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Is trying drugs worth it

Inquisitor

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Lack of evidence means just the opposite? Ok spinach is bad for you. Also Ayurveda lol.

Although laboratory experiments suggest it is possible that some substances in Ayurveda might be developed into effective treatments, there is no evidence that any are effective as currently proffered.[117] Modern ayurvedic medicine is considered pseudoscientific.[118] Other researchers consider it a proto-science, an unscientific, or trans-science system instead.[119][120][121] Concerns were raised when 20% of Ayurvedic U.S. and Indian-manufactured patent medicines sold through the Internet were found to contain toxic levels of heavy metals such as lead, mercury, and arsenic.[125][126]

Research into ayurveda has been characterized as pseudoscience. Both the lack of scientific soundness in the theoretical foundations of ayurveda and the quality of research have been criticized


You had some strong points, so why do you now dilute your case with bullshit ? :S

People label as "bullshit" what they don't know or haven't taken the time to investigate. As a system of medicine, Ayurveda is in many ways superior to western bioscience. It's been practiced continuously in the Indian subcontinent for thousands of years. But I guess all those millions of patients and physicians were all grossly misguided and deluded right? And since they didn't have our western science, they couldn't have been anything other than misguided right?

Seriously though, you're suffering from chronocentrism. 20-30 generations of people going back thousands of years makes the probability that Ayurveda is "bullshit" nearly nonexistent. You're basically arguing that in every generation, people who passed down this knowledge to their descendants were all misguided and so were the descendants they passed it to and that this knowledge was completely inefficacious, ineffective, and/or dangerous. Yeah...I'm sure you're right. We are no smarter than they were. Ask yourself, what are the chances that you would apply a body of knowledge to your own life and then when it didn't work, spread it around to other people so that they in turn could also do the same as you and then have this process repeat itself 20-30 times over thousands of years....please. LOL. You don't know anything about it. Go educate yourself. I've been studying this stuff for years now. Besides typology, it's my only other serious intellectual hobby. I regularly consult with a trained Ayurvedic physician. The knowledge I've gained from this has increased my intelligence, made me healthier, happier...and basically what I know about health dwarfs most people's understanding of the topic, except for trained Ayurvedic vaidyas, including that of western MDs, of which I have two for parents. I consider it the great fortune of my existence that I had the opportunity to discover Ayurveda and apply it to my life. Typology helps with the psychological aspect, but Ayurveda helps with the body and the mind. Western medicine is light years behind it in many areas.

Graduates of Indian Ayurvedic medical colleges study for 5.5 years to get a Bachelor's in Ayurvedic Medicine & Surgery (BAMS) after which they study for another 2.5 year to get the MD (Ayu). Once they do, they are allowed to write prescriptions/give injections by the Indian government just like any other western-trained MD. While Ayurvedic "practitioners" in the west who go to school for 1 year or get "certificates" are certainly quacks, those who go to decent government Ayurvedic medical colleges in India for the full 8 years are certainly not. Western medicine knows nearly nothing about Ayurveda, and the two systems are not compatible.
 

Cherry Cola

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I dont actually know shit about Ayurveda, but the way you're arguing for it doesn't really make much sense so it is probably crap. I mean you diagnose me with chronocentrism based on nothing, hell ethnocentrism would've made more sense, and then you go on to babble a bunch about how Ayurvedic medicine has been practiced for ages and passed down through generations and how you have to study to practice it, none of which really says anything about its legitimacy.

Why don't you instead write about what exactly makes it great, and what exactly its arguments against cannabis are? That would be relevant in constrast to the contents of the post above which basically just says "this shit is dope man I know cause its like old and passed down through generations and also I know a great deal about it and health in general unlike you, and it has helped me a lot and its like a favorite interest of mine so I'm totally not biased about this at all, nevermind the fact that actual content is not present in my post is not at all a sign that I dont have access to such I just choose to omit it cause I dont give a fuck; you should totally believe in the legitimacy of this dubious form of medical practice which is widely regarded as pseudoscience because i say so"
 

Inquisitor

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I dont actually know shit about Ayurveda, but the way you're arguing for it doesn't really make much sense so it is probably crap. I mean you diagnose me with chronocentrism based on nothing, hell ethnocentrism would've made more sense, and then you go on to babble a bunch about how Ayurvedic medicine has been practiced for ages and passed down through generations and how you have to study to practice none of which really says anything about its legitimacy.

