INTP Transgender?

[Neckbeard]

Dupe account trolls are so cute.

On the off chance you're not just trying to get a rise out of people: appearance really isn't the major factor that motivates people to get a sex change. Trans people don't undergo HRT so they can look like another gender - they do it because they feel like they simply are the wrong gender.

They don't want to 'look' like the other gender, they want to BE the other gender. There's natural born women and men who look androgynous as it is, but who have no desire to undergo a sex change. They're happy being a womanly man or whatever and that's cool. It's entirely different to actually feeling like you're the wrong gender.

That makes sense.

Edit: They are happier just looking closer to what they believe to be their true identity.

It's something I can't really empathise with, I would be just as happy as a woman(i think). Also, generally as a rule I tend to not do something half-heartedly. I would not be happy looking like a womanly man if I were to undergo a sex change.

 

[Jennywocky]

If you understand something properly, it can be explained in a paragraph.

yeah, well, I wanted to see if you were invested in the discussion. Not just this discussion; on various topics, I've wasted time in the past engaging people who ended up not actually being invested and just wanted to drop a short zinger and move on.

I think you misunderstand my original post. Perhaps I worded it incorrectly. By freak, I mean, you don't want everyone to know you're a transsexual. Now does that sound more reasonable?

Considering suicide is far higher than average for that population and "freak" is one of those words/concepts that contributes to their suicide rate, yeah, using that term comes across as "troll post" versus serious interest in the topic. So I guess you can see my point, but I apologize if you meant something different.

In the US at least, "freak" and "moral pervert" are the two biggest slams I see being used, especially with the bathroom politics that go on here. Isolated in your own body and finally get to the point where you feel you HAVE to change things, but then being told you don't "look right" and are just a freak anyway.... well, what to do after that point? You're screwed. It's no wonder people are tempted to throw in the towel.

Still, "passing privilege" is a big topic since it impacts the degree of legitimacy society gives you. It's pretty incredible how binary gender is a huge deal in some cultures; we don't even know we're assigning people or recognize how uncomfortable we might feel when someone crosses the boundary.

 

[The Gopher]

Moral pervert? Huh, I don't think I've ever heard that before. (non US of course) I like it though. I would only use it in a joke context but I really like that.

 

[Jennywocky]

Yeah, US culture's kind of fubar in more ways than one.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

Another trans INTP to add to the mix. I will agree with the original poster about feeling different for my entire life, but I was born physically male and have been transitioning for nearly two years, but it's been slow. Also, I will agree with feeling kind of in between. Female pronouns, please.

It's definitely something that has to be thought out and a psychiatrist helps. He or she may even be nice enough to give you a prescription depending on where you are located. I got a prescription the first time I saw my shrink and was incredibly appreciative of it, but that was pretty much after hiding away for five years like Lauelin did. Also be aware of not having to pick a side per se. You can be androgynous like I am right now or genderfluid or something else; you don't have to pick male or female if you don't want to. Pick what makes you the most comfortable, which is what this whole thing is about, what makes us the most comfortable.

For instance, I started transitioning in my mid twenties but I went into the shrink's office for the psychological effects of the medication rather than the physical effects because I thought I would have a difficult time passing if I decided to fully transition, which I have chosen, by the way. Being six foot six, quite muscularly toned at the time, and what many people thought of as a very handsome man (that makes me want to vomit just typing it), I figured that I was essentially fucked. That was not the case, though. I'm actually pretty androgynous at the moment, which is something I see as an improvement, but physical transitions for MtFs can take upwards of three years not including full breast development which can take as long as ten. So, in general, I present androgynously, and sometimes I flip-flop with some fluidity for work for example when I have to be out for a work contract or something. I'll end up putting on a suit and pulling my hair into a topknot because being an engineer is still an old boys club and I'm in the position of currently being able to present as male if the need arises and dropping my voice seventy hertz back to its natural level helps, too. I'm really trying to keep everything androgynous at the moment until such time as my body catches up.

