INTP personality and school

[PreAlgebra]

Has being an INTP ever caused you any problems in school? If so, what kind of problems? I am talking strictly academically and not socially.

The biggest problem I had was seeing the value of grades and was completely satisfied with getting a C in every class. This wasnt because I did not want to do the work or was lazy but because I have no interest in accolades. This has regrettably cost me scholarships and being able to get into the schools that I would have liked.

I would also get very bored in school if I wasnt completely engaged and/or being challenged, which was almost always. This of course made me resent school a lot.

Because of my independent nature I found it really hard to focus on a topic that I was not totally interested in and would want to focus on my own thing. I would always just study my topics or something that was somewhat related to class.

I also found it really hard to respect and listen to a professor if I didnt respect them intellectually. This wasnt to bad in college but it definitely made for some horrible classes.

I dont know if this is INTP related but I also cant spell to save my life. I know another INTP with the same problem and I think it has something to do with how we love systems and how messed up of a system the spelling system for English is. Does any one else experience this at all?

 

[Ogion]

One thing i always had a problem with was my lazyness. Ok, well, the teachers mostly had a problem with it
In what was interesting i got god grades, in other things i got medium grades, but i never worked for school (except when it genuinely interested me). I seldomly had done my homework, and for exams i didn't really learn.
But i got through not too badly.
In university now i see the same behaviour, although sometimes i have to work (for example now, for a 10page-paper), and that is pretty annoying^
I wonder if i will ever learn some self-discipline...

Ogion

 

[Fleur]

I`m still in school, and the biggest problem of me is my lazyness, but, like Ogion, I got good grades without any other special learning for classes - I just can`t mobilize myself to read something for more than one time, if it doesn`t interest me. I just can`t understand, why my classmates are studying so hard for some not-so-important (for me) test.

But, if I think about it further, I have high grades because I use logical thinking everywhere I can and I got a lot of other overall knowledge, which can be used to deduce things, that I have to learn in school.
Actually, I have heard that some teachers think that I know about their subjects more than they do.

But I always had some problems with subjects, that I dislike very much, for example, home economics and art always has been kinda problematic to me - maybe because I always think differently than teachers of these two subjects and I am trying to bring some kind of challenge to them by inventing my own ways to do something a lot easier (this regards more to home economics than art).
I think it`s needless to say, but I can feel that these two teachers doesn`t like me much - home economics teacher thinks that I`m just a overly stubborn sloth, but art teacher - that I have a bad temper and I could do it all better, if I tried more.

But I just can`t make myself to do things, that doesn`t interest me - and if I do, then I do them as fast as possible (and that`s why most of them have a very scruffy accomplishment).

But, in same time, that all makes other people think, that I`m some kind of lazy and unmotived genius.

Uh.. And no more home economics and art in highschool! Yay!

 

[Ogion]

Yup, that's it with me too. I never really 'learn' (as in work) the things, but i nevertheless seem to remember pretty much. While others have to work a few hours for a topic, i seem to only have to follow the classes and hardly more.

they always wonder why someone such as me or you Fleur, "unmotivated genius", doesn't excell at all courses and such. I think it is pretty self-evident. Most of the things just bore me, or it bores me if i have to work with it more than just to perceive and save it.
So i will only get good grades or motivation when it really interests me, but even there the good grades are actually collateral.

Ogion

 

[Fleur]

Motivation is one strange thing. Some people do everything, what they can, just to show everybody, how hardworking they can be; some people works because of some mystical future goal, which can fade away so quickly, that no one can understand, why they were doing that.

But, in schools, children, at least most the times, are motivated by fear - fear of failure, fear of being more stupid than others are, etc.

And grades are pretty relative themselves - not so much knowledge as a simply luck to have that, what you know or can figure out, in tests.

 

[PreAlgebra]

I am the last person that should be pointing this out especially since I just mentioned how bad of a speller I am but it just made me laugh too hard.

In what was interesting i got god grades,

I think that as INTPs, we are very individualistic and want to do things our own way and on our own terms. This always causes problems in institutions where there is a hierarchy of authority and where they use accolades to judge ones performance. We generally do not agree with these terms.

Its funny because I had a two teachers in high school that wanted me to join academic decathlon. The way academic decathlon works for those who dont know is that they need the same amount of A,B,and C average students on a team. The schools of course always have a hard time finding C students. Well they introduced me to the teacher that was running it as brilliant but completely unmotivated. That had a big influence on me because I never thought of myself as unmotivated, I just didnt want to play their game by there rules. Needless to say after 3 months of them trying to get me to join, I never did because I didnt see the point.

Do a lot of you guys/gals see yourselves as lazy or unmotivated?

