INTPs and Feelings...Oh Boy...

[Je Pense]

Ok, so before y'all freak out about the title of this, let me explain. I would like to know why it is we INTPs seem to care more sometimes about not making things socially awkward for others than some F's do (especially SF's) (also, I know I am a T, no I am not an INFP). All our friends joke about how I have no feelings, and yet I find it ironic that F's sometimes seem to care less about how they make people feel than T's do (does their F mean they are just more emotional, not necessarily that they take into consideration other's feelings more?). I have noticed this for quite awhile and I'm wondering if any other INTP has noticed this...I'm guessing it must be a weird INTP thing. Also, social awkwardness is incredibly stressful, and I try to avoid it at all costs (developing a little E has helped), and often feel this responsibility to save people from their own awkwardness. At the same time though I'm totally antisocial, shut-up, leave me alone, etc. Any thoughts?

 

[Meer]

(does their F mean they are just more emotional, not necessarily that they take into consideration other's feelings more?)

'Feeling' isn't necessarily just emotional, but also value shiznit. What you're wondering about seems to be Fi vs Fe. Fe is defo more concerned with others. I would imagine that INTPs maybe try to look out for other people's feelings more than their own, if you know what I mean.

I just moved into a new house with a bunch of new roommates. Last night they had a little party with people they know and stuff. There was this girl there that was awkward and people were ripping into her pretty bad. I felt sorry for her, especially since I'm just as awkward, but better at hiding it or something.

I guess I think that INTPs are often familiar with being socially unksilled 'n stuff and can erk out a bit of empathy sometimes.

 

[Je Pense]

'Feeling' isn't necessarily just emotional, but also value shiznit. What you're wondering about seems to be Fi vs Fe. Fe is defo more concerned with others. I would imagine that INTPs maybe try to look out for other people's feelings more than their own, if you know what I mean.

I just moved into a new house with a bunch of new roommates. Last night they had a little party with people they know and stuff. There was this girl there that was awkward and people were ripping into her pretty bad. I felt sorry for her, especially since I'm just as awkward, but better at hiding it or something.

I totally agree with the looking out for others feelings more than my own....I don't really do any introspection on my own feelings, either I'm pissed off or I'm enjoying myself, or I'm having some nostalgic moment. Its kinda black and white.

Also, this is the 'social responsibility' thing I was trying to explain. I would have been totally pissed at the people making fun of her. Maybe this comes from our deep rooted hate for injustice rather than some repressed F-ness?

 

[Roran]

Maybe this comes from our deep rooted hate for injustice rather than some repressed F-ness?

That, my friend, is what is called a paradox.

But in regards to your original post, maybe it's because we're more conscious of things that would be awkward for us, and the rule of not being a dick (aka the golden rule) would have it that you try to help other people avoid such situations in the hopes that they might return the favor.

 

[NO_ARM_NINJA]

Hatred of injustice itself is a feeling.....
although we do HAVE a feeling function it is inferior, and often expresses itself in bursts an fits, but the hatred of injustice is the more likely culprit

 

[Je Pense]

Hatred of injustice itself is a feeling.....
although we do HAVE a feeling function it is inferior, and often expresses itself in bursts an fits, but the hatred of injustice is the more likely culprit

To make it more comfortable for us INTPs, can we just call it a moral (not the hate, the hating of injustice)?

 

[NO_ARM_NINJA]

To make it more comfortable for us INTPs, can we just call it a moral (not the hate, the hating of injustice)?

I suppose we can, but aside from that, my statement still stands

 

[Jelly Rev]

I have the same problem. I will spend large amounts of my time to make others comfortable.
I cannot stand to have the thought of other people being bored if it is in someway my fault(I invited them, Host, etc).
It's because I feel responsible that they are there and are feeling that.
It leads to guilt, lots of guilt, the only negative emotion I experience on a general basis.
I will also stand up for ppl who are getting ripped once they stop taking it as a joke and breakdown.

 

[ElvenVeil]

The least developed 'Fe' function is likely the answer to your question. Fe people will tend care 'a lot' about what others think of them, and for INTPs, this can for instance be seen in the 'social cameleon', which you may have seen mentioned, when reading about INTPs. INTPs do care, though it is rare that this care is allowed to come forth.

