ISTP, working on Ne (wait, or maybe INTP?)

[Jesin]

After thinking it over and discussing it, I've concluded that I'm actually ISTP, which sort of explains a lot about the differences between me and a lot of the INTPs here. And while I do enjoy some of the strengths of Se in comparison to Ne, a lot of the weaknesses really bother me.

In working on some of those weaknesses, I think I've decided to develop my Ne.

For ISTPs, that isn't even supposed to be in the top four. It's below inferior.

But I want to try it anyway.

I wonder how this could turn out.

There is of course the possibility that after trying it for a while, I'll decide it's too hard, and just give up and try to accept that I'll never be good at Ne. But I hope not. I don't want to give up, I don't want to take the easy way out. I want to learn to use Ne effectively. I probably will get frustrated or feel like giving up a few times along the way, but when that happens I hope I can just take a break for a while and then get back to it.

That aside, though, I wonder how far I'll take this. Will I just stop at "ISTP who knows how to use Ne"? Is that even possible?

I read somewhere that, according to current ideas about the neurological interpretation of the MBTI, functions with the same purpose (judging vs perceiving) and orientation (introverted vs extraverted) are "opposites" in that they share a lot of the same space in the brain, so the preferred one takes a lot of the energy and processing power that would otherwise be used by the non-preferred one.

So, if I can get to "ISTP who knows how to use Ne", maybe I'd stop there, or maybe I might go from there to "INTP who knows how to use Se"? Or if not, maybe I'd go from "ISTP who has some idea what Ne is like" to "INTP who remembers what Se was like" instead. Or maybe I'll end up with something between Ne and Se, sort of like cryptonia's Ti and Fi.

I'm not sure. But I intend to give it a try.

 

[Latro]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

God dammit Jesin you're N. Give up.

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

God dammit Jesin you're N.

You still seem to think I haven't considered that possibility carefully enough. Trust me, I have, and I'm not, so you can stop saying that now.

 

[ckm]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I'm pretty sure that your type stays the way it is for your lifespan. Your challenge in life is to develop what doesn't come naturally to you. Ns are "out of body experience" people. As an S, it is your challenge to achieve this (ours, naturally, is to leave this world of possibilities and connect with our body).

Basically, it's completely possible for you to use Ne.

A (proposed) definition of Ne from greenlightwiki.com:

Extraverted Intuition (Ne) is the attitude that what is manifest (apparent, observable) is a reflection of a greater reality. The dinosaur bone hints at the dinosaur, the cloud hints at the coming thunderstorm, the thunderstorm is a reflection of the rotation of the Earth within its atmosphere. Whatever you find, there is something more to find: a broader context, a whole, which will change your understanding of the part.

It's kind of hard to help someone use Ne...kind of like teaching someone English after speaking the language for your whole life. You could try reading poetry. Dickinson is good. Abstract connections and stuff. Possible meanings. Metaphors.

 

[Ashenstar]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

*removed due to stupidity*

 

[Fukyo]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I'm curious.

On what basis did you conclude you use Se as a main perceiving function?

How and in which situations?
Can you provide some examples and more information?

Are you sure you didn't confuse it with Si?
It's not uncommon to be confused about type when 'inferior' functions start showing up.

I think it's possible that an INTP has a strongly developed Ti and a somewhat underdeveloped Ne, and Si could have more of an active role.

 

[fullerene]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

yeah.... I think I could see that. Tough-ish to tell though.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Haha, yeah, it's characteristic of INTPs to hem and haw over what type they are. An ISTP wouldn't be very interested in the MBTI, and he definitely wouldn't think about the Poss(Ne)ibilities so much!

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Why?

Why do you have to be an INTP?

I swear, ISTPs have got to be the biggest self-loathers out of all of the personality types. Almost every one that I have ever seen online either thinks they are an INTP who "takes in information through Se instead of Ne", or says something like "I'm an ISTP... But I have really developed my Intuition!" As if this is what they need to be redemed from their S-hood.