 

[Radioactive_Springtime]

I've been told I was not properly "motivated" since the fifth grade. In highschool my grades varied by class. The core classes were usually around C or D because I never did homework and rushed through most projects. I remember at one point in AP U.S. History one of the girls who was in the top 10% of the class became furious because I always scored higher on tests than her w/o doing anything. Elective classes depended on the coarse. Architectural Drawing and Communications technologies (both taught by a teacher proud to be an authoritative asshole) both earned me about 13%s because it was just incredibly boring.

As far as projects go they either interested me entirely or not at all. I remember two specific Projects that gained my interest. The first was a persuasive speech in English. My topic was the fascist tendencies of the Bush administration, which made my teacher laugh. I ended up getting an E because I ran about 2 minutes over the limit. I think the max time was supposed to be 7 minutes which left me about 20 seconds for each point of fascism. The other was a presentation about 60s pop culture in US history. I came dressed as a hippie and talked about music. It was easy enough because at the time I had extremely long hair.

But other than that I didn't really put too much effort into school until early 12th grade, when I was expelled for the first semester.

 

[fullerene]

it shifts completely with mood... I think I dodged that bullet though. I'm more with Ogion and Fleur... in high school the classes were so easy it didn't matter how motivated I was at all. I have an istj mom who pushed me a lot to be like her, so getting stuff done when I had to did rub off on me... at least enough to get major papers done. I never had to put much energy into anything, and my grades came out B+/A- in history and english, A in everything else almost constantly through middle and high school... oh, except for that D in gym. I couldn't summon the motivation to excersize outside of class, and wouldn't just lie on it out of principle (besides my moral issue with lying, that'd be admitting that the grades actually cared to me), and a "fitness log" we had to fill out with out-of-class excersize was a large part of the grade.

My university is really math/science/computer science oriented, so I'm even more at home. The material is harder... but that just keeps me engaged. The same basic thing as high school though... one of my classes gave incredibly boring homework... so I only did about 1/2 of it, and skipped a good 1/5 or 1/4 of the classes (usually I'm good about going to class), and came out with a B. The rest of them held my interest and I got A's without much work outside of class.

So yes and no. Motivation is a problem... but it very rarely manifests itself. It generally comes down to how many of my courses require a lot of reading on topics I don't care about, because there's no way to "grasp" reading quickly, like you can do with a science or math concept. I'm an impatient worker because I want things done quickly, and if it physically can't go quickly it doesn't often get done.

Oh yeah, and I forgot, in high school if I procrastinated to the point where so much work built up that what was due the next day couldn't get done, I would generally not do any of it. Then, the day after it was due, I'd summon the motivation to start working on it. That only happened about once a year or so though.

 

[Ogion]

@PreAlgebra
Oops. Damn, now my plans are out in the open
I'll let it uncorrected, it is funnier this way

Ogion

 

[Agent Intellect]

i have the same problem the original poster does. if something didn't arrouse my interest, i just couldn't do it. i've done a lot of learning through books and the internet since school about things like biology and physics, pretty advanced stuff, because it interests me. but doing things like algebra or reading charles dickens and i just completely zone out. i got a lot of C's and D's in school, except in my creative writing, english, and journalism classes, but many of my friends tell me that i'm smart (one even said i had an intimidating intelligence). but, like Mark Twain said "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" and thats something i have certainly lived by.

 

[Ogion]

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education"

Haha, i like that. (And it is quite true. School is per definitionem massprocessing...So individuals who doesn't quite fit in the standard profile are in the disadvanting side)

Ogion

 

[PreAlgebra]

I love that quote. On a similar note, If you think of those that do the best in school, and I mean going into post-graduate education, the only option they really resort to is becoming Teachers. Therefore making system a closed cycle. It seems really self-defeating.

 

[Raison D'etre]

I was in an all GT class in 5th and 6th grade. The projects were usually interesting but most of them were group projects. I felt suffocated when working with them. I was also very distrustful to the point I hogged most of the work because I didn't trust them to do their part. My lazyness didn't help me either. Staying up past midnight was a daily routine. Work just kept piling up. To make matters worse, my teacher always seemed to group me with the same below average, lazy, and uncooperative people in the class. When I entered middle school, I didn't even try to listen to my teachers thus I had to study a little more than most people. Procrastination was still a big problem. I usually studied for tests 2 or 3 in the morning and projects were rushed. Middle school just wasn't interesting enough for me. Even so, I managed to maintain straight A's. I probably was just lucky due to the fact that most of my teachers were too lazy to grade projects correctly. I was hoping highschool was going to be more appealing, but from what I've read, perhaps not.