There should definitely be a weighing of the pros and cons when thinking about transitioning. Ultimately, it comes down to what you feel the most comfortable with, but the path is paved with many things unwanted. Firstly, hormones will result in some irreversible bodily changes. Secondly, you may be fired from your job depending on where you live. Thirdly, you will probably end up losing some of your friends and family. My family disowned me and I haven't talked to them in over a year, but the trade off is I am no longer suicidal from gender dysphoria, I feel more comfortable with myself, and I'm happier. And running from it seldom works. I tried to do all the manly things like going to the gym and bulking up, which was stupid in retrospect, drinking excessive amounts of beer in the name of male camaraderie, going out with the guys, et cetera. But that was all just an act. I always fit in better with females ever since I was very young and women seem to more accepting of transgender people, in my experience.

It's a lot easier to make decisions such as this when one doesn't give a damn as to what other people think. I know I don't and people don't fuck with me for some reason. Maybe it's my height or my dead eyes, or the fact that people tell me I'm intimidating, which I never really understood, but I'm happier overall than I was before.

Feel free to ask me any questions.

 

[Crux_Cheetah]

I'm starting to transition from female to make and it's making me feel better than before but I still feel empty. I guess I you just be yourself you'll be happy, like if you forget about gender and stereotypes. Yeah, I can't get along with girls well either, I found out I'm a transsexual and kept doubting it for an year. I've been crossdressing. Then I just couldn't hold it in, I felt stuck so I just told everyone. I guess you just have to be yourself and everything else sort of doesn't matter so much.

 

[Sinny91]

Female cross dresser?

I suppose I'm one too, but theres not much judgement against women wearing men clothes..

Different rules arent they.

I don't wear mens clothes in order to become a man.. I wear them because they make em much more practical and often warmer than womens clothes... guys boxers are comfy too.

Why do they get all the comforts?!

 

[Lot]

Why do they get all the comforts?!

Because women keep buying the shit clothes. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if dresses were ok for men to wear. So easy to put on and would help in the summer heat.

But yeah, women need to push for useful pocket and better bras. My poor gf has terrible marks where the bra straps were and it's sad to see. Why can't bras look good and feel good?

 

[Rixus]

I've wondered why they keep buying those things myself. Especially the shoes. If you made me wear some of those womens' shoes, I'd assume it was torture tell you anything you wanted to know. But those summer dresses do make me a little envious when I'm in the office sweating in a short and tie.

To say it's socially acceptable, though, is only half true. Men's casual clothes, yes, but of you wore a shirt, tire and trousers there would still be assumptions and comments made.

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[Sinny91]

Because women keep buying the shit clothes. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if dresses were ok for men to wear. So easy to put on and would help in the summer heat.

But yeah, women need to push for useful pocket and better bras. My poor gf has terrible marks where the bra straps were and it's sad to see. Why can't bras look good and feel good?

Ohhh, you have a girlfriend? Is that the one you took the plunge with?

 

[Sinny91]

I've wondered why they keep buying those things myself. Especially the shoes. If you made me wear some of those womens' shoes, I'd assume it was torture tell you anything you wanted to know. But those summer dresses do make me a little envious when I'm in the office sweating in a short and tie.

To say it's socially acceptable, though, is only half true. Men's casual clothes, yes, but of you wore a shirt, tire and trousers there would still be assumptions and comments made.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Well, there are women's suits... but quite often they are still thought upon as masculine...

I can't bare to wear skirts or dresses on a regular basis... I feel exposed and vulnerable.

Never know when I might need to break into a jog, or hop a wall... or deck somebody... the possibilities are endless, and one needs to be prepared.

 

[Rixus]

And that's the other thing I don't get - just simple things like sitting down and picking something up becomes a huge chore. And the poor ladies wearing them just seem so self conscious about it.

And the shoes - cutting into their feet. All I see is how much they must hurt.

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[Sinny91]

Well, you'd have to be self conscious if spreading your legs meant bearing your all.

I know this one twat who is always telling me to sit more lady like... would probably expect a curtsey too... he can suck my dick.

