INTPs and Astrology

[McBean]

I'm not big into astrology, but I have noticed similarities in the INTP personality and the gemini personality. Just wondering if anyone else has made connections b/w their types. While I do think astrology is mostly bogus (especially with predicting the future) - it is often surprisingly spot on when it comes to personality traits. Thoughts?

 

[SpaceYeti]

If you compliment people and give them advice that's applicable to anybody, of course what you're saying will sound good.

 

[Nezaros]

I'm a Scorpio, so no.

 

[Proletar]

Leo here.

 

[joal0503]

ancient astrology =/= modern astrology

i would say theres MORE credence to the ancients work, than today's modern interpretations.

 

[GodOfOrder]

I am also a leo, and I like my sign, but also think it insignificant.

Perhaps we could make a poll and collect data on the ratio of zodiac signs compared to the INTP type.

Though I suspect that there is absolutely no correlation.

 

[Hawkeye]

Basing someone's traits on stars that are billions of light years away seems rather silly to me. Some of those stars may not exist anymore.

The thing is, I could scramble the adjectives and descriptions used for the Zodiac signs and people will still relate.

You only see what you want to see.

 

[GodOfOrder]

Basing someone's traits on stars that are billions of light years away seems rather silly to me. Some of those stars may not exist anymore.

The thing is, I could scramble the adjectives and descriptions used for the Zodiac signs and people will still relate.

You only see what you want to see.

agreed

 

[Zero989]

Astrology today has a very bad rep. It's unfortunate.

Real astrology computes answers by factoring birthplace, year, time and a whole bunch of other nonsense.

 

[joal0503]

agreed

considering that the sun, literally gave this planet the energy it needed (and continues to need) to create life/existence as we know it. why does this possibility seem so silly?

besides, its not just signs and personality traits...that more of the westernized version. astrology at its core, is more complex and diverse than that. it extends to many areas of the globe, who all have their own perspectives.


all that being said, its just data and information that seems appealing. im not sayin i BELIEVE in astrology by any means.

 

[snafupants]

I am also a leo, and I like my sign, but also think it insignificant.

Perhaps we could make a poll and collect data on the ratio of zodiac signs compared to the INTP type.

Though I suspect that there is absolutely no correlation.

There was a poll like that, and no real correlation was found.

 

[Hawkeye]

considering that the sun, literally gave this planet the energy it needed (and continues to need) to create life/existence as we know it. why does this possibility seem so silly?

besides, its not just signs and personality traits...that more of the westernized version. astrology at its core, is more complex and diverse than that. it extends to many areas of the globe, who all have their own perspectives.


all that being said, its just data and information that seems appealing. im not sayin i BELIEVE in astrology by any means.

A lot of astrology is linked to personality world-wide though (such as the Chinese animal signs). The problem I have with this is it implies that people do not change.

I'm not the person I was 10 years ago. Nor will I likely be the person I am 10 years from now.

You don't see people applying astrology to other creatures on the planet. It only seems to relate to humans which is another reason I dislike it.

 

[SpaceYeti]

A lot of astrology is linked to personality world-wide though (such as the Chinese animal signs). The problem I have with this is it implies that people do not change.

I'm not the person I was 10 years ago. Nor will I likely be the person I am 10 years from now.

You don't see people applying astrology to other creatures on the planet. It only seems to relate to humans which is another reason I dislike it.

That's odd. I'm most certainly the same person I was ten years ago, or even twenty or twenty-five. I just know more now than I did back then, and am physically larger, plus I have all these legal rights and a car.

 

[pjoa09]

Leo here.

High-five!



No but really, I think there might be some correlation. Even being self-classified as an INTP I am different from other INTPs. Obviously we don't act and think the same. We aren't typical INTPs.

Maybe I am molding my image to suit the astrology but I think I can relate to the Leo/Goat combination.

I am reserved and awkward yet I like to boast and join the company of people.

I don't know, maybe I am just molding it.

 

[joal0503]

my sign...i use to be a pisces until the earth decided to rotate back around 2011 ( i think?)...

now im an aquarius.

which is like wtf astrology. wtf.

and on top of that, i dont think im even correct...

id have to locate my birth location, and the star alignment at that precise moment in time...god i need sleep.