 

[fullerene]

middle school sucks... for everyone, everywhere in the US. I've not met a single person who said they enjoyed it even a little bit (socially or academically). high school probably depends on where you go. college you have so much choice you can pretty much find what you want if you look hard enough.

don't worry though... middle school is about the worst time of the first at least 20 years of everyone's life.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

School for me was very boring... i dont remember what i was like as a child in school but i always got good grades until i got to middle school. I went from a straight A student to a D average. throughout middleschool and highschool i didnt talk to many people, i don't know what people would have considered like but they would probably say i was a lazy pothead. The stuff they teach in school doesn't change to much after a certain point...they tell the same stuff repeatedly until never cared and slept through a lot of classes. I never felt like being at school and even failed classes most people didn't even think could be failed such as gym and art. (In case you wanted to know, you fail gym by never dressing and fail art by purely no participation) I felt as if school opened my eyes a little bit to reality..i noticed differences in people and most commonly noticed peoples stupidity...there is no way i could picture them grading me against others. Some people were stupid in the sense that they could barely read or understand basic concepts....others who were possibly pretty knowledgeable and did well in school but couldnt explain simple things any person with common sense never had to have explained to them. This made me think it wasnt worth the time to try at school.
I never had any problems with teachers not liking me. I would consider the relationship i had with most teachers as more of a peer than a authority figure. They always told me they thought i was "special" or "gifted" and that i had to apply myself. I was often very forward with them when most people would make excuses, for example, i never did any homework and when the teacher asked why i didn't do i would just tell them i didn't do it, there was never any need for an excuse, if they asked why i didn't do it i told them i was to lazy.
I have a lot of memories of teachers praising me. In 9th grade my English teacher nominated me as student of the month every month because of a memoir i wrote in the first term that she thought was amazing. The students were all pissed because i never did any homework and failed every term but was consistently nominated. My second year of high school (i failed 9th grade one time, completed 9th grade my second year then dropped out after that) i had both 9th and 10th grade English and i had failed both but my story only deals with the 9th grade English teacher..anyway i had failed the first 3 terms (which automatically fails you for the year) and we had an 11 page essay to write about a book called The Car, i liked the book so i read ahead of everyone else who was reading the book in class chapter by chapter. By the time they started the essays i had already read half the book and didn't intend on writing the essay so i told my teacher i wasn't going to do it and she thanked me for my honesty, issued me a failing grade for the essay, and gave me puzzles and stuff to do in class for the last couple weeks while everyone else did their essay.

Overall school wasn't to bad but i think that public education is not a very stable environment for a growing INTP under any kind of stress. I think i would have felt better in my school had there been less people or if more of the people were intelligent.



END

 

[cesar2587]

yea...i never had problems with school....i only do te tasks and it´s all...i lerned to follow the rules when i was in elementry, my teacher used to yell at me in 1st grade cause i never do the tasks...so, after a couple of months i decided to do the things in her way, and it works...i´m lazy too and i hate to do boring homework...and about teamwork...I hate it!, i always felt that i have to correct the work of everyone, and meetings with the teamates are always unnefective, they like to chitchat every second, and when they are into a deadline they get stressd and confused...so they start beeing pesimistic about everything...the worst!!.
About middle school...for my it was the worst time (especially in social stuff...). i remeber that i used to do my tasks and my homewok but most of my classmates used to hate me or stealt my homework, i was lazy and doing my work was a huge effort...so i use to hate my classmates most than my teachers or the rules.

High School was another story...i felt more confident about myself and i work in the social stuff, but i started to question my teachers methods...now in college i try to focus in my interests, and when i need to do somethuing i don´t like i only do it spending the minimum energy and lacking in effort...or simply i don´t do it if it´s possible....socialy i´m always the same hermit person...

 

[Radioactive_Springtime]

I never saw teachers as an authority either

 

[Ermine]

I haven't had too many problems with school. While I'm independent, don't respect my teachers unless they're worthy, and am not interested in math at all, it didn't matter much because I acted all the way through. I was courteous with the teachers, didn't ask questions that I knew wouldn't go over well, obeyed the rules no matter how irrelevant they were, did my homework no matter how stupid it was, and still got an A in math.

That being said, I was bored to death until I could start taking advanced classes. Also, my teachers adored me for no real reason. I just played the part of the good student, and they ate it up.

It's also kind of strange how I didn't ever show my real personality except in my advanced classes, especially art and English. Also, middle school was really weird socially. I ended up being semi-popular for a time because I dressed like a "rebel" and I tried acting as "rebellious" as possible while still maintaining my good grades and teachers' approval.

Also, with high school, I've really taken the quote "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education"to heart. I finally realized that public school was brainwashing, so I entertained myself during my boring classes by sifting the pure fact from the sentiment, especially with my corrupted American history classes.


It's all been an act, apart from my AP classes.

 

[Anti-socialite]

I was just like that. I did well grade-wise but I didn't get scholarshps when I graduated because I did just enough in school to keep my mom off my back.

