INTP or ENTP?

[darude11]

Well, well... I have got one more problem with typing somebody, who is 100% sure NTP. But I can't type, if he is Introverted or Extroverted (or extraverted? whatev). Soo... if you would just describe the INTP and ENTP with some short phrase, what would it be?

P. S.: Here in the spoiler is the concrete situation.

Spoiler

When I was once watching my (not so old) friend playing chess with my brother (EST*, always changing last one depending on the enviroment), he was more like "What could he do next?" He is really just like me. He tries to understand enviroment he lives in, understand his own interests on 100% and is really really impetuous (don't know if I used right expression, so I will describe it a little: make really quick decissions). But he is more sociable than me. And the another NTP (I was typing him for now as ENTP) was more sociable too. I think that the real question is "Can be INTP so sociable?", and maybe "How to differentiate INTP and ENTP?

Thanks for help!

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I can't really help much on how to differentiate, but an INTP is capable of being sociable. I don't have a link and i forget the exact wording, but I read somewhere that INTPs have a "chameleon-like" social ability, where they can mirror the behavior of those around them. This in some ways hides an INTP's I/E function to make them seem much more extraverted.

So I guess to distinguish one from the other you'd need to see how they act around others on a deeper level. Like if they share their thoughts and feelings easily or if they keep those within and only act sociable. Another way (MUCH less efficient) would be to observe body language. I can only speak for myself because I am the only INTP I know, but I always feel much more awkward and uncomfortable physically around others. Doing other things like sports etc. I feel perfectly coordinated, but in social situations I tense right up.

Please, don't take my word as absolute. I am FAR from an expert.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

It's not like INTPs are always complete retards, they can be quite sociable if they're with close friends, or if they happen to have developed a good sense for being social. When I'm typing people's introverted- or extravertedness(which I rarely do because I don't know that much about MBTI to be honest), I mainly look at how they behave in big groups of people. At things like concerts and such, introverts will usually not scream, initiate clapping, or start dancing. They are also more likely to walk around slightly confused and overwhelmed through the sea of people.

 

[darude11]

Well, then there are three non-experts in MBTI

Thank you for your sharing your opnions!

 

[smithcommajohn]

It's true we can be sociable and mask our introverted nature, it just eventually drains our energy and we need to find solitude (I do anyway). This makes it difficult to type I/E without spending some time with someone. Look to see their interactions with others. Do they prefer one-on-one (I) or large groups (E)? Do they search for a reason to excuse themselves (I) or do they look to add more people (E)? Do they resist parties (I) or welcome them (E)?

Again, we are quite adept at faking an Extraverted stance to others because it is more accepted in our society, but if you look closely, you will discover body language, voice tones, facial expressions, etc. that will clue you into their type.

 

[Aramea]

INTP and ENTP are pretty different. The functions are the same but in a different heirarchy. ENTP's think the same way as INTP but are much more sure of themselves sometimes to the point of being cocky and arrogant. They are not as coldly logical, preferring to let their Ne do most of the talking. They are warmer and easier to get to know.

They are great for INTP's to talk to because they willingly talk about abstract and theoretical things. I have to watch my tendency towards using blunt logic to "win" a debate even if I don't really agree with my argument. It really seems like a fencing match, always looking for a vulnerability to exploit. If you parry long enough you will find one, but it will probably shut down the discussion.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I have an ENTP friend. I can have very good conversations with him, but after a while he really becomes a douchebag. He thinks he's smarter than me, smarter than everyone. It makes it very exhausting to talk to him after a while. He's constantly saying 'Well, I just thought of, nah, nah, you wouldn't understand anyways. Nobody understands. I think in such complex ways, it'd be impossible to understand for you.' Very derogatory.

 

[Aramea]

I have an ENTP friend. I can have very good conversations with him, but after a while he really becomes a douchebag. He thinks he's smarter than me, smarter than everyone. It makes it very exhausting to talk to him after a while. He's constantly saying 'Well, I just thought of, nah, nah, you wouldn't understand anyways. Nobody understands. I think in such complex ways, it'd be impossible to understand for you.' Very derogatory.