 

[Reluctantly]

I know this one twat who is always telling me to sit more lady like... would probably expect a curtsey too... he can suck my dick.

yeah, twats always like gobbling dick

 

[Rixus]

As a side note, I once looked up the etymology of the word "twat." Found it came from an Old Norse word which means a slit or crevice in the ground in that forms in the middle of a forest. I love the etymology of swear words.

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[Rixus]

Going back to the original OP, though, I have to admit it has been said before now that I should have been born female. I am heterosexual and have no intention of transition or passing for a woman or anything like that. However, I am not a typical masculine male. Most of my friends have always been girls, or women now obviously. A lot of people seem to think it's just hanging around them trying to get something out of them, but it's not the case. I've always found it difficult to relate to other guys as this whole masculinity bollox just seems illogical and pointless and I'd rather stay out of it. Drinking nights out with other guys just seem to be pissing contests, and I actually enjoy my occasional girls night out.

I am not very dominant, enjoy cooking and styling my daughters' hair and have no desire for casual sex encounters (though I have no issue with anyone who does enjoy it). I'm also a resident single parent and do the job of a typical mother (my mother seems to believe it a compliment that she buys me a mothers day card as I do as good a job as any mum).

I don't think it's anything to do with gender identity, though. I just don't feel any need to fit in with any societal expectations of behavior beyond what I consider right or acceptable ways to treat other people. I've noticed around here a lot of you sound quite androgynous, so maybe it is just an INTP thing. Without having to blend in, we end up questioning our stereotypical roles perhaps.

 

[Demonic Flamigo]

Objectively speaking,
to me, it deems that there are many more benefits being born male than female
- You don't have to always be gentle
- or responsible
- or do any of that dainty sh*t
- or child-birthing sh*t
- or menstrual sh*t
- like, you don't internally combust every month and spew blood everywhere out of a hole that you can't close
- wages
- skirts
- like, everything is wrong with skirts
- uniforms involving skirts
- uniforms to distinguish between gender i.e. shirts vs shorts, blouses vs shirts, a big ass bow vs tie
- IT'S THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY!!, you think people would have enough brains to distinguish the gender of people without the assistance of uniforms.
- lesbians
- NOT LIKE THAT! I meant that if you look up gay boys on google, you'll see cute couples kissing and cuddling and being happy, but Google lesbian girls and you'll be confronted with a gazillion dating sites, Sh*tloads of porn, and weird fetishes.
- you don't need to know how to do makeup
- you don't have heavy ass boobs suffocating you if you bend over or do anything upside-down
- Boobs in general
- they suck
- and are heavy
- and get in the way
- and are distracting
- and increase drag when you swim
- I HATE BOOBS
- srlsly why can't we all just go be boys

 

[Jennywocky]

Going back to the original OP, though, I have to admit it has been said before now that I should have been born female. I am heterosexual and have no intention of transition or passing for a woman or anything like that. However, I am not a typical masculine male. Most of my friends have always been girls, or women now obviously. A lot of people seem to think it's just hanging around them trying to get something out of them, but it's not the case. I've always found it difficult to relate to other guys as this whole masculinity bollox just seems illogical and pointless and I'd rather stay out of it. Drinking nights out with other guys just seem to be pissing contests, and I actually enjoy my occasional girls night out.

I am not very dominant, enjoy cooking and styling my daughters' hair and have no desire for casual sex encounters (though I have no issue with anyone who does enjoy it). I'm also a resident single parent and do the job of a typical mother (my mother seems to believe it a compliment that she buys me a mothers day card as I do as good a job as any mum).

I don't think it's anything to do with gender identity, though. I just don't feel any need to fit in with any societal expectations of behavior beyond what I consider right or acceptable ways to treat other people. I've noticed around here a lot of you sound quite androgynous, so maybe it is just an INTP thing. Without having to blend in, we end up questioning our stereotypical roles perhaps.

I think INTPs in general are prone to either be oblivious to the defined social gender roles or simply not even care (or hate them if society tries to enforce them). if there is not a rational or pragmatic reason for something, it gets dismissed as irrelevant or arbitrary.