 

[severus]

I have done well in school so far. (I'm going into 9th grade.) Straight As. I do all my homework, though I usually forget about it until the last minute. It helps that my mother is running a dictatorship here. Always checking up on my grades on the school's website. Stupid edline. Nagging at me. Asking about my day. Asking why I never have my "friends" over. Hmph.
I never study for tests, and so far that's working out just fine.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

Yeah i never studied for a single test that i can remember...maybe when i was in elementary school but i doubt it. As for what Fernando mentioned about how he wasn't interested other than his advanced classes, i was forced to be in advanced classes because the teachers in the classes i were in originally said i didn't seem interested in the work we were doing so they moved me up. The problem i had was i didn't care about what we were doing at all..i just didn't want to do the work...which they tried to fix by putting me into classes that were on the same subject but did an amazing amount of work. You can probably imagine where i went from there...in my school homework, classwork and participation averaged out to almost 70% of your grade. I never got less than a B on a test but i failed 6th grade, went to summer school where there was no homework and i got a 100% in every class i had to take other than English which i cant remember..pretty sure it was an A though. then i failed 7th grade but was moved on by my teachers, passed 8th grade then i failed 9th grade, went back to 9th and had enough credits to move onto 11th but i dropped out and got my GED.

Laziness FTL

 

[Ermine]

Fernando's a girl. And also, it's kind of weird that I like to work when I'm in challenging, exciting classes like that. Then I can know for a fact that the homework is useful. Generally, the only classes I like are the ones that are hard enough that I'm forced to study (apart from art). I haven't studied at all until 11th grade.

 

[fullerene]

Fernando, sorry if I missed this... but are you in the US schooling system?

Just curious, cause I work more like float in that respect... just not as extreme. That is, unless the concepts get harder, the amount of work won't change how interested I am in it at all.

I'm just curious cause AP US history (the only subject I truly hated through school, but took ap cause my high school was deadbeat and it was the only ap they offered until senior year... it was half and half my and my parents' choice to try it so I didn't look really bad for colleges... *shudder*) was still pretty awful, despite the amount of work and the fact that I had to study for it (also the first class to make me do that). I was just curious... are you talking about advanced classes in the US school system, or are you coming from another country?

 

[Monknizzles]

I did terrible in school. I was so close-minded I just ignored it. Somewhat a typical kid who was "8 years old going on 30". The only problem is.... being a INTJ I was so independent I was actually naively convinced I was ready for life enough. Strongly elitist somewhat, I basically just feel like people are too tight, and yet have no conscious. By time I was in like.... 8th grade I knew school couldn't work no more... Went to highschool, and dropped out after 3 years. I basically went there just to have fun. Yet on my last year my contingency planning was obviously soon to be tested, so I became almost overwhelmed with enlightenment. I am now ready to basically enter the school environment with my lesson learned I plan to get 100s of certifications, and it would be nice to get over 5 degrees This is easily to be done if I don't procrastinate, or die first.

 

[PreAlgebra]

For those of you who got good grades regardless of how much you cared, or got along with the teachers even though you didnt see eye to eye. My question is why? What was your motivation? Did you find it worth whatever effort you put into it? These are honest questions that I am really curious about.
Thanks in advance.

 

[fullerene]

um... well I'm not gonna lie, a lot of it was pressure from my parents when I was younger. They cared way more than I did, and I didn't care at all, so we balanced somewhere in the middle. In 6th grade they tried to get me to write papers, edit and revise them, rewrite, edit and revise, rewrite, etc, having them check it in between each time. I put up such a fight that we eventually balanced out on "I'll do it once and proofread it for spelling," and they never bugged me to do any more per assignment after that year. That got me to do the assignments I may not have normally, and generally spitting something out the first time was plenty good enough for something in the B range. I'm a really good test taker too, so that bumped me into the high Bs to low As, even if I hated the subject.

College is a different story... most of my classes I genuinely love, but the ones I don't I just decided it was worth the effort to do well. It also helps if you just don't do the stuff you don't feel like doing if it's not worth a lot. In English our homework assignments would be worth like 5% of our grade, total, but would take up an awful lot of time (2 or 3 1-page papers a week adds up). So if you don't feel like doing those: don't. When something like a 5 or 6 page paper comes up that's worth like 20% of your grade, you can let that dig into your "reserves" and force yourself to get it done. You can even trick yourself and use the major assignment to procrastinate and not do the minor ones, if you're lucky, so it doesn't even feel like you're working to get whatever it is done.

It also helps if (at least in college) you remember that you're paying for it. Even if it's the education you're paying for and a given assignment won't help you learn at all, I know that your first job really only looks at your GPA anyway, and (at least I have myself convinced so as to think that) they won't hire you if they don't know that you know your stuff. It's just thinking ahead a bit and realizing that eventually you have to pay back student loans, and for that you need money, for money you need a job, and for a job you need grades. Even if it forces you to subordinate your learning to other concerns (I know, I know), it does help kick in some extra motivation in certain circumstances.

