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INTP's and selfishness / stinginess

DIALECTIC

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Being extremely independent and self-reliant is one of our main characteristics.

However being too independent / self-reliant leads to being selfish and stinginess i found as every action (therefore every expense) first has to be analyzed and categorized as logic / illogic before being performed...

I would like to know if you find yourself being selfish in general and tight with money as well or is it just me ?
Please note that i wasn't always like that; until my mid 30's i was quite the opposite: altruistic (but mainly out of unsecurity: so that people would like me for who i wasn't, now however what you see is what you get as my old unhealthy / unsecured persona has been obliterated) and i was spending money as much as i was saving (luckily i still saved some)...

In the last couple of years i realized money buys you freedom / independence from people / society therefore i am very careful how i use it so no more expensive and useless clothes etc. In a way i am back to the way i used to be when i was a pre-teen (my parents and grand parents are Si dominant !).
 

TimeAsylums

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Being extremely independent and self-reliant is one of our main characteristics.
Yes.
However being too independent / self-reliant leads to being selfish and stinginess
Hmm..no. Leads to being selfish? Assuming every action has been objectively analyzed with logic, then it should be categorized as fair, no?
However, yes decisions may very well be perceived as "stinginess," to other people. I can easily see that.
i found as every action (therefore every expense) first has to be analyzed and categorized as logic / illogic before being performed...
spoken like an INTP
I would like to know if you find yourself being selfish in general and tight with money as well or is it just me ?
I don't really like your usage and definition of "selfish." Yes I find myself very frugal and tight with money. Since I don't make an "excess," I'm always thinking "but what purpose does it serve?/How long will it last." etc...
Please note that i wasn't always like that; until my mid 30's i was quite the opposite: altruistic (but mainly out of unsecurity: so that people would like me for who i wasn't, now however what you see is what you get as my old unhealthy / unsecured persona has been obliterated) and i was spending money as much as i was saving (luckily i still saved some)...

In the last couple of years i realized money buys you freedom / independence from people / society therefore i am very careful how i use it so no more expensive and useless clothes etc. In a way i am back to the way i used to be (my parents and grand parents are Si dominant !).
Truest statement yet in bold.
 

Architect

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Yes I think this is completely true, unfortunately too true for me and my INTP kid. It is probably true for the reasons you mention.
 

DIALECTIC

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I don't really like your usage and definition of "selfish." Yes I find myself very frugal and tight with money.
Yes it's not a fair usage, you're right i don't like it either, i would say "selfish" in the way most people would perceive me... Then again, does their own altruism come from the head (just like me before i.e: pleasing others in order to please their own ego) or truly from the heart like true saints ?
 

Jennywocky

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I agree with the premise, regarding myself. I can be very tight with money and time regarding OTHER people, since I'm basically keeping control over my resources as to allow myself the most future flexibility. And when I do spend it, even on myself, I'm usually using it to allow myself the most flexibility and most options in the future.

I've eased up a little as I've gotten older.

For people who are really close to me, sometimes the need to connect will rise above the need to preserve options; I'll spend resources sometimes so that they can experience something that I've enjoyed (movies, books, etc.) so that we can possess a shared experience.
 

DIALECTIC

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Arthur Schopenhauer's essay:
Wisdom Of Life: Property, Or What A Man Has



Money alone is absolutely good, because it is not only a concrete satisfaction of one need in particular; it is an abstract satisfaction of all. If a man has an independent fortune, he should regard it as a bulwark against the many evils and misfortunes which he may encounter; he should not look upon it as giving him leave to get what pleasure he can out of the world, or as rendering it incumbent upon him to spend it in this way.

People who are not born with a fortune, but end by making a large one through the exercise of whatever talents they possess, almost always come to think that their talents are their capital, and that the money they have gained is merely the interest upon it; they do not lay by a part of their earnings to form a permanent capital, but spend their money much as they have earned it. Accordingly, they often fall into poverty; their earnings decreased, or come to an end altogether, either because their talent is exhausted by becoming antiquated,--as, for instance, very often happens in the case of fine art; or else it was valid only under a special conjunction of circumstances which has now passed away.

