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languages and MBTI

WALKYRIA

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hello people, there is something odd about my MBTI....


See, like you know I speak/ have learned 5-8 languages, and the crazy thing I just realised and would like to share to you is that when I speak one or another language my personnality type changes; and actually my thinking flow gets modified.
For example, cuando hablo espanol ou français ou portuguese.... I would type myself more introverted, and almost feeler.(NF)
And when I speak American... I feel way on my ease and gets suddenly Extroverted.
There is another language I speak, that I don't want to mention for privacy purposes but when I do speak it.... wel I get ISFP. I know there is something highly cultural with MBTI, but don't know..


So what do you feel about this? Does your personnality/cognitive process/ MBTI changes when speaking another language? Is that even possible?

Also, why is it that INTP seems to be like great actors? morphing into a cultural stereotype or another when necesarry ? I just think it's great...

I know that for example, when I do speak american english...I get more playfull, bit of arrogant and confident, cocky and a bit dumber than average I tend to get E*TJ/P.... more of a bad boy. Mainly because I associate american english with a certain behaviour, certain caracteristics..
 

own8ge

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I think that you are falsely objectifying specific subjective perceptive occurrences by generalizing a thesis without argumentation, which isn't necessarily bad. This can be classified as hunching logic; which requires objective positive feedback from the environment to support the claim. However your hunch might be true, it is out of reach. We can't grant you that positive objective feedback.

I could persist your perspective to be true and argument this with objective logic. However! The conclusions we will make always be out of reach. Objective judgment does not equal objective perceptive logic.

So I'm sorry to say the following which may be rather confrontational, but thy shall not share such without supporting it with actual factual data. Besides, because the above completely applies to the INFJ; I conclude your type to be INFJ.
 

Cherry Cola

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Sounds more like your Fe/Ni combo taking culture into account and not just the technicalities of language.

Do you use specific languages in specific settings with specific people or do you just switch back and forth all the time? If not people and setting influence the way you feel about yourself, language could just be a part of it, a signifier so to speak. If you, say... use a certain language around relatives and then another at work, another with certain friends etc then it wouldnt be a strange phenomena for a socially flexible type like the INFJ to morph their persona accordingly.
 

Beholder

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Makes sense.
I speak two languages, so I can relate to that. I think it probably is more of a Fe thing, adapting to the different cultures.
But it's also the context each language has to you. For example, English is my first language, that I use with my family and used with almost all my friends growing up (until age ~18), so in English I feel much more comfortable being open and expressive. Hebrew is the language that when I was growing up was used for talking to anyone besides my close friends and family, but since I was 18 (I'm nearly 23 now) I spoke with all my friends in Hebrew, so in Hebrew I'm more serious and J-like (both due to the context it was used in growing up, and the J-ish culture of Israel), but also more socially adept (cool, I guess).

It also comes down to differences in the languages themselves; English has a very rich vocabulary, each word having a very specific and exact meaning, so it's easier to express complex ideas with. Hebrew has much fewer words, but the way you use them gives them their meaning, so emotional expression is an almost inseparable part of the language, resulting in communication almost always having more of a social component.

Wow, you really gave me a lot to think about...
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
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hello people, there is something odd about my MBTI....


See, like you know I speak/ have learned 5-8 languages, and the crazy thing I just realised and would like to share to you is that when I speak one or another language my personnality type changes; and actually my thinking flow gets modified.
For example, cuando hablo espanol ou français ou portuguese.... I would type myself more introverted, and almost feeler.(NF)
And when I speak American... I feel way on my ease and gets suddenly Extroverted.
There is another language I speak, that I don't want to mention for privacy purposes but when I do speak it.... wel I get ISFP. I know there is something highly cultural with MBTI, but don't know..


So what do you feel about this? Does your personnality/cognitive process/ MBTI changes when speaking another language? Is that even possible?
Yes, and yes.

Language evolves from the people who speak it. British English reflects the cultural values of British people. American English reflects the cultural values of American people.

I've spoken to multiple-language speakers, who commented that there is a huge difference between people speaking a second language, and a native language speaker. I've also observed it myself. The cultural values show up here very strongly.

However, those who speak a second language, and learn to THINK in it, manage to communicate like native speakers. But then you start to take on the cultural values, at least, while you speak it. This too can be observed in those who develop the fluidity of thinking in the language.

