I've decided to just keep my mouth shut..

[Bartholomew]

I'm a 23 year old grad student who gets maybe a month off out of the year. My spring break was probably more stressful than school after a week with my girlfriend(ENFP) and her family. Essentially, I was surrounded by non-stop drama and Type A personalities who expressed every thought that came to their head, were bossy, and overly sensitive. I pretty much went along with what the leaders had decided we should do. After three days of shopping and following the tyrants at an amusement park, I decided to skip swimming at the hotel and watch the second half of the Lakers game. This was apparently an appalling act on my part. I calmly explained how I had went along with what everyone else wanted to do and just wanted to take an hour to recharge my batteries and do something I wanted to do. She did not even come close to understanding my reasoning and of course, took it personal. Somehow, she had come to the conclusion that she had been all about me the whole trip. This discussion repeated itself when I made plans to hang out with my friends the evening we got back from our trip.

I have decided that the world is driven(at least my world) by people who are unable to take a step back and look at things objectively. Emotion rules everything and they are unable to be rational. I have decided that it may be best to just keep my mouth shut because all logic seems to do is offend everyone. If I don't like the situation I'm in, I'm just going to have to swallow my pride and detach myself as much as possible without appearing aloof. If anybody can offer a better way, PLEASE indulge me. I'm to the point where I feel everything I do or say will be misconstrued for the worse.

 

[ashitaria]

I faced a similar situation, except that my parents were the authority..."shudder"

By now you should know (btw, 22 years) that although you would like everything to be logical, not much in the world is logical. If religious people could be reasoned with, there would be no religion. If emotional, sensitive and bossy cry-babies could be reasoned with, then there would be no emotional, sensitive or bossy cry-babies.

And the problem with these cry-babies is that they see the MBTI as a tool to change people (I hate my parents).

Anyway, good luck. I recommend you get a new girl-friend.

 

[Bartholomew]

My girlfriend is the one member of the family that is not Type A. She is ridiculously accommodating of those around her, and often that comes at my expense. Luckily, I'm not the needy or jealous type, but I would like this fact to be acknowledged ever so often. I think below sums her up pretty well. It's a personalities under stress blurb:

ENFPs have a tendency to overextend themselves in both their physical and emotional commitments. Their proclivity to procrastinate and to overlook details complicates their circumstances. ENFPs often move on to new ventures without completing those they have already started. Their charming personalities can show signs of irritability and over-sensitivity when their desires to please different people come into conflict. During times of stress, ENFPs feel alienated. They then engage in deceptions that serve to obscure what is occurring within themselves.
The ENFP finds symbolic meanings behind the immediate circumstances. These meanings are construed as foreboding problems when ENFPs are under stress. Having a pervasive feeling of losing control over their own independent identities, ENFPs will feel virtually split apart by intruding circumstances. They will be "besides themselves" and "just not all there" — as if something, or someone, has taken away the essence of who they are. Not feeling like themselves, the ENFP will become subject to their own feelings of shame for being a phony, a fake or an impostor. If stress continues to grow, they may attribute malevolent schemes to others in order to explain away their fears.

And yes, I am well aware that the world does not function logically. My mother was and is an ESFJ. *shudder*

 

[ashitaria]

My mother is an ISFJ, my dad is a ESTJ, and so is my sister. *shudder*

What's worse, I'm still under their authority. *shudder*

 

[ckm]

Unfortunately this seems to be an appropriate approach here (by the way, this seems the be an...archetypal INTP situation). Ultimately it would be nice for both parties (you and them) to develop more feeling and rational approaches, respectively. But that's a very tall order. I talk from experience.

My mother is an ISFJ, my dad is a ESTJ, and so is my sister. *shudder*

What's worse, I'm still under their authority. *shudder*

I'm blessed in that there's only one SJ in my immediate family (my father, my mother and sister are SPs, I think).

Pretty much every time I come into contact with an ESTJ, I think "I couldn't even begin to imagine living with you".

You have my sympathies.

 

[ashitaria]

And you don't know the least of it. They are sending me to the army when I turn 18! I hope I'll be able to apply for U.S citizenship before then.

 

[shadowdrums4]

I've been lucky enough to get an INFJ mother who has been very understanding, now my ESFJ father on the other hand constantly puts me down for how I am. *shudders* I was lucky enough that my ENFP bf had grown up around me and understood when I needed my alone time and didn't have much of a family to get on to me about it. I have however decided to keep quiet around some of my friends because I'm starting to realize they just don't care about some of the theories I bring out. Not a pleasant situation. I feel for you Bart. Ash, I don't know how you do it. I can barely put up with one SJ

 

[ckm]

And you don't know the least of it. They are sending me to the army when I turn 18! I hope I'll be able to apply for U.S citizenship before then.

