuals regardless of type.

 

[Chewy]

Always the SJ hate. My closest friend for the last 7 years is an ISTJ. She needs security and she definitely likes to find and point out innacuracies in other people's logic. That last bit has been a boon to our relationship though. It's great having somebody around who can point out the problems with my theories. Okay, she's a wet blanket about things that might go against established rules but she relents once she understands why a particular rule isn't logical. Then she often becomes a champion for changing that rule. You'll note she doesn't ever actually break the rule but she does work hard to point out to everybody why it's a stupid rule and she's a powerhouse when it comes to arguing for her own way.

Also, if you can get past the bluntness and cop-like attitude I think you'll find that ISTJs have a quirky often very dark sense of humor that makes them hilarious. As much as you hate having your behavior policed you have to understand that they don't like doing it either. Although, I think some ISTJs get a little bitter after watching others benefit from breaking rules. This is something they probably hate more than anything else in the world.

Please understand that this is a gross generalization on my part and that people are first and foremost individuals regardless of type.

That's cool that you've found a way (or ways) to interact with your friend. Respect!

My ISTJ cousin is about 10 years older than me. Growing up, she was always correcting me, and others around her. Other immediate and extended family members would regularly give in and accept defeat, in part because they knew that she was quite smart, but also because she was such a bore.

Unlike many of the others, I don't let her walk all over me in a conversation (which usually turns into an argument or debate with her), and that annoys the hell out of her. It might sound like I being harsh; I'm not. She's incredibly industrious, organised, responsible, realistic, and always punctual and honest. She's smarter than me in a practical way, but I'm smarter than her in a logical sense. That's not to say she isn't logical; she just isn't as comfortable with logic as I am, as rationals are, and I think that that's something that she struggles to come to terms with. If she's lost a debate (which, 95% of the time, she's responsible for initiating in the first place), she'll get angry, and either continue arguing until she's blue in the face, or she'll drop it and re-open the debate several weeks or months later after she's read something out of a book to use in order to support whatever it was she was arguing about. I'm convinced that she's quite insecure.

 

[Cavallier]

Ew. Yeah, an insecure ISTJ (well, really anybody whose insecure) can be very prickly to deal with.