Also, I would imagine that such thing as focusing how others feel, as an F person, is something that may come more natural to them, I.E they don't focus on it, because it is so natural: "ofc they care what other people feel".

back to function talk. Imagine when Ti - Fe works together. You want to others to think well of you and vise versa, but you have so little feel for this situation, due to the least developed function, so you process the data you recieve with Ti.
Now with Ti dominant, this can hardly result in anything but constant thought-loops, where you question your conclusions on how the person feel/thinks, and you will likely reach the result 'well I can't know what said person thinks/feels'

Some things can be processed with Si however..One such thing would be, if you recieve a smile, a hug, a kiss etc. These things, you will know as positive rituals, and you can therefore conclude on these actions much more easily.

personal note: I have often thought too, that many other people seem so cold, which always have puzzled me. Again a likely explanation to this observation is rather me having no feel for such tells rather than them being bastards. : p
I hope I answered your question somewhat

 

[Je Pense]

I have the same problem. I will spend large amounts of my time to make others comfortable.
I cannot stand to have the thought of other people being bored if it is in someway my fault(I invited them, Host, etc).
It's because I feel responsible that they are there and are feeling that.
It leads to guilt, lots of guilt, the only negative emotion I experience on a general basis.
I will also stand up for ppl who are getting ripped once they stop taking it as a joke and breakdown.

People being bored or irritated in some way because of me is the worst! I also hate feeling like a burden....

 

[Je Pense]

The least developed 'Fe' function is likely the answer to your question. Fe people will tend care 'a lot' about what others think of them, and for INTPs, this can for instance be seen in the 'social cameleon', which you may have seen mentioned, when reading about INTPs. INTPs do care, though it is rare that this care is allowed to come forth.

Also, I would imagine that such thing as focusing how others feel, as an F person, is something that may come more natural to them, I.E they don't focus on it, because it is so natural: "ofc they care what other people feel".

back to function talk. Imagine when Ti - Fe works together. You want to others to think well of you and vise versa, but you have so little feel for this situation, due to the least developed function, so you process the data you recieve with Ti.
Now with Ti dominant, this can hardly result in anything but constant thought-loops, where you question your conclusions on how the person feel/thinks, and you will likely reach the result 'well I can't know what said person thinks/feels'

Some things can be processed with Si however..One such thing would be, if you recieve a smile, a hug, a kiss etc. These things, you will know as positive rituals, and you can therefore conclude on these actions much more easily.

personal note: I have often thought too, that many other people seem so cold, which always have puzzled me. Again a likely explanation to this observation is rather me having no feel for such tells rather than them being bastards. : p
I hope I answered your question somewhat

Thanks for the info. I find for me, my chameleon comes out in a way that I feel necessary to exercise for the people around me, in hopes of alleviating their own awkwardness and inability to maintain an atmosphere that is comfortable for everyone, as opposed to using 'the chameleon' because I care what others think of me. Does that make any sense? Good points you made, thanks.

 

[Auburn]

+1 - ElvenVeil

There's much more to be said on why F types are often colder than IxTPs.
Having awareness is always a double-edged sword, but especially so with character awareness.

I find many F types become bitter against the humanity they initially wish(ed) to support, when their keen examination of it leads to disillusion and loss of faith for it. If the world they perceive is hostile toward them, an F type might develop a very bitter "fuck the world" attitude and callous themselves against it -- becoming cold.

Inversely, T types start out with less awareness of human inner/outer dynamics, which makes it easier to give the benefit of doubt to others both because the T type cannot perceive malice of character unless blatant, and because they may feel self-conscious of their own lack of skill in that field.

That, and T types have a thicker skin against hostility, and thus the threshold for being offended is higher - meaning becoming bitter is much harder.

I find the most noble as well as the most wicked humans to often be F types. The range/extremes of manifestation are greater for them, while T types remain somewhat near the middle point. But that's just from my experience...


In summary:

The bigger your heart is, the warmer or colder it can be. The mind is neither warm or cold, it is dispassionate.

To the warmhearted a dispassionate mind seems cold because it is not warm, but a dispassionate mind knows not the bitter chill of a cold heart.



