INTP's and computer science

[PaulMaster]

I am going back to school. My company has a tuition reimbursement program and I'm going to take advantage. I've heard that INTP's and computer science go together like peanut butter and jelly.

So, to any computer scientist INTP's out there (or anyone in the know), why is computer science such a compatible field of study?

For a little background - I've already started my degree. Philosophy. Its been 12 years or so. I would be more than happy to go the philosophy route as I know for certain I find the subject matter agreeable. However, I know there are a ton of areas of interest that involve computers. And computer science seems a little more useful when trying to make money. I dont think I should flip flop back and forth because my company is paying for it. So my worry is that I get into a field such as computer science and find that it is infinitely useful for making money, but has zero use in keeping my interest, which would make it a total waste (if I had a "free pass to be president of the US" card I'd likely sell it).

So, to any computer scientist INTP's out there (or anyone in the know), why is computer science such a compatible field of study?

 

[Happy]

There are actually a lot of threads on this. Like, heaps. Perhaps it would be worth searching the forums for similar discussions. A particular user, Architect, has been instrumental in answering many similar questions in the past.

I don't intend to kill the thread, so anyone with answers, please carry on as usual.

 

[PaulMaster]

I didnt search, but I will.

 

[Black Rose]

Why not combine the two.

You can get a degree in computer science and study philosophy by yourself. Maybe when you are out of things to do on week ends. Math is important to both of them. Numbers were in origin from mystery schools. You can map geometry to esoteric meanings with computer code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz#Computation

Spoiler

Computation[edit]
Leibniz may have been the first computer scientist and information theorist.[86] Early in life, he documented the binary numeral system (base 2), then revisited that system throughout his career.[87] He anticipated Lagrangian interpolation and algorithmic information theory. His calculus ratiocinator anticipated aspects of the universal Turing machine. In 1934, Norbert Wiener claimed to have found in Leibniz's writings a mention of the concept of feedback, central to Wiener's later cybernetic theory.

In 1671, Leibniz began to invent a machine that could execute all four arithmetical operations, gradually improving it over a number of years. This "Stepped Reckoner" attracted fair attention and was the basis of his election to the Royal Society in 1673. A number of such machines were made during his years in Hanover, by a craftsman working under Leibniz's supervision. It was not an unambiguous success because it did not fully mechanize the operation of carrying. Couturat reported finding an unpublished note by Leibniz, dated 1674, describing a machine capable of performing some algebraic operations.[88] Leibniz also devised a (now reproduced) cipher machine, recovered by Nicholas Rescher in 2010.[89] In 1693, Leibniz released to the public a design of a machine which could, in theory, integrate differential equations.

Leibniz was groping towards hardware and software concepts worked out much later by Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace. In 1679, while mulling over his binary arithmetic, Leibniz imagined a machine in which binary numbers were represented by marbles, governed by a rudimentary sort of punched cards.[90] Modern electronic digital computers replace Leibniz's marbles moving by gravity with shift registers, voltage gradients, and pulses of electrons, but otherwise they run roughly as Leibniz envisioned in 1679.

 

[PaulMaster]

Why not combine the two.

You can get a degree in computer science and study philosophy by yourself. Maybe when you are out of things to do on week ends. Math is important to both of them. Numbers were in origin from mystery schools. You can map geometry to esoteric meanings with computer code.

I'll continue to study all sorts of things. What I'm really wondering is why computer science is such a good fit. From my outside perspective, it seems tedious. It doesnt seem to offer the abstract, conceptualized subject matter that, say, philosophy or formal logic offer. I believe it would be a math heavy path, which would be great. But a mathematics degree isnt really an option. I dont want to get stuck in something that isnt a good fit for who I am.

 

[Happy]

The general consensus in the past has been that it offers a playground of sorts for problem solving, without much in terms of limitations and constraints. This is very appealing to the INTP.

I personally prefer many limitations and constraints, because I believe it fosters true creativity. But, to each his own.