LOL, my ENTP friend says "I don't know how to explain it" for seemingly simple concepts. I usually say something like "Give it a shot, I might surprise you". I put up with it because she is one of the few people I can talk to without becoming exhausted and needing a recharge, as long as I overlook all the "I am so smart I surprise myself sometimes" crap. She IS very smart and she knows that I am, too. She just doesn't realize that some of her brain farts are really not THE BEST [fill in the blank] EVER.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

LOL, my ENTP friend says "I don't know how to explain it" for seemingly simple concepts. I usually say something like "Give it a shot, I might surprise you". I put up with it because she is one of the few people I can talk to without becoming exhausted and needing a recharge, as long as I overlook all the "I am so smart I surprise myself sometimes" crap. She IS very smart and she knows that I am, too. She just doesn't realize that some of her brain farts are really not THE BEST [fill in the blank] EVER.

Yeah, exactly. My ENTP friend is a good guy at core, the arrogance just really becomes annoying sometimes. I also constantly have to stimulate him to try and explain his 'genius' brain farts to me haha.

 

[darude11]

And my ENTP friend (yeah, freshly today analyzed) is... hmm... just that funneh guy? Which is about to do all the funny stuff... So, ENTP's are those which think they are the smartest ones? Just like the ESTJ's perfect? Thank you!

 

[Aramea]

ENTP's are our best friends, actually. The cockiness comes from being right most of the time. They ARE often the "go to" people for things. The best Mediteranean food? The best website for political discourse? The best dish to bring to a party? The best spanish red wine? All and more are as close as a phone call to an ENTP. They are also wonderful at bringing us out of our hermit-like existances because they do think a lot like us. I am known for emulating some of my friend's behavior. Of the "E's" they are the most like us. My friend even needs alone time on occasion.

 

[SkyWalker]

I am ENTP, I thought I was INTP before.

ENTP = Ne(1) Ti(2) Fe(3) Si(4)
INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2) Si(2) Fe(4)

ENTPs keep more options open (stronger Ne perception, weaker Ti decisions) and are therefore more open-minded
INTPs close options sooner (stronger Ti decisions, weaker Ne perception) and are therefore more narrow-minded. not that they are narrow-minded types, but more so than ENTPs. ENTPs are just the most open-minded of all (Ne)

ENTPs are the idea-generators, more so than INTPs. It is because ENTPs are just more open-minded, keeping more options open, even impossible ones (because you never know).
INTPs shut down impossible options immediately because they are not logical according to their stronger Ti.


INTP ideas are more thought out, ENTP ideas are more fuzzy and vague. ENTPs think they see the whole picture (they do actually), yet they have no clue how to explain it, thus also not how to implemented it (although they think they do, because they "see" it).

ENTPs can go into Ne-trips, which is like a giant idea-high, like a roller-coaster ride. WHOAAWOAOOHOAHAHA NEW IDEA WOWWWW... This can sometimes infect others as well and cheer up people and make the people like the idea as well. It can also be too much for most people and they will think the ENTP is weird and nuts.
ENTPs are most social if they can ramble about their ideas non-stop...then they are more extravert than anyone. but... if they dont have good ideas, they become quite introverted, they then become observers, waiting until good ideas pop, worthwhile of saying. An ENTP will never say or take charge if he/she thinks his ideas at this moment suck, then the ENTP will just shut up and appear introverted. ENTPs also have new ideas when they shut up, because they just always have new ideas, but they just know they suck at the moment they shut up.
it is said that ENTPs are the most introverted of the extraverts. Which is true, until good ideas pop and then it's like they are on fire.

also, in ENTPs the Ti/Fe is more balanced. and in INTPs the Ne/Si is more balanced.
INTPs have such strong Ti, that their Fe is a bit lacking (their weakness: sucking at dealing with people, making them a bit autistic)

ENTPs have such strong Ne, that their Si is a bit lacking (their weakness: sucking at seeing what is there to lose, making them over-optimistic / over-courageous)

