INTP stuff

[JansenDowel]

Ok so a few months ago I got depressed and wrote on this forum (thanks everyone for your support, if you remember me). Stuff happened and I decided I wanted to make more friends.

Two months later I have made many friends. The problem I am having is with the females I have become friends with. Many of them want to be more than just friends. Every time I am around them, I feel almost obliged to indulge them. Does anyone else have this problem?

 

[Fukyo]

Yeah, I need to beat bitches off with a stick. Women are like horny alley cats!

 

[JansenDowel]

Yeah, I need to beat bitches off with a stick. Women are like horny alley cats!

Lol ok then.

 

[TheManBeyond]

damn sad story bro
r.i.p

 

[JansenDowel]

damn sad story bro
r.i.p

It is, actually.

 

[Object]

Do what you were made to do.

 

[QuickTwist]

which is have a lot of sex apparently.

 

[JansenDowel]

Do what you were made to do.

Talk about Final Fantasy?

 

[Object]

Talk about Final Fantasy?

Put your willie in her hoo-hoo.

 

[StevenM]

Have to be responsible and have the talk. Be casually honest. And from then on, don't do anything to lead them on or confuse them.

Spoiler

Which quite simply is: No I love you's. No inappropriate touching. It's actually easy if being an INTP, because you can default to your usual, default self.

Most likely, they won't like you less. If said the right way, they would respect you more.

 

[computerhxr]

Many times, women have a difficult time controlling their emotions and believe that strong emotions is a sign of love. You have to be stronger than that, or be prepared for a shit-storm and more depression down the road.

Oddly, being like this only makes them want you more so... Good luck!

 

[Jennywocky]

... oh you guys.

 

[JansenDowel]

... oh you guys.

A womans perspective might be helpful?

 

[Pizzabeak]

Not just limited to females, but women are more likely to be filled with "passion" and be passion fueled, often times rushing into action without thinking of any likely effects of their passion fueled actions. Anything that provides output they will be drawn to without discrimination, forming a bias and an association. People in general then form attachments to their materializations to help provide faster insight into what can bring them good or bad. In short, they think anyone who shows attention must want to give them something or provide nurturing. Women are weak and as a man must have a sense of guidance and show them the way.

They, essentially, are the sidekick to a man. They were programmed to think this way. Try to explain that just because you feel the need to engage in company doesn't mean that you are interested sexually. It will give them something to think about. They'll wonder if they are pretty enough for you or not, then they might seek out the company of other men whom they might be pretty enough for, men who will appreciate their form. Still contact them further and let them know you appreciate their time and company so as to keep further meetings possible. A risky technique though, as you could possibly lose friends. The suggested thing to do is to not burn any bridges and just bear through it, perhaps hang out with them less often. If you just want to watch TV together and not get physical this needs to be communicated, it might not be what they want to hear but can only, if done right, help them with their life in ways they will thank you for in the near future.

 

[TheManBeyond]

hahhahhah kill yourself dude

 

[computerhxr]

We're all part female. Women are typically more female than men. Gender vs. Sex.

I had a transexual professor. She said that once she started taking hormones; shit hit the fan. Uncontrollable emotions and erratic behavior. My takeaway from the class... Men have it way easier than women.

Learning to control emotion, is called emotional intelligence. Men typically don't have to learn emotional intelligence because they just ignore feelings altogether. Most men are emotionally-retarded due to societal pressures. They are taught that emotions are a sign of weakness, which is false.

 

[thoughtfully]

Forget about making sense. Go with any flow that passes by.

 

[JansenDowel]

Wooow, hold your horses there Pizzabeak. Women are not "emotion bags". And they are not "sidekicks". Whats more, men can be and are just as irrational and sentimental as women.

 

[TheManBeyond]

I'm impulsive, irrational, angry, unstable and emotional in my own private way.
I wish i had a higher private emotional IQ.
dom Fe?
owg gad

 

[JansenDowel]

Im not sure what you are trying to say. But my Fe is definitely about as strong as my Ne.

 

[computerhxr]

...

You're not doing anyone any favors by "indulging" them.

 

[TheManBeyond]

It is like doing break dance or being exorcised in front of a crowd, you twist your body until it collapses while everyone is keeping eye on you. But they just see a man who stands there looking at the horizon. Even if you know they know nothing, you feel both socially ashamed and angry with yourself because there was a split taking place at the same time and so you were able to yourself from the crowd side. And you wonder what is going on inside you if nothing trully happens.