 

[Inquisitor]

I am going back to school. My company has a tuition reimbursement program and I'm going to take advantage. I've heard that INTP's and computer science go together like peanut butter and jelly.

So, to any computer scientist INTP's out there (or anyone in the know), why is computer science such a compatible field of study?

For a little background - I've already started my degree. Philosophy. Its been 12 years or so. I would be more than happy to go the philosophy route as I know for certain I find the subject matter agreeable. However, I know there are a ton of areas of interest that involve computers. And computer science seems a little more useful when trying to make money. I dont think I should flip flop back and forth because my company is paying for it. So my worry is that I get into a field such as computer science and find that it is infinitely useful for making money, but has zero use in keeping my interest, which would make it a total waste (if I had a "free pass to be president of the US" card I'd likely sell it).

So, to any computer scientist INTP's out there (or anyone in the know), why is computer science such a compatible field of study?

I'm in my early 30s and am back in university for a second BS in comp sci. First BA was in econ. I've only been in school for 3 weeks, but before that was also taking CS classes at Harvard Extension and online for the past 6-8 months. I definitely wouldn't say I love what I'm doing, but at the same time, I also definitely wouldn't say I hate my life. I'm good at school, logical, analytical. Those are basically the kind of attributes you need to do well in CS. I'd venture most INTPs are the same. The only gripe I have is that I have always defined myself as being more on the IA side of the RIASEC Holland code, and CS is more on the R side. I really don't like sitting in lecture and watching slide after slide of computer code, but when I actually sit down and have to do my homework, I don't hate it. Currently trying to figure out if there exists an occupation in the social sciences/humanities for me, perhaps econ. That would engage more of the investigative side of my mind I think and also feed my inferior Fe by directly relating what I do to humanity as a whole.

It is a conundrum no doubt...

 

[PaulMaster]

It is a conundrum no doubt...

Over night, I decided against CS. I'm going to stick with philosophy and formal logic. CS would be for money. Philosophy would be for love.

John Lennon's words tend to hold true for me: All you need is love.

The Journey is the destination. And all that.

 

[Happy]

Over night, I decided against CS.

Such an INTP thing to do haha

I studied Architecture. One day, at the end of my bachelors degree, I decided I wanted to be a surgeon instead. I went in to change my course accordingly. When I was there, I had an impulse decision to get a construction management degree instead. So I did that and finished it. Then I decided I wanted to be an architect again, so I enrolled for a masters degree. Then when I started that, I decided I didn't want to study anymore, so I crammed a 2 year masters degree into one year.

In the end, the indecision was worth it. Plus, it's kind of cool having 3 degrees hanging on the wall.

I hope you have a similar experience.

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of company do you work for that will just pay for either a philosophy or CS degree? This concept seems foreign to me.

 

[RaBind]

Over night, I decided against CS. I'm going to stick with philosophy and formal logic. CS would be for money. Philosophy would be for love.

I chose the exact opposite. I guess we'll have to see who chose the "right" answer then huh?

I had no back ground in programming when I started, in my second year now I'm making some progress but still feel like the subject is largely alien to me.

Actual programming is quite satisfying as time flies when tinkering with code. I've found that programming is a nice solid bone to chew on for my brain that's otherwise constantly distracted. I'm doing a graphics module this semester and being able to visually see the results of hours of trail and error is gratifying.

You don't need to have particularly advanced Maths skills for most modules. Many of them are similarly complex though.

I love philosophy, well at least my informal exploration of the subject anyway, but I didn't seriously consider it as something I'd study in university. Psychology was another option that I was seriously considering.

John Lennon's words tend to hold true for me: All you need is love.

The Journey is the destination. And all that.

I'd disagree with this but then again you probably have something to fall back on, unlike a lot of students who are taking on a hefty loan, which will probably last till they are middle-age.

You don't seem too dissatisfied with your current job, and I probably would be very tempted to make the exact same decision if I were in your shoes.