There is nothing to prevent those who live on the common labor of their hands from treating their earnings in that way if they like; because their kind of skill is not likely to disappear, or, if it does, it can be replaced by that of their fellow-workmen; morever, the kind of work they do is always in demand; so that what the proverb says is quite true, _a useful trade is a mine of gold_. But with artists and professionals of every kind the case is quite different, and that is the reason why they are well paid. They ought to build up a capital out of their earnings; but they recklessly look upon them as merely interest, and end in ruin.

On the other hand, people who inherit money know, at least, how to distinguish between capital and interest, and most of them try to make their capital secure and not encroach upon it; nay, if they can, they put by at least an eighth of their interests in order to meet future contingencies. So most of them maintain their position. These few remarks about capital and interest are not applicable to commercial life, for merchants look upon money only as a means of further gain, just as a workman regards his tools; so even if their capital has been entirely the result of their own efforts, they try to preserve and increase it by using it. Accordingly, wealth is nowhere so much at home as in the merchant class.

It will generally be found that those who know what it is to have been in need and destitution are very much less afraid of it, and consequently more inclined to extravagance, than those who know poverty only by hearsay. People who have been born and bred in good circumstances are as a rule much more careful about the future, more economical, in fact, than those who, by a piece of good luck, have suddenly passed from poverty to wealth. This looks as if poverty were not really such a very wretched thing as it appears from a distance. The true reason, however, is rather the fact that the man who has been born into a position of wealth comes to look upon it as something without which he could no more live than he could live without air; he guards it as he does his very life; and so he is generally a lover of order, prudent and economical.

But the man who has been born into a poor position looks upon it as the natural one, and if by any chance he comes in for a fortune, he regards it as a superfluity, something to be enjoyed or wasted, because, if it comes to an end, he can get on just as well as before, with one anxiety the less; or, as Shakespeare says in Henry VI.,[1]

But it should be said that people of this kind have a firm and excessive trust, partly in fate, partly in the peculiar means which have already raised them out of need and poverty,--a trust not only of the head, but of the heart also; and so they do not, like the man born rich, look upon the shallows of poverty as bottomless, but console themselves with the thought that once they have touched ground again, they can take another upward flight. It is this trait in human character which explains the fact that women who were poor before their marriage often make greater claims, and are more extravagant, than those who have brought their husbands a rich dowry; because, as a rule, rich girls bring with them, not only a fortune, but also more eagerness, nay, more of the inherited instinct, to preserve it, than poor girls do. If anyone doubts the truth of this, and thinks that it is just the opposite, he will find authority for his view in Ariosto's first Satire; but, on the other hand, Dr. Johnson agrees with my opinion. _A woman of fortune_, he says, _being used to the handling of money, spends it judiciously; but a woman who gets the command of money for the first time upon her marriage, has such a gusto in spending it, that she throws it away with great profusion_. And in any case let me advise anyone who marries a poor girl not to leave her the capital but only the interest, and to take especial care that she has not the management of the children's fortune.
 

DIALECTIC

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I can be very tight with money and time regarding OTHER people, since I'm basically keeping control over my resources as to allow myself the most future flexibility.
Do you think it's some sort of survival mecanism because we are naturally gifted through Ne to project into the future how life would be with less money at our disposal ? Because we'd rather not mix too much with society and having less money means precisely that we would have no other choice !


I'll spend resources sometimes so that they can experience something that I've enjoyed (movies, books, etc.) so that we can possess a shared experience.
YES !!!!! I will also share with close friends / associates and family whatever i think could be beneficial for their personal evolution, whatever that maybe; CDs, DVDs, books, food anything. I find it to be a very humanistic kind of giving as opposed to what i find society's false giving ("i give you X so that i can tell everyone i gave you X, so i can feel better about myself because deep down i don't like myself...").
 