​

 

[Melkor]

There's much more to be said on why F types are often colder than IxTPs.
Having awareness is always a double-edged sword, but especially so with character awareness.

I find many F types become bitter against the humanity they initially wish(ed) to support, when their keen examination of it leads to disillusion and loss of faith for it. If the world they perceive is hostile toward them, an F type might develop a very bitter "fuck the world" attitude and callous themselves against it -- becoming cold.

Wha? Sorry I was sleeping and I heard you say Lor...

I find the most noble as well as the most wicked humans to often be F types.

Oh wait, are we actually talking about you?

In summary:

The bigger your heart is, the warmer or colder it can be. The mind is neither warm or cold, it is dispassionate.

To the warmhearted a dispassionate mind seems cold because it is not warm, but a dispassionate mind knows not the bitter chill of a cold heart.​

​

Whassat, INFP code of honour?:3
​

 

[thelithiumcat]

+1 - ElvenVeil

Spoiler

There's much more to be said on why F types are often colder than IxTPs.
Having awareness is always a double-edged sword, but especially so with character awareness.

I find many F types become bitter against the humanity they initially wish(ed) to support, when their keen examination of it leads to disillusion and loss of faith for it. If the world they perceive is hostile toward them, an F type might develop a very bitter "fuck the world" attitude and callous themselves against it -- becoming cold.

Inversely, T types start out with less awareness of human inner/outer dynamics, which makes it easier to give the benefit of doubt to others both because the T type cannot perceive malice of character unless blatant, and because they may feel self-conscious of their own lack of skill in that field.

That, and T types have a thicker skin against hostility, and thus the threshold for being offended is higher - meaning becoming bitter is much harder.

I find the most noble as well as the most wicked humans to often be F types. The range/extremes of manifestation are greater for them, while T types remain somewhat near the middle point. But that's just from my experience...

Indeed. I think our
Ti allows us to distance ourselves emotionally from the situation.

F types seem to experience feelings similarly to how we experience Ti. By this I mean it is much closer to the essence of who they are than the opposing judging function. For us, it takes absolutely nothing to begin thinking. For them I imagine it is similar with regards for feeling. From observation it seems that they must have feelings and process things through them, something we do with Ti. I find that using Ti is not really something I can control so I imagine the feeling function is similar for them.

On another point, I too hate injustice but I think my feel for it isn't very good. I don't know how to judge whether my perception is correct. Is what I see really injustice?

 

[Zionoxis]

For me, I have an almost religious obsession with how I think others may view me in a specific situation and I try to avoid making myself look like an idiot to those around me at all cost. I am not sure if that is Ne or Fe. At the same time, I keep my mouth shut in many occasions and this can sometime cause me to not take advantage of opportunities. As for my Ti, it allows me to distance myself from most situations. Those following the earlier criteria tend to get me a bit.

An example is that if someone makes a comment on what I am wearing looks bad, I try my best not to wear it again. Being self conscious for an INTP is normal, no? I know we like to pretend to dress badly and not care...but I care. Maybe my extroversion is just more highly developed than I would prefer.

 

[Jelly Rev]

People being bored or irritated in some way because of me is the worst! I also hate feeling like a burden....

o yes, or inviting oneself to come is very very difficult even if they want u to come but just forgot to ask you.


I can't imagine jumping into feeling for making decisions/operating in world. It wouldn't make sense.

 

[NO_ARM_NINJA]

"To the warmhearted a dispassionate mind seems cold because it is not warm, but a dispassionate mind knows not the bitter chill of a cold heart."

thats so beautiful....

 

[Je Pense]

For me, I have an almost religious obsession with how I think others may view me in a specific situation and I try to avoid making myself look like an idiot to those around me at all cost. I am not sure if that is Ne or Fe. At the same time, I keep my mouth shut in many occasions and this can sometime cause me to not take advantage of opportunities. As for my Ti, it allows me to distance myself from most situations. Those following the earlier criteria tend to get me a bit.

An example is that if someone makes a comment on what I am wearing looks bad, I try my best not to wear it again. Being self conscious for an INTP is normal, no? I know we like to pretend to dress badly and not care...but I care. Maybe my extroversion is just more highly developed than I would prefer.