Look, in attempting to develope Ne, you are probably going to end up developing your Ni instead. This is incidental, but I think it would be a much more practical approach. First of all, I don't think you have any idea how you would even approach working on your Ne specifically; And I can't say it is impossible (I think it is highly improbable), but I can say that it is going to be way more difficult than developing Ni, which is just one step down from your Se anyway. In fact, if you can enjoy this forum, your Ni is probably pretty well developed as it is.

I should probably be glad for you, because not enough sensors see the value, or have an incentive to try and fully develope their personalities. But you will never truly develope yourself if you shun what you naturally are. You can reach over to your Ni and Fi sides but it must be through a Stimulated Ti-Se, only then will it work most effectively.

 

[Auburn]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I agree with Adymus. I also don't think it's any better or worse to be ISTP or INTP but I think everyone should feel comfortable in their type. However, we are naturally fascinated by that which we don't possess, which could easily lead many people to test as the type they want to be as opposed to what they truly are.

I wonder how many people are actually S who liked the way the N descriptions sounded to them. Being S types, their strength does not lie in the internal/theoretical world and thus it would be difficult for them to correct this misconception on their own. An N type would be able to distinguish s/he's not S eventually through introspection by using intuitive perception, but S types are at a disadvantage in this area and more prone to remaining mistyped than N types, i think.

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I'm pretty sure that your type stays the way it is for your lifespan.

This is true for most people, yes, but is it necessarily a rule? The obvious example of changing one's type would be as the result of a lobotomy, though I suppose that would be a degenerate case.

If you think about it, though, a lot of people change the way they think without physically poking around in their brains, for example through meditation and counseling. It doesn't always work, no, but sometimes it does. And what's so different about MBTI type that makes it exempt from this? It might be particularly difficult to change, yes, but not impossible.

I'm curious.

On what basis did you conclude you use Se as a main perceiving function?

How and in which situations?
Can you provide some examples and more information?

It's... hard to talk about this in terms of examples like that. I suppose part of it is how, when some people try to discuss theories and hypotheticals in depth with me, I tend to tie it back to reality/practicality too fast. Or something.

Are you sure you didn't confuse it with Si?
It's not uncommon to be confused about type when 'inferior' functions start showing up.

I think it's possible that an INTP has a strongly developed Ti and a somewhat underdeveloped Ne, and Si could have more of an active role.

Yes, I suppose that is very much a possibility. I had thought of the "underdeveloped Ne in comparison to Ti" part, but not the "Si taking more of an active role" part. I don't think it's Si, but I could very well be wrong about that.

Hmm, I don't know. I just don't really recall ever using anything that looked quite like Ne... I suppose my Ne could just be underdeveloped, though...

Haha, yeah, it's characteristic of INTPs to hem and haw over what type they are. An ISTP wouldn't be very interested in the MBTI, and he definitely wouldn't think about the Poss(Ne)ibilities so much!

I think the hemming and hawing is a product of Ti trying to get it right, though, and not so much anything to do with Ne.

And, hmm, maybe... But isn't Fury, for example, an ISTP, and isn't he interested in the MBTI?

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

@ RT - I think ISTPs share the INTPs obsessive impulse to pursue their interests at the expense of most everything else. I've known a few ISTPs in real life and they get just as "into" their interests as we do. I think it's very possible for an ISTP to have an interest for MBTI theory and therefore also obssess over their true type.

I agree with Adymus. I also don't think it's any better or worse to be ISTP or INTP but I think everyone should feel comfortable in their type. However, we are naturally fascinated by that which we don't possess, which could easily lead many people to test as the type they want to be as opposed to what they truly are.

I wonder how many people are actually S who liked the way the N descriptions sounded to them. Being S types, their strength does not lie in the internal/theoretical world and thus it would be difficult for them to correct this misconception on their own. A real N type would be able to distinguish he's not S eventually through introspection by using intuitive perception, but S types are at a disadvantage in this area and more prone to remaining mistyped, i think.

Plus, we are fascinated by that which we don't possess, which could easily lead us to believe that we do.

Precisely.

Don't be fooled by the S, ISTP are still Ti doms. That means like us, they will be most motivated by understanding complex systems.