Hadoblado

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I am very critical of every purchase I make for myself, but not for those I make for others. I don't like exposing my Ti in front of non-rationals, thus I forgo my characteristic frugalness to better socialise.

TBH, I'm only frugal because I'm really poor. If I didn't actually need to think of money in terms of survival, I don't think I'd care at all. I'm not sure I'm INTP though.
 

Architect

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I agree with the premise, regarding myself. I can be very tight with money and time regarding OTHER people, since I'm basically keeping control over my resources as to allow myself the most future flexibility. And when I do spend it, even on myself, I'm usually using it to allow myself the most flexibility and most options in the future.

Perfectly well said. I would add that spending money on myself usually takes the form increasing my capabilities or powers. For example, I will easily spend money on computers or technology because that has the potential to increase what I can do. One exception to this is buying time. As I've gotten more money I am more willing to spend money to save myself time.
 

DIALECTIC

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I am very critical of every purchase I make for myself, but not for those I make for others. I don't like exposing my Ti in front of non-rationals, thus I forgo my characteristic frugalness to better socialise.

TBH, I'm only frugal because I'm really poor. If I didn't actually need to think of money in terms of survival, I don't think I'd care at all. I'm not sure I'm INTP though.
Out of unsecurity (and because i wanted to be "popular"), i used to give my shirt to people ! Then again, giving one's shirt (and being taken advantage of !!) is the main trait of the ESFJ... Which in fact happens to be the chronic stress induced / negative twin of the INTP !

Nowadays, most of the time, i can't care less what people think of me. Being "popular" doesn't compute with me anymore.

However there are times when yes my overanalytical mind does make me cringe but i just can't help it ha !
Last time, for example, i met up with a friend to go to the cinema and i pretended i had things to do afterwards so that i wouldn't spend money for eating out ! Because i thought: why should i eat out and spend money when i have plenty foods in my fridge at home ! Just a few years ago i would have paid the cinema for both and the restaurant for both also, as i didn't want my "friends" then to think i was tight... Those times are WELL gone ha ha !

Also, when my dog (who was my best friend EVER) died a few months ago, after i came back from the vet, i looked at that big bag of 20Kg of pricy dry food i had bought just a few days prior and i thought "oh what a waste of money...!!!" I did think it was out of order to think this way but i just couldn't help it... Am i an evil INTP ?
 

Duxwing

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I am a skinflint par excellence. I love my money so much that I miss the actual bill form of the thousand dollar fortune that I'd saved up during my earlier years. And yes, the money is exactly for the purpose of "just in case," and I will suffer almost anything to preserve it in case I have to buy some ludicrously expensive object or service lest I suffer some grievous harm or inconvenience. In my mind speaks a voice, "Hoard, hoard, hoard for the future!"

And I hoard almost everything and anything that crosses my path, even in video games. In Fallout 3, for example, I amassed an arsenal so huge that scrolling down its length took well over a minute. I had scores of rifles of every sort: hunting rifles, assault rifles, laser rifles, and plasma rifles, not to mention lever-action rifles, sniper rifles, and alien disintegrator rifles. I also had personal artillery: miniguns, flamethrowers, Gatling lasers, a mass driver, along with missile launchers, ion cannons, and a few nuclear bazookas. Needless to say, my array of personal defense weapons was also enormous: .32's and .44's, 10mm automatics and submachineguns of the same caliber, laser pistols, plasma pistols, and even the sidearm of the captain of the alien mothership from whence I'd plundered the disintegrators and ion cannons, and that list doesn't even include the semi-automatic shotguns, double barreled shotguns, sawed off shotguns, and microwave emitter.

And that just barely scratches the surface of the metric tons of armaments, armor, explosives, supplies, and tools that I keep in two lockers and a filing cabinet. Every time I play, I pick everything up--even the garbage!--and often have to make several trips to carry it all back home. Realizing that arms were plentiful, I started carrying a bare-bones loadout to make room for even more scavenged things. Ah, the fun!