Anyway, one can either fit or not fit within your own cultural gendered role regardless of one's inner sense of self-gender. You sound happy as whoever you are, in your one body, without feeling any kind of conflict, even though your self-expression happens to not conform to the most overt masculine behaviors...

As a side note, I once looked up the etymology of the word "twat." Found it came from an Old Norse word which means a slit or crevice in the ground in that forms in the middle of a forest. I love the etymology of swear words.

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Yeah, I love that shit too. Cracks me up when I can see where the word came from and how humans applied it.

... - srlsly why can't we all just go be boys

Because Death of Human Race i suppose... unless we learn how to reproduce through binary fission or maybe genetic injection into alien host organisms.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Transgenders are self-hating and insecure. They simply can't deal with the reality of not possessing what they desire. They ain't so different from the rest of the population that sympathises with them (for they too suffer from the very same affliction cept' it's a different desire*).

Resentment, envy...

So, they use words to convince themselves of what they are not, and use artificial methods (causing physiological havoc, it must be said) for superficial results (it will always be form and not substance).

A psychological disorder (or commonly immaturity) and self-abuse being encouraged and supported by a society indulging in fantasy.

Now it is even common to observe these abnormal, modern identities being assumed (which may entail self-abuse, whether it be surgery to 'transition' to the opposite sex, or even, to another specie) in order to garner attention by using them as fashion statements in order to project a pretense of originality and uniqueness; these narcissistic freaks are everywhere, and how do supposedly sane citizens respond? Cheer them on and ensure that they are non-judgmental and accepting (i.e. virtue signal) while censoring, punishing, and shaming any antagonists.


*Perhaps the reason citizens are very accepting is - if not for the fact that the righteous and entitled nature of certain groups' feelings are used to bully others - that if everyone is suddenly willing to accept such absurd claims, then who, would ever call somebody out on a claim that's at-least possible? A perfect circumstance for a culture obsessed with form or appearance, would it not be so? We can all be whatever takes our fancy, and the fact of it will be made certain by the feedback of others.





See link below

http://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

 

[Reluctantly]

well la-di-da. Now don't forget to cite and mention autogynephilia.

 

[Rixus]

I think INTPs in general are prone to either be oblivious to the defined social gender roles or simply not even care (or hate them if society tries to enforce them). if there is not a rational or pragmatic reason for something, it gets dismissed as irrelevant or arbitrary.

Anyway, one can either fit or not fit within your own cultural gendered role regardless of one's inner sense of self-gender. You sound happy as whoever you are, in your one body, without feeling any kind of conflict, even though your self-expression happens to not conform to the most overt masculine behaviors...

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not effeminate, either. I have several other typically male interests and characteristics. Such as my inability to share emotions with people in RL, I enjoy computer gaming and, although I find watching any team sports to be as interesting as paint drying, an interest in fitness and weight lifting has made me unusually strong (though not by any means a bodybuilder).

I believe that always having been an outsider, I didn't develop the need to conform to any typical stereotypes. "Matcho pride" is about as useful to me as a plastic frying pan. Of all my insecurities and forms of self loathing (I believe myself to be as lovable as a fart in a crowded elevator), my gender identity or sexuality is simply not among them. If I want to have a night painting nails with my daughters, or a night out on the town with old female friends from college, I will do so. And the ability to send my daughters to school with a different hairstyle each day is of benefit to them and improves our father/daughter bond - and believe it or not, is quite common amongst single fathers. Not being able to do something because it's not considered manly is just plan absurd to me.

Yeah, I love that shit too. Cracks me up when I can see where the word came from and how humans applied it.

I love how language evolved, and innocuous words became used as euphemisms which eventually became vulgarities in their own right.

My favourite will always be the fact that "cute" and "cunt" comes from same root word. Back in the middle ages, "quaynte" was often used as a euphemism for a lady's, uh, cute parts. (See The Miller's Tale from around 1300), but by Shakespeare's time had altered slightly and become a word you did not utter in polite company. So it always makes me laugh when the word is used as the speaker is actually calling someone cute.