 

[JansenDowel]

You're not doing anyone any favors by "indulging" them.

Yeah I figured that. I'm just a little neurotic sometimes.

 

[JansenDowel]

....... stuff.

I don't do riddles?

 

[louiesgonnadie]

The problem I am having is with the females I have become friends with. Many of them want to be more than just friends.

How tall are you?

 

[Reluctantly]

Two months later I have made many friends. The problem I am having is with the females I have become friends with. Many of them want to be more than just friends. Every time I am around them, I feel almost obliged to indulge them. Does anyone else have this problem?

okay, seriously/
How is this a problem? Have fun with it; if they like you, they like you. You can flirt a little bit, without it meaning you want a girlfriend. If it hurts their self-esteem or something, they are probably a little unstable, which isn't really anything to do with you anyway. And you might end up liking one of 'em later on.

 

[JansenDowel]

How tall are you?

Average.... Why?

 

[dark+matters]

Not just limited to females, but women are more likely to be filled with "passion" and be passion fueled, often times rushing into action without thinking of any likely effects of their passion fueled actions. Anything that provides output they will be drawn to without discrimination, forming a bias and an association. People in general then form attachments to their materializations to help provide faster insight into what can bring them good or bad. In short, they think anyone who shows attention must want to give them something or provide nurturing. Women are weak and as a man must have a sense of guidance and show them the way.

They, essentially, are the sidekick to a man. They were programmed to think this way. Try to explain that just because you feel the need to engage in company doesn't mean that you are interested sexually. It will give them something to think about. They'll wonder if they are pretty enough for you or not, then they might seek out the company of other men whom they might be pretty enough for, men who will appreciate their form. Still contact them further and let them know you appreciate their time and company so as to keep further meetings possible. A risky technique though, as you could possibly lose friends. The suggested thing to do is to not burn any bridges and just bear through it, perhaps hang out with them less often. If you just want to watch TV together and not get physical this needs to be communicated, it might not be what they want to hear but can only, if done right, help them with their life in ways they will thank you for in the near future.

Wow! I do hope you realize that this is extremely sexist and offensive to anyone with a healthy attachment to a female human being (a mother, a sister, a lover, a friend, etc.). I'm not sure how you are making it through a fully-accredited college with this mindset (unless this is a troll post and I'm just being a sucker for even responding). I've been hearing a lot of buzz about severe problems with misogyny on all the rationals' forums, and I was kind of denying it before... maybe because it baffles me a little. I don't know how a person could even read a syllabus in a 101 community college class without reading a teacher's warning against sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. I know I might be coming across as harsh, but I hope you understand that you could get in severe, real-life trouble with these kinds of attitudes. These kind of attitudes will really damage your future relationships and professional opportunities. Even a grocery store is bound to laws against sexual discrimination, and sex is a protected class according to federal law. It wouldn't be hard to get fired or receive other disciplinary action for remarks like that spoken and overheard in real life, and it wouldn't just be women looking out for signs of prejudice in coworkers, fellow students, etc.

I do remember the OP poster's problem with wanting to find new friends, and I also remember your mentioning being quite young. Are you certain that these girls want to be more than friends, or is there a chance you might be reading a little bit more into the situation? I don't think you can get yourself into too much trouble if you avoid faking any interest that isn't there, and if you're emotionally honest with yourself and others, yet avoid words or actions which could come back to bite you later. That's probably a sensible way to proceed in any interactions with any people. Maybe some male friends could help keep your social life balanced and stable too. Enjoy the attention while it lasts!

 

[nanook]

it's not sexist, it's not a mindset, it's a real life experience. women are like this, not all women, but probably 99% women at pizzabeaks age in pizzabeaks local scene. it's highly sexist to call men sexist when they report their factual experience with women. at worst he lacks the intuition to take into account that his local experience is not a global reality. pizzabeaks mindset is that he wants to teach these women more selfrespect, that is the opposite of sexism. his experience has to be seen in the context that he is a directive personality type, so all the girls who come to him are adaptive personality types, possibly extroverts, who have great difficulty to not get lost in their outward desires entirely. i myself, as an adaptive man, have been taught by an infj woman, how to find the right measure of longing for her company and being able to stay with myself and "in" myself, with a sense of being complete, in her absence or distance. it's just the right amount of practical distance, communicated by infj or enfj (and proably isfj and esfj), communicated in the context of fully acceptance of who you are, that can be healing.