And if a second apocalypse occurred, then I would be ready to arm, train, and supply at least two companies of mixed infantry. If I could locate a good supplier of basic arms and armor, then I could probably give even challenge the Brotherhood of Steel for control of the Eastern wastes.

-Duxwing
 

DIALECTIC

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I am a skinflint par excellence. I love my money so much that I miss the actual bill form of the thousand dollar fortune that I'd saved up during my earlier years. And yes, the money is exactly for the purpose of "just in case," and I will suffer almost anything to preserve it in case I have to buy some ludicrously expensive object or service lest I suffer some grievous harm or inconvenience. In my mind speaks a voice, "Hoard, hoard, hoard for the future

The only thing i ever hoarded was porn... Then i ended up purposely deleting my whole collection. I had also started with books but after buying about 30 in a year i realized after a while that i was quite happy reading the same books again and again as i could think a new perspective with every new reading... However at the moment i am itching for new ideas so maybe i should buy a new book, read just a few pages of it and get stimulated enough for a couple of weeks...


What's the psychological meaning of hoarding ?
 

ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε

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In a way, everyone is selfish. Everyone is acting for their own reasons, whether they be conscious or unconscious. This, of course, would make the word lose practical meaning. I've got the feeling that we all have an intuitive understanding of how the word is used in most contexts though. Because of this, Ill just pretend that's how it's being used here.

I'm selfish in the sense that I, for the most part, focus on pleasing myself as opposed to trying to please others. I don't care to intentionally harm others, but I suppose that it's unavoidable because people expect a sort of altruism. Also, if I think someone is upset about something trivial, I can be pretty unsympathetic about it. I won't help people unless I want to help them.

I'm unselfish in the sense that I don't really expect anyone to do me any favors. I wouldn't try to pressure the person or expect them to help me unless they legitimately want to. If I want to help someone, I will help them without expecting anything back in return. I can also give gifts in the same way.

I don't live on my own yet but I think I'm going to be very frugal with my money, for a different reason than most people. I don't really want anything. I just want the bare essentials for survival, clothes, and a computer with internet access. I'm not even sure if I'm going to buy a car; I'll avoid this if possible. All the extra money can sit in investments for my retirement.
 

Architect

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I am a skinflint par excellence. I love my money so much that I miss the actual bill form of the thousand dollar fortune that I'd saved up during my earlier years. And yes, the money is exactly for the purpose of "just in case," and I will suffer almost anything to preserve it in case I have to buy some ludicrously expensive object or service lest I suffer some grievous harm or inconvenience. In my mind speaks a voice, "Hoard, hoard, hoard for the future!"

...

Hilarious, too true.
 

Minimalist

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As individuals, it is not possible to act based upon the motives of another. Despite communication's attempt at bridging the gap between the self and the other, it simply cannot be done without some transformative process that I have yet to reach (can't speak for others.) What I am saying is that you cannot truly know what is in the mind of another. The ones best suited at fulfilling our needs are ourselves since we have the best access to information concerning our own mental states. This does not mean that we are successful at self-fulfillment, just that we are the most qualified. I cannot see anything inherently morally reprehensible about this truth unless one seeks to violate certain arbitrary rights of another (which is another topic entirely). In addition to this stems a law that I believe governs this limited reality: the advantages to an individual of self-reliance.

The more independent an individual is, the less reliant upon external factors (Especially others) for survival they become, thus making them more likely to survive. In assisting others, you may think that you are being generous, or helping them, when in actuality you are encouraging dependency and weakness. A common phrase used that seems to ring true in practical reality is this, "give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life." What does this mean? SImply that if one truly desires to help another (if this desire stems from the internal reward for doing so, then is that not still a selfish motive?), then some ways of doing so are more effective or permanent than others.

In short, I'll finish with this: selfishness is neither inherently good nor evil (if one even define good and evil) but is inherent part of the limitations of human consciousness. Sometimes selfishness can be shortsighted and actually harmful to the self (ie creates an overall environment that is undesirable, for example a town of thieves or murderers which eventually self-destructs). The condemnation of selfishness by others is, at times, an attempt to guilt one into giving into the will of another. Do not fret over selfishness, for it is all we have so long as our perspectives are limited to our own. Just be sure that your selfishness involves an understanding of the bigger picture, or you yourself may be threatened by that unseen bigger picture.
 

ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε

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The more independent an individual is, the less reliant upon external factors (Especially others) for survival they become, thus making them more likely to survive.

That explains why INTPs are such a rare type. (Ha!)

Seriously, I agree with your post for the most part. I do realize that there are problems with the above.
 

Rocco

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The more independent an individual is, the less reliant upon external factors (Especially others) for survival they become, thus making them more likely to survive.
Yes, but replace "survive" with "survive long enough to work up the nerve to finally make a move on that cutie who's been eyeing them all night".

Is anything inherently good or evil?
No. :yin-yang:
 

Minimalist

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That explains why INTPs are such a rare type. (Ha!)

Seriously, I agree with your post for the most part. I do realize that there are problems with the above.

Striving for self reliance and actually becoming self reliant are two different things. INTPs tend to desire self reliance, but do they achieve it? I would also be curious to know if INTPs breed at a lower rate and thereby restrict the frequency of their gene distribution. I suppose when it comes down to it, social skills are necessary to advance ones position in a hierarchical society. To be completely self reliant is not possible in a world where the self does not have complete control over the other or the environment. Isolation from society would demand that one learn hunting, foraging, and survival skills. I have picked these skills up, but I like many INTPs prefer thinking to physical labor. Thinking about systems, theories, and philosophy only have their productive value within settled societies or tend to lead to them. Even today being an INTP is a crapshoot. You either sink into insanity or rise into genius. Much of this Is determined by the environment we are in. Einstein could very well have gone a completely different route if he was born Into a 3rd world country. He was exposed to an environment that fostered his development, acquired a theoretical interest whom others turned practical, and found his place In society. So many others don't. Einstein didn't have the internet...
 

walfin

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I am quite willing to spend money, if the other person is somebody close to me.

But when it comes to myself, I see-saw between profligate spending and being a scrooge.

I generally give to buskers too (not beggars).

Independence!=selfishness, it's quite possible to be selfish without being independent or even wanting to be independent.
 

Pyropyro

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I invest on other people as well just under the concept of good will. I might have some benefit on said investment in the future but at least I know that I enjoyed myself in the mean time. If they can't or don't reciprocate then at least I made myself feel better, if they reciprocate then all the better.

I don't think there's such a thing as true altruism (benefit on one party but no benefit nor harm on the other), the best model that we could do for each other is a "win-win" scenario.

I'm also studying interdependence or using the skills and time of others to maximize your own. Being independent is okay, but I think I can grow more with the help of other people. I'll be using my future business for this personal study. I have an INTJ partner to take care of the business stuff while I provide the R&D.
 

Jennywocky

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Do you think it's some sort of survival mecanism because we are naturally gifted through Ne to project into the future how life would be with less money at our disposal ? Because we'd rather not mix too much with society and having less money means precisely that we would have no other choice !

I don't mind mixing with people as much as some on this forum (I'm an SX/SP on the enneagram variant chart, and that SX drives me to want to connect deeply with individuals, even if I hate being enmeshed with them and losing freedom.)

However, my self-reliance doesn't leave me feeling happy with DEPENDING on them. I like to have the freedom to do what I want when I want, and that is not just an "in the moment" thing, it involves strategically positioning myself in the future to enable as much flexibility for myself as possible.

It can even play out regarding my willingness to commit to events. EVen when I want to attend something, I feel hesitant because it's a schedule commitment.

YES !!!!! I will also share with close friends / associates and family whatever i think could be beneficial for their personal evolution, whatever that maybe; CDs, DVDs, books, food anything. I find it to be a very humanistic kind of giving as opposed to what i find society's false giving ("i give you X so that i can tell everyone i gave you X, so i can feel better about myself because deep down i don't like myself...").