Why don't you instead write about what exactly makes it great, and what exactly its arguments against cannabis are? That would be relevant in constrast to the contents of the post above which basically just says "this shit is dope man I know cause its like old and passed down through generations and also I know a great deal about it and health in general unlike you, and it has helped me a lot and its like a favourite interest of mine so I'm biased about this at all, nevermind the fact that actual content is not present in my post is not at all a sign that I dont have access to such I just choose to omit it cause I dont give a fuck; you should totally believe in the legitimacy of this dubious form of medical practice which is widely regarded as pseudoscience because i say so"

I'm not going to explain it to you. If you're curious you can google it.
 

Brontosaurie

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This dude believes in god and fascism, and is a great skeptic toward human progress.
 

Cherry Cola

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I'm not going to explain it to you. If you're curious you can google it.

Well okay then, but did you know marijuana is also actually really great for you according too a bunch of dubious sources which I'm not going to talk about?
 

Russ

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I don't know the nature of your hallucinations but as far as weed goes my advice is this, if you havnt done it you arnt really missing out. It doesn't really do much of anything. I don't care what goofy studies come up with, its not addictive. I smoked for years and the just dropped it one day. I don't miss it. Alot. The part I point out is the colossal wast of money. I think where people run into probles is the self medicating mindset. "I need something si I can be ok." If the curiosity is really killing you just try it to get it out of the way.

that said. Other drugs can be pretty bad. I was hooked on painkillers for about a year and that is a very real thing. I strongly recommend people stay away from the really potent drugs. I only tried coke twice but the guys I did it with were pretty much consumed by the stuff.

If you want a funish and legal experience, go pick up a tin of chewing tobacco (Pouches), grab a bucket and take a dip.
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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If you want a funish and legal experience, go pick up a tin of chewing tobacco (Pouches), grab a bucket and take a dip.

Dear god, man. Your go-to for fun, legal highs is chewing tobacco?

Propylhexedrine is legal and fun. DXM is legal and (I've been told) fun. If you're looking for legal highs there are so many better options than chewing tobacco.
 

Russ

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I didn't like it at all but it was an unexpected result.
Where do you get dxm?
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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Where do you get dxm?

Any over-the-counter drug store. DXM is the chemical in cough syrup that people get fucked up on. Only, you don't want to take the cough syrup because it has other active ingredients that do some bad shit. You'll want to look for "cough suppressant" gel capsules and be sure to check the label so that dextromethorphan is the only active chemical in them. Also you're supposedly supposed to take a benadryl or two with all the DXM to help prevent "robo-itch."

Never done it, myself, but I've heard from others that it's very fun and very trippy.
 

Cherry Cola

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I don't know the nature of your hallucinations but as far as weed goes my advice is this, if you havnt done it you arnt really missing out. It doesn't really do much of anything. I don't care what goofy studies come up with, its not addictive. I smoked for years and the just dropped it one day. I don't miss it. Alot. The part I point out is the colossal wast of money. I think where people run into probles is the self medicating mindset. "I need something si I can be ok." If the curiosity is really killing you just try it to get it out of the way.

that said. Other drugs can be pretty bad. I was hooked on painkillers for about a year and that is a very real thing. I strongly recommend people stay away from the really potent drugs. I only tried coke twice but the guys I did it with were pretty much consumed by the stuff.

If you want a funish and legal experience, go pick up a tin of chewing tobacco (Pouches), grab a bucket and take a dip.

Why'd you smoke it for years if it didn't do much of anything? :S
 

redbaron

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Grey text on yellow background. Author of that was definitely on some dope shit.

Inquisitor said:
People label as "bullshit" what they don't know or haven't taken the time to investigate. As a system of medicine, Ayurveda is in many ways superior to western bioscience. It's been practiced continuously in the Indian subcontinent for thousands of years. But I guess all those millions of patients and physicians were all grossly misguided and deluded right? And since they didn't have our western science, they couldn't have been anything other than misguided right?

Considering that even in their most modern and up to date facilities, Indian medical practice is at best equally effective as most first-world countries I don't see how this is supposed to be meaningful to anyone.

Inquisitor said:
Western medicine knows nearly nothing about Ayurveda, and the two systems are not compatible.

Huge red flag to be honest. There's a variety of non-western medical practices that can be implemented in a cooperative manner with western medicine.

Also Ayurveda's not hugely different to Naturopathy, just aligned with three distinct axioms that are used for diagnosis/ongoing assessment.
 

Inquisitor

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I dont actually know shit about Ayurveda, but the way you're arguing for it doesn't really make much sense so it is probably crap.

So basically anything you don't understand is crap?

:applause:

LOL
 

Jennywocky

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Saturday:

Discussion veers into drugs momentarily and INTP kid out of the blue says, "Well, to be honest, I've gotten high a lot more than I've gotten drunk."