 

[Montresor]

Cancer here. I recently had a typing session with my older cousin (also cancer), and he was so INTP it was crazy. The spider hands, subjective thought, the Ne flashes in his eyes, the propensity for Si, and can't forget the raw, untamed Fe. I've known him for 20+ years - it was an easy typing to do.

Funny because I sort of eased them (him and his fancy) into MBTI bit by bit, starting with her type (which she already knew from before), so by time I got to his the skepticism had worn off a little ... anyways they were pretty sure he was extraverted because when he is at work (electrical engineer) he becomes a little lonely when he isn't given the chance to cooperate with other people towards a common goal, plus he gains momentum (appears to) as he socializes with more and more people at a party. When asked to decide if he was a thinker or a doer, they both laughed and said well THAT is an easy answer.

There are (I think) 4 more cancers in my family (INTJ, ISTP, ESTJ, ESFP) all blood relatives to each other, to me, and to my cousin.

Whoops not trying to derail this thread.

Astrology? He also made the same connection (probably subtly alluding to the fact that our birthdays are 2 days (plus a whole number of years) apart). We never actually discussed it. Then they called me a fortune teller HAHA.

I think your birth sign has less to do with your personality type than it does with the time of year you were conceived. However, I have a bad track record with Libras and I've found them to be incredibly emotional.

I remember reading somewhere that INTPs are supposed to "like esoteric things" so it's okay to admit you're into astrology ...

 

[joal0503]

"spider hands"?

 

[joal0503]

see, now why hasnt something like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

been publicized more? fascinating...

The Antikythera mechanism is an ancient analog computer[1][2] designed to calculate astronomical positions.

The construction has been dated to the early 1st century BCE. Technological artifacts approaching its complexity and workmanship did not appear again until the 14th century AD, when mechanical astronomical clocks began to be built in Western Europe.[5] Professor Michael Edmunds of Cardiff University, who led a 2006 study of the mechanism, said: [6][7]

This device is just extraordinary, the only thing of its kind. The design is beautiful, the astronomy is exactly right. The way the mechanics are designed just makes your jaw drop. Whoever has done this has done it extremely carefully ... in terms of historic and scarcity value, I have to regard this mechanism as being more valuable than the Mona Lisa.
—30 November 2006

​

a technological device lost for nearly 15 centuries... zodiac was a prominent feature...

 

[Jennywocky]

see, now why hasnt something like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

been publicized more? fascinating...

a technological device lost for nearly 15 centuries... zodiac was a prominent feature...

I think the science and the functioning behind it is cool.

However, the random assortment of arbitrary personality traits based on pictures in the sky made loosely by connecting stars that only have meaning to beings on Earth (versus the universe), and the relative positioning of celestial bodies millions and billions of light years away all hurtling away from each other at breakneck speeds is not.

(Not that you said it was.)

 

[Montresor]

"spider hands"?

lol.

I guess one of the physical signs of Ti is stretched out fingers and limpish wrists, gesticulating, coupled with downward turned eyes. This often happens when seeking precision in thought, such as the right word to express an idea.

I notice it in myself a lot and it's easy to see in others.

 

[redbaron]

Aries.

There was a poll/thread a while ago and there was no obvious correlation at all from it.

 

[Hawkeye]

That's odd. I'm most certainly the same person I was ten years ago, or even twenty or twenty-five. I just know more now than I did back then, and am physically larger, plus I have all these legal rights and a car.

Technically, this is impossible as 99% of your cells will have been replaced with new ones within 10 years.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

I like my sign, but also think it insignificant.

Same here. It's sorta fun, kinda gives me a sense of identity, but nothing I'd fight someone over, unless I was really drunk.

Aries

I suspect that there is absolutely no correlation.

I remember watching one o' them there egghead-type shows that said there was a weak statistical correlation between one's date of birth and one's personality. I have two friends who were born the same day as me (one in the same hospital). One's pretty similar and one couldn't be more different.

Regardless of whether astrology has any merit, I have never read a horoscope that didn't sound generic.

I also remember reading that the military junta that used to rule Myanmar changed the country's name from Burma on the advice of their astrologers.