 

[crippli]

Transgenders are self-hating and insecure. They simply can't deal with the reality of not possessing what they desire.

LOL. Is this like you're proposing there are human beings not fitting this description?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

True.

There are degrees though, superior (healthier) ways to cope (self-denial not being one of them) and to respond to the afflicted, as well as different degrees of severity of consequence relative to the nature of the insecurity.

 

[Jennywocky]

It's interesting to see what the "American College of Pediatricians" has to say, but they appear to be rather small (500 members nationally -- that's 10 per state, by average?) It's also interesting to see their background:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians

The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is an advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States.[1] The group was founded in 2002 by a group of pediatricians, including Joseph Zanga, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), as a protest against the AAP's support for adoption by gay couples.[2][3] The group's membership as of 2016 is estimated at 500 members,[4][5] in contrast to the AAP's over 60,000 members.[6]

ACPeds describes itself as "a national organization of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals dedicated to the health and well-being of children... committed to fulfilling its mission by producing sound policy, based upon the best available research, to assist parents and to influence society in the endeavor of childrearing."[7] Founder Joseph Zanga has described it as a group "with Judeo-Christian, traditional values that is open to pediatric medical professionals of all religions" provided that they "hold true to the group's core beliefs: that life begins at conception; and that the traditional family unit, headed by an opposite-sex couple, poses far fewer risk factors in the adoption and raising of children."[8]

The organization's view on parenting is at odds with the position of the American Academy of Pediatrics, which holds that sexual orientation has no correlation with the ability to be a good parent and to raise healthy and well-adjusted children.[5][9][10] The American College of Pediatricians has been described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group", with "a history of propagating damaging falsehoods about LGBT people".[11][12]

So despite their official sounding name, it looks like they are coming from a position of bias and are also a miniscule group compared with large, more legitimate organizations.

I was wondering if you knew what the other non-religious-affiliated groups might say, like

- The American Academy of Pediatrics (64,000 members)
- The American Psychological Association (77,550 members)
- The American Psychiatric Association (36,000 members)
- The American Medical Association (217,490 members, as of 2011)

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Popularity, power, or the relative size of organisations are not indications of the accuracy of judgments.

Not sure about the other organisations.

Moving back to a particular comment (see spoiler), upon further thought, I deem this unlikely (yet still a possibility) and wish to re-consider the reasons behind the acceptance of what evidence suggests to be a psychological disorder with severe and clear-cut consequences (see link above under "see link below"):

Spoiler

Perhaps the reason citizens are very accepting is - if not for the fact that the righteous and entitled nature of certain groups' feelings are used to bully others - that if everyone is suddenly willing to accept such absurd claims, then who, would ever call somebody out on a claim that's at-least possible? A perfect circumstance for a culture obsessed with form or appearance, would it not be so? We can all be whatever takes our fancy, and the fact of it will be made certain by the feedback of others.

A more probable explanation for this phenomenon may be that, within these particular cultures, there exists a crisis of nurturing owing to the lack of absolute certainty and guilt associated with asserting judgments. The subjects who judged and responded to certain conditions or behaviours in the past are experiencing a psychological reversal, that is to say, rather than targeting the object, one begins to target or judge the source of that which targeted the object inducing guilt and acceptance which may suggest that the collective judgments of a culture were never based in reason to begin with.

 

[The Gopher]

While it's true simply because someone is biased that doesn't mean they are wrong it also doesn't mean they are right. (Would that fall under ad hom?) So what needs to be done is an objective analysis. The issue is, defining something as mental illness or not seems rather subjective.

I've seen both sides of the camp advocate for and against it being classified as mental illness. It seems the four main positions are this.

Some people "against" seem to say it's a mental illness and take on PressureSprings or similar views.

Some people "for" seem to say it's technically a mental illness (Gender dysphoria) and good to be classified that way so they can get the help they need and the solution or one solution is transitioning.

Some people "against" seem to say it's not a mental illness but it's a perversion and wrong.