 

[smithcommajohn]

cool story, bro

 

[Aramea]

Thank you Skywalker !!! This is pretty much how I see it, though I disagree that INTPs shut down the impossible (at least not completely). We still have Ne and it constantly seeks information, especially to resolve the nonsensical. Ti does render a decision on things that make no sense logically, but if Ne finds missing pieces Ti must adjust accordingly. That is what makes us seem so undecisive. I do admit that we can be stubborn about things that don't make sense. We won't accept them. When I was younger I couldn't even accept that someone would even entertain something that didn't make sense but I have tempered that a bit.

My ENTP friend does get over-zealous with her ideas at times. Again, she's right often enough that she gets pretty cocky. With me, I'm wrong often enough not to get too cocky. Often, though, the right and wrong are a matter of perception. Dominant Ti puts a natural check on Ne. I have to be VERY certain or it is wrong. She does not have these constraints so it is easy for her to think she is right when, in fact, she is not.

 

[SkyWalker]

Well you know what I mean, I meant it in a fuzzy way... and then I am still right, because in fuzzy ways i can always be right... (get it ?)

Ne is fuzzy, it has no discrete borders/boxes like thinking has.

I meant that ENTPs are just a bit more prone to the impossible than INTPs, and that INTPs might sometimes skip an opportunity, because they thought it was impossible. while it was actually not -in the end-

 

[smithcommajohn]

Too bad my narrow mind can't understand what you're saying.

Definitely see the d-bag thing mentioned earlier.

 

[Aramea]

Well you know what I mean, I meant it in a fuzzy way... and then I am still right, because in fuzzy ways i can always be right... (get it ?)

Ne is fuzzy, it has no discrete borders/boxes like thinking has.

I meant that ENTPs are just a bit more prone to the impossible than INTPs, and that INTPs might sometimes skip an opportunity, because they thought it was impossible. while it was actually not -in the end-

Yes, that is true. I will sometimes dismiss an idea that my friend will still hang on to. She is often right in the end, but I have no problems adjusting to the new conclusion.

The difference between Ti/Ne and Ne/Ti is interesting. We really think alike, yet in a different way. I say "that doesn't make any sense" quite often. She says "think about it (the possibilities) Aramea" quite often. Of course I have already thought about it if it is up for discussion, but not in the way she means. Ti needs Ne much more than Ne needs Ti it would seem. Without Ne I would (and have) enter into endless loop of crunching data I already have. Since this requires more Si, it is draining. I HAVE to learn new things to feed Ti.

I see what you mean, then, about ENTP's being idea factories. She probably likes the already maturing ideas I feed her. I like the new ideas she feeds me. We really have a symbiotic relationship that way.

 

[Jordan~]

In my experience ENTPs think a lot of themselves and are oblivious to their failings. INTPs, on the other hand, tend not to value their strengths or achievements but take them for granted, and are very aware of their weaknesses.

Any type with dominant or auxiliary Ne gets the hyperactive, quasi-manic buzz thing now and then. ENTPs and ENFPs get it more often, perhaps. I can't really speak from experience because I've had ADHD all my life and potentially cyclothymia at times, too, and it does quite closely resemble hyperactivity and hypomania.

Si is also the function of metaphorical understanding, which is why INFPs and INTPs, with their close relationship between Ne and Si, make better poets. :P

I had an ENTP friend when I was an INTP; she'd have a lot of ideas and tell them to me and I'd shoot about 80% of them down. INTPs hear something, Ti gets to work right away at processing the information fed to it by Si, which digs up similarities to things the INTP's thought about before, such that an INTP will think, "That's just like _____," or, "That has the same problems as _____," identifying a principle behind the idea and recalling other ideas which have the same principles behind them.