*pause* Me: "Really? please elaborate." lol. Not anything I'm surprised about, honestly.
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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Saturday:

Discussion veers into drugs momentarily and INTP kid out of the blue says, "Well, to be honest, I've gotten high a lot more than I've gotten drunk."

*pause* Me: "Really? please elaborate." lol. Not anything I'm surprised about, honestly.

Same here. It makes sense, really (imo, at least). The act of partaking in weed is, to my tastes, far less gross than partaking of alcohol. Being high is far more pleasurable than being drunk. And when being high wears off I just feel sleepy whereas when I'm done being drunk I feel gross and a little dehydrated and I can never get to sleep.

In fact the only reason I get drunk as often as I do (which is still fairly rare) is because people practically throw alcohol around here for free.

Edit: Also, so many of your posts are just a few details away from seriously making me think that you might be my mom, Jenny.
 

Jennywocky

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Same here. It makes sense, really (imo, at least). The act of partaking in weed is, to my tastes, far less gross than partaking of alcohol. Being high is far more pleasurable than being drunk. And when being high wears off I just feel sleepy whereas when I'm done being drunk I feel gross and a little dehydrated and I can never get to sleep.

That's very scary -- that's pretty much verbatim what he said. (He's 20 and hangs around in a college town.)

Edit: Also, so many of your posts are just a few details away from seriously making me think that you might be my mom, Jenny.

:phear: Uhhhh... no... of course not. That's not I. Me. Your mom. nope.

PS. You're grounded.
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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That's very scary -- that's pretty much verbatim what he said. (He's 20 and hangs around in a college town.)

But I'm 20 and I also live in a college town!

:phear: Uhhhh... no... of course not. That's not I. Me. Your mom. nope.

PS. You're grounded.

Joke's on you, mom! I'm a grown up and you can't tell me what to do anymore :p

No, but seriously, there are a few key details that make me sure you're not her. (You're from Pennsylvania, divorced (iirc, could be wrong. sorry if I am), and your son goes to a liberal arts school (iirc))

But overall your posts about your relationship with your son always seem to contain an odd echo of my relationship with my mom.
 

Oprale

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God you two I like reading your posts. Lol that's all I got to say
 

Pizzabeak

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Ayurvedic medicine is just a refined set of rules for an optimal diet and based off central rules like not throwing the body off balance. So, of course something such as this would hold a dogma regarding marijuana use as bad and throw in a few supporting studies to validate the claim. Doesn't regard much else. Granted, it could be a decent way of living so far as Buddhism offers the most ideal correct way to exist. "If you are mentally stable and have good self-control yes, if not then no." Basically. Some people can be prone to overreacting or being emotionally unstable. It isn't for everyone and at that point it would be a waste of time or used for an odd case of hedonism. However, pot has been reported to have a wide of range benefits, and can of course merely be prone to abuse. "Discussion veers into drugs momentarily and INTP kid out of the blue says, "Well, to be honest, I've gotten high a lot more than I've gotten drunk."" Hopefully, haha. It's more conducive to chain pot than down alcohol, it would seem. Alcohol tends to hit too rough and require a few days to recover as does pot, except with pot it is a bit more manageable. One can consume various amount though, and I think some people have more experience drinking it than others. Most of the time parents can have a tendency to protect their child from pot. I wonder how one would react mostly, and they usually say they have noticed a change in behavior after they smoked pot. May be mostly a matter of opinion at that stage. In the latest news however the UN has purportedly drawn a new stance on drugs, suggesting that a jail sentence is too harsh a punishment. It would basically lead to the war on drugs coming to a close. Not everyone would agree with that though. Most substances are scheduled for having no known medical use, so if the prevailing institution is succumbed then that would allow people to exercise more freedom.
 

Pizzabeak

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The good drugs are the ones that allow you to see the beauty of existence by changing your perspective. Not the ones that make you feel good for no reason.
Agreed.

If you arranged all possible perspectives on a spectrum from absolutely sane to absolutely psychotic, there would be no line; it would just blend together. Actually I don't think anyone has the authority to judge whether a perspective is sane or not.

Not really. It's just relative. Only related to a specific society's norms. Even then those could be based upon arbitrary notions.
 

Jennywocky

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But I'm 20 and I also live in a college town!

Gasp!

Joke's on you, mom! I'm a grown up and you can't tell me what to do anymore :p

Sigh. I will have to hire a few guys with a lot of rolls of duct tape and rent a storage unit... It's for your own good.

No, but seriously, there are a few key details that make me sure you're not her. (You're from Pennsylvania, divorced (iirc, could be wrong. sorry if I am), and your son goes to a liberal arts school (iirc))

it's all correct except my son kinda had to bail after three semesters due to lack of funds and direction; he's currently now living in same college town with his gf, while she attends, he works, and is deciding what to do next.

