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INTP's suck at typing others

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Provocative title, it was actually stated that "INTP's overestimate their ability to type others", approximately 16:40 (it's supposed to jump but the embedded version isn't doing it)

NF Geeks

Agree, disagree?

I'll explain later, I agree, including myself in this which is why I'm usually cautious at definitively typing others.
 

Cherry Cola

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From my experience on this forum what he says is true. INTPs seem to have a penchant for rigorously applying some nebulous theory and then instantly arriving at a conclusion they then refuse to alter. Or they'll get hooked up on one or just a few aspects of a person, whereafter they analyze these aspects til they reach a conclusion and then they'll be sure of that conclusion and incapable of seeing the need for further investigations, no need to look at the overall life of the person they're typing or analyzing, it's enough to have perused some of his or hers works, or to have watched one interview. Screw actually looking them up and typing them normal and mundane way to see if their theorycrafting actually has any bearing on reality. They are also unable to see when other INTPs make these mistakes.

Here is a prime example where we see Leonardo Dicaprio and Bruce Lee end up as INFJs among other things:

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=15800

A theory is developed, and then it's practiced with astonishing confirmation bias, without being crosschecked, leading to hilariously faulty conclusions.
 

The Grey Man

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I guess I've tried to type the people close to me, but never arrived at a conclusion that seems definitive to me. Heck, I can't even type myself beyond a reasonable doubt.
 

Hadoblado

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I think it's true, but it's true for other types as well. There may be different justifications (INTP might think its complex, but they're up to the task; other type might just think it simple), but I think inflated sense of perceptiveness comes as standard.
 

The Grey Man

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I don't really see a reason to generalize INTPs as over-estimating their "typing" abilities. Most probably don't know or give a damn about MBTI. And I thought INTPs were supposed to be truth seekers, not "it's right because I think it is" types. That's J stuff. But now I'm generalizing...
 

ddspada

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I sometimes try to settle on someone's type without having sufficient information about how they think. Behaviour can be a complementary way of reassuring a proposal in this sense, but it is tempting to follow stereotypes and then find a way to rationalize that instead.

I know for a fact I'm not very good at typing yet, so I most often hold back judgement.
I'm fairly new to MBTI and do not have a good pool of exemplary people of each type (my Pokédex is still incomplete :D).
 

Cherry Cola

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INTPs are into MBTI and a common sight on MBTI forums no? They are also typically more knowledgeable about MBTI than other types, they may even be the most knowledgeable type. I think there's a point in pointing out the discrepancy between their general MBTI prowess, and their ability to type. Especially since they are generally quite confident, and usually present neat arguments that appear convincing so that you may be tricked into believing them unless you happen to know the person they are typing well enough to tell that they are wrong.

Let's not forget INTP's are J-doms, that's why they can be very rigid; they arrive at their conclusions by meticulous step by step deduction. But with their aux Ne they are prone to pigeonholing and hence confirmation bias. That's why Auburn was able to watch videos of Leonardo Dicaprio and then type him as an INFJ. He was looking for particular signs and failed to notice that actually Dicaprio oviously isn't an INFJ in the least.

That being said, when I'm wrong about someones type it's usually an INTP that corrects me.
 

The Grey Man

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Confirmation bias. It's a trap that "logical" people often fall into. We must never forget that conviction and the argument follows from supporting evidence, and not the other way around.
 

scorpiomover

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Agree, disagree?
Depends on the INTP.

I'm going to speak about INTPs and ideas in general.

I've noticed that when INTPs think of a subject as requiring a lot of study that they don't know, and are willing to take on that study, they'll tend to over-do it, and assume the minimum standard of competency is far beyond the advanced level. When an INTP is like that, they'll put a lot of effort into it.

When the INTP isn't focussing on it, what he thinks could be jello. The brain simply isn't focussed on it yet.

When an INTP comes to firm conclusions, then they are often far more intransigent to consider another viewpoint than even extremely difficult INTJs. They won't even bother to argue about it. They're so sure, that they dismiss the other person's views without even hearing them out.