Some people "for" seem to say it's not a mental illness but it's good or fine.

There are also people who say the classification for mental illness should change.

Part of the problem is even if there is physical proof or biological reasons for various things they are still counted as disorders. (Depression is often caused by various chemical imbalances) Yet other things due to biological reasons are not counted as disorders. Regardless of if it is or isn't one I think the existence of mental illness should be de-stigmatized to begin with so people don't try to hide the fact they are depressed or suicidal.

Just because I'm re-entering this thread years later if I've said anything strange I want to re-iterate that my views have improved and evolved somewhat so don't preemptively judge me based on anything I may have said in the past.

What do you think?

Edit: I will point out I know the difference between what gender dysphoria technically means and how it's used in the above argument I am just pointing out the major opinions I've heard.

 

[Reluctantly]

I'm not sure why you think being transgender is encouraged. For every person that doesn't mind, there seems to be one that has a personal problem with it.

Part of being transgender means accepting that some people, on some level regardless of how a trans person looks or appears, are going to think poorly of trans people. Yet someone that is trans still feels it important to be true to themselves and represent themselves as the gender they feel they are, despite the hate.

Sure, you could say it's mental illness, but then you'd also need objective proof that the brain structure of a trans person is the same as their biological gender. And as far as I'm aware there isn't definitive proof of that. So what's the point in arguing against or for it? Why not just let people live their lives how they think best?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Excellent appeal to emotions and exposure of naivety.

Are you a female brain stuck in a male body?

You sure as hell think like a girl.

How is that female brain adapting to that penis of yours, do tell?

There's no definite proof to anything therefore we should cease judgment/thought/discussion and give reign to a chaotic free for all since social organisations are in fact invincible and able to mitigate all consequences without a cost.

Excellent.

 

[Reluctantly]

k. well good luck to you sir.

 

[The Gopher]

Excellent appeal to emotions and exposure of naivety.

Are you a female brain stuck in a male body?

You sure as hell think like a girl.

How is that female brain adapting to that penis of yours, do tell?

There's no definite proof to anything therefore we should cease judgment/thought/discussion and give reign to a chaotic free for all since social organisations are in fact invincible and able to mitigate all consequences without a cost.

Excellent.

See, this kind of thing doesn't help your case. It merely gives rise to any claim that you might be biased or irrationally against something for emotional reasons yourself. If you removed the first half of this post it would be more likely you would get a discussion and perhaps change minds with your second half.

What does thinking like a girl mean to you?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

A different approach was possible, yes, but that was the second time he had posted impulsively.

Well, it certainly doesn't suggest that a mature woman isn't capable of thinking straight. Might as well have said little boy but that wouldn't have allowed for a point to be made.

Look at that comment, it depicts the transsexual as brave (being self-absorbed and confused is brave now?) and attempts to induce guilt and uncertainty in others in order to lower their natural defenses. Pretending that is has no effects on others, as if individuals in a social organisation are isolated from one another, and ignoring the fact that this condition is spreading into academia, law, and policy.

Obsessing over being another gender and centering one's whole "identity" around it is not healthy. They are unnaturally preoccupied with their bodies or with particular (social) ideals similar to an anorexic. Remember, happiness is not necessarily a signal of health.

 

[The Gopher]

A different approach was possible, yes, but that was the second time he had posted impulsively.

Well, it certainly doesn't suggest that a mature woman isn't capable of thinking straight. Might as well have said little boy but that wouldn't have allowed for a point to be made.

It's not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything either way.

Nice save... (Oh you've edited since I started writing)

That was impulsive? I can understand disagreeing with the position but I really don't get your reaction based off what was said.

What was basically said was, if it was as easy as choosing a meal nobody would chose to be transgender because generally it's heavily discouraged.

Now I understand there are some insane parents who want to raise a snowflake who may try to heavily manipulate their children to do so, however on the whole it's not something encouraged.

Now some people do encourage it however that's more to offset the discouragement that happens before you even get to the point people know.