It's kind of all the fun of going to school there, just without the debt or homework.

But overall your posts about your relationship with your son always seem to contain an odd echo of my relationship with my mom.

That must be fun. We have the best conversations, and we're both kind of crazy in our own way, just separated by age. (My role of parent is mostly just proving advice based on experience at this point, when he asks for it.)

---

But he basically sees pot as a way to expand/alter his perceptions to understand things differently; the booze tends to just lower inhibition without expanding much. Which can be good if you want to socialize and drinking makes that easier, but it's not as much good for other things.
 

Inquisitor

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Ayurvedic medicine is just a refined set of rules for an optimal diet and based off central rules like not throwing the body off balance. So, of course something such as this would hold a dogma regarding marijuana use as bad and throw in a few supporting studies to validate the claim. Doesn't regard much else. Granted, it could be a decent way of living so far as Buddhism offers the most ideal correct way to exist. "If you are mentally stable and have good self-control yes, if not then no." Basically. Some people can be prone to overreacting or being emotionally unstable. It isn't for everyone and at that point it would be a waste of time or used for an odd case of hedonism. However, pot has been reported to have a wide of range benefits, and can of course merely be prone to abuse. "Discussion veers into drugs momentarily and INTP kid out of the blue says, "Well, to be honest, I've gotten high a lot more than I've gotten drunk."" Hopefully, haha. It's more conducive to chain pot than down alcohol, it would seem. Alcohol tends to hit too rough and require a few days to require as does pot, except with pot it is a bit more manageable. One can consume various amount though, and I think some people have more experience drinking it than others. Most of the time parents can have a tendency to protect their child from pot. I wonder how one would react mostly, and they usually say they have noticed a change in behavior after they smoked pot. May be mostly a matter of opinion at that stage. In the latest news however the UN has purportedly drawn a new stance on drugs, suggesting that a jail sentence is too harsh a punishment. It would basically lead to the war on drugs coming to a close. Not everyone would agree with that though. Most substances are scheduled for having no known medical use, so if the prevailing institution is succumbed then that would allow people to exercise more freedom.

The key here is that marijuana is never consumed alone in Ayurvedic medicine. And I would be surprised if smoking is the preferred method of delivery either. More likely is that given pot's drying, light and heating properties, it's prepared along with fatty/sweet/cooling foods and herbs to balance it out. I would also be surprised if regular consumption is ever recommended for anyone. More likely it's for specific conditions and symptoms only and prescribed in limited doses.

This is in sharp contrast to most recreational marijuana use today, where it is smoked alone or with tobacco until the individual is intoxicated.
 

Pizzabeak

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That can be an interesting aspect of it. Western recreational (lack of a better word?) and medicinal uses can also see marijuana being prepared as a butter and then baked into various foods, cookies, sweets, and whatnot. This can usually be a lot more intense than smoking and generally lasts longer as well. Compared to smoking I wonder how much it would affect the body; despite being prone to overdosing that method is usually regarded as the most pristine. Traditionally, I would doubt that regular consumption is recommended. You typically get most out of it if consumed at least once a week rather than everyday or every hour, which is usually easier to achieve with peer pressure. This is only to allow time to do things with your life and encounter situations which you might want to meditate on with pot. It is debatable how effective this meditation could be however.
It isn't that much in contrast. Smoking with tobacco is fairly uncommon and only performed by people who smoke tobacco anyway. Pot culture is attempting to become more sophisticated and so vaporizing the weed is looked at as the cleanest route of administration next to edibles... Even without that, more often than not it only takes one hit to get adequately enough stoned, unless interested in getting higher. Same, the most poignant modern use seems to be chemotherapy pain relieving and only administered when the symptoms are too great. Other uses claim to help with insomnia, anorexia, anxiety, and other general symptoms. So, most people do agree that in any case pot is not as effective when consumed too frequently.
 

Cheeseumpuffs

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it's all correct except my son kinda had to bail after three semesters due to lack of funds and direction; he's currently now living in same college town...

Sounds a lot like my situation.

...with his gf

...aw, oh, nevermind.

he works, and is deciding what to do next.

Sounds a lot like my situation.

It's kind of all the fun of going to school there, just without the debt or homework.

This would be me again, if I thought living here was any fun.

That must be fun. We have the best conversations, and we're both kind of crazy in our own way, just separated by age. (My role of parent is mostly just proving advice based on experience at this point, when he asks for it.)

It can be. It'd be a lot more so if she'd limit the advice-giving to the times I ask for it.