Secondly, INTPs are very good at working out a system that has internal consistency. However, they need to develop Ne to check if their theory matches with the general real-world patterns of behaviour that is consistent for most walks of life. Until I worked on double-checking if my Ti-ideas matched my real-life observations, they were about 50/50. 50% were dead on. 50% were wildly crazy that had to be wrong. So as long as I told other people my ideas, once I got past the laughing, I'd have almost 100% certainty of which of my ideas were right.

Once I worked on double-checking if my ideas match external, objective data patterns, I found that at least 70% of my ideas were right, and the rest were mostly right.

So it depends on if the INTP is paying attention, and if the INTP double-checks his theories against reality. If he does both, then he's probably right.

If he pays the attention but doesn't double-check, then he's about 50/50 right, like Dr Mike said, but the INTP will easily see which is which by telling Dr Mike and seeing which ones he didn't find hilariously wrong.

If he doesn't pay attention, it's pot luck.
 

Jennywocky

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Here is a prime example where we see Leonardo Dicaprio and Bruce Lee end up as INFJs among other things:

DiCaprio, INFJ?

It's amazing the things that people can accomplish even without the use of strong recreational drugs.

Secondly, INTPs are very good at working out a system that has internal consistency. However, they need to develop Ne to check if their theory matches with the general real-world patterns of behaviour that is consistent for most walks of life. Until I worked on double-checking if my Ti-ideas matched my real-life observations, they were about 50/50. 50% were dead on. 50% were wildly crazy that had to be wrong. So as long as I told other people my ideas, once I got past the laughing, I'd have almost 100% certainty of which of my ideas were right.


I agree with the general gist of this.


Internal consistency? Great.

But yeah, it has to be anchored IRL, and that's where things can break down -- INTPs tend to get lost in their own heads a lot and/or not realize they might not have ALL the information. The Pe functions help with data collection so we have more of the puzzle to make a picture from.
 

cheese

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What's so strange about DiCaprio being INFJ?
 

Jungle

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It is possibly due to inferior Fe. A big part of Fe is about empathising with other people, so overestimating this function could cause INTPs to believe they understand people more than they actually do.
 

The Gopher

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Yeah I agree completely, I can't even type myself let alone others. I think it's a common problem we have due to both overestimating our ability and simultaneously underestimating it.

The bias is obviously one of the largest issues. I know personally when I was an INTP I was not only really bad at typing others but everything pointed towards me being an INTP, when I was an INFP everything pointed towards me being an INFP. When I encountered real INFP's and became an INFJ everything pointed towards that. So on and so forth with ESFP's and ISFP's. To be fair though I didn't spend much time being an ENFP so maybe I should try that soon.

:D:D
 

Cherry Cola

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What's so strange about DiCaprio being INFJ?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Leonardo_DiCaprio
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/l/leonardo_dicaprio.html

I got attention by being funny at school, pretending to be retarded, and jumping around with a deformed hand.

I was always the kid in school who tried to get attention, not necessarily the class clown, but I'd do little unexpected performances.

I've always been spontaneous and outgoing... I've tried lots of things so I've got some good life experiences, which is great 'cause it means I've got lots of material to work with as an actor.

That should be enough. Personally think he's an ESFP, he's certainly got the quintessential ESFP approach to life. I also doubt visual reading works on a trained Se-dom actor who can and will easily adjust himself so that he fits into whatever context he's in without much effort.

Look at him when he's younger and less composed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh8BfKhXF2E

There is nothing that's INFJ about him but there are tons of things which make it impossible for him to be an INFJ. The main thing being that he's a simple guy through and through.

It takes an INTP to miss all this and type Dicaprio as INFJ by forcefully injecting him into a closed system wherein he is mutilated and altered.
 

dark+matters

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I can't speak for anyone else, but this INTP really, really sucks at typing people. I refused to believe I was an INTP for a long time, actually.
 

Jennywocky

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I can't speak for anyone else, but this INTP really, really sucks at typing people. I refused to believe I was an INTP for a long time, actually.


*throws big wrench into conversation just to be amusing*

Are you an INTP?
 

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I usually mistake with one letter, but then correct it quicly, so I disagree with OP.
 

Oblivious

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Strictly speaking, your mbti type is a classification of your preferences, and not a measure of intelligence or skill, which is what your ability to type someone would be.
 

dark+matters

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*throws big wrench into conversation just to be amusing*

Are you an INTP?