 

[SpaceYeti]

Technically, this is impossible as 99% of your cells will have been replaced with new ones within 10 years.

Nope. I save all my dead cells and eat them so that I keep all the original parts.

 

[Proletar]

High-five!



No but really, I think there might be some correlation. Even being self-classified as an INTP I am different from other INTPs. Obviously we don't act and think the same. We aren't typical INTPs.

Maybe I am molding my image to suit the astrology but I think I can relate to the Leo/Goat combination.

I am reserved and awkward yet I like to boast and join the company of people.

I don't know, maybe I am just molding it.

Maybe there is some self-applied significance. As a young boy, I am sure that I subjected some traits of the lion to my personality.

People usually read me wrong. They take me for the strong, silent type. Having played video-games since I was very little, I've becomed very skilled with my hands. Video-games, musical instruments, typing and so on are my strong suits. Pair that with big hands and a tall figure and I'm sure people MBTI-people meeting me in real life would take me for a sensor. Maybe those are the leo-traits? ^^

 

[pjoa09]

Maybe there is some self-applied significance. As a young boy, I am sure that I subjected some traits of the lion to my personality.

People usually read me wrong. They take me for the strong, silent type. Having played video-games since I was very little, I've becomed very skilled with my hands. Video-games, musical instruments, typing and so on are my strong suits. Pair that with big hands and a tall figure and I'm sure people MBTI-people meeting me in real life would take me for a sensor. Maybe those are the leo-traits? ^^

Oddly enough, I have big hands and I am tall. I did spend much of my time using my hand's size too, mostly in basketball and guitar. I used to play video games but I had to abandon it due to its time consuming nature, I could wind up playing for over 12 hours if I start and I am not even good at it.

I think I could be a sensor but I am sure I come off as an intuitive with my typical day dreamy behavior. Everyone can see how I am a Leo though, they cite my ability to confidently rationalize my decisions.

Then again, the idea of date of birth affecting behavior is really nonsensical.

 

[Montresor]

Technically, this is impossible as 99% of your cells will have been replaced with new ones within 10 years.

I'm sorry but is this really true? Or did you mean 99% of your cells* will be replaced in 10 years.

*except for the CNS, where neurogenesis occurs very selectively in adults and only in very specific cortical regions



I have the biggest hands.

 

[Hawkeye]

I'm sorry but is this really true? Or did you mean 99% of your cells* will be replaced in 10 years.

*except for the CNS, where neurogenesis occurs very selectively in adults and only in very specific cortical regions

My percentage was an exaggeration.

Here is a rough generalisation based on a 40 year old adult:

• Brain cells of the cerebral cortex (the grey matter) are with you from birth.
• Brain cells of the visual cortex (the array of cells in the front of the brain used for vision) are with you from birth.
• Brain cells of the cerebellum (the structures at the base of the brain) are slightly younger than you are.
• Intercostal muscle cells are about 15.1 years old.
• Gut lining cells are about 5 days old.
• Gut cells other than the lining are about 15.9 years old.
• Skin cells are about 14 days old.
• Red blood cells are about 120 days old.
• Bone cells are about 10 years old.

That said, I still doubt people stays the same "mentally" throughout their lives. Scientific experiments also seem to support this, going against the idea that people are "hardwired" in their ways by the age of 30.

 

[Jennywocky]

That said, I still doubt people stays the same "mentally" throughout their lives. Scientific experiments also seem to support this, going against the idea that people are "hardwired" in their ways by the age of 30.

I think that is based more on personality than anything. Some people calcify, others do not and continue to grow and change. I had a great aunt who I got to see little of but who I dearly loved; back in the 80's, when she was probably in her 70's, she had a Discman and other tech of the age, and very much enjoyed talking to people in their teens and 20's and understanding the pop culture of the time. Probably one of the most flexible people I met, learning and growing and changing.

But her sisters (including my grandmother) were less so. Some were less calcified than others, but at least one of them was pretty much living decades in the past and entrenched.

 

[Epic Leather]

When we look up at the sky and out into the cosmos we are seeing the universe as it was billions of years ago. Billions. Most of those lights in all likelihood either don't exist as we see them anymore or have been replaced by other younger celestial objects. So how, logically, can a system predicting and placing people born on this tiny planet far beyond the gravitational influence of stellar objects, much less their echos, be correct in determining personalities and traits? The constellations only appear as such from our vantige point, if you were to look at the same stars/galaxies from another point in the universe then it would look completely different.