This is why so many ISTPs read INTP descriptions and Identify with it, and they are techically not wrong for doing it. They still build theoretical models like we do, we just thrive on the cerebral world while they thrive on the physical world.

I agree with what you said about being fascinated with what we don't have; I think this is the same reason when INTPs take cognitive process tests a lot of the time they will come up Ti-Ne-Ni-Te or something similar. It's not that we have Ni and Te, but because we value it, and it is more like something we would like to think we have. Also it is because we identify with these functions more than we identify with our Si and Fe. Yes, they are appart of us, even more so than Ni and Te, but that is something we don't really like to acknowledge.

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Why do you have to be an INTP?

Because, if I'm ISTP, that means my major perceiving function doesn't care about the same things I care about. I'd like my personal preferences and my cognitive preferences to match, and I'm not going to do that by trying to change my personal preferences, thank you, because that would be a whole different class of betraying myself.

 

[Ashenstar]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Oh dear... I am developing a suspicion that I may be ISTP. I have been told by someone I basically trust that I'm INTP.. but... what if they are wrong? And I'm wrong and we are both just wrong wrong wrong.....

I read that "They are notorious for taking apart a device to see how it works before considering whether they can put it back together."

I have broken so many many things from doing this.

Wait.. no... let's be rational. Out of testing myself about 5 times ISTP never came up....
Even if I was ISTP it wouldn't be the end of the world.....

 

[Agent Intellect]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Everyone gets a mild case of ISTP once, but like chicken pox, it's good to get it out of the way early.

 

[Ashenstar]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Everyone gets a mild case of ISTP once, but like chicken pox, it's good to get it out of the way early.

It does seem to make me feel kind of "itchy" much like chicken pox as well.

Oh and I think a post by Perseus on personalitycafe may have just cleared it up.

An ISTP behaves like a Bear, overbearing, insensitive, and physically powerful, lives in the forest amongst the trees. An INTP behaves like an Eagle, aloof, misunderstood, sees the forest and does not get lost in the trees.

 

[Weliddryn]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

We've discussed this already, of course Jesin but you're more than worth a post, I think. ;p
You have always struck me as ISTP, though it seems obvious your intuition is highly developed- probably due to it being directed internally.
You strike me as ISTP because of your high demonstration of Ti, what with corrections, a need for precision. You problem solving skills are very much Ti and I observed this plenty in discussions regarding moding.
Se- This is more difficult to observe, for me I think. However, you can be very practical and focus much on what is necessary- this is not exactly Se but it seems very much not Ne. I wonder if, due to this forum and perhaps a natural disposition, your Ni surpassed your Se. I have a hunch that you use Se in my observations of you but seem incapable of articulating it, atm.
Ni- you understand complex problems and their implications very well, I think but you do not display it in the way someone with Ne>Ni would, it is kept internal and Ti takes the role in expressing it.
As for developing Ne, perhaps take note of certain things, be they objects, situations, etc and think about what they remind you of or how they can relate to other things. With time, perhaps it will become more natural and less develop on Ti reasoning.

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Oh dear... I am developing a suspicion that I may be ISTP. I have been told by someone I basically trust that I'm INTP.. but... what if they are wrong? And I'm wrong and we are both just wrong wrong wrong.....

I read that "They are notorious for taking apart a device to see how it works before considering whether they can put it back together."

I have broken so many many things from doing this.

Wait.. no... let's be rational. Out of testing myself about 5 times ISTP never came up....
Even if I was ISTP it wouldn't be the end of the world.....

You're such a hypochondriac!


Oh noes! I think I have the Se!!


PS: I take stuff apart all of the time just to see how it works. It's Ti that makes us do that, not Se.

 

[Ashenstar]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

You're such a hypochondriac!


Oh noes! I think I have the Se!!

Hahahahaha



I know I'm a hypochondriac.

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Because, if I'm ISTP, that means my major perceiving function doesn't care about the same things I care about. I'd like my personal preferences and my cognitive preferences to match, and I'm not going to do that by trying to change my personal preferences, thank you, because that would be a whole different class of betraying myself.