>but I hope you understand that you could get in severe, real-life trouble with these kinds of attitudes

true dat. women who are paranoid in sexist manner are absolutely everywhere, all the blogs and magazines educate women to hate men, for nothing other than human nature, which the very same magazines and blogs are in denial of. there is fascist society wherein men are the jews.

 

[JansenDowel]

I do remember the OP poster's problem with wanting to find new friends, and I also remember your mentioning being quite young. Are you certain that these girls want to be more than friends, or is there a chance you might be reading a little bit more into the situation?

Its possible, but not very likely. Just to clarify; I have four female siblings and I get along with all of them. Anyway, it IS incredible the amount of total ignorance in this one forum. Maybe these guys are using their Ti too much?

@Nanoonk: You can't be serious. Exactly how much experience do you have with females? How many women have asked about why they do what they do?

 

[BrainVessel]

Not just limited to females, but women are more likely to be filled with "passion" and be passion fueled, often times rushing into action without thinking of any likely effects of their passion fueled actions. Anything that provides output they will be drawn to without discrimination, forming a bias and an association. People in general then form attachments to their materializations to help provide faster insight into what can bring them good or bad. In short, they think anyone who shows attention must want to give them something or provide nurturing. Women are weak and as a man must have a sense of guidance and show them the way.

They, essentially, are the sidekick to a man. They were programmed to think this way. Try to explain that just because you feel the need to engage in company doesn't mean that you are interested sexually. It will give them something to think about. They'll wonder if they are pretty enough for you or not, then they might seek out the company of other men whom they might be pretty enough for, men who will appreciate their form. Still contact them further and let them know you appreciate their time and company so as to keep further meetings possible. A risky technique though, as you could possibly lose friends. The suggested thing to do is to not burn any bridges and just bear through it, perhaps hang out with them less often. If you just want to watch TV together and not get physical this needs to be communicated, it might not be what they want to hear but can only, if done right, help them with their life in ways they will thank you for in the near future.

Thank you for spending a good amount of your short life to explain to us that women are inherently irrationally emotional and passionate beings that must be subjugated and thank you for asserting that women are weak and relative to men. No, really, I cannot thank you ENOUGH for dragging the human species back to the ethics of 500 years ago. I heartily agree, we must devolve! What a blessing your insights are. Namaste.

 

[BrainVessel]

It is like doing break dance or being exorcised in front of a crowd,

exorcised?

 

[BrainVessel]

it's not sexist, it's not a mindset, it's a real life experience. women are like this, not all women, but probably 99% women at pizzabeaks age in pizzabeaks local scene. it's highly sexist to call men sexist when they report their factual experience with women. at worst he lacks the intuition to take into account that his local experience is not a global reality. pizzabeaks mindset is that he wants to teach these women more selfrespect, that is the opposite of sexism. his experience has to be seen in the context that he is a directive personality type, so all the girls who come to him are adaptive personality types, possibly extroverts, who have great difficulty to not get lost in their outward desires entirely. i myself, as an adaptive man, have been taught by an infj woman, how to find the right measure of longing for her company and being able to stay with myself and "in" myself, with a sense of being complete, in her absence or distance. it's just the right amount of practical distance, communicated by infj or enfj (and proably isfj and esfj), communicated in the context of fully acceptance of who you are, that can be healing.

>but I hope you understand that you could get in severe, real-life trouble with these kinds of attitudes

true dat. women who are paranoid in sexist manner are absolutely everywhere, all the blogs and magazines educate women to hate men, for nothing other than human nature, which the very same magazines and blogs are in denial of. there is fascist society wherein men are the jews.

It is sexist to apply an assumed characteristic to even 99% of women. The base of the feminist movement is to free women from stereotypes and give them equal freedoms to men, and while striving for women's equality they have recognized that there are not only prejudices affecting them, but everyone. Feminists seek to emancipate all those from the unfair oppression of social construct and prejudice. Feminists seek to stop looking at people as their sex, sexuality, race, and age and start looking at them as they are.
There are very loud man-hating matriarchal feminists, they are bad representations of feminists and are not true feminists.