LOL I'm still not sure! It seems most likely. Others who know me well assume I'm an INTP and likewise are surprised to hear I've tested as an INFP before. I didn't think I was an INTP until an INTJ friend suggested I take a second look at my old, early-college MBTI results.

This INTJ friend cited a great deal of information about why he didn't get the INFP vibe, and his reasons for thinking INTP rang much truer for me than the INFP descriptions did. Even back then, I answered about 60% feeling and 40% thinking preference and my job preferences indicated both "investigative" and "artistic" occupations as my main interests.

Now that I've lived on my own for several years, I usually test as an INTP on online tests, but I'll still get an INFP now and then if I'm in a certain mood.

I recently took this test ---> http://freestrengthstest.workuno.com/free-strengths-test.html and got a bunch of thinker/student stuff in my top strengths, but some of my lesser strengths were excellence and empathy, which sound pretty INFP.

I've also tested as INTJ (not even remotely possible). But it seems most likely that I was born an INTP and was artificially rearranged by my environment into INFPness for as long as I had to be dependent on others for my survival.

In early adolescence, I was really nerdy (lost interest in everything aside from drawing comic books) and got picked on all the time. So I was pulled out of school and isolated in an extreme religious setting. I got completely exhausted by all the screaming matches and other unnecessary punishments when I'd argue science versus religion, and some of the religious kids were actually quite nice to me. It was a real relief.

I learned to appreciate their quest for authenticity and something beyond what one can see, and I learned how to survive that setting.

It seems that feeling as though one was born an atheist seems to be related to having a "rational," type of personality, which explains a lot about why I slowly but surely gravitated back as far away from religion as possible into a comfortable relationship with critical thinking and skepticism. Now that my former high school/early college friends and I have all gone our separate ways, my former INF friends and I have less and less and less in common. They can't stand my newly deepened interests in math, science, and non-religious philosophy. They also think I'm very strange to dream about getting a PhD when they mainly just want deep, close, meaningful relationships, etc.

I think the frequently-off typing that INTPs often engage in might be due to the need to constantly question, rethink and reevaluate. I'll never be certain that I'm any type at all. I'm very skeptical of psychology in general. :rolleyes:
 

Jennywocky

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Wow, I was just poking a little fun -- it's like dropping a nickel in the slot machine, and $300 in tokens pours out all over the floor!
 

Mithrandir

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Seems to me that ability to type varies from person to person, even among INTPs.

I tend to hold off final judgement until it seems like I have all the pieces to work with. The hardest part for me is not being able to witness an internal process and only knowing someone in public. People tend to behave very different in public vs private, so I don't feel like I could confidently type someone without observing both to some extent. Likewise, I'm not confident until I've heard someone describe their internal process or at least have had a conversation with them.

EDIT: Case in point, I could never really nail down whether my sister was INFP or INTP. I always leaned toward INFP because of her interest and study of art and high personal values (vegetarian by principle, for example). What was always hidden from me was the internal process. We had a conversation about this yesterday and she clearly identified with Ti and Ne and tested T as well. Turns out she just hardly ever expressed her Ti judgements to me.
 

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Mithrandir

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In my experience some people are hard to pin down, for unknown reasons.
I think sometimes it's more complicated when you've grown up with a person. Between observing them in different stages of development, subjective feelings, and a history of emotionally charged exchanges, it can easily become a forest for the trees situation.
 

Architect

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I think sometimes it's more complicated when you've grown up with a person. Between observing them in different stages of development, subjective feelings, and a history of emotionally charged exchanges, it can easily become a forest for the trees situation.

True, I have that trouble with one of my sisters (the other was obviously an ESTJ). I also have that trouble with a friend of mine, I've only known him for a few years.
 

paradoxparadigm7

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Ni doms have the edge in typing. They take an overall impression and don't get bogged down in analysis as easily as thinking types. Their impression can infer internal motivation which is a big part of typing. But I think the best in typing yourself is yourself.

INTPs can get into over analysis and can come up with what seems to be an accurate assessment since they back up their logic with evidence but this can be the reason they might miss the mark.
 