Wait... Answer this question for me, this is really important:

Are you stimulated by Se types of activities? Video games, sports, driving, dancing, snowboarding, etc, any kind of activity that requires being in the present and using your body and senses?

If the answer to this question is "no" Then I have another question:

Have you actually tried any of these or do you are a bit reclusive and don't really go out enough anyway?

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Some video games, yes, especially if they have plot. I've never really liked FPSes or anything like that, if that's what you meant. As for the rest of that... No, not really.

I mean, I had fun at the homecoming dance this year and last year, but I didn't really do much dancing. It was mostly just talking to and doing stuff with friends that was the fun part. The only dancing I really did was, when decent songs for the purpose (such as Sandstorm, for example) came on in the "rave-like" area that took up the back half of the auxiliary gym, several of my friends started flailing wildly and I joined in.

Sports? Feh. No, I've never liked sports at all, really. I'm glad I don't have to take PE anymore, it was one of my least favorite subjects.

Roller coasters can be fun, yes, but that gets old fast. I don't want fun, I want interesting.

EDIT: Remember, though, that I said ISTP, not ESTP.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

*coughintuitivecough*

edit// so what are your hobbies?

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Okay something is very wrong with this picture, you have no signs of using Se at all. I don't see how you can logically be a Ti-Se if you are not even using and enjoying the use of Se. You can't really be a personality type without being stimulated by your top two functions.

My other theory was that you could be a recluse, and have not yet discovered your Se side, and thus super developing Ti and Ni. But this does not seem to be the case, and even if it were the case, you would still be stimulated by Se more than Ni despite it being more developed.

I think you still have a bit of finding yourself to do before you declare yourself any type. For all you know, you might be neither INTP nor ISTP.

EDIT: Remember, though, that I said ISTP, not ESTP.

Irrelevant, Having Se as a higher function would still give you an affinity for it. For example my Dad is an ISTP. While he is really well developed and I can have philosophical and conceptual discussions discussions with him, he is still more stimulated by Se activities (Basketball, watching sports, fixing stuff) than I will ever be. Likewise I am still more stimulated by the Conceptual and abstract than he will ever be (which is why I am almost always the initiator of these conversations)

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

My other theory was that you could be a recluse, and have not yet discovered your Se side, and thus super developing Ti and Ni. But this does not seem to be the case, and even if it were the case, you would still be stimulated by Se more than Ni despite it being more developed.

Like I said, if I'm ISTP, then my major perceiving function doesn't care about the same things I do.

Also, remember, my Ti is still dominant. I could still use Se in interacting with other people, even if it doesn't determine my interests.

I think you still have a bit of finding yourself to do before you declare yourself any type. For all you know, you might be neither INTP nor ISTP.

No, I know I'm either INTP or ISTP, because those are the only types with dominant Ti, and I know I have that.

 

[Fukyo]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I suppose part of it is how, when some people try to discuss theories and hypotheticals in depth with me, I tend to tie it back to reality/practicality too fast. Or something.

It should be noted that Thinking functions are somewhat realistic by themselves.
(Te for example can be very pragmatic)

One of the main distinctions between ISTP and INTP is that the ISTP has no interest or patience for theory. It's simply not of use to them. An ISTP deals with what is readily observable in their environment via their senses.
Acting, doing things with a concrete outcome is usually of importance to an ISTP.

Ne is perceiving the potential in a given situation, a fluid process which considers all the variables and how things could develop; "juggling" several trains of thought which are all related in some way and seeing where they lead. (I might be describing Ti+Ne here, not entirely sure)

for Se, I like this proposed definition from Lenore Thompson's wiki:

(Se) is the attitude that whatever is manifest (apparent, observable) calls forth an obvious and natural response, that has nothing to do with the way you need to respond in any other moment. The meaning of everything is readily apparent--at the time that it appears. Whatever stands out and gets your attention here and now is precisely what needs your attention here and now. Your instincts at each moment will tell you what to do; there is no point in anticipating.

Si means being grounded in a factual reality, considering detailed facts,what has been proven to be correct and in it's more advanced form preserving "what's been proven to be correct" over a long period of time, unlike Se where sensory information is the main point of focus.