Hold on. When you wrote this

By now you should know (btw, 22 years) that although you would like everything to be logical, not much in the world is logical.

didn't you mean that you're 22?

Either way, that's completely unacceptable. I'm not going to be logical about this. It's not fair. If my parents tried to force me into something like that I think the world would implode.

Thank you for reminding me of how lucky I am...

 

[ashitaria]

didn't you mean that you're 22?

No, I meant that he is 22. I'm 14.

And if anyone wants to know how bad having SJ parents is:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6523

 

[Trebuchet]

If I don't like the situation I'm in, I'm just going to have to swallow my pride and detach myself as much as possible without appearing aloof. If anybody can offer a better way, PLEASE indulge me. I'm to the point where I feel everything I do or say will be misconstrued for the worse.

You make the assumption that it is up to you to avoid offending anyone, but in truth you can't achieve that. You shouldn't be callous, of course, but if someone decides to take offense because you were taking care of your own needs, or being yourself, or being different from them, they are in the wrong. You don't have to be someone else to please people. Meeting them half-way was a perfectly nice way to behave. It sounds like you were not unfriendly, judgmental, or sarcastic, but simply honest. You did fine. It would make sense if you were annoyed at them.

I recommend, as a better way, that you continue to be your own, pleasant, INTP self, recharge your batteries when needed, and stay polite but firm. Don't take it personally that they don't understand you. You are fine the way you are, and eventually others adapt. Just say, "I need some down-time - see you in a while" and take what you need.

I spent my life trying to be someone I am not in order to please others, so I have been there. It did not really please others, and it certainly didn't please me.

 

[Bartholomew]

You make the assumption that it is up to you to avoid offending anyone, but in truth you can't achieve that. You shouldn't be callous, of course, but if someone decides to take offense because you were taking care of your own needs, or being yourself, or being different from them, they are in the wrong. You don't have to be someone else to please people. Meeting them half-way was a perfectly nice way to behave. It sounds like you were not unfriendly, judgmental, or sarcastic, but simply honest. You did fine. It would make sense if you were annoyed at them.

I recommend, as a better way, that you continue to be your own, pleasant, INTP self, recharge your batteries when needed, and stay polite but firm. Don't take it personally that they don't understand you. You are fine the way you are, and eventually others adapt. Just say, "I need some down-time - see you in a while" and take what you need.

I spent my life trying to be someone I am not in order to please others, so I have been there. It did not really please others, and it certainly didn't please me.

Thank you for this.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Give up. You have no chance fighting against a tidal wave.



Dave

 

[RedLoki]

I have decided that the world is driven(at least my world) by people who are unable to take a step back and look at things objectively. Emotion rules everything and they are unable to be rational. I have decided that it may be best to just keep my mouth shut because all logic seems to do is offend everyone. If I don't like the situation I'm in, I'm just going to have to swallow my pride and detach myself as much as possible without appearing aloof. If anybody can offer a better way, PLEASE indulge me. I'm to the point where I feel everything I do or say will be misconstrued for the worse.

Let logic combined with observation govern your emotions, almost like a mask over natural INTP tendencies to not say or do much with other people. It's what I've been learning to do and I've become somewhat of a leader in my social groups. It's difficult to do if you don't have a basis on how to approach it. I could elaborate more if you'd like to hear me out.

 

[Melllvar]

And you don't know the least of it. They are sending me to the army when I turn 18! I hope I'll be able to apply for U.S citizenship before then.

Um, forgive my confusion, but how will they force you into this when you're 18? Can't you just... not join, being your own legal entity at that point?

I've been a slave to my parents most of my life. I thought it would end when I turned 18, but HA, I sure didn't plan that one out very well. For irrationals they sure can be clever about finding ways to keep you under their thumb. Anyway, the solution I recommend is that with financial independence comes true freedom from parental tyranny... start saving now, and learn to live well below your means, then when you turn 18 you can GTFO ASAP. Just set aside a percentage of every dollar you make and save it, no exceptions. Aim to have enough saved up that you can sustain yourself long term and won't have to depend on them at all, which can be difficult, particularly if you're aiming for college and such. But its the only way anyone ever truly gets free from their parents. If you're depending on them to loan money, give you a place to live, pay tuition, working for them, etc., they'll always have power over you.

Related to that and the actual thread topic, bad relationships (not necessarily meaning romantic ones) can really poison you if you suppress it long term. Maybe its not that bad if its only around her family, but my advice to anyone dealing with a situation like that, be it parents, friends, significant others, etc. is to drop it and leave. May seem heartless and cruel now, but you'll save yourself from festering psychological issues years down the road. Hopefully once the whoever-it-is sees that you won't put up with that kind of treatment anymore they will learn to be more understanding, but even if not, its better to be lonely than miserable.