Well, there are people who give more conventionally who still do so authentically. They are just valuing items in a different way than I am .(For example, they are expressing a relational commitment, or using a particular item that has social significance to show love. Their "language" is different so to speak.) Not that some people don't abuse that, but the "language" thing in terms of what has significance attached and what that significance is, is different.
 

Duxwing

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I don't mind mixing with people as much as some on this forum (I'm an SX/SP on the enneagram variant chart, and that SX drives me to want to connect deeply with individuals, even if I hate being enmeshed with them and losing freedom.)

So you're an ISXP?

However, my self-reliance doesn't leave me feeling happy with DEPENDING on them. I like to have the freedom to do what I want when I want, and that is not just an "in the moment" thing, it involves strategically positioning myself in the future to enable as much flexibility for myself as possible.

I feel the same way.

It can even play out regarding my willingness to commit to events. EVen when I want to attend something, I feel hesitant because it's a schedule commitment.

Oh yes. Oh yes. Me too.

Well, there are people who give more conventionally who still do so authentically. They are just valuing items in a different way than I am .(For example, they are expressing a relational commitment, or using a particular item that has social significance to show love. Their "language" is different so to speak.) Not that some people don't abuse that, but the "language" thing in terms of what has significance attached and what that significance is, is different.

I wish that we could be secure enough in ourselves to just say "I love you" without having to 'demonstrate' our love by alienating resources from ourselves. Whenever it happens, I can almost see the social network of dominance hierarchies and breeding pairs; the overload of stomach-turning information makes my head swim.

-Duxwing

P.S. Yay! You're back! I haven't seen you here in a while. :)
 

Mr Write

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I suspect it may be an INTP tendency in general to save things for our future self; maybe he can appreciate them better than we can.

I don't think we INTP's really live in the present. We seem to just shift between past and future.
 

Architect

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I don't think we INTP's really live in the present. We seem to just shift between past and future.

Interesting insight. I have to think about that one.
 

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I have always thought that as well. Ne Si?

I think so. I do think about the present a fair bit though, of course we all do. Need to consider relative amounts.
 

TimeAsylums

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Come on! Did you guys even read myy perception oof time thread?? Where's own8ge!!?
 

mu is mu

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However being too independent / self-reliant leads to being selfish and stinginess i found as every action (therefore every expense) first has to be analyzed and categorized as logic / illogic before being performed...

What/whose definitions or standards are you using when you refer to "too independent," "selfishness," "stinginess," "tight with money," "logic," and "illogic?" These concepts seem very relative to me, as they almost completely depend on things like goals, values, perspectives, etc., which are simply defined and constructed by various groups of people and individuals as part of social reality.

Now, I'm not at all desiring for this thread to morph into a hairsplitting, 50-page long, philosophical, sociological, epistemological, linguistic, metaphysical debate, but can you elaborate on what your definitions are?

EDIT:

I don't think we INTP's really live in the present. We seem to just shift between past and future.

Yes.
 

Mr Write

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Interesting insight. I have to think about that one.

More explicitly, I think we most consciously think about past and future. For present matters, we mostly bumble through them somewhat unconsciously with Fe and Ne; don't we? (I know I become a total fluffball). At least until Ti gets a chance to consider them, by which point they're already matters of the past. The huge Ti lag seems to keep us out of the present more than most types.

If we don't engage with Fe, then we're rather quiet, serious, and take a while to reply, waiting for Ti to process the new information. I need to analyze further as to when exactly I do this, as I seem to almost always automatically go into fluffball mode. I think it's when we're less overwhelmed with new information, like when we're with someone we're already comfortable with.

I wonder if other IxxP types have similar problems.

Edit: This is probably why we come off so seriously in the forums and email. Since we're not being dragged out of our Ti, we don't engage fluffball mode so much; we generally don't willingly let it come out when Ti's so strong, I think.
 