If you resist equality because you make assumptions about people that share similar traits to another person or group of people, you are being intolerant, closed minded, and you are the oppressor.

Making assumptions from observations and applying them to a group other than the observed group as you have IS sexism.

 

[Architect]

It is sexist to apply an assumed characteristic to even 99% of women.

What about applying a characteristic to 99% of INTP's, what is that, typism? What about the reverse, say you do a study that finds that 90% of men like to be the breadwinner of the family, is that sexist, or just statistics?

I'm with Camille Paglia, I think feminism has done more harm to women's rights than help.

 

[BrainVessel]

What about applying a characteristic to 99% of INTP's, what is that, typism? What about the reverse, say you do a study that finds that 90% of men like to be the breadwinner of the family, is that sexist, or just statistics?

I'm with Camille Paglia, I think feminism has done more harm to women's rights than help.

I'm talking about assumptions, not statistics or direct observation. There is nothing wrong with statistics or direct observation, but assuming because of those is harmful.

In what was have striving for equal rights and emancipation from prejudice done any harm? "Feminists" who don't understand feminism have done harm, but otherwise? Do you have any examples?

 

[StevenM]

Regarding pizzabeak, it sounds to me that he was just venting a personal frustration. Both men, and women, vent from personal frustrations, and in the heat of it all, it is natural to make over-generalizations and exaggerations.

Who is to say that men are rational? I have not seen one person, man or woman, who don't succumb to their emotions, who are not biased in their assumptions, who has not made an action that led to failure. Who does not hold a single delusion of any kind, and who is not fooled by illusions? Who has perfect eidetic memory?

Who is to say men don't act on the passion of the moment?

Anyways, from my personal experience, I haven't had a just-friends woman frustrated by our relationship. We get along just as good as we would with the same sex. And for extra information, one woman is a single bi-romantic, one other is a single hetero, and the third is engaged.

The single hetero admitted from the start, that she had a crush on me. In my opinion, she took it very well when I had the talk with her, and we've been doing good together.

The worst thing a person can do is play games and flirt and confuse the hell out of the other person.

 

[BrainVessel]

Considering women are people(some people in this thread seem to fail to recognize this, so I thought I should remind), and all people are different, you can't just ask women what they think. They MIGHT have a more similar opinion to the women in question but it's doubtful that they will be able to give you insights into a different woman's mind...
I agree, there aren't enough women in power in proportion to men to ensure that everything is in both men and women's best interest.

Yes. Everyone vents, but should still be able to control themselves and not be blatantly sexist.

 

[StevenM]

Yes. Everyone vents, but should still be able to control themselves and not be blatantly sexist.

I'll admit, I've done it before. Sometimes, all it takes is just one or two bad apples to completely topple over reason. Anger injects a certain amount of infectious fallacy into cognition and the result can be quite powerful.

Controlling one's self is a formidable task in certain situations.

 

[BrainVessel]

I'll admit, I've done it before. Sometimes, all it takes is just one or two bad apples to completely topple over reason. Anger injects a certain amount of infectious fallacy into cognition and the result can be quite powerful.

Controlling one's self is a formidable task in certain situations.

You should always be able to control yourself or find a way to, and if you really can't, apologize and carry on in the mindset to not lose control again. Are you trying to excuse sexism?
What are you trying to say?

 

[Architect]

In what was have striving for equal rights and emancipation from prejudice done any harm? "Feminists" who don't understand feminism have done harm, but otherwise? Do you have any examples?

I stepped into the conversation so have missed the tenor of it, sorry for that.

I'll compare it to Gay Rights. I'm not aware that the GR movement overstepped its bounds in any way. They got what they needed - equal rights more or less (marriage rights are still being worked on) and properly stopped there. Peaceful coexistance.

Women's rights on the other hand doesn't know where to stop, which is where the harm comes in (in particular they're destroying that which they try to get - status for women). These bitter harpies seem to be doing their best to want to destroy society. There's a flame war going on at the moment over Nerd abuse. You know - us nerds are abusing women. Too much to detail, I see a lot of it being in the industry (example, a female engineer told me that using the word "Hack" was not being inclusive, i.e. being a male chauvinist pig), but you wouldn't believe the bullshit.