 

[PaulMaster]

I work for a logistics company - we manage other companies supply chains. My job is tracking and handling shipments that are extra sensitive for any number of reasons - could be late, expensive, whatever.

Its a tuition reimbursement program. As far as I understand it, anyone employed here (the entire company, I work at HQ but we have people all over N America) for over 6 months is eligible. The "catch", I suppose, is that the degree has to be relevant to advancement. Something like chemistry, for example, would not get approved. There are degrees for, like, supply chain management, logistical science, business, and the like that are specifically designed for people in my field. But I'm not even close to interested in going to school for that kind of thing. When I brought up philosophy to the HR lady who handles this program, she said philosophy had never come up. It wasnt any trouble at all to sell the idea to her and she said "Ok, bring me your schedule when you get it". The way my boss puts it, the company values having a degree more than any specific degree. But when they're paying for it, they want it to be more related than not.

So while I was looking at classes and whatnot, CS made its way into my thoughts. I played with the idea for a little bit and finally decided last night to stick with my original path.

Eventually, I'd like to use this degree and do what my mom did - become a college professor. Short of that, this is a good company, I could stay here.

I could also open a jiu jitsu school, but thats a whole other thing...

 

[Happy]

I work for a logistics company - we manage other companies supply chains. My job is tracking and handling shipments that are extra sensitive for any number of reasons - could be late, expensive, whatever.

Its a tuition reimbursement program. As far as I understand it, anyone employed here (the entire company, I work at HQ but we have people all over N America) for over 6 months is eligible. The "catch", I suppose, is that the degree has to be relevant to advancement. Something like chemistry, for example, would not get approved. There are degrees for, like, supply chain management, logistical science, business, and the like that are specifically designed for people in my field. But I'm not even close to interested in going to school for that kind of thing. When I brought up philosophy to the HR lady who handles this program, she said philosophy had never come up. It wasnt any trouble at all to sell the idea to her and she said "Ok, bring me your schedule when you get it". The way my boss puts it, the company values having a degree more than any specific degree. But when they're paying for it, they want it to be more related than not.

So while I was looking at classes and whatnot, CS made its way into my thoughts. I played with the idea for a little bit and finally decided last night to stick with my original path.

Eventually, I'd like to use this degree and do what my mom did - become a college professor. Short of that, this is a good company, I could stay here.

I could also open a jiu jitsu school, but thats a whole other thing...

Interesting. How did you manage to sell the idea of philosophy?

Opening a jiu jitsu school is an interesting idea. The biggest pro would be that you could do it in your free time. The biggest con would be that you need to have some significant accomplishments for people to actually be interested. Also, social skills go a long way in running martial arts schools. I recently left one because the instructor wasn't very socially adept.

 

[PaulMaster]

Interesting. How did you manage to sell the idea of philosophy?

Opening a jiu jitsu school is an interesting idea. The biggest pro would be that you could do it in your free time. The biggest con would be that you need to have some significant accomplishments for people to actually be interested. Also, social skills go a long way in running martial arts schools. I recently left one because the instructor wasn't very socially adept.

I dont recall exactly, but something along the lines of expertise in formal logic, finding patterns and inconsistencies, scrutiny of texts/documents, etc...stuff like that.

I'm not so sure I would NEED significant accomplishments. The school I train at, our instructor pretty much never competed. Although, he did train (and get his black belt) at the original Gracie Academy in Torrence back in the day. So thats pretty sweet.

Honestly, I'd rather not make this my profession. As it is, its my escape from everything (its way more than just an escape), I dont want to ruin it.

What did you train?

 

[Inquisitor]

Just curious but have you ever actually taught anything before? I mean don't get me wrong, teaching philosophy doesn't sound bad, but after 4 years of English teaching, I was both stressed and bored at the same time, and I was only teaching 3 hours a day. I think learning philosophy on the company's dime like this is a mistake. There's a very low probability of actually getting a job as a college professor in this area that will pay even close to a middle class salary. I just don't see the point even if you do love it.