TimeAsylums

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On the types perception of time:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=16542

http://personalitycafe.com/nts-temperament-forum-intellects/126899-perception-time-aging.html <--- just the first post

http://psyphics.wordpress.com/2013/02/18/infj-vs-intp/
Perception of Time

INTPs and other xNPx types have a detached perception of time and tend to see the past-present-future as a continuum. They have a historical perspective and set their goals to accumulate memories and achievements that can be viewed from an autobiographical context.
INFJs and xNJx types have a future directed perception of time where the past and present are seen as contributing factors to a vision. They view time as a finite resource and strive to accomplish their goals to directly experience the success in the limited time they have.
Jungian Types and Perception of Time
Half of the resources break it into NP rather than NT which is interesting, I suppose you could see an argument for either, but I guess it would be based off of the dominant perceiving function of a person, not the judging.

I like the way the picture puts it anyway.

It's really fun to think about when with co-workers or with friends, how perhaps each of you are experiencing a different moment (well, obviously you are because of your positions and propensity for taking in information S/N F/T etc).

In a car with friends:
maybe (hopefully) the driver is in the moment focusing on the road directly in front of him in the moment, ready to react.
in shotgun is you maybe an INTP focusing on the horizon, you're still "in the moment," but your true focus is rather dispersed over behind you, in the now, and on the horizon.
in the backseat maybe a person who focuses on the rearview and seeing each past moment as it goes from the present into the past.

Please excuse my shitty analogy, maybe when I have studied the types more I can put that into "context." But any contributions would be greatly appreeciated.
 

mu is mu

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More explicitly, I think we most consciously think about past and future. For present matters, we mostly bumble through them somewhat unconsciously with Fe and Ne; don't we? (I know I become a total fluffball). At least until Ti gets a chance to consider them, by which point they're already matters of the past. The huge Ti lag seems to keep us out of the present more than most types.

Hm, now this is an interesting and complex matter. For the most part it does seem that my psyche/person/whatever doesn't exist or think in real-time and there is a noticeable lag between when an experience occurs and when I obtain a deeper, satisfactory understanding of that experience. Sometimes this lag may be as small as a second while sometimes the analysis can last for much longer than that. This same type of delay also oftentimes applies to my decision-making processes.

As you say, this Ti lag seems to be most pronounced when we perceive new information, as routine or ordinary events are likely already understood and thus we have no need to analyze them; likewise, in these types of situations decisions tend to be reached simply and quickly.

The post by TimeAsylums also makes some good points about this.
 

Jennywocky

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So you're an ISXP?

I guess that was a joke? ("Incoming jokes! Quick, ducks!!")

I wish that we could be secure enough in ourselves to just say "I love you" without having to 'demonstrate' our love by alienating resources from ourselves. Whenever it happens, I can almost see the social network of dominance hierarchies and breeding pairs; the overload of stomach-turning information makes my head swim.

Who says it's about "security"? I think this is a notable blind spot here. We complain about how other types don't 'get' us, yet it's clear that we really don't 'get' them either.

P.S. Yay! You're back! I haven't seen you here in a while. :)

Tired, not much energy, and lots to do IRL. It's more of the timing that determines whether I make an appearance -- interest, energy, and time resources have to coincide.
 

TimeAsylums

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We complain about how other types don't 'get' us, yet it's clear that we really don't 'get' them either.

I like to think we (I) do by reasoning out how or why they act (after reading and understanding much of the functions, or if you just simply accept them), and seeing/accepting it as they are, but still preferring our own methods.
 

Jennywocky

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I like to think we (I) do by reasoning out how or why they act (after reading and understanding much of the functions, or if you just simply accept them), and seeing/accepting it as they are, but still preferring our own methods.

That's not really what I'm describing. People can prefer their own methods without judging another method as less mature, and expecting that when other people become more mature or "smarter," they will adopt our methods.

I mean, I prefer my method -- it's more comfortable for me -- but it doesn't mean I see the other methods as necessarily wrong or some sign of psychological weakness.
 

TimeAsylums

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oh, I agree with you, I suppose I misunderstood the intentions in the post then :D
 
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