But he basically sees pot as a way to expand/alter his perceptions to understand things differently; the booze tends to just lower inhibition without expanding much. Which can be good if you want to socialize and drinking makes that easier, but it's not as much good for other things.

This is fairly accurate. In a college setting, at least, booze seems to be the go-to for people who want to get laid (which, in my particular college town, turns into frat dudes mostly just trying to get girls as wasted as possible), whereas weed is generally the substance of choice for people who want to talk and actually connect with others or be "thoughtful" or are just looking for interesting, fun experiences (or some combination of those and probably others).

In my experience, alcohol seems to be a drug for narrowing the mind (ie. most thoughts are pushed aside for the sensation of being drunk and motivations/wants tend to become fairly single-minded), and weed in general widens it.
 

Puffy

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I've only tried cannabis on a few occasions. They were effective doses but I haven't been mofo high on it so I can't gauge the full effects. If I was with friends and I had the option between alcohol or cannabis the latter would be more enjoyable imo. I doubt I'd ever use it much on an individual basis though.

OP wise. I have a friend with bi-polar disorder who went into a full psychotic episode from trying cannabis once. You likely don't, but if there's any possibility you have a latent condition I wouldn't risk it.

Although people talk about how weed isn't harmful, every experience I've had with people I've known before and after them taking it up as a habit tends to make me think otherwise.

I'm skeptical of the perceived benefits of it, as they're highly intangible and rely heavily on self-reporting. Not saying they don't exist, but I'm pretty sure they're exaggerated most of the time.

Same. I've been underwhelmed by most regular cannabis users I've met, and the psychedelics community generally.

I basically agree with Aldous Huxley when he said that psychedelic experiences are most useful for people who have already cultivated a certain degree of intelligence, self-insight, and creativity in their lives. There's no real substitute for dedication, hard-work, passion, developed skills, et al, in this regard. You might have a profound experience, or attain useful insight, but unless you can translate it into skills, language, intelligence, direction you've already cultivated, chances are it will go to no real use.

That seems to be the case of most into psychadelics that I've come across. I don't see them building anything of value generally. The people who experience some profound catalysis as a result of a psychdelic experience generally do as it catalyses or builds momentum upon something they've already been working towards.

Recreational is fine if done responsibly. I see the value as there are powerful tools available, I just find the majority who use them uninspiring.
 