Taking a step back Camille Paglia (a good feminist) says it better than I can, here she is last year on the issue from a broader perspective (provocative title, make sure to read it carefully)

It’s a Man’s World, and It Always Will Be

 

[nanook]

*ism is when you think you have the right to tell other people what to do or to send them to hell if they don't obey, such as when one tells pizzabeak that he must never generalize an experience, even though all people generalize all of the time and even though it's just a rhetorical laziness.

to say that all humans are stupid psychotic fucks is not an *ism, it's a subjective observation which might or might not be accurate. everyone is free to consider it, but everyone has their own perception. if two individuals agree on one perception it's coincidental and both are equally responsible.

but to say that nobody must say that humans are psychotic fucks is an attempt to overstep boundaries and intrude into someone's head and is therefore an *ism.

as much as women are craving power over their provider slaves, they don't have the right to become the ueber dogma nazis they want to be, who get to tell everybody what language is politically correct and what is not.


rights don't exist. nature exists. nobody has a right to implement judgements outside of himself. the body is the outer limit. people implement judgements into the lifes of other people just because they can get away with it. it's called violence. you can implement a judgement into your own actions and nobody can stop you, but if you try to implement it into the life of other people, you can be stopped and you have to expect it. in other words you don't have a granted right to have your way of violence.

women are more social by nature, which means pluralistic women with ethnocentric shadows are worse nazis than pluralistic men with ethnocentric shadows. let's not talk about the retards who get into rights movements even though they aren't even pluralist on the surface.

oh, but the world will be a better place if more women will be leaders.

hail to the mothergoddes. we are mother. we have the command.

 

[nanook]

Wow! I do hope you realize that this is extremely sexist and offensive to anyone with a healthy attachment to a female human being (a mother, a sister, a lover, a friend, etc.). I'm not sure how you are making it through a fully-accredited college with this mindset (unless this is a troll post and I'm just being a sucker for even responding). I've been hearing a lot of buzz about severe problems with misogyny on all the rationals' forums, and I was kind of denying it before... maybe because it baffles me a little. I don't know how a person could even read a syllabus in a 101 community college class without reading a teacher's warning against sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. I know I might be coming across as harsh, but I hope you understand that you could get in severe, real-life trouble with these kinds of attitudes. These kind of attitudes will really damage your future relationships and professional opportunities. Even a grocery store is bound to laws against sexual discrimination, and sex is a protected class according to federal law. It wouldn't be hard to get fired or receive other disciplinary action for remarks like that spoken and overheard in real life, and it wouldn't just be women looking out for signs of prejudice in coworkers, fellow students, etc.

to be fair, upon rereading, it does not seem like you told him, that he must not say what he said, you only informed him that you perceive it as offensive and tried to put the fear of the feminist god into him, which is somewhere between okay informal speech and a hidden 'persuasion'. borderline *ism only.

 

[TheManBeyond]

I think it is ok to tell people they are wrong about something when it is so painfully obvious. Maybe i lacked the intuition to think he lacked intuition to see it was not a general thing but maybe he just prefered to jump over that obstacle, failing at it, breaking his leg and falling down a gulch ending drowning his mouth in muddy waters.

 

[StevenM]

. Are you trying to excuse sexism?
What are you trying to say?

My intention is not to excuse sexism. Indeed, women should have as much of a right as men. Women as a group are not necessarily weak, and are just as capable as anyone else. As would be the same for any kind of sex. When it comes to our opinions of sexism, you and I are on the same page.

nanook: but to say that nobody must say that humans are psychotic fucks is an attempt to overstep boundaries and intrude into someone's head and is therefore an *ism.

Also, it is not my intention to say that all people are delirious, or stupid.

Because in the same breath, I am also able to say that regardless of women or men, I have seen most of anyone make very wise and calculating decisions. I have witnessed most people overcome bias, decipher delusion, and temper a passion in the moment. I have seen many, many capable and intelligent, insightful people.

BrainVessel: You should always be able to control yourself or find a way to, and if you really can't, apologize and carry on in the mindset to not lose control again

All I was trying to say, is that there may need be lax for the certain mistakes and corruptions people commonly fall prey to.

I'm sorry, but I would have to say that it is irrational to expect everyone to always be in control of themselves at all times, and in all situations.