Also, why is it that INTP seems to be like great actors? morphing into a cultural stereotype or another when necesarry ? I just think it's great...
From An INTP Profile:
INTPs tend to be rather mistrusting of people and are rather sceptical. However, a lot of their trust is based on what the Ne function tells them about somebody. This can lead to a naivity and sometimes to prejudices based on intuitive perceptions of appearence and style. People can be a problem for INTPs: on the one hand they are fascinated by some types of people, especially more extraverted individuals, but a fear of irrational behaviour in others usually leads to caution. Friendship with INTPs develops at a pace which depends considerably on the temperament of the other person. INTPs dislike making the first move and tend to mirror the emotional content of the other person. A jolly person will quickly bring the INTP out of his shell, as much as that is possible, while a serious person will find a serious INTP looking back at him. In this sense, INTPs preference for intuitive perception (rather than action) with respect to people results in them resembling a chameleon. The INTP can fit into many different modes of behaviour, even contradictory ones, in order to get into the mindset of the other person. The goal is to gain enough intuitive data to analyse and assess the person. In doing this, the INTP remains somewhat reserved, never wholly identifying himself with his surroundings. As chameleons, INTPs are therefore approachable and open, unless the Ne tells the INTP that the other person is a type he doesn't like, in which case the reserved attitude may become too obvious. The chameleon behaviour can be particularly strong when discussing something. The INTP may even argue something that he doesn't really believe himself. Sometimes it is for the intellectual stimulation that comes with the challenge of arguing from a variety of standpoints. Otherwise, it may be to avoid early conflict before the situation has been fully assessed. Chameleons hide their true selves. INTPs do not do this cynically, or indeed all the time, but it is a result of the strong desire to remain detached and observe.

I believe that the reason for this, is as follows:

Ti likes to figure things out to their ultimate end. However, the ultimate end of all logic, is the Münchhausen trilemma. Ultimately, as Satre pointed out, "all knowledge is belief", i.e. that all reasoning, boils down to axioms, arbitrary axioms, from which, yield conclusions. So one can boil almost any personality down to a set of arbitrary axioms. As such, Ti can lead Ti-doms to become epistemological nihilists, and to even see their personalities as arbitrary accidents of birth. So a Ti-dom can believe that one could have any number of personalities, so long as one's early personal experiences happened to be different.

Ne allows one to shift perspectives, seeing how things might look from another person's perspective. Accordingly, an Ne-user can easily imagine what it might be like to be raised differently, should they choose to do so, and how they might speak.

Si records how people generally speak in any language, and their accompanying body language gestures, tones of voice, etc.

Inferior Fe is the strongest function of one's subconscious. So unconsciously, there is a huge desire to make others comfortable. So the subconscious can temporarily use Si, Ne & Ti, to build up a mental framework of how to speak to natives of a different language, in such a way that the others will feel most comfortable, i.e. with their body language, tones of voice, facial expressions, etc.

The same can easily happen when playing a role, so long as there is a reasonable basis for suggesting that doing so would make others feel more comfortable.

However, because Fe is very subconscious, it is most likely to happen naturally without trying, as then the subconscious would be doing the work. Trying to consciously make the effort, would probably mean that the typical INTP mindset would take over, and make it into a theoretical analysis that would screw up the practicalities. So I would expect that it happens easily, when one isn't trying to act or speak a different language, and simply when one is just getting on with things, and one has a strong belief that acting the part in character, or speaking the language like a native, would make one's audience more comfortable, but not acting on it consciously, so that the subconscious takes over.
 

John_Mann

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I never noticed if my type changes while I'm speaking another language. Learn languages it's a intuition related thing, so I don't think some change it's needed. But I always need some 15 minutes to warm up my brain into a different language. I consider live translation the hardest thing to do, I respect a lot those people who can achieve such skill.

@WALKYRIA: Onde e por que você aprendeu a falar português? Você fala o português de Portugal ou o do Brasil? Qual é a sua língua nativa?
 

BloodCountess88

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MMMhmmm I'm a polyglot certified as a translator in many languages.