Which one would you say you use more?

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Like I said, if I'm ISTP, then my major perceiving function doesn't care about the same things I do.

Also, remember, my Ti is still dominant. I could still use Se in interacting with other people, even if it doesn't determine my interests.

No you use Fe when interacting with other people, you use Se to gather information. If you are an ISTP anyhow...

You are looking at it like your Ti and Se are isolated from each other, your top two functions are interconnected, you can't switch out one for another. This is why I say it would be highly improbable (if not I'm possible) for an ISTP to not like using Se, it's just a natural part of them like Ne is to me. An ISTP is not a Ti, they are a Ti-Se; It is the top two functions that define your type, not just the top.

So why do you think you are an ISTP anyway?

 

[Auburn]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Jesin is an interesting case..

I talk to Jesin often via irc, and I have never really seen him use Ne. However I can't really say I notice too much Se either, but I know all humans need a perceiving function too so he must have one there somewhere.

There are just a few signs that I pick up from him that may be indicative of Se but I really can't say for sure. For what it's worth, I notice:

• He very often links to external sources as references when discussing something, theoretical or otherwise. In other words he relies on more concrete information and articles to support his views rather than on his own theoretical self-constructed models and explanations for things.
• He really enjoys webcomics and is often wanting to share these with other members. =P
• He's well learned in web designing, computer languages, and a lot of tech-y stuff that deals with computers.

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

He very often links to external sources as references when discussing something, theoretical or otherwise. In other words he relies on more concrete information and articles to support his views rather than on his own theoretical self-constructed models and explanations for things.

Could you by any chance give me an example of this off hand, please?


Wait that doesn't make sense, there is no reason a Ti user should not be able to construct a logical models of some kind to explain things.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Obviously, we can't solve this controversy with theory.

I motion for a vivisection!

 

[Latro]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Referring to external sources isn't necessarily Se. You're supposed to do that in any real sort of discussion, whenever possible. This is why it's taught in school: this is just how sensible people argue about most topics.

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I wish I could see a Youtube video of him, spot typing is so much more effective for me than just conjecture typing based on how they act.

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

• He's well learned in web designing, computer languages, and a lot of tech-y stuff that deals with computers.

Oh, come on, how is that evidence of S?

I mean, sure, you've only heard me discussing the practical stuff, but you've only heard me talking about it with you and Fang, and neither of you have expressed any interest in computer science! You guys just wanted to know about what was necessary to build that site, not about algorithmic time and memory complexity and stuff like that.

Really, Auburn, I don't think you know enough computer science yourself to judge how S or N it is.

 

[Latro]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Oh, come on, how is that evidence of S?

I mean, sure, you've only heard me discussing the practical stuff, but that's because you've only heard me talking about it with you and Fang, and neither of you have expressed any interest in computer science!

I think Auburn was just listing observations about you, not those that favor S-ness.

 

[Auburn]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Could you by any chance give me an example of this off hand, please?

I don't know if I can give you an actual example, but I can explain more or less how it happens. Some will be talking about something relating to a science and bouncing ideas back and forth using Ne (I'm sure you know what I mean) and his way of adding to the discussion usually involves linking an outside source he's read before that relates to the current discussion. It's actually really useful because it gives the rest of us something solid to work on rather than just our own imaginations.

Wait that doesn't make sense, there is no reason a Ti user should not be able to construct a logical models of some kind to explain things.

Well yes, he does construct his own explanations to things, but, at least from what I have observed, he does so using more information than imagination.

But well, I guess that's not really such a strong argument considering information and imagination intermingle in both N and S types to some extent. =/

I think Auburn was just listing observations about you, not those that favor S-ness.

Yes ^^;
Like I said, I hesitate to say any of those listed observations are undoubtedly Se, but I just thought I'd share them for the sake of more input.

 

[Kuu]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Referring to external sources isn't necessarily Se. You're supposed to do that in any real sort of discussion, whenever possible. This is why it's taught in school: this is just how sensible people argue about most topics.

sensible being the thing in question


I'm finding it really hard to think of Ne stuff separately from Ti stuff.

For all that I've read here, etc, I don't see much evidence going for Se.