Pizzabeak

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I've only tried cannabis on a few occasions. They were effective doses but I haven't been mofo high on it so I can't gauge the full effects.
For the most part, you only get it once or twice before you start inadvertently chasing the dragon (although it should depend on your reasons for delving into it). Possibly, it may vary from person to person. Lower doses are practically safer or arguably more preferable, certainly more manageable. In my own personal experience I just received synaesthetic phenomena. Only occurred the first two or three times I got stoned and it noticeably drifted away each time. Music was able to induce hallucinations in that it allowed the sound to be seen. Other senses were apparently mixed up as well, particularly taste and touch. This occurs naturally and pot merely induced it. I believe it to be more so the full effect of marijuana. Since the window for it isn't accommodating and the phenomena itself even optional, it makes sense why a lot of importance isn't reserved for it, as those effects are usually associated with more hardcore experiences. Pot is considered only a mild psychedelic. With more use your body quickly becomes adjusted to the high and the intensity naturally diminishes. It might be possible with an abstinence of say ten years to reset the acquaintance and conduct phenomena similar to how it was before. However with more developed use hallucinations are immediately less pronounced and visual illusions can be nil. What can then occur are closed eye visuals modulated by external and internal stimuli but nothing as overt as in the beginning. This is generally in addition to the mild hallucinations. What is more important here though is that in most contexts pot is done as a group activity where the people are more relaxed, possibly more content, and overall less inhibited. This is highly variable ground, though, and it is simpler to say emotions are perchance more exaggerated. In other words, it seems the synaesthesia and overall hallucinations manage to take a backseat role when it comes to getting intoxicated, particularly in groups. How fun it can be may largely depend on set and setting, of course. And so, whatever people do on alcohol they replace it with marijuana and may do it stoned instead. Seems mostly a misconception, in my opinion, although gauging for various personalities and tolerances one may be more or less comfortable in any given context. The extravert may feel, for a while, more at home at a party whilst stoned than say in an area with two or fewer people, to use a crude example. It depends. In a more crude manner what essentially is happening is this: dopamine. Marijuana isn't really a psychedelic, as you have seen it dubbed a 'mild psychedelic'; etc, but it is more of a dissociative. It can even be in its own category. Mostly, "psychedelics" take the form of alkaloids, but marijuana hasn't any. Instead, the active ingredients are cannabinoids and terpenes - not really alkaloids! A vaguely similar notion however is that the psychedelics induce a schizophrenic like state which pot has been known to do as well. Huxley claimed that with substances (he took mescaline) the doors of perception open and he became fascinated with the idea that we as a people inhabit a few hidden universes. The downside to this is that it can be difficult to function, hence why early I mentioned lower doses may be preferable. When those too many things are occurring, that is usually likened to a schizophrenic state. Largely being dose dependent it wears off after a day or two and the person who got stoned returns to baseline, although metabolites may persist in the system for as long as a month (although really, it is more like a week. In heavier smokers it would be at least as long as a month...). As a matter of fact, most people that I have seen, at least, aren't really susceptible to those reactions. They usually just get high and attempt to socialize. Again, set & setting. For first time users... It is generally recommended to put a good record on or if that is not feasible, a good film. When the dose is too high and it becomes hard to move, that is probably due to extra dopamine, triggered by the ritual of preparation as well as the drug itself. Usually those symptoms are caused by a lack of dopamine but the schizophrenic acts with stores of excessive dopamine. And, sometimes side effects of schizophrenia are similar to those of Parkinson's. I must merely state that it is an analogous relationship suggesting the adage of any normal thing being able to have a toxic limit (you can, in fact, die from smoking too much weed but the amount is too great to practically be reached. If attempted you may end up dying from something else before the weed actually causes respiratory failure). And so while some people feel lethargic while others more energetic off the same weed, the underlying reasons could be related to what they are wired to enjoy compounded with any temporary mind altering associations the subject may employ. But even that depends. There are various strains of the plant each with specific ratios of the active ingredients thus presumably having slightly unique effects. An arbitrary association - it's easier to get stoned with people who share similar notions! Although being able to relate to an assortment of different types of people is something that is valued. "I'm in the coolest driver's high."
If I was with friends and I had the option between alcohol or cannabis the latter would be more enjoyable imo. I doubt I'd ever use it much on an individual basis though.
To the individual or to the group? Yes, a notable strategy is to never get pot and just wait until you hang out with someone as they usually carry pot then you can get stoned for free. Otherwise, saving funds and time would be the main concern, probably.
OP wise. I have a friend with bi-polar disorder who went into a full psychotic episode from trying cannabis once. You likely don't, but if there's any possibility you have a latent condition I wouldn't risk it.
Not for everyone. Everyone gets stoned though, and they realize how intoxicated they may have been later on - similar to having fun with alcohols. Even in some people it could just be an immature unstable emotional reaction and not an actual episode induced by pot releasing a latent condition. However, I too have heard of cases similar to the bi polar one. He went crazy and his cousins had to physically restrain him. It's hard to say whether every exposure to pot would make them react thus. Yet of course to be on the safe side it is suggested that those people just simply don't try pot. It can cause anxiety but is also used to curtail it in those who suffer from a social anxiety. But, people aren't open to drug consumption and there may be other therapeutical alternatives available should they face a desire to seek it. Recently the foundation has come under scrutiny. A few studies have shown that, although they defined psychosis vulnerability as having experienced an episode or two within the last couple months, and in those affirming individuals it was just suggested that the more acute intense effects of cannabis were more likely in those individuals than in lower psychosis vulnerable subjects. In a similar study subjects were more likely to report stoned like symptoms after given pot, although they were less likely to report hostility and more likely to find the atmosphere and people welcoming. Almost everyone tends to think they are "schizophrenic" or "schizoid" though and of course no one should really run around recommending pot to people who may have a serious condition.
Same. I've been underwhelmed by most regular cannabis users I've met, and the psychedelics community generally.
For the most part, understandable. There seems to be a lot of propaganda that was put out and I wonder how much of it could be related to that. As I've said a lot of people are using it as party drugs and are hippies and people might find that annoying or distasteful.
I basically agree with Aldous Huxley when he said that psychedelic experiences are most useful for people who have already cultivated a certain degree of intelligence, self-insight, and creativity in their lives. There's no real substitute for dedication, hard-work, passion, developed skills, et al, in this regard. You might have a profound experience, or attain useful insight, but unless you can translate it into skills, language, intelligence, direction you've already cultivated, chances are it will go to no real use.
Not a huge fan of Huxley but I can recall him saying Professors would probably be the bunch to most likely get worthwhile experiences from psychedelics. This is because it would expand their mind and they would hypothetically be more likely to let go of institutionalized dogma. I think what he meant is that they would become better or more creative at their job. On the other hand this subject seems more related to artists and how they may function in society.
That seems to be the case of most into psychadelics that I've come across. I don't see them building anything of value generally. The people who experience some profound catalysis as a result of a psychdelic experience generally do as it catalyses or builds momentum upon something they've already been working towards.
Recreational is fine if done responsibly. I see the value as there are powerful tools available, I just find the majority who use them uninspiring.
Similarly, for a while the most promising avenue was to cure alcoholism, similar to one of the earliest uses of opium. Otherwise you can do something like what Steve Jobs did with his drug use and launch a company. But, indeed, the conclusion Strassman drew from his DMT study was that he does not recommend the drug for inducing any life changing actions but that could have been due to any of the limitations he was faced with (reduced to a hospital setting; etc). Nonetheless many maintain the avenue to be one with still further research to be done, and look at them as plausible sources for the origin of religion. But psychedelics are different from other drugs, typically... Take ecstasy for example. And this could be a source of some confusion but that substance has been shown to actually cause brain damage with frequent use, and it is not a psychedelic. The psychedelic community, I don't think, doesn't try to be more than what it is. It's just more like a minor office in a larger building. There have been many cases of people becoming grateful for their sessions, having positive changes noted, and presumably going on to lead fulfilling lives but this was mostly due to the experimental therapy that was allowed. Seems to have a particularly powerful effect on the religious. And, of course, any amount of the available trips can be frightening at first but as it goes on and the effects decrease the intoxicated person can take more control and realize it isn't so bad and they aren't scared, leading to a more positive experience... Otherwise they probably wouldn't try it again. I do wonder, though, about the amount of good anythings there are and how substantial actually only a few of them end up being, or how lackluster most are compared to the unique few which happen to be under the same category.
 