Luckily, though, I enjoy most of my classes enough that I don't have to rely too heavily on stuff like that... because I don't think it would hold up enough to get me through "school" as a whole if I had absolutely no interest.

edit: oops. I forgot too... simply enough, if you don't see eye to eye with a teacher and there's any "wiggle room" with the assignment, it does pay not to be confrontational... if they're really that unreasonable. We had two major philosophy papers last fall... both given choices between 3 or 4 different topics. I wrote the first one thinking I could convince the grader my point of view (because I knew we disagreed) and ended up with... I think it was a B- on it. Then the second one I just decided "this guy isn't worth arguing with" and wrote on a topic I knew he would agree with me on, and came out with my A. It would be another deal if you had to write on one subject and your teacher were closed-minded, but if you're that different, searching out your common ground can go a long way as well.

 

[Dissident]

I did pretty well in school, my grades were usually 8s or 9s, like many of you I studied the night before the exam in the best cases. Not that im that smart but the education level in my school was not so good ( many people managed to fail subjects nevertheless)
As for my motivation, I dont think I had any, I thought it was a necesary bother so I just wanted to get through with it, failing and having to redo it all for a second time was something I wouldnt have enjoyed doing... AT ALL.
My mother knew I had it taken care of, so she didnt even bother asking me how I was doing or anything, I didnt have any preassure in that way. If I failed I would have goten in trouble, thats for sure, but as long as I passed it wasnt even talked about.

 

[Ermine]

Fernando, sorry if I missed this... but are you in the US schooling system?

Just curious, cause I work more like float in that respect... just not as extreme. That is, unless the concepts get harder, the amount of work won't change how interested I am in it at all.

I'm just curious cause AP US history (the only subject I truly hated through school, but took ap cause my high school was deadbeat and it was the only ap they offered until senior year... it was half and half my and my parents' choice to try it so I didn't look really bad for colleges... *shudder*) was still pretty awful, despite the amount of work and the fact that I had to study for it (also the first class to make me do that). I was just curious... are you talking about advanced classes in the US school system, or are you coming from another country?

Yeah, I'm in the US school system with AP classes. However, they let me start in my junior year.

 

[severus]

For those of you who got good grades regardless of how much you cared, or got along with the teachers even though you didnt see eye to eye. My question is why? What was your motivation? Did you find it worth whatever effort you put into it? These are honest questions that I am really curious about.
Thanks in advance.

My ma made me do it.
Or she planted the seed at least. I feel criminal if I miss an assignment or get lower than an A on a report card.

I thought I was going to get a C in gym this past year. We did archery, and my aim was horrid. But the written test pulled me back to an A. Thank God. That would have been just embarassing to ruin my A streak due to gym.

See now I set a standard for myself, and I'm stuck with it. Or that's how I feel at least. Now my ma is nagging at me to join clubs. Hah, no.

 

[Jordan~]

For those of you who got good grades regardless of how much you cared, or got along with the teachers even though you didnt see eye to eye. My question is why? What was your motivation? Did you find it worth whatever effort you put into it? These are honest questions that I am really curious about.
Thanks in advance.

Well, my parents spend a lot of money sending me to private school; and why would I want to deliberately fail a test? I mean, I don't study very much if at all; less and less as exams go by (generally I'll study pretty hard for the first few to be safe, then tone it down to the required amount (which is a quick read over the notes to refresh them in my mind). I don't think the school likes the fact that I don't need the systems they teach us to achieve good grades, my PSE (Personal and Social Education or something) teacher doesn't believe me when I say so. Rambling again... Anyway, the point was, I've never needed to put any effort into getting 1s and As anyway, and I don't much see the point of doing less than my best when the exam comes around. Besides that, I want to study at Cambridge so I'll need damn good grades as well as a good interview technique (which oddly enough, I seem naturally blessed with). PE (gym) is one class my grades are terrible in - it's not a real subject, so I don't treat it as one. Music was the same, I just played around with expensive equipment until I was able to drop it. I understand the value of having these subjects, but certainly not of having them as compulsory subjects - why not have a Monopoly class? Seems about as relevant to an academic education as PE - moreso in fact. The PE teachers have given up trying to make me cooperate, so I generally just walk around with my hands folded behind my back or sort of pace about. Or use it as an opportunity to have some fun, if we're not doing something uninteresting.

Now I'm really only taking classes I enjoy (except the nuisance that is compulsory physical education), which tend to be the ones I do particularly well in. Notably this year I pick up Philosophy, and aside from that I'm taking English (English Lit is the American equivalent, I think), Classical Studies, Latin and History.

My parents don't really interfere, they know how much I hate it when they do that, and they've seen that I get consistently good grades without any sort of intervention. I've been at the same school since I was 5, by the way, so I suppose that gives me an advantage socially - not having to meet new friends, etc. All the friends I have now were introduced to me by one friend I made on the first day by playing some dumb game, or by people he introduced me to. I've never really had to make a friend, just grow towards them.