No, I'm all on board there. I think part of why we might care so much about how we appear, at least for me, is due to the fact that we don't want any attention drawn to ourselves...and that can make us really self conscious sometimes.

 

[Je Pense]

On another point, I too hate injustice but I think my feel for it isn't very good. I don't know how to judge whether my perception is correct. Is what I see really injustice?

Why do you think this is? Do you think its a feeling or a moral to hate injustice? I get this near-righteous rage over injustice, but I'm not focusing on how it makes me feel, I just get pissed because its a moral violation....

 

[Je Pense]

"To the warmhearted a dispassionate mind seems cold because it is not warm, but a dispassionate mind knows not the bitter chill of a cold heart."

I know some NF's who get super disillusioned when feely stuff doesn't work out (they expected and event or person would make them feel a certain way and when it doesn't work out, they get depressed). I think T's just don't expect a lot of fulfillment from their own feelings so when things do go nicely, we, as INTP's, are generally pleasantly surprised. I think our 'letdown' comes when our own intelligence feels less than it should be or when we work ourselves up to finally share something we've been analyzing for 12 years and then the person we tell either shuts us down or doesn't listen.

 

[xbox]

YOU HURTED MY FEELINGS

 

[Je Pense]

YOU HURTED MY FEELINGS

"Oh," *cough* "ahem, I'm so sorry I made you FEEL that way, do you wanna talk about it?'"

 

[HDINTP]

What i think i know about myself is that my Fe is really but really bad.

 

[thelithiumcat]

Why do you think this is? Do you think its a feeling or a moral to hate injustice? I get this near-righteous rage over injustice, but I'm not focusing on how it makes me feel, I just get pissed because its a moral violation....

I think I can't tell just because I find it difficult to read situations. I know what I think by my standards, but I doubt my standards are the same as the ones they are going by and therefore I can't tell whether my reaction is correct.

I think perhaps a moral. I'd say the feeling is an expression of one's opinion guided by the moral. Then one has to decide whether one should show the feeling or not and, if so, how. Numerous times something has happened to me (which could be anything, not just the morality thing) and I pause for a while because I have no idea which face to make.

 

[Je Pense]

I think perhaps a moral. I'd say the feeling is an expression of one's opinion guided by the moral. Then one has to decide whether one should show the feeling or not and, if so, how.

<<This is beautiful, yes, beautiful. Sums it up perfectly.

Maybe this momentary uncertainty comes from the INTP ability to argue any side, then confusing ourselves, what do we really believe? Maybe I've become too narcissistic by throwing out relativity when analyzing certain situations. In my mind, it becomes maybe too black and white.

I know what I think by my standards, but I doubt my standards are the same as the ones they are going by and therefore I can't tell whether my reaction is correct.

Do you have an example?

 

[thelithiumcat]

This is beautiful, yes, beautiful. Sums it up perfectly.

Thanks very much.

Maybe this momentary uncertainty comes from the INTP ability to argue any side, then confusing ourselves, what do we really believe? Maybe I've become too narcissistic by throwing out relativity when analyzing certain situations. In my mind, it becomes maybe too black and white.

Exactly! I do this all the time. It's why I have such a big problem with important decisions - I'm more prone to consider all the options and then I can't choose. With regards to confusion, a good example is spelling: I am getting increasingly worse at remembering the spelling of words because I'll think of other possibilities and forget the correct one.

I'm not sure whether it's relative or black and white in my mind... It probably changes. I do try to do everything in my mind though. It probably isn't a good idea.

Do you have an example?

Um.... well, someone might say a fairly controversial or unusual view and I will have to figure out where it is in my standards, but then I also have to try and discern the group's reaction in order to determine their morals and standards as a group, therefore whether it was okay for the person to say it and then how I should react - which I can't usually decide because I am not socially aware enough to be sure of the group things without being told. I'm not sure whether that's a good example but I'm pretty unclear on it.

Another example might be when one person insults another... well, by my standards it's an insult but I can't figure out whether it's fine by them or whether by the usual rules of more normal social groups that's perfectly acceptable to say.