Oddity

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Especially since they are generally quite confident, and usually present neat arguments that appear convincing so that you may be tricked into believing them unless you happen to know the person they are typing well enough to tell that they are wrong.
You are confusing us with those NTJ things.
 

dark+matters

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This post is too long for an INTP, too bad, my friend.

Not that you didn't try though :).

LOL! Ahhh, I'm having an online identity crisis! Took a test again and got INTP again (http://www.celebritytypes.com). *shrug* I'm still totally, 100% okay with the possibility of being an INFP. If I did still think I was predominantly an INFP, I think the only thing that would change would be how I'd plug every ounce of my energy and education into creative writing, and that I'd pay a lot more attention to enhancing my referential power versus trying to indulge my love of analysis. Instead of being an INFP, I think it's just more likely that I'm a sad, blunt, procrastinating INTP who doesn't want to focus on math and would prefer to rant on internet forums while going through my many life changes. *still one of you!* *turns mirror around* Don't you guys question your typology labels to make absolutely sure?

@Jennywocky- yes. :) I'm glad it was still funny and not offensively TMI (not my intent. I get in big trouble for saying exactly what I think sometimes).

Getting back to the OP, I think that although some INTPs who specialize in psychology would learn to become very wise and accurate typers, without that specialized education, it may be the INTJs, INFJs, and/or ENFPs that are the most naturally accurate at putting people into "types," with or without prior MBTI knowledge.

This is anecdotal, but the INJs/ENFPS I have met often have unusually (sometimes humorously) clear visions about how they think people or a social situation are really interlocking, and their visions often soar quite far above the ability of most of the rest of us to understand what's going on, socially. I find it impressive. The other INTPs I've befriended in "real life" and not online (I can only think of two or three) tended to be... quite moving and brilliant about some things, like philosophy, computer stuff, or their job, but a bit unrealistic about certain social situations. I definitely relate to this. I'm alert, but experience social colorblindness all the time and get in huge trouble for it! I've also often clung to inaccurate theories until I've been proven wrong. I've also forced friends and family to take typing tests and I get their types wrong every time. (I even got the INFP wrong!)

The INFPs I've befriended also tend... not to be very accurate about typing either themselves or others. But they're willing to listen and empathize with any kind of personal exploration! That's cool.
 

dark+matters

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Ni doms have the edge in typing. They take an overall impression and don't get bogged down in analysis as easily as thinking types. Their impression can infer internal motivation which is a big part of typing. But I think the best in typing yourself is yourself.

INTPs can get into over analysis and can come up with what seems to be an accurate assessment since they back up their logic with evidence but this can be the reason they might miss the mark.

*thumbs up*
 

k9b4

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In my experience some people are hard to pin down, for unknown reasons.
Multi-talented people are hard to type because MBTI theory assumes dichotomy of talents, which is incorrect.

It is entirely possible for someone to be talented in thinking and feeling at the same time.

You can consider the word 'talent' to be synonymous with 'cognitive preferences' if you want, but this is not exactly correct and 'cognitive preferences' is a stupid concept.
 

Cherry Cola

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No they don't. What I meant was they are "generally quite confident" in the way they present their arguments, owing to the the work they've put in internally beforehand.
 

Oddity

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Provocative title, it was actually stated that "INTP's overestimate their ability to type others", approximately 16:40 (it's supposed to jump but the embedded version isn't doing it)

NF Geeks

Agree, disagree?
Eh, just another NJ worshipper. When will this bias in favor of Ni users and against Ne users end?
 

Brontosaurie

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when the hero/auteur figure is lost in the interconnectedness
 

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Ni doms have the edge in typing. They take an overall impression and don't get bogged down in analysis as easily as thinking types.

Hmm, I guess I'd give it to you that Ni doms (INFJ/INTJ) are better, but I'm not sure if it's due to an overall impression, rather the opposite. Thinking of me against an INFJ. I'll step back and look at it globally, but she will get into the details. For example she has a brilliant insight into Jung, who people have the hardest time typing. Everybody just looks at his through process, but she looked at his personal life and struck gold. For example, he was lazy and got others to do all his work for him, which is indicative of INTP. There are many other INTP clues in his personal life.

Ni - narrow and deep. Combined with Fe interest in the individual I think INFJ's are best at it.
 