I rarely do homework, either, but I avoid confrontation over it by being subtle. Larger assignements like essays etc. I can't avoid and will usually do, smaller ones I'll do in class or quickly during break or the reigstration period at the start of the day. American education sounds awful, by the way - but them, I don't really have a national equivalent to compare it to, going to a private school and all. It's a good school, I like it.

Anyway, even if I have to put in more effort, if I'm able to study at Cambridge and consequently spend my life doing what I love rather than having to make do with an ordinary job, then yes, it will have been worth it.

 

[Ermine]

For those of you who got good grades regardless of how much you cared, or got along with the teachers even though you didnt see eye to eye. My question is why? What was your motivation? Did you find it worth whatever effort you put into it? These are honest questions that I am really curious about.
Thanks in advance.

It's worth all that work for my mom to leave me alone and let me be independent with school stuff. The more she feels secure leaving me alone, the more freedom I get. It's definitely worth the school work.

Also, my P is fairly low in comparison to the rest, so I'm more motivated than your average INTP. I like being successful, and I don't mind working for it.

As for the teachers, I don't know why, but most of my teachers really liked me. It wasn't for any good reason other than my doing the homework and not talking back. I just played the part of the good student, and my teachers adored me for that.

My main motivation is that I have a lot more freedom if I do well. I have a lot more choices for college, my mom and teachers don't nag me, and people admire me, even if it's only because I help people with schoolwork and I look smart.

 

[EditorOne]

Motivation: When I went to school we got two ratings, one for academic achievement and the other for, I dunno, attitude. I'd get straight A's and, on the other one, the equivalent of "doesn't put out enough effort."

It was my first concrete clue that the world is screwed up. :-)

 

[fullerene]

LOL

 

[Jesin]

Not the first time I've heard about that.

 

[Wisp]

On MY report cards they put actual COMMENTS. F***! "Wisp should pay attention" "Wisp doesn't do anything" "Wisp should be more motivated". Screw that. For a little background, I hane the virginia schooling system is (so I understand) one of the better ones, and I'm in the IB programme. Well, I'd do well in school, but we have a 100% grade system.

A=100%
F=64%
Not handed in = 0%

So one A and one missed assignment = 50%. An F. By my calculatoins, it takes no less than 13 100% grades to pull an NHI back up to an A. Oh well. I have mediocre grades. I TRY to get my work done, but some times I forget that I have it, or I don't hear my teacher because I have to wake at 5:30 and am too busy at hanging on to my last shreds of consciousness. I've dropped IB English because of hearsay about gargantuan amounts of reading and writing. I'd've dropped IB Hist for the same reason, but I need it to continue the programme. The problem is that IB teaches the same subject, but just gives me more work. The upside is that I'm with (relatively) smart students and teachers. Thankfully, my school has a large quantity of competent teachers, although they gave me a shitty math teacher twice in a row, and forced me to take statistics, which I LOATHE. But I nabbed a 3 on the exam, which is a pass.

I think my teacher hated me. She had a very questionable attitude toward me and my grades dropped through the last semester, for no reason that I could see... Oh well. I'm going to have a cool math teacher... ( He has clock that measures the time in PI!) next year.

Back to topic. I am seriously feeling jilted by the fact that people who are DUMB AS ROCKS and just copy their home work off the few "Smart 'n' Popular" people will get A's and go to college. And this is why the grading system favors worker drones. However my teachers that aren't b**ches actually like me... And a few even understand me! (only a few though)

 

[Psorous]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum. I hope I'm not intruding but I am actually the parent of a thirteen year old who is showing strong INTP inclinations. Frustrations have been plenty but I'm finally learning to accept him as he is. I've already accepted and actually respect that he will not perform for a teacher he does not respect or will not study a subject that does not interest him. It's interesting however that he has become obsessed with purchasing a certain kind of car when he is old enough to drive. I never thought I would do this, but I jumped at the opportunity and decided I would offer to pay for grades!! It seems to interest him. We'll see.

My best hope is to help him find the one subject he can be passionate about and hopefully drown in that. I've decided that nothing else matters. It sometimes seems like a waste especially since he's identified as "gifted". But then again, the very characteristic of an INTP will allow him to succeed greatly in the one area.


Psorous

 

[fullerene]

no no, not intruding at all. That's actually one of the best ideas I've ever seen a parent have. I wish my parents had taken the time to understand me when I was around that age... would have saved us a hell of a lot of problems now.