 

[Dogod]

Only around one in ten people are NTs - I'm lucky enough to have NT parents - at least I think they are. My sister is E something J (I'm not good at typing other people, obviously). I actually have a lot of NTs in my life - something that I consider lucky.
I'm fairly certain my chemistry teacher is INTP - he is definitely introverted intuitive and thoughtful. My friend is ENTJ - he took an MBTI.
ESFJ parents would suck. That's very bad luck.

 

[ashitaria]

Um, forgive my confusion, but how will they force you into this when you're 18? Can't you just... not join, being your own legal entity at that point?

I've been a slave to my parents most of my life. I thought it would end when I turned 18, but HA, I sure didn't plan that one out very well. For irrationals they sure can be clever about finding ways to keep you under their thumb. Anyway, the solution I recommend is that with financial independence comes true freedom from parental tyranny... start saving now, and learn to live well below your means, then when you turn 18 you can GTFO ASAP. Just set aside a percentage of every dollar you make and save it, no exceptions. Aim to have enough saved up that you can sustain yourself long term and won't have to depend on them at all, which can be difficult, particularly if you're aiming for college and such. But its the only way anyone ever truly gets free from their parents. If you're depending on them to loan money, give you a place to live, pay tuition, working for them, etc., they'll always have power over you.

Related to that and the actual thread topic, bad relationships (not necessarily meaning romantic ones) can really poison you if you suppress it long term. Maybe its not that bad if its only around her family, but my advice to anyone dealing with a situation like that, be it parents, friends, significant others, etc. is to drop it and leave. May seem heartless and cruel now, but you'll save yourself from festering psychological issues years down the road. Hopefully once the whoever-it-is sees that you won't put up with that kind of treatment anymore they will learn to be more understanding, but even if not, its better to be lonely than miserable.

How do you earn money before eighteen then? Is there any legal jobs for anyone under eighteen? Also, I have to go to army because doing so will cause me to use my Singaporean citizenship, thus I'm hoping to apply for U.S citizenship. If anyone can help me, please do.

 

[Bartholomew]

Let logic combined with observation govern your emotions, almost like a mask over natural INTP tendencies to not say or do much with other people. It's what I've been learning to do and I've become somewhat of a leader in my social groups. It's difficult to do if you don't have a basis on how to approach it. I could elaborate more if you'd like to hear me out.

Please elaborate. I'm not really following you here.

 

[Fukyo]

And if anyone wants to know how bad having SJ parents is:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6523

SJ's not the devil. Hysterics and control freakery are not universal to them. Those cases are more pathological. They see the world differently than an INTP and it's normal a conflict of thought and views will arise, thought it need not reach the extremes like in thread above. ;p

 

[Melllvar]

How do you earn money before eighteen then? Is there any legal jobs for anyone under eighteen? Also, I have to go to army because doing so will cause me to use my Singaporean citizenship, thus I'm hoping to apply for U.S citizenship. If anyone can help me, please do.

I'm not sure if you live in the US or Singapore (sorry I'm still new here), and if Singapore I'm not sure how it works there, but in the US I'm pretty sure you can get jobs at 16 without needing parental permission. I did and pretty much everyone I knew did. You can get jobs at 14 but I believe you have to have some kind of special deal (parental permission, status as a low income family, I can't remember specifically, its been a while since I was under 18). They may have changed it in the past 10 years, like they upped the driver's license/learner permit ages (further denial of youth rights, but I digress).

It may be difficult or infeasible in your situation, which I don't know much about. Being under 18 and under your parents roof certainly gives them plenty of opportunities to destroy your chances for financial gain/employment. You probably know better than I do what kind of options you have, but my point with the financial independence stuff applies after 18 too. I'm not sure anymore why you're planning to join the army, since at first I thought your parents were pushing you into it, but now it seems you want it yourself to get US citizenship. But anyway, if you don't want to join the army and its mainly your parents, saving up money while living cheap for a few years just seems like another option, even if its not feasible right now for whatever reason. On the off chance you may have the kind of parents that try to make life seem hopeless unless you follow their predestined plan, there are always other options. Don't let them force you into any armies if its that you don't think you have any other options (particularly after 18). Working a lame job while living cheap and saving your money for a few years can get you to the same place, but free of your parents, where you don't need to depend on them for anything.

Anyway, I mainly posted the original comment because its sort of an epiphany I've had recently about my own parental relationships. You may already have thought of all this or maybe it doesn't apply to your situation for some reason. After reading the thread you linked to (just now) though, I've got to say you seem to have put up with some shit (understatement). I sincerely hope you can find a way to get away from all that abusive shit. Sorry I don't actually have a better suggestion.



Also, sorry for this tangential discussion in your thread Bartholomew, I tend to get side tracked easily.