I grew up all over Europe so it was learn the language or starve. :phear:
 

pjoa09

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I lost my morphing ability. I am just purely awkward nowadays.
 

walfin

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I feel a lot more expressive when I use Esperanto; it is the language of fun, of poetry and song and travel. Perhaps I feel more __FP when I use it.

English is the language of work and makes me feel decidedly SJ-like at times.

Cantonese is the language of family which makes me feel comfortable, but somewhat stifled. Makes me more _F_J-type than usual I guess.

Mandarin also makes me feel SJ-like because of how strict the Chinese teachers were in school.
 

Paladin-X

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I am an ISTP and speak English and French. I am an asshole either way. :P
 

WALKYRIA

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@WALKYRIA: Onde e por que você aprendeu a falar português? Você fala o português de Portugal ou o do Brasil? Qual é a sua língua nativa?

Hum, sorry.... I don't speak as well as I used to do. But I still understand it. When I was younger(teens), I went often in Portugal. And I learned portugues few years ago in a specialized school after. Same for spanish. Now I sometimes mix spanish with portugues.:confused:
 

DIALECTIC

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I speak French (my mother tongue) and English.
French is clearly a left brain analytic / rational language (very abrupt and straight to the point), English a right brain synthetic / emotional / intuitive language...

English is about openess, indetermination and RELATIVE diversity, English grammar is very easy to learn...
French is about focus, determination, formalism and ABSOLUTE conformity, French grammar is terribly hard because so many rules...

Depending what mood / frame of mind i am in i'd ather read in French or in English... English doesn't require as much focus as French in order to understand sentences etc.
I usually switch to French whenever i am looking for more accuracy because French vocabulary is small compared to English: French is very selective / conservative in the way it selects new words to officially enter vocabulary, English absorbs other languages and recycle foreign words without too much thinking that's why English vocabulary is so large, also old English words are never phased / thrown out !
 

Trebuchet

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To my sorrow, I am monolingual, but I was fascinated by a psychology study that found differences in risk assessment when the test was conducted in someone's primary vs. secondary language. Apparently, people are naturally risk averse, but less so in a secondary language.

It seems that behavior can change when using a second language. Is this a change in personality type?
 

walfin

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I speak French (my mother tongue) and English.
French is clearly a left brain analytic / rational language (very abrupt and straight to the point), English a right brain synthetic / emotional / intuitive language...

English is about openess, indetermination and RELATIVE diversity, English grammar is very easy to learn...
French is about focus, determination, formalism and ABSOLUTE conformity, French grammar is terribly hard because so many rules...

Depending what mood / frame of mind i am in i'd ather read in French or in English... English doesn't require as much focus as French in order to understand sentences etc.
I usually switch to French whenever i am looking for more accuracy because French vocabulary is small compared to English: French is very selective / conservative in the way it selects new words to officially enter vocabulary, English absorbs other languages and recycle foreign words without too much thinking that's why English vocabulary is so large, also old English words are never phased / thrown out !
This is pretty surprising really, I don't speak French but it's always portrayed as a romantic and emotional language.
 

DIALECTIC

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This is pretty surprising really, I don't speak French but it's always portrayed as a romantic and emotional language.
An urban legend... France is, sadly, clearly I/E-STJ, hence the extreme bureaucracy, the intolerance, the racism, the absolutism, the lack of big ideas...
As for emotions, you won't find much in France besides of the repressed type which wreck havoc.
 

DIALECTIC

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To my sorrow, I am monolingual, but I was fascinated by a psychology study that found differences in risk assessment when the test was conducted in someone's primary vs. secondary language. Apparently, people are naturally risk averse, but less so in a secondary language.

It seems that behavior can change when using a second language. Is this a change in personality type?
I concur !
 

Pyropyro

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So what do you feel about this? Does your personnality/cognitive process/ MBTI changes when speaking another language? Is that even possible?

I think my personality doesn't change when I switch languages but the functions may be suppressed or loosened up depending on the language used.

For example, I usually speak in English for formal communications so Ti more dominant while I'm using it. Ne may be activated but it's still hampered by the rigid Ti.

If I'm using Filipino, my native language, then Ne and Fe has more free reign to express themselves. You can mix English terms in while speaking in Filipino but not the other way around.

Oddly it's the opposite when I'm writing. I tend to be more expressive in written English. Writing in Filipino feels like I'm speaking like Shakespeare.
 
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