I'm not all that sure you're going to find one thing he can just "be awesome at" though, even if he's very smart. Refining skills and focusing is more of an INTJ thing. The typical INTP can't focus on any one thing, and seems to find half a dozen or so "passions" and shift between them. I know at least in the portraits we're said to often be content just knowing we could do something if we wanted to... and so he could very well end up "second" in a whole lot of different areas. It takes a mix of theology, physics, philosophy, psychology, and (above all) introspection to keep me from boring myself to death. It depends on the person though... no two are alike, regardless of type.

One thing I can say is: if he's 13 (so in middle school), don't try to push grades so hard just because middle school "grades" and high school "grades" and college "grades" all go by the same name. I didn't buy it when I was in middle school, and I doubt he will either. It seemed painfully obvious to me that middle school grades counted for nothing. High school grades contribute a little towards college, and college towards grad school, and grad school to a job... but the disconnect between middle school and high school was apparant to me. One of the things my parents did was try to push, hard, against my nature and when the issue wasn't all that important, and in the end it just made me lose respect for them.

All that to say... you might want to consider putting down the "good parent" stereotype if he's determined to think that the grades aren't worth much to him. Just be honest and (gently) say "hey, I know grades don't mean a whole lot now... but when you get to high school they start keeping a transcript of grades and classes you take, and that can be important for college," and he'll probably make the switch himself when he hits that age.

If he's truly a strong P, and not J, I don't think he'll get set in a pattern (even if he looks like he's set in a pattern) that not caring much in middle school would make him not care in high school too. And hey... if he's really gifted and you get him interested in the theories in physics or chemistry or history or whatever, letting him do just enough work to pass in middle school, he'll find the subjects so easy by the time he hits high school that it won't matter much how much effort he puts into them.

That's the best advice I can think of, at least.

 

[Wisp]

Yeah, I made the switch 3/4 of the way through freshman year...

 

[Psorous]

Thanks Cryptonia for the advice,

As I said, he has strong INTP inclinations but the P is certainly coming on strong. Our relationship went pretty sour up to a few months ago until I got my senses together and researched and stumbled upon the MBTI. It's the best thing that's happened to me/us/my whole family. Things are extremely peaceful now. I no longer react to the grades he brings home (we're year-round so school has already started). I think he's more upset at himself now because he really wants that car!! The only thing I do, (and just last night he actually admitted it's helpful) is at the end of each day, I sit with him (for only a couple of minutes) to make sure everything he's bothered doing actually makes it in his backpack. If he forgets to turn it in the next day, that's out of my hands.

As for middle school "grades" (he's in 8th) I've heard it a thousand times from him that they don't matter, and I agree. Hopefully with the money incentive, he'll just pick up some good habits that he can use later. His twin sister (a possible ISTJ) is loving this. She is extremely self-motivated in everything she does. Has to work hard for good grades but has always done it. The thing is, she never needed money or anything else as a motivator. She's getting it now

I think you may be right he might not have just one thing he'd be passionate about. It's really too early to know now. I'll just be watching & listening.

As a final thought, being a parent of such different kids is so humbling (I also have a possible ENFP 11 year old). Most of how they turn out are out of our hands. I'm just glad I'm realizing it now so I can be much more effective as a parent. By being effective, I mean finding individualized ways of teaching them the life skills they'll need to function in society. Hopefully this is a realistic goal.

Psorous

 

[fullerene]

Yeah it sounds great to me. haha that's awesome, by the way, cause I often forgot to bring and hand in stuff during school too.

Oy! I did realize after posting, that all of those "fields" I listed to hold my interest only do so because they're manifestations of one thing--the truth. If you could say I became obsessed with one thing in adolescence, it was the truth... it just came through so many different things that nobody observing would ever think so. So being what you would probably call "scattered across many things" and being intensely focused on one thing aren't mutually exclusive.

Also (if you haven't already figured it out, although I think you probably have), I stumbled upon this site a few days ago, which I can attest to as the single greatest key to developing a deep relationship with an intp. I hope this isn't bugging you yet... but I feel morally obligated to put some of my experience to use and let you know that if the relationship isn't there with parents, "I'm your mom, doesn't that mean anything to you?" won't ring any bells. All the nurture and time spent together may help... but comfort in sharing emotions (/the bad judgment shown when I did) is the key that I think my parents missed.

 

[Jesin]

Ugh. I went to an IB middle school, and I don't like the IB program. My impression of the IB program is that it plays to strengths I don't have to compensate for weaknesses in my best subjects.

My grades in middle school mattered a lot to me. I needed them to get into TJHSST, the geek high school of the Washington area. I think that was what motivated me in middle school. (By the way, I got in, and it is a great school.)

-----

@Psorous:

Like cryptonia said, you're not likely to find one subject he can be passionate about continuously for a long time. He's more likely to be really interested in and passionate about a subject for a while, then lose interest in it and go elsewhere. Then, a while later, he'll come back to it and be interested in it, only to drop it again later. It seems pretty common for INTPs (well, at least the ones on this forum) to cycle through several different interests, not necessarily in any order, and not always one at a time.