She'd especially do it when we were arguing. It's kind of like machine gunning a very solid wall in that situation. Most of the flak bounces back, and what doesn't is quite easily absorbed. Very occasionally something hits a weak spot and there's a serious problem. An INTP on the attack just subtly creeps forward, taking concessions from their opponent without being noticed. A lot of my arguments with her ended either in one or both of us storming off in frustration or with the phrase, "Then we're agreed," when she hadn't agreed with me at all in the first place and didn't realise that she'd given any ground.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Then maybe I'm somewhat ENTP, because I never really have a problem with ideas not making much sense. Unless an idea has an obvious hole in it that makes it totally impossible I seem to be able to accept it (at least somewhat). Usually I gauge the other persons confidence and think that they may have some information that I don't which makes it more clear to them.

I also find myself saying "I don't know how to explain it" quite a lot. I have the idea in my head and I can understand it perfectly up there, but once I try to turn it into words it seems like the idea gets lost and I can never figure out which word would work best to explain it.

Edit: I'm not saying I accept any idea, it's just that I won't shoot one down on a technicality.

 

[Jordan~]

I think I used to struggle to express an idea quite a lot, too, but usually now I'm satisfied with how I got it across. Generally I use a barrage of symbols and examples - "The principle that I'm talking about can be seen if you look at x," or, "It works just like x. Or y. Or z." That's a Ne/Si thing, I think.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Yeah, I've also found that works. The ways I get ideas across the best are through metaphors of some sort. Because getting others to relate (x) to something else is easier than getting them to build an understanding of (x) without anything to compare it or relate it to. My biggest problem isn't so much getting the idea out, it's getting the right words to use without confusing or creating a misunderstanding.

 

[smithcommajohn]

I think if you took an average ENTP and an average INTP you're going to get a lot more similarities in thought than differences. To say one type is more open-minded than another is kind of speculative and derogatory. I would imagine there are plenty of INTP's more open-minded than many of their ENTP counterparts since types are about preference of thought, not quality of thought.

Perhaps it's just that I've never met an ENTP in real life, but I can say I've never met someone I consider more open-minded than myself... ever. I welcome the opportunity, however, since most people I come in contact with seem to dislike my thoughts and opinions on topics. They're looking for more black vs. white and I'm coming back with more or less the full light spectrum.

Re: Metaphors

I love metaphors and analogies. I use them constantly to try and simplify complex concepts into a more palatable format. I wish I had the creativity for poetry. That is something I lack.

 

[Jordan~]

I was at least twice as open minded as my ENTP friend. Sometimes I'd say things like, "Jesus, you're a Tory in Marxist's clothing." When I said that it would be wrong for us to judge the Greeks for their pederasty she practically launched a smear campaign against me. She also appeared to believe some rather close-minded things but hide them so as not to damage her liberal cred. She'll make a fine New Statesman columnist one day.
...We stopped talking. :P

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

New thought: You guys are saying that ENTPs are the ones who get all cocky and stuff. I personally wouldn't know because I don't know any ENTPs, but my biggest source of annoyance comes from INTJs.

I have an INTJ friend and he is constantly going on about how I don't understand and how he is special because he thinks differently. Any of you guys have the same issues with INTJs or is this one just a doucher?

 

[Dimensional Transition]

New thought: You guys are saying that ENTPs are the ones who get all cocky and stuff. I personally wouldn't know because I don't know any ENTPs, but my biggest source of annoyance comes from INTJs.

I have an INTJ friend and he is constantly going on about how I don't understand and how he is special because he thinks differently. Any of you guys have the same issues with INTJs or is this one just a doucher?

I have a really good female friend who is an INTJ. She's always been very nice and understanding to me. She actually seems to be very intrigued and fascinated by my thoughts. We share a lot of information.
So I don't know, maybe it depends on what the INTJ thinks of you.

EDIT: Jesus I'm becoming subjective as hell. 'I have a ... friend' is occurring way too often lately. Sorry for that. I don't really have as much friends as this all may even imply?

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Yeah, I see how the INTJs opinion of someone can change how they act. For starters I am hardcore P and he is hardcore J so we don't usually get along all that great. And on top of that most of our ideas politically, religiously, philosophically, etc. differ in some way. I guess this could cause his "my ideas are better than yours" actions. I'm not a hundred percent sure if he acts like this around others but in most things he seems pretty confident to the point of cocky-ness.