I think Astrology is bogus, on par with religion. Its a primitive form of astronomy, much like alchemy is a primitive from of chemistry. Not to mention all the tests that have been done giving people readings of what thier sign is, and a majority agreeing with the reading, only to find out everyone was given the same information regardless of their real sign. Its a survival trait to look for patterns, and we search for patterns in everything, and if we look hard enough then we can find something in anything that applies to us. It is upon this principal i think that astronomy has survived for as long as it has.

Just my two cents.

 

[Hawkeye]

The thought has occurred to me that even though these stars may no longer exist, their influence does. Just like if the Sun were removed from the centre of the solar system. Its affect on the Earth (heat/light/gravitational pull/etc...) would remain for an 8 minute lag period.

Perhaps it could be all true?

Ooooooooooooooooo

 

[WhatTheFunction]

I'm a Sagittarius INTP and I have a friend who is a male Gemini INTP.

 

[Nezaros]

But her sisters (including my grandmother) were less so. Some were less calcified than others, but at least one of them was pretty much living decades in the past and entrenched.

It's basic human nature to stick with the familiar. It's tried and true, so you know it's safe. Some people take this too far and oppose anything new, while others do the opposite and embrace anything new, shunning that which is too familiar.

 

[Starswirl]

Aries, so there's little to no correlation.

Unless somehow date of conception reflects on the health or socioeconomic status of the parents...

 

[MrDane]

The problem I have with astrology is that it has no method. All astrologists I've heard of go about their "readings" intuitively. They might say there's a method--meaning that there are certain things that they always do, like asking for your birth date--but there's not one unified way of approaching a "reading" of a person. Some astrologists, sometimes referred to as "professional", are surprisingly good at saying true and specific things. They may be very perceptive about people. I do not think it has anything to do with an influence of stars and planets. If that were the case, the main influence in all our lives would be the planet earth, which astrologists never even take into account.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm not big into astrology, but I have noticed similarities in the INTP personality and the gemini personality. Just wondering if anyone else has made connections b/w their types. While I do think astrology is mostly bogus (especially with predicting the future) - it is often surprisingly spot on when it comes to personality traits. Thoughts?

I don't find that at all. And usually the personality traits are so generalized that they apply to everyone in some situation or another, and people tend to gloss over the items that don't apply well. There's a lot of Forer going on.

The problem I have with astrology is that it has no method. All astrologists I've heard of go about their "readings" intuitively. They might say there's a method--meaning that there are certain things that they always do, like asking for your birth date--but there's not one unified way of approaching a "reading" of a person. Some astrologists, sometimes referred to as "professional", are surprisingly good at saying true and specific things. They may be very perceptive about people. I do not think it has anything to do with an influence of stars and planets. If that were the case, the main influence in all our lives would be the planet earth, which astrologists never even take into account.

Yup, that's another issue. There is no indication that the position of heavenly bodies at time of birth has any consistent effect on personality type. Why would anyone even suggest one? It's purely magical thinking. We're also constantly whipping through space and even being born on the same day but at different times makes a remarkably vast difference in location (let alone on the same birthdays in differing years).

I suppose your only real test would be to find babies born around the world at the exact same moment and compare their personalities as they age. But I think we'd find that other things besides star positions (such as your parents, your culture, your economic background, etc.) have far more explicable impact on personality and behavior than the stars.

 

[Nameless01]

I guess for me I see it more as cosmology, watching the patterns of the planets, etc.

For example, studying the planets, sun, known therories, then figuring out Jupiter's red spot is the precursor to ejecting a moon.......

AndHera would be a more appropriate name.......

 

[thekatspajamas]

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh.
Astrology is baseless pseudoscience with absolutely no basis in fact. The modern types would be incorrect anyways because of the procession of the Earth over the last couple of millenia. I admit that I have a bit of extra vitriol toward astrology because being an astronomer, I am constantly asked, "Ohhh so what sign are you?" Fucking no. I am NOT some shitty astrologer. I am a scientist. Agh.