So I guess INTP with weak N / P. Maybe it is just Si being more used than Ne. Perhaps you have repressed your Ne because of your environment, or something.

Perhaps Auburn is wacko.

 

[Auburn]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Perhaps Auburn is wacko.

I wuv u too kuu sweetie!

Edit: Adymus, you're right. All those could be explained much better as being Si than Se. I digress..

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Auburn, the example you gave me, (ie: tying the discussion to known facts) I'm almost certain would be be Si, and definitely not Se.
This would be completely normal for an INTP.

Curious, Jesin, when everyone is doing their Ne thing, do you feel like you are bouncing with them on the inside, and just coming out with it?

I think it might be possible to not be as confident with your Ne, if you are really introverted, and only come out with Si facts because you know you can't can't go wrong with known facts.

Edit: This is actually what I used to do when I was younger, because my older ENTP brother would run Ne circles around me, so I started developing Si more because that I knew was something I could do better. Well I didn't "know" I could do it better, it was just my way of leveling the field.

 

[Fukyo]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

So I guess INTP with weak N / P. Maybe it is just Si being more used than Ne. Perhaps you have repressed your Ne because of your environment, or something.

INTP with strong Ti and Si and not very well developed Ne is my guess too.

All the information in this thread directs to Si from what I can tell and there don't seem to be any signs of Se.

Though it's also possible that his main perceiving function, whether it is Ne or Se isn't sufficiently developed yet, so it isn't apparent aside from from Ti, which seems be quite strong.

Perhaps the type can't be determined with certainty until this development occurs.

 

[Latro]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

How the hell does one function with a poorly developed perceiving function, though? You'd be making decisions on borderline nonexistent data, how does that work?

 

[Auburn]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

No wait..

But how could a tertiary function, which also happens to be introverted, be much more apparent than an Auxiliary function which happens to be extroverted? That doesn't make sense to me unless Jesin had some dramatic life circumstances that forced this to happen..

 

[Fukyo]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

@Latro: It is possible, especially considering age. People mostly rely on using their dominant and (to a lesser degree) auxiliary functions in early life/adolescence. It's not exactly making decisions on non-existent data, the function is there and it works, it's just subjugated to the dominant function and thus not easily separated from it. There could be other factors that influence function development as well.

 

[loveofreason]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

Jesin, you have always seemed so much more sensible than the rest of us lunatics here.

Given your age and intelligence it isn't surprising to find Se and Ne blurred.

 

[Kuu]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

I wuv u too kuu sweetie!

At last, our torrid secret love affair is finally, publicly accepted! How disgusting.

Also, your new avatar makes me want to corrupt you completely beyond redemption.

 

[Jesin]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

This is sorta weird... It's looking like the only functions I've noticed myself using are Ti, Fe, something that could be Si, and something that could be Ni. I mean, what? How does THAT work?

Unless of course that word-association thing counts as Ne. I mean, I do stuff similar to that all the time. It's sorta really basic, though...

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

No wait..

But how could a tertiary function, which also happens to be introverted, be much more apparent than an Auxiliary function which happens to be extroverted? That doesn't make sense to me unless Jesin had some dramatic life circumstances that forced this to happen..

This is why I proposed the possibility that he is in fact using it, but just not showing it for some reason or another. Or perhaps he is using it in a way that we are not seeing.

 

[Fukyo]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

No wait..

But how could a tertiary function, which also happens to be introverted, be much more apparent than an Auxiliary function which happens to be extroverted? That doesn't make sense to me unless Jesin had some dramatic life circumstances that forced this to happen..

(slightly off topic) According to MBTI that shouldn't happen as it contradicts the development model, but I've observed that interaction resembling a loop between the a dom Introverted Judging function and the 3rd, Introverted Perceiving function, where the Extroverted Perceiving gets cut off and the 3rd function becomes the main source of information. I've only seen it in INXPs so far, and still lack information to explain exactly what happens to the Extroverted Perceiving function.
In the INTP case, it might have something to do with Si being the "relief function".
I could talk about this more, but it's not exactly relevant to the situation so I'll stfu.