***************

While I disagree with pizzabeak, I just wanted to state an opinion of his opinion. That is, I believed it came from a place of frustration from personal experiences. Not that I had the same experiences, but have seen other men make the same judgements. Ironically, I have also heard the exact same judgements coming from women. That men were weak to the beauty of the women, and become powerless to the growing passion within them.

Not having to do with sexual identities, I have caught myself making sweeping over-generalizations out of a biased observation of frustrating experiences.

4 times now, I have been attacked by birds when walking through the woods. Thus, I shall make it known, that woods should not be entered, unless one enjoys being attacked by birds.

3 times, a mechanic, instead of fixing my car, actually made it worse. Thus I will make it known, that all mechanics are no good, and one should learn to fix it themselves.

For the second time now, Starbucks had put in cream that went sour in my coffee. Thus I will let it be known, that coffee should not be bought from starbucks, for they have a large propensity to use bad cream.

I've tried texas holdem once, and lost lots of money. Thus, the game is obviously a fool's game, meant for those who are blinded by the optimism of perhaps winning, but will be destroyed by it.

I am just trying to state that perhaps, this thinking process happens even to the best of us.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Wooow, hold your horses there Pizzabeak. Women are not "emotion bags". And they are not "sidekicks". Whats more, men can be and are just as irrational and sentimental as women.

Well the very first thing I said in that post is "not just limited to females"

 

[JansenDowel]

Well the very first thing I said in that post is "not just limited to females"

If this is really what you meant, then you need to work on your wording because saying "women are mens sidekick" does sound incurious and sexist.

 

[Reluctantly]

What if the sidekick uses their charm to influence and control the master, then is the sidekick still a sidekick or the new master? ???

 

[mrrhq]

I do wonder though.... How does an INTP make good friends?
It seems as if I have not been looking in the right places.
I also hate the word "anti-social" that I've been hearing people use to describe me Online. Because it sounds like I am communicating the wrong way, socially to people, which could be true, or it might not... I mean, what does anti-social actually mean anyway? Like... the opposite of social, or Antosocial Personality Disorder? I'm pretty much neither.

I prefer "loner" over that, even. I prefer solitude. I just can't help it. I strangely respect people who can keep up conversations with other normal people. It's still a skill, just like any other skill I wish I had in my possession sometimes. I still love my family to death though, especially now that I'm alone in my own apartment now, and I don't have to listen to them bicker, don't need to hear them call me for dinner, don't have to do their dishes (just my own) or any of that other fuckhead stuff. Ahem, pardon me... Maybe I really am anti-socal. But I couldn't give a God damn, motherfucking shit on a cake with rainbow sprinkles.

I get to talk to them every week. Haha, but yeah... It sucks that no one in the world really wants to talk to you anymore. Oh well, just learn to love everyone and everything in the world, the Zen way, and realize that in an anthropological sense, everyone loves each other, no matter what, and I do mean no matter what. Even if someone says, "go kill yourself", no one really means it. I'm dead serious. Hahahaha-hur. I'm so used to it now, it isn't even a problem for me anymore. At all.

 

[nanook]

I have become oddly sexualized, don't get me wrong, i'm not that kinky dude with a fox tail, i had three steady girlfriends, that's the whole story of my sex life, but i can't help myself, it seems physicality is theoretically the only language that can connect me intimately to other people, that won't generate painful misunderstandings or pointless entanglement through personal values. It's not because i am shallow, it's because i am too deep to seek pointless entanglement and not practiced or skilled in verbal translation or reduction. It's also because i don't associate depth with attachment and identity based hybris. For many introverts, deep introverted encounters are still fused with concepts of relationship, wherein confirmation of illusions is the trading currency and i begin to perceive this as shallow. I give 100% of my attention to another person and i don't discard/forget them, but this is just getting to know them, not owning them or making deals with them.

 

[nanook]

I get to talk to them every week. Haha, but yeah... It sucks that no one in the world really wants to talk to you anymore. Oh well, just learn to love everyone and everything in the world, the Zen way, and realize that in an anthropological sense, everyone loves each other, no matter what, and I do mean no matter what. Even if someone says, "go kill yourself", no one really means it. I'm dead serious. Hahahaha-hur. I'm so used to it now, it isn't even a problem for me anymore. At all.

I know what you mean.

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