CS OTOH makes you eminently hireable, especially if you already have experience with logistics. If you're an expert at both, I would think you'd never have to worry about finding a job for the rest of your life, and your pay package would also likely be higher than anyone with experience in only one of those. A quick google search reveals there are loads of companies making logistics software, and the problems they're working on look really interesting...If drones start to become more popular as delivery vehicles for example, you would be a shoe-in I would think. Teaching philosophy to undergrads who are just in the class to fulfill their GenEd requirements looks positively boring in comparison. Take my word for it: There's nothing worse than teaching unmotivated students.

...But I recognize the siren call of the inferior function is extremely powerful and alluring. I love philosophy too, especially when it includes theology...I still get pangs when I think of becoming a doctor for example, but I've learned now that simply using my dominant function (Ti) brings meaning and satisfaction into my life in a way that helping humans does not.

 

[PaulMaster]

Just curious but have you ever actually taught anything before? I mean don't get me wrong, teaching philosophy doesn't sound bad, but after 4 years of English teaching, I was both stressed and bored at the same time, and I was only teaching 3 hours a day. I think learning philosophy on the company's dime like this is a mistake. There's a very low probability of actually getting a job as a college professor in this area that will pay even close to a middle class salary. I just don't see the point even if you do love it.

CS OTOH makes you eminently hireable, especially if you already have experience with logistics. If you're an expert at both, I would think you'd never have to worry about finding a job for the rest of your life, and your pay package would also likely be higher than anyone with experience in only one of those. A quick google search reveals there are loads of companies making logistics software, and the problems they're working on look really interesting...If drones start to become more popular as delivery vehicles for example, you would be a shoe-in I would think. Teaching philosophy to undergrads who are just in the class to fulfill their GenEd requirements looks positively boring in comparison. Take my word for it: There's nothing worse than teaching unmotivated students.

...But I recognize the siren call of the inferior function is extremely powerful and alluring. I love philosophy too, especially when it includes theology...I still get pangs when I think of becoming a doctor for example, but I've learned now that simply using my dominant function (Ti) brings meaning and satisfaction into my life in a way that helping humans does not.

Completely fair and reasonable. I've never taught in a classroom setting, but I was a personal trainer for a number of years, including group training. I brought a ton of exercise science knowledge to that gig and learned a ton about teaching/learning styles along the way. I expect I merely scratched the surface, though I also expect what I gained to be useful and widely applicable basics/fundamentals.

As far as teaching university students is concerned, I would likely not choose to teach philosophy. Funny you should mention teaching English, because that is the route I would look at initially. The way I understand it, a bachelors in philosophy plus a masters in English ought to be enough. I like the idea of English because I would plan to get a section or two of higher level writing and really pay the bills by grinding out the freshman English/writing sections. This is what my mother does.

Should this prove to be impossible or impractical (or whatever), I can stay at my current company and climb the ranks - the degree and investment "inward" is valued here.

My thinking towards CS is pretty much exactly as you put it. Marketability. Skills with computers are immensely marketable and profitable in today's world. No question about it. In fact, I would absolutely LOVE to work with some advanced technologies at the forefront of human thought. Computerized systems in aviation/aerospace (I have experience in aviation - flight planning, live ops problem solving, pretty cool stuff) such as navigation or guidance or whatever...anything in that direction is pretty bad ass!

One of the major reasons I am sticking with the philosophy path is that I'm already so invested. CS would be a restart. I'd start at the very beginning. Obviously, its still doable. I know that. But, of all of my countless interests, I'm already a ways down the path I'm currently on. And I love this path too. The more I think about this, the more obvious the answer is to me.

 

[RaBind]

brings meaning and satisfaction into my life in a way that helping humans does not.

Lol yeah helping humans is overrated, well at least when it's direct help it's overrated. Even when I was considering studying psychology, in order to possibly become a psychiatrist, it was in the hopes that I would get to poke at and study unusual people/cases.