 

[Adymus]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

(slightly off topic) According to MBTI that shouldn't happen as it contradicts the development model, but I've observed that interaction resembling a loop between the a dom Introverted Judging function and the 3rd, Introverted Perceiving function, where the Extroverted Perceiving gets cut off and the 3rd function becomes the main source of information. I've only seen it in INXPs so far, and still lack information to explain exactly what happens to the Extroverted Perceiving function.
In the INTP case, it might have something to do with Si being the "relief function".
I could talk about this more, but it's not exactly relevant to the situation so I'll stfu.

No please continue, you know I love it when you talk dirty

It's not very often that Si becomes the "main", usually only if there is no Ne alternative. It's more like we model it with Ti and Ne, and then we check back with Si to make it works with our known facts and past experience.

The exchange that is happening with Jesin and the others sounds like he is playing the role of the Si-checker, which I don't think necessarily means he has not developed his Ne, just that he feels it is more necessary to Si check the brainstorming rather than add to it.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

The exchange that is happening with Jesin and the others sounds like he is playing the role of the Si-checker, which I don't think necessarily means he has not developed his Ne, just that he feels it is more necessary to Si check the brainstorming rather than add to it.

I would agree with this, as it's something I often do myself. My Ne can go pretty wild sometimes, but I often think that I have a very highly developed Si (my internal skeptic) that prevents me from endorsing every crazy idea and hair-brained scheme I come up with. Si sometimes seems like a nice 'fact checker' function, and it often seems like mine is more prevalent then with some people on this forum.

My brother is an ISTP (confirmed) and here are a few observations about him that may help in the search:

-He's a big time gamer. He likes some RPG's (final fantasy mainly) but is mostly into FPS.
-Has to be doing something, even if all that is is watching TV. There can't be any 'sit and think' time.
-More uninhibited then me. He sometimes seems like he doesn't have that voice telling him he shouldn't do/say something (ie cursing in front of grandparents)
-Seems more hedonistic then me. "Play time" is very important to him, generally in the form of video games.
-Despite being a P, he's a lot neater then I am (but tends to procrastinate the bigger things).
-He enjoys science, mainly physics/astronomy, but doesn't suffer any of the imaginative stuff. We both like the show The Universe but he can't stand the stuff talking about the possibilities of other life forms, or future space exploration etc where I enjoy that stuff. He'd rather stick to the brass tax astronomy.
-He has a very sarcastic, dark sense of humor (even compared to me). Schadenfreude comedy is his style.
-Much more mechanical then me. The stereotype of ISTP's liking to take things apart rings true with him (he's the person I go to anytime my computer fucks up).
-I've heard a few times before that punk rock is an ISTP thing; this is also true with him (although I don't know how much one can make judgments based on music preference).

 

[Latro]

Re: ISTP, working on Ne

The exchange that is happening with Jesin and the others sounds like he is playing the role of the Si-checker, which I don't think necessarily means he has not developed his Ne, just that he feels it is more necessary to Si check the brainstorming rather than add to it.

I like this. It fits the various data that I have from a lot of time on IRC with Jesin.

 

[Jesin]

I think it might be possible to not be as confident with your Ne, if you are really introverted, and only come out with Si facts because you know you can't can't go wrong with known facts.

Edit: This is actually what I used to do when I was younger, because my older ENTP brother would run Ne circles around me, so I started developing Si more because that I knew was something I could do better. Well I didn't "know" I could do it better, it was just my way of leveling the field.

It's not very often that Si becomes the "main", usually only if there is no Ne alternative. It's more like we model it with Ti and Ne, and then we check back with Si to make it works with our known facts and past experience.

The exchange that is happening with Jesin and the others sounds like he is playing the role of the Si-checker, which I don't think necessarily means he has not developed his Ne, just that he feels it is more necessary to Si check the brainstorming rather than add to it.

Yes, I think this is it. I think I've just been surrounded by people with better Ne than mine that I sort of lost confidence in my ability to contribute new ideas, and I became the Si fact-checker.

This explains everything perfectly, actually. And poof, identity crisis resolved. Thank you for that.