The Introvert

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I basically agree with Aldous Huxley when he said that psychedelic experiences are most useful for people who have already cultivated a certain degree of intelligence, self-insight, and creativity in their lives. There's no real substitute for dedication, hard-work, passion, developed skills, et al, in this regard. You might have a profound experience, or attain useful insight, but unless you can translate it into skills, language, intelligence, direction you've already cultivated, chances are it will go to no real use.


Recreational is fine if done responsibly. I see the value as there are powerful tools available, I just find the majority who use them uninspiring.

Logged in to +1 this.

In my (admittedly limited) experience - I'm not that old - there are costs and benefits to most drugs (barring the really awful ones like heroin or crack or who knows what other garbage people produce), and really, anyone who is trying to tell you that a particular drug is fantastic and there is nothing wrong with it, etc. etc. is blown already, and a worthless resource. They're no longer looking at it objectively.

In my opinion, drugs are worth trying, if you're OK with
a) the potential benefits/ detriments of each
b) the drug's influence on your own psyche, somatic experience, etc. (for example, alcohol tends to suit me better, and all people react differently to different substances)
c) the potential for addiction and your own ability to call it quits if it starts to get in the way of things

In short, dabble if you must, but be careful and try to have some self-awareness.
 

brandnewenju

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I can't tell if this worth. I can tell it may change your point of view.
I actually wonder how it could be if I never tried them and what person would I be.
Drugs put me deeper in hard thoughts I wouldn't normally think of. Because of this, I understand more, tolerate more and I can observe people and their behaviours better.
I think I would be more egoistic, emotional, louder and stupidly happy, I would rather think why I act so certain and then regret it. Of course if these last 4-5 years were "calm".
I don't know, that's the picture of me before I tried drugs for the first time and that was quite long ago. I think I could be happier if I never try them. But it's good to stay away from people who don't really understand their lives. I'm glad I can know, think and see more than them.
But of course taking drugs doesn't guarantee the change of seeing world like it did to me. You never know. You can risk or stay in place you are.
 

PaulMaster

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Smoking weed wont kill you. And although weed smokers love to assert otherwise, it'll get you hooked. Although, kicking the habit isn't all that tough.

Its definitely worth a try. Get a bag of chronic. Fire up Netflix or youtube or cartoons. Have money ready for a pizza.
 

Cherry Cola

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Smoking weed wont kill you. And although weed smokers love to assert otherwise, it'll get you hooked. Although, kicking the habit isn't all that tough.

Its definitely worth a try. Get a bag of chronic. Fire up Netflix or youtube or cartoons. Have money ready for a pizza.

eh? whether you get hooked on it depends entirely on how much you like it which varies from person to person

im the kind of guy who gets hooked unfortunately >: (
 

PaulMaster

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eh? whether you get hooked on it depends entirely on how much you like it which varies from person to person

im the kind of guy who gets hooked unfortunately >: (

It can get you hooked.
 