 

[smithcommajohn]

I'm pretty sure douchebaggery is not type-limited

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I'm pretty sure douchebaggery is not type-limited

Hm, that's probably right. We could investigate every type, giving examples of how we know a douchebag who is that type...

 

[Jordan~]

That website I've linked to that basically gives a list of why every type is bad springs to mind. :P

 

[Aramea]

I knew an INTJ pretty well but it is a lot harder to interpret his behavior since the functions are all different than mine. He was quiet and kept to himself for the most part. He was arrogant about intelligence and did not like those whom he considered "stupid" but he would not express that opinion to the target. He only had one close friend (that I never met) but he really admired the guy. Sounded like some kind of charismatic fun-loving extrovert. They were both assholes to a certain extent from what he described to me. He never thought there was anything wrong with anything he did. There was not a whole lot of warmth apparent but when he was in a good mood he had a wicked sense of humor.

INTPs and ENTPs are goofy and far-out there free thinkers. The INTJ I knew was more serious and not as prone to speculation. He was fun to talk to but tended to have made up his mind about things and scoffed at unlikely what-if scenarios. In short, there is no similarity between the ENTP and INTJ I know. They met once and had nothing to talk about. She sees no reason to be anything other than herself, hence no chameleon skill. The disdain at her presence was fairly obvious coming from the INTJ. He did not take her seriously and probably wondered what the hell I saw in her as a friend.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

He was arrogant about intelligence and did not like those whom he considered "stupid" but he would not express that opinion to the target

That's exactly how the INTJ I know acts. He only accepts ideas that are practical and he's always whining about how stupid everyone else is.

 

[Jordan~]

I know an INTJ who's nothing like that - he's perfectly lovely. But he's not a typical INTJ at all, if that's not an oxymoron. As smithcommajohn says, douchebaggery's not type-limited.

 

[darude11]

Spoiler

I am ENTP, I thought I was INTP before.

ENTP = Ne(1) Ti(2) Fe(3) Si(4)
INTP = Ti(1) Ne(2) Si(2) Fe(4)

ENTPs keep more options open (stronger Ne perception, weaker Ti decisions) and are therefore more open-minded
INTPs close options sooner (stronger Ti decisions, weaker Ne perception) and are therefore more narrow-minded. not that they are narrow-minded types, but more so than ENTPs. ENTPs are just the most open-minded of all (Ne)

ENTPs are the idea-generators, more so than INTPs. It is because ENTPs are just more open-minded, keeping more options open, even impossible ones (because you never know).
INTPs shut down impossible options immediately because they are not logical according to their stronger Ti.


INTP ideas are more thought out, ENTP ideas are more fuzzy and vague. ENTPs think they see the whole picture (they do actually), yet they have no clue how to explain it, thus also not how to implemented it (although they think they do, because they "see" it).

ENTPs can go into Ne-trips, which is like a giant idea-high, like a roller-coaster ride. WHOAAWOAOOHOAHAHA NEW IDEA WOWWWW... This can sometimes infect others as well and cheer up people and make the people like the idea as well. It can also be too much for most people and they will think the ENTP is weird and nuts.
ENTPs are most social if they can ramble about their ideas non-stop...then they are more extravert than anyone. but... if they dont have good ideas, they become quite introverted, they then become observers, waiting until good ideas pop, worthwhile of saying. An ENTP will never say or take charge if he/she thinks his ideas at this moment suck, then the ENTP will just shut up and appear introverted. ENTPs also have new ideas when they shut up, because they just always have new ideas, but they just know they suck at the moment they shut up.
it is said that ENTPs are the most introverted of the extraverts. Which is true, until good ideas pop and then it's like they are on fire.

also, in ENTPs the Ti/Fe is more balanced. and in INTPs the Ne/Si is more balanced.
INTPs have such strong Ti, that their Fe is a bit lacking (their weakness: sucking at dealing with people, making them a bit autistic)

ENTPs have such strong Ne, that their Si is a bit lacking (their weakness: sucking at seeing what is there to lose, making them over-optimistic / over-courageous)

In my experience ENTPs think a lot of themselves and are oblivious to their failings. INTPs, on the other hand, tend not to value their strengths or achievements but take them for granted, and are very aware of their weaknesses.