It's like choosing to do soccer vs curling. (okay it's not like that but lets run with this)

If you are in a town that heavily encourages soccer and you agree that soccer is better when someone decides instead to do curling you might see encouragement for that person and think. "Man it sucks that they are being encouraged to do curling." When in reality they were discouraged from doing curling up until the point they decided to do it anyway. Then the fact that a small subset of people who decided to encourage him in his dreams of Olympic curling anyway or were curling fanatics to begin... Doesn't mean that curling is encouraged in general.

It's simply a logic puzzle. Now if suddenly more people encourage curling then more people who secretly wanted to do curling might come out of the woodwork but that doesn't mean the increase in encouragement is necessarily causing this but it's simply what sport they would have done if curling wasn't stigmatized.

 

[The Gopher]

Look at that comment, it depicts the transsexual as brave (being self-absorbed and confused is brave now?) and attempts to induce guilt and uncertainty in others in order to lower their natural defenses. Pretending that is has no effects on others, as if individuals in a social organisation are isolated from one another, and ignoring the fact this condition is spreading into academia, law, and policy.

Obsessing over being another gender and centering one's whole "identity" around it is not healthy. They show an unnatural preoccupation of their bodies similar to an anorexic.

Well technically it can be brave, if it's right or not is another matter.

What effects does it have on others?

I agree that obsessing over anything being someone's identity is a problem but that's not tied necessarily to transgender. Some people obsess over being manly, or they obsess over being a boxer, or gay, or straight or white or black etc.... None of that is helpful, however if I was to take your entire identity, and put it in a female body there might be some incongruities. Our identity is built up based on every aspect of ourselves gender included. (Generally) Just you wouldn't notice it unless something was "wrong".

That said personally I fully admit I don't get it. I have no idea what male feels like and nothing to compare it to, I have no idea what female is supposed to feel like either. I'm pretty sure I could swap bodies tomorrow and as long as I kept the same physical capabilities and looked nice it wouldn't bother me. But it does bother some people and since it doesn't have any effect on me I don't worry about it. What effect is it having on you?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

No particular effect.

It's more about the social response, or denial, of illness or poor health which interferes with the processes that seek to restore health.

Nothing against those with poor health, but, claims of health are not proof of health.

Words are just words.

 

[Cognisant]

I would like to have more options in my wardrobe than long sleeves, short sleeves, long pants and shorts.

Also accidentally sitting on a testicle, fucking hell, whose idea was it to put them on the outside?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE

 

[The Gopher]

No particular effect.

It's more about the social response, or denial, of illness or poor health which interferes with the processes that seek to restore health.

Nothing against those with poor health, but, claims of health are not proof of health.

Words are just words.

Okay so, would you agree with some medical professionals who think it is a mental illness and should be classified as that so they can get the help they need. Specifically the help being transitioning? I'm trying to work out your position/opinion exactly.

I would like to have more options in my wardrobe than long sleeves, short sleeves, long pants and shorts.

Also accidentally sitting on a testicle, fucking hell, whose idea was it to put them on the outside?

That would be nice. Dresses seem quite cool for summer and would be easy to just throw in a bag and put on after I get out of motorcycle gear.

 

[Rixus]

I would like to have more options in my wardrobe than long sleeves, short sleeves, long pants and shorts.

Also accidentally sitting on a testicle, fucking hell, whose idea was it to put them on the outside?

It makes getting dressed easier. And the shoes - the testicles are a price worth paying not to have to wear those shoes. Have you seen the mess on a girl's feet at the end of the night?

Also, they're on the outside because they have to be kept below internal body temperature or they can't produce sperm. It's too hot inside,so they kind of hang out were it's a little cooler but in an area we should be able to protect reasonably well.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Resolving the problem, yes.
Via transitioning? No, the costs outweigh the benefits, and the "treatment" should be illegal from being administered to children/minors, and seek to be avoided with adults.

What help then and how?
I'm not in a position to answer that, however, there does seem to be a parasitic cultural component which influences these state of affairs that needs to be identified and resolved.