Ex-User (8886)

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Hmm, I guess I'd give it to you that Ni doms (INFJ/INTJ) are better, but I'm not sure if it's due to an overall impression, rather the opposite. Thinking of me against an INFJ. I'll step back and look at it globally, but she will get into the details. For example she has a brilliant insight into Jung, who people have the hardest time typing. Everybody just looks at his through process, but she looked at his personal life and struck gold. For example, he was lazy and got others to do all his work for him, which is indicative of INTP. There are many other INTP clues in his personal life.

Ni - narrow and deep. Combined with Fe interest in the individual I think INFJ's are best at it.

I don't agree. From what I observed, the fastest typing is from ENTPs. INFJs can be interested in people, but they need a lot of information to type someone, Ne do it faster, because need less information. INFJ can know deeper people, but after time, and only close friends. If you don't believe me, make contest: type somebody after a few words or after only looking at someone. ENTPs quickly recognize people and me (INTP) too, because I trust my intuition and develop it, because Ti is handicapped in such things.
 

Architect

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I don't agree. From what I observed, the fastest typing is from ENTPs.

Could be, I've never seen an ENTP type somebody. But at any rate I was going for accuracy, not speed.
 

redbaron

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Accuracy is kind of important. Other people don't like it when you putt into the wrong mini-golf hole. Then again in mini-golf half the fun comes from finding new and creative ways to get to the hole :cat:
 

Ex-User (8886)

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that's what you said isn't accurate.

typing others always ongoing over time, even if it is seconds.

who will type better in seconds, ENTP or INFJ ?

and then, if you have more time, for example days, it's not difficult to type people, because theory of personality types is pretty easy, doesn't require much intellect or knowledge. So after some time, everyone can type everyone.

what I said about infjs, is that they can know deeper, but not only personality type, I mean, we are much more than personality type.

so I still think, ENTPs are the best at typing others, especially if they need to type new people;
and intps aren't bad too, but it really depends on individual, more precisly - on his faith in his intuition; the man in the video is somewhere right, Ti sucks when it comes to people, but he forgot about Ne, which is for me mainly as an intp, very important

but this is only my opinion
 

Hadoblado

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Why would you shift context to a frame of reference that is irrelevant? Nobody can type properly in seconds, so it doesn't matter. Even if ENTPs did have the best success rate at that speed (-> conjecture), any confidence they had in their readings would be utter delusion.

Even with days, typing is hard. If you think it's not, you either don't realise how good you are at it compared to other people, or you don't realise you're doing it wrong. :cat:
 

Cherry Cola

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Hmm, I guess I'd give it to you that Ni doms (INFJ/INTJ) are better, but I'm not sure if it's due to an overall impression, rather the opposite. Thinking of me against an INFJ. I'll step back and look at it globally, but she will get into the details. For example she has a brilliant insight into Jung, who people have the hardest time typing. Everybody just looks at his through process, but she looked at his personal life and struck gold. For example, he was lazy and got others to do all his work for him, which is indicative of INTP. There are many other INTP clues in his personal life.

Ni - narrow and deep. Combined with Fe interest in the individual I think INFJ's are best at it.

I would call looking at his personal life the holistic global approach. Everyone already knows his work to some degree.
 

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I would call looking at his personal life the holistic global approach. Everyone already knows his work to some degree.

OK, definitional. But I still have trouble associating that kind of global thinking with INFJ's. I'm the one taking that approach, she's the one taking specific examples. Possibly it's just us, but it's the difference between an introverted and extraverted function after all.
 

Reluctantly

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Ni doms have the edge in typing. They take an overall impression and don't get bogged down in analysis as easily as thinking types. Their impression can infer internal motivation which is a big part of typing. But I think the best in typing yourself is yourself.

INTPs can get into over analysis and can come up with what seems to be an accurate assessment since they back up their logic with evidence but this can be the reason they might miss the mark.

I think you're right. Typing takes a lot of time (experience with the individual) and restraint from finalizing judgement - to see through personas and see the motivations and proclivities a person has. The problem with being a Ji dom is that INTPs I think tend to want to finalize their judgement in typing. So they either start with some axiomatic assumptions that they filter their judgements through (which could be wrong) or they want to logically derive a conclusion, trusting more in a reasoning process than in synthesized perceptions.
 
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