Lot

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eh? whether you get hooked on it depends entirely on how much you like it which varies from person to person

im the kind of guy who gets hooked unfortunately >: (


I got hooked too. Honestly quitting has been nice. Maybe one day in the future I'll be able to use it responsibly, but that day is far from now. Also, I'll wait till it's legal, and I don't have to worry about them having pesticides, or synthetics sprayed on it.
 

Happy

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I'm a bit late to stumble on this thread, but oh well. I'd like to reiterate a couple of early posts that I think are valuable.

Drugs are tricky because of the addictive factor. Obviously, some drugs play havoc with your brain chemisty and become physically addictive realy quickly, but the addiction I refer to is the euphoria. If you are not equipped with a good set of healthy coping/life skills, or if you have a genuine mood disorder, it's too easy to just drink/smoke/snort/shoot yourself into oblivion. Imagine just being able to turn yourself off and escape the pain of being you. Once this kind of chemical dependence sets in, you'll never be right again.

Oh the other hand, drugs are really, really fun. The key is to use them only occasionally, for purely recreational purposes. Never, ever let yourself depend on them to have [more] fun or relax. I would argue that those are both huge, glow-in-the-dark warning signs that you are going down an unhealthy path.

This is good advice.

What do you mean by hallucinations?

Anyway here goes my bucks:

Cannabis is very mild in terms of hazard and clinical addiction. As far as i know (lazy haphazard but not biased reading from various sources) it doesn't trigger psychosis acutely. Chronic use is a risk factor though. Cannabis is fun and cozy and enhances creative thinking (with emphasis on thinking as opposed to actualization), especially the first few times. You may find new perspectives on yourself and your thought patterns, which may or may not prove applicable in sobriety. It's very easy to over-indulge and enter a spiral of passivity and sluggishness if your life is devoid of purpose and it gets expensive if you do this, but it doesn't really hook you and if you lead a fulfilling life chronic or frequent use won't be very inviting to most i think. The main problem is paranoia. Be with trustworthy friends if you try it. The same goes for the two following classes.

Psychedelics give a mindblowing experience. I'd like to make some mystic statement that everyone should try some but that's unwise. Nevertheless i estimate about 85 % of the population would benefit from them. They're really fascinating substances with immense potential and worth researching even if you don't try yourself. Miles of text could be written, but suffice to say they kind of force you to recalibrate self-awareness and confront your innocent core. This may be a joyful silly child-sage experience or a total emotional trainwreck beyond sober imagination. It's always a life-affirmative lesson either way. Something that bothers me slightly but also tickles my curiosity is the observation that psychedelics from my experience seem to synergize very well with adolescence. The standard cautious advice is to wait until 20-25, which is sound but probably ignorant. I'm pulling this out of somewhere not quite my arse but close enough. It's true though. If you decide to try a psychedelic, i recommend going for a classic (i.e. well researched) one and starting low on dosage.

Dissociatives are dangerously fucking blissful and nihilistic - producing total madness but also total satisfaction. Much more hedonistic than psychedelics, but also more twisted and dark. Basically you emulate the phenomenology of death yet there's no trace of fear or discomfort. I don't think you can feel better than this, but it's chiefly transient. It doesn't reset or teach you anything like psychedelics do. The lesson you could take is to observe your reaction to something not unlike the metaphorical satanic temptation under controlled (yet of course maniacal) circumstances. If i were to recommend one of these substances it would be N2O, also known as nitrous oxide or laughing gas. It's very brief in base duration and also relatively safe, provided the method of administration is correct. Be aware that dissociatives have a large addiction potential and a prominent hook while also being the most mind-altering drugs. Dissociative addiction is likely the most miserable and debilitating kind.

Uppers and downers... Well, it's life experience but not particularly insightful unlike the other classes mentioned above. I can't say anything about opioids/opiates though.

Yellow's rule of thumb is an important one, but it can't be trusted as an insurance. If addiction happens to you, it will find ways to surmount such rational concerns. It's a beast of its own. Tread with caution. Dark lord vortex etc.

Bronto, these are some good descriptions. Kudos.

I'd like to add that in the case of psychedelics, it's extremely important to be in a positive state of mind when experimenting with them. I don't think this can be understood until one has experienced psychedelics.
Also, I think there is value in using them at crossroads points in your life or any time you think you could benefit from a new perspective.

The two drugs I think everyone should experience once in their life are cannabis and LSD. Both, in my opinion, are low-risk (the drugs themselves, not the behaviour of the user).

Cannabis is truly overrated, and needs to be experienced to see that.

LSD is just the best.

Neither should be used regularly. I'd liken drug use to taking a step off a good path. It's easy to find your way back if you only take a step or two, but the further you venture, the harder it is to find your way back.
 
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