 

[The Gopher]

It makes getting dressed easier. And the shoes - the testicles are a price worth paying not to have to wear those shoes. Have you seen the mess on a girl's feet at the end of the night?

Also, they're on the outside because they have to be kept below internal body temperature or they can't produce sperm. It's too hot inside,so they kind of hang out were it's a little cooler but in an area we should be able to protect reasonably well.

Well, it's socially acceptable to wear normal shoes for both genders. For real though I would wear dresses and skirts for practical reasons with normal shoes if I didn't want to avoid the stereotype that'll go along with it.

Resolving the problem, yes.
Via transitioning? No, the costs outweigh the benefits, and the "treatment" should be illegal from being administered to children/minors, and seek to be avoided with adults.

What help then and how?
I'm not in a position to answer that.

I think in general for children puberty blockers are used until they are old enough to really be able to decide. If they decided not to they can just go off them and if they decide to it'll be easier to transition. Which is a practice I agree with since children generally can't make informed decisions.

No, the costs outweigh the benefits. Okay. What costs and what benefits?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

It must be said that a transition should not be regarded as a treatment. These are not cases where people are born with damaged, physical bodies which must treated in order to restore it to a healthy, functioning form. This is the precise opposite of that, where the physical body has the resources necessary to operate a variety of processes to function as fate would have it, and the "treatment" disrupts that, and the reason it is done, is to fulfill irregular and rare psychological needs.

It must be stressed that it is not a "transition" to the other sex since the essence will always remain (analyzing a male trans-corpse will signal MALE); what it is, is a transition to a deformed and dysfunctional body that has lost a variety of abilities (e.g. reproduction). This is nothing short of mutilation driven by a psychological disorder. It would be unethical for any health care professional to get involved in the process of "transitioning" (a deceitful word) unless absolutely necessary. People have become de-sensitized and brainwashed to such a degree that they cannot even perceive that reality.

Someone's claim that they were born in the wrong body has nothing to do with reality. This implies an error on behalf of natural processes. The effect, or existence of a state speaks for itself!

Please refer to the link in the first post under "see link below".

 

[The Gopher]

Please refer to the link in the first post under "see link below".

Yeah I read it. I was wondering if you followed up with what Jennywocky said and looked into what potentially less biased sources say. Not saying it's wrong but it's good to do the due diligence on these type of things. I'm pretty sure I could find a source that says whatever I want it to.

 

[Reluctantly]

Sometimes I wish we were all in the same house, so I could dump soda on people's keyboards.

eh, I know this dude already made up his mind before he started and he's just on a crusade, but meh, I'm bored, what the hell. Maybe he can talk about my "penis" again.

@Pressure
But the idea that transgender is about obsession is false. It may be true for some that are not trans, but a lot of trans come to the realization that they have been trying to go against their instincts. It's a realization of what they are that creates gender dysphoria and a desire to live a life that's more true to themselves, not an obsession.

Second, there are plenty of people that get confused about gender, as well as people that consider themselves men that want to be women. I think Ann Lawrence is someone that considers himself(?) a homosexual man, despite having a full sex change to female. And there are plenty of people that got a sex change that decided they weren't trans, but just confused. And that's all good. But it doesn't mean there aren't actual trans people that can and do exist.

Third, it's believed that hormones during pregnancy shape the brain in various ways, which can produce different results, such as homosexuality (which also doesn't have "proof", yet it exists). Which leads me to my next point.

Fourth, if there's no proof for it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you fail to understand this, you're just stupid. It's very simple reasoning. It doesn't back up your case and it doesn't mean I don't think you should discuss it. It just doesn't AT ALL support your case that it doesn't exist. If on the other hand, you had legitimate proof to show it doesn't exist, that would be different. But that hasn't been found. Of course you can find biased studies that suggest it does or does not exist, but nothing with hard evidence.

Lastly, I don't actually disagree with you. A lot of the stuff you mention is true in particular cases, but it doesn't apply to all trans people and saying that it's all mental illness doesn't relate to the reality of the many trans people that lead fulfilling lives as the gender they know they are, where previously they couldn't.