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It's possible for an INFJ to be more skilled in Ti than an INTP

scenefinale

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Really, study up on the theory more. All the experts agree that type doesn't change. No response needed.

I've tried explaining it to him/her before, Architect. I'm pretty sure that k9b4 is just trolling at this point.


As for OP goes, you'd have to define "more skilled" pretty strictly. An INFJ with such "skilled Ti" would likely be an ISTP and not an INFJ.
 

ProxyAmenRa

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A INFJ I knew received a gpa of 7/7 for civil engineering. She was simply brilliant at studying.
 

thoughtfully

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I don't see why an INFJ can't be more skilled in Ti than an INTP. To make the comparison the grounds would have to be equal. What skill is being talked about? The INTP is broad with Ti while the INFJ is interested in their Ni. The INTP would have to Ti about the Ni which the INFJ doesn't show openly. This makes equal grounds difficult. If the INTP picks a Ti the INFJ doesn't relate to using Ne, the INFJ has only Fe and Se. That will be a difficult road cross. If the INFJ picks a Ni using Fe and Se the INTP has only Ne to work with unless he has very good Fe.
 

k9b4

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I've tried explaining it to him/her before, Architect. I'm pretty sure that k9b4 is just trolling at this point.
nope not trolling

i guess the only conclusion you can now form is that i am stupid as fuck right? xD xD xD
An INFJ with such "skilled Ti" would likely be an ISTP and not an INFJ.
likely yeah

did you miss the whole fkn point of the thread?
 

Brontosaurie

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likely yeah

did you miss the whole fkn point of the thread?

ahahahhahahaha so easy to pwn they are, with such a dumb opinion :D

i think architect, redbaron and scenefinale should have proved non-Ti by now, according to their own standards. lolololol
 

RandomGeneratedName

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Wanna say yes, but, if INFJ emotions are involved and colouring thoughts, vs INTP just walked out of a walk in freezer, then no.

I had very high T at the beginning of our relationship, she had high F. Both grown towards weakness, and yes she can think better than me now when i'm having a bad day, but I can also tell her she just acted bitchy/hurtful/inconsiderate whatever and she didn't notice/unaware.
 

hepiaaro

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I think its possible. I am an INFP that uses Ti a lot, yet Ti isn't even in my function stack. I use Ti about as much as Ne.
 

MellifluousSky

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To make an analogy, I could compare a Ti-dominant user in this debate to a chess grandmaster. Most prodigies start the game at 3-5 years of age. A Ti-dominant user would have being using Ti even earlier than this and be more hard-wired as a result. Long story short? A prodigy playing someone who has just learned (or only dabbled) the game at 20 years old would be no contest at all. The novice would stumble with the simplistic task of what squares the different pieces could move to, while the GM would have an encyclopedic knowledge of opening, middlegame and endgame positions...entire games...typical strategic and tactical devices. In a word, completely fluent, with very little conscious effort, especially against a novice player. 1 minute versus 1 hour and the grandmaster would win every game! At Magnus Carlsen's level (elo 2882), he might be able to do it with just thirty seconds, with a one second increment to account for the time it takes to press the clock. Again, no contest...instant recognition on positional and tactical sequences...even against players who have been studying for 2 or 3 years.

A further point is that the novice would NEVER catch the grandmaster, simply because he does not have the sheer amount of deliberate practice that the GM has already amassed. The Ti dominant user would have this "deliberate practice" advantage and it would persist because the dominant function is always ON. The Ti-tertiary user will be far behind, even if it comes on-line earlier than normal in INFJ (typically near 30). The brain is a use it or (mostly) lose it type of apparatus. It specializes, and repetition is a key variable in what gets retained and hard-wired for use.
 

scorpiomover

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Yeah, you're right. Type is about the relative preferences of the functions. Preferences which are caused by skill. More skill = more preference.
There are thousands of skills. Only 8 functions.

In addition, Ni is usually described as a "strategic" skill, i.e. improvising and adapting one's techniques to best achive one's goals in the moment. Fe is usually described as a skill, as being good at manipulating the emotions of others.

Of all the people there are, the most skilled at getting what they want by being strategic, and who are extremely skilled at manipulating other's emotions to achieve their strategies, it's salespeople, because that's essentially what sales is all about, manipulating people emotionally to get them to follow a strategy that will result in them buying your company's products.