Also, welcome to the forum. Just for an idea of where you're coming from, what type are you?

 

[fullerene]

My grades in middle school mattered a lot to me. I needed them to get into TJHSST, the geek high school of the Washington area. I think that was what motivated me in middle school. (By the way, I got in, and it is a great school.)

*horrified gasp* oh no!! I'm in college now (carnegie mellon) and they draw a lot of kids from there. That one and that other magnet school in NJ, don't remember its name.

Please, for the love of God, go there, take advantage of the fruits of your hard work, and learn all you can--but if you come out of there thinking people are dumb for the sole purpose that they haven't heard of the stuff you have before (even if they're good critical thinkers, or always know how to make other people feel comfortable, or pick up new concepts quickly, or any other number of legitimate ways you can think of to measure "intelligence"), I'm hunting you down .

Seriously, no offense to you or the school... it's just a very common and visible trait I've seen in a bunch of people now.

 

[Anti-socialite]

My biggest problem in school was complete insecurity and being misunderstood.

 

[Jesin]

Calm down, cryptonia, I know the difference between stupid and ignorant.

 

[Psorous]

I test as an I S/N TP, with a dose of J thrown in, mostly as a result of life experience and necessity rather than something that comes naturally. The most important result of understanding my type has been the fact that I'm no longer obsessed with making my son avoid the same "mistakes" that I made.

I'm not sure he's too concerned about finding the "truth" in subjects yet, but he does have a very strong sense of what is logical (and what is fair) & although I don't always agree with him, it's tough to make him budge from his position. A lot of his decisions are based purely on whether or not something makes sense to him. If it doesn't, then forget it. Unless of course, it can earn him a little money for his car

On another note, and this is probably for another forum, understanding my type has also helped me to not feel so inadequat as a mom. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the nurturing, etc. It's the cooking and the cleaning and the arts & crafts and the decorating and the PTA functions, etc., etc., that I've just never gotten into. The stereotype is so darn strong and it's all around me. We do have one very neat and organized room in our house however, and that would be my ISTJ daughers'. Everyone else in the family is a P. Sorry, I just had to vent a bit.

 

[Ermine]

I test as an I S/N TP, with a dose of J thrown in, mostly as a result of life experience and necessity rather than something that comes naturally. The most important result of understanding my type has been the fact that I'm no longer obsessed with making my son avoid the same "mistakes" that I made.

I'm not sure he's too concerned about finding the "truth" in subjects yet, but he does have a very strong sense of what is logical (and what is fair) & although I don't always agree with him, it's tough to make him budge from his position. A lot of his decisions are based purely on whether or not something makes sense to him. If it doesn't, then forget it. Unless of course, it can earn him a little money for his car

On another note, and this is probably for another forum, understanding my type has also helped me to not feel so inadequat as a mom. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the nurturing, etc. It's the cooking and the cleaning and the arts & crafts and the decorating and the PTA functions, etc., etc., that I've just never gotten into. The stereotype is so darn strong and it's all around me. We do have one very neat and organized room in our house however, and that would be my ISTJ daughers'. Everyone else in the family is a P. Sorry, I just had to vent a bit.

Might want to take that to the Gender Roles thread. But I can relate. Most women are scary to me BECAUSE they genuinely enjoy PTA stuff and other social functions, socializing, gossiping, etc.

 

[fullerene]

Calm down, cryptonia, I know the difference between stupid and ignorant.

*shrug* yeah wow, haha sorry, I have no idea what my state of mind was to get that excited. I still stand by my observation that most people from those schools don't know the difference though.

"...men must either be caressed or annihilated..."

haha "ouch", by the way.

 

[Saturnine]

All I can say was that I was barely ever awake in school. I had no interest at all in academics, except for art and psychology...and maybe biology. I had no interest in socializing either, and found my peers to be very irritating. Actually, I have no idea how I managed to graduate HS but I did haha.

 

[Kuu]

I've dropped IB English because of hearsay about gargantuan amounts of reading and writing. I'd've dropped IB Hist for the same reason, but I need it to continue the programme.

Nooooooooo! I absolutely despised IB english! I had almost entirely managed to suppress that memory! Damn you!

It was miraculous that I actually got the IB diploma... me being INTP... never handing in the physics lab reports, writing my extended essay basically 2 days before the due date (I just couldn't stick to a single topic), and being the nemesis of the ToK teacher who was dumb as hell... how did she expected to gain any of my respect if she couldn't even understand basic logic?

IB History was great in spite of the never ending reading... Perhaps the best class I've ever had in my life. That teacher loved me, and understood my INTP ways....


I'm getting in trouble tomorrow if I don't start working about.... 4 hours ago.... I hate teamwork.

 

[Wisp]

YAY! Someone I can bitch about the IB program to!

*hugs tekton*