 

[Happy]

I dont recall exactly, but something along the lines of expertise in formal logic, finding patterns and inconsistencies, scrutiny of texts/documents, etc...stuff like that.

I'm not so sure I would NEED significant accomplishments. The school I train at, our instructor pretty much never competed. Although, he did train (and get his black belt) at the original Gracie Academy in Torrence back in the day. So thats pretty sweet.

Honestly, I'd rather not make this my profession. As it is, its my escape from everything (its way more than just an escape), I dont want to ruin it.

What did you train?

Yeah, I don't think competition in particular is that important, more that the instructor has broad experience in what he or she teaches, and has gone beyond just attending classes.

To answer your question, I've done TKD, BJJ, MMA and Muay Thai.

In TKD, I was trained by world champions. In BJJ, I was trained by one of the very first black belts, which was kinda cool. In Muay Thai, I was also trained by a champion. My point is, these dudes all had broad experience and were very good teachers. I've tried other schools and dropped out because the teachers didn't have enough broad experience to really be teaching, or just couldn't teach, or were just weirdos.

 

[PaulMaster]

I've done TKD, BJJ, MMA and Muay Thai.

That's awesome.

I trained Muay Thai for a while, back in the day. I even fought, once. Its a little rough for me nowadays. Well, roughness isnt really it, bjj can be rough. Its the head shots. I dont like the reality or the idea of being hit in the head that often.

 

[Architect]

For all their analysis INTP's are bad at determining their own path. For careers they (we) fail to distinguish a good career and a good job.

There are thousands of careers INTP's would like - given the right job in that career. For example, being a prison guard where all you do is sit around on the computer doing whatever you want all day, and you get paid six figures for it. Most INTP's would probably like that. But the guard that has to stand around staring at inmates all day would probably hate it.

Assuming for a moment a good job, then STEM careers rate top for INTPs, but that's not enough. You have to find a job in that career that works for you. So putting it on a spectrum, a computer related career, in the right job is probably the best combination, or most likely for satisfaction. Obviously it's very possible to have a computer related career with a bad job where you end up hating it.

 

[Inquisitor]

Completely fair and reasonable. I've never taught in a classroom setting, but I was a personal trainer for a number of years, including group training. I brought a ton of exercise science knowledge to that gig and learned a ton about teaching/learning styles along the way. I expect I merely scratched the surface, though I also expect what I gained to be useful and widely applicable basics/fundamentals.

As far as teaching university students is concerned, I would likely not choose to teach philosophy. Funny you should mention teaching English, because that is the route I would look at initially. The way I understand it, a bachelors in philosophy plus a masters in English ought to be enough. I like the idea of English because I would plan to get a section or two of higher level writing and really pay the bills by grinding out the freshman English/writing sections. This is what my mother does.

Should this prove to be impossible or impractical (or whatever), I can stay at my current company and climb the ranks - the degree and investment "inward" is valued here.

My thinking towards CS is pretty much exactly as you put it. Marketability. Skills with computers are immensely marketable and profitable in today's world. No question about it. In fact, I would absolutely LOVE to work with some advanced technologies at the forefront of human thought. Computerized systems in aviation/aerospace (I have experience in aviation - flight planning, live ops problem solving, pretty cool stuff) such as navigation or guidance or whatever...anything in that direction is pretty bad ass!

One of the major reasons I am sticking with the philosophy path is that I'm already so invested. CS would be a restart. I'd start at the very beginning. Obviously, its still doable. I know that. But, of all of my countless interests, I'm already a ways down the path I'm currently on. And I love this path too. The more I think about this, the more obvious the answer is to me.

Sorry for not responding sooner. Your rationale makes sense. I guess if your mother taught English you must know what you're getting into to some extent...I got tired of it.

You might want to try before you buy a master's, and for at least a few months, just to see what it's like. Anyway, good luck with your studies, I hope it works out.