So if the functions are essentially "skills", then most salespeople are INFJs.
 

nanook

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what if you don't think of a function as a skill, but rather as a pleasure seeking principle.

according to jung, the introverted function finds itself confronted with an overwhelmingly animated world. the reason for this impression is that the world has been animated through a powerful subconscious extroverted principle, upon which i will shed some light in the next paragraph. the introverted reaction is to counteract the constant change and overwhelming richness through introverted abstraction, which grants an impression of steadiness and familiarity. you could say Ni want's to live within it's own dream and not hear about the winds of change out there and Ti want's to orient itself towards his understanding of guiding principles of reality and not bother to consider possibilities that are only fleeting, exceptions so to say.

the extroverted function finds itself confronted with a world that seems sorta empty or lifeless. the reason is that his unconscious is considering the world from an introverted point of view, emphasizing what aspects of it as relevant and familiar to the subject. the extroverted function desires to animate this empty world consciously by - carl jung uses a german word similar to empathy - by feeling for it, by being passionate about it, like you may add excitement to your favorite game, when you are keen on paying attention to every detail of it like it's all pure gold.

there is pleasure in stability but also pleasure in animation.
there is terror in boredom and terror in being overwhelmed.

if i get this right, introverts are consciously participating in the process of introversion while their extroverted apprehension of reality is presented to them as a given fact. and for extroverts the opposite is true.

so INFJ seek to stabilize their world through Ni and through Ti, and INTP seek to stabilize it through Ti and Si.

in a simple life most need for stabilisation and entertainment is already achieved through the dominant function. the auxiliary function is more challenged, when life becomes more complex and unpredictable, in adult years.


the question of the thread remains of course and i also believe that the Ti of the average INFJ can be compared to a 12 year old Ti of an INTP, but not in skill, more in presence and influence. you can observe that the average INFJ has highly anti intellectual attitudes, they despise intellectual abstractions and don't realize that their intuitions are also subjective abstractions from reality (they will mistake them as objective metaphysical truth). only bright INFJ grow beyond this stage and begin to appreciate the power of Ti abstractions and only after their twenties, well into their thirties. but here i examine how conscious the function is, not how much impact it has on the cognition of the person. the young INFJ loves to ask questions (why, how, seeking understanding) and entertain all sorts of conceptual answers, which is clearly a Ti driven behavior. and then he never holds on to any of those answers, they pass by, as if their general relevance beyond this one instance/situation/context is not realized. this displays the unconscious quality of Ti, Ti is not trying to build an army of useful concepts, it's like a child that plays with a toy soldier, then forgets about it again.


what remains unclear to me is in how far the i/e-version of the dominant function is working against the unconscious opposite version of the same function or that of another function. or is against the totality of the unconscious psyche.
 

Architect

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There are thousands of skills. Only 8 functions. ...
So if the functions are essentially "skills", then most salespeople are INFJs.

Perfectly said.

Functions ARE NOT skills people. They are somethings - probably motivations - that lead to skills.
 

DrSketchpad

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Also, I don't think I've responded to this yet, but I'm bored and possibly useful.

As people have said, you can excel in the activities and output of that function's "domain", however that doesn't determine how strong a function is.

To all who haven't, I very much recommend reading Jung's Psychological Types to at least get an idea of what the person who began all of this thought on the matter.

Jung said essentially (I'm not directly quoting so please correct me if i'm wrong) that a function is a habit that you pick up in development. If you show preference of a certain mode of operation in front of any others to deal with your inner problems, or that of the world, that's you're dominant. This doesn't necessarily mean that type is purely preference, Jung thought that everyone still had an inborn natural type and acting out of accordance with that would lead to neurosis. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can ONLY operate in line with you're set functions all of your life (at least that's what Jung thought) and trying to do otherwise, while a "slow and organic process" still happens. IIRC he even thought it possible have thinking, feeling, sensing and intuition in completely balance with each other (although I'm not sure if he thought this common at all, maybe it was just a hypothetical. I think that's what he said though).

I agree with Architect about functions being probably being motivations or something similar from an observatory standpoint that we refine overtime by use with the memories we gain from/with them.

Again, I could be completely be recalling this incorrectly, so please correct me if you can/should.
 
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