 

[Nameless01]

because being an astronomer, I am constantly asked, "Ohhh so what sign are you?" .

Now that's funny.

Say I remember reading a paper about a serial universe - do know of any sources somewhere at the Nature reading level for us mortals? The thing I read has a hard-core research document and I got lost at about page 3.

 

[thekatspajamas]

Now that's funny.

Say I remember reading a paper about a serial universe - do know of any sources somewhere at the Nature reading level for us mortals? The thing I read has a hard-core research document and I got lost at about page 3.

Serial universe? I'm sorry, you'll have to expand upon what you mean and give me some context. Are you talking about serialism, where supposedly past and present moments are currently occurring in different dimensions? That goes more into theoretical physics than astronomy

 

[Nameless01]

Serial universe? I'm sorry, you'll have to expand upon what you mean and give me some context. Are you talking about serialism, where supposedly past and present moments are currently occurring in different dimensions? That goes more into theoretical physics than astronomy

No problem -

What I am trying to articulate is Big Bang --->Expansion--->Contraction--->Big Crunch--->Big Bang, (infinite series)..Basically this is Universe n.

No extra dimensions.

Couple years ago, a proof and something to do with quantum physics.


I think the guy took the lectures of Dunne and gave it a modern treatment.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v134/n3393/abs/134729c0.html

 

[thekatspajamas]

No problem -

What I am trying to articulate is Big Bang --->Expansion--->Contraction--->Big Crunch--->Big Bang, (infinite series)..Basically this is Universe n.

No extra dimensions.

Couple years ago, a proof and something to do with quantum physics.


I think the guy took the lectures of Dunne and gave it a modern treatment.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v134/n3393/abs/134729c0.html

Ohhh okay, you're talking about the recollapsing universe theory. That's been pretty much disproven (or at least is not accepted by the majority of the scientific community) because of our universe's accelerating expansion. If our expansion was slowing, then a recollapsing universe could be a thing. Or if it was a steady expansion, it could be a constant rate sort of thing. But it's an accelerating expansion, where the furthest away galaxies are actually moving away from us more quickly than the nearby ones. It's counterintuitive in a lot of ways, which is where the concept of "dark energy" comes in. It's a pretty cool concept to read about, honestly

 

[Montresor]

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh.
Astrology is baseless pseudoscience with absolutely no basis in fact. The modern types would be incorrect anyways because of the procession of the Earth over the last couple of millenia. I admit that I have a bit of extra vitriol toward astrology because being an astronomer, I am constantly asked, "Ohhh so what sign are you?" Fucking no. I am NOT some shitty astrologer. I am a scientist. Agh.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh.

If you were a true INTP/astronomer/scientist you would spell precession (and possibly millennia) correctly.

***winces, anticipating slap to head

JKs!

 

[redbaron]

If you were a true INTP/astronomer/scientist you would spell precession correctly.

Procession and precession are two different words, and either one could apply in the context of her statement.

 

[Montresor]

Not so, o wise one.

"The procession of the earth" is simply the planet making its way around the sun. Proceed, planet, proceed.

"The precession of the earth" is the planet wobbling on its axis - a phenomenon which is known to permanently change the position of the stars in the sky. Earlier positions precede the known present positions.

And the context falls beautifully into place.

 

[Reluctantly]

It might depend on how you interpret astrology, but there are astrologers that don't believe everyone who has the same chart will be the same.

Rather, what these more legitimate astrologers do is magnify what is in your chart that parallels you and your life, ignoring what doesn't, depending on the individual. There can be wisdom in using these archetypes this way to elucidate someone's individual understanding of themselves versus taking a predefined description of a sign and applying that to everyone (which includes horoscopes as well).

In fact, I would wager that MBTI does the same thing, in that people find a type that fits them the most with whatever information they have, despite the fact that we all use different and sometimes contradictory type information and a different theoretical understanding of these types. Either way, we've learned something about ourselves by identifying with INTP in some way, despite the fact that we are all actually very different from one another and can't define what an INTP is exactly.

This is in contrast from the Forer Effect, where the idea is to be vague enough that any description can apply to anyone. MBTI can be used as a Forer Effect and it can not be; astrology as well can be used as a Forer Effect and it can not be.