Any type with dominant or auxiliary Ne gets the hyperactive, quasi-manic buzz thing now and then. ENTPs and ENFPs get it more often, perhaps. I can't really speak from experience because I've had ADHD all my life and potentially cyclothymia at times, too, and it does quite closely resemble hyperactivity and hypomania.

Si is also the function of metaphorical understanding, which is why INFPs and INTPs, with their close relationship between Ne and Si, make better poets. :P

I had an ENTP friend when I was an INTP; she'd have a lot of ideas and tell them to me and I'd shoot about 80% of them down. INTPs hear something, Ti gets to work right away at processing the information fed to it by Si, which digs up similarities to things the INTP's thought about before, such that an INTP will think, "That's just like _____," or, "That has the same problems as _____," identifying a principle behind the idea and recalling other ideas which have the same principles behind them.

She'd especially do it when we were arguing. It's kind of like machine gunning a very solid wall in that situation. Most of the flak bounces back, and what doesn't is quite easily absorbed. Very occasionally something hits a weak spot and there's a serious problem. An INTP on the attack just subtly creeps forward, taking concessions from their opponent without being noticed. A lot of my arguments with her ended either in one or both of us storming off in frustration or with the phrase, "Then we're agreed," when she hadn't agreed with me at all in the first place and didn't realise that she'd given any ground.

I can't really help much on how to differentiate, but an INTP is capable of being sociable. I don't have a link and i forget the exact wording, but I read somewhere that INTPs have a "chameleon-like" social ability, where they can mirror the behavior of those around them. This in some ways hides an INTP's I/E function to make them seem much more extraverted.

So I guess to distinguish one from the other you'd need to see how they act around others on a deeper level. Like if they share their thoughts and feelings easily or if they keep those within and only act sociable. Another way (MUCH less efficient) would be to observe body language. I can only speak for myself because I am the only INTP I know, but I always feel much more awkward and uncomfortable physically around others. Doing other things like sports etc. I feel perfectly coordinated, but in social situations I tense right up.

Please, don't take my word as absolute. I am FAR from an expert.

So, if I've got it right, we have there:
-> INTP, that behaves like chameleon - chooses silently somebody acceptable in social group and copies him, which make him look extraverted (or extroverted if you like this word more)
-> ENTP, that behaves like introvert - when he has got nothing to say, he is quiet, but when the great (including irrational) idea pops up in his mind, it will just... hmm... fly out from his mouth?

Also, the thing about balance of Ne-Si at INTP and Ti-Fe at ENTP makes the thing more acceptable, because it differentiates them. Right?

 

[darude11]

I'm pretty sure douchebaggery is not type-limited

Copying this one in my signature!
+ 4 twitters and some bats! :smiley_emoticons_mr

 

[Words]

I think think typing a person's I/E, specially the NP's, requires either changing the external situation wherein you'd have an extreme contrasting case of a very introverted INTP and a very extroverted ENTP or a case where the typing would have to be inductively produced on a long timeframe. Long as in perhaps 40 hours of staying beside these two individuals and quantifying the number of their Ne-actions as well as Ti-actions. Bring a logbook. It should work.

 

[Aramea]

I know an INTJ who's nothing like that - he's perfectly lovely. But he's not a typical INTJ at all, if that's not an oxymoron. As smithcommajohn says, douchebaggery's not type-limited.

Absolutely. I know others that may be INTJ but I am not really sure. I work in a place that has a lot of NT types and sorting out the specific types would be daunting. I knew the guy I wrote about very well. I didn't really know about the dark side of his personality until I knew him for about a year. His mind games became so obvious that even I could see them. I am a fairly poor judge of character.

This mind games thing relates to something else in this thread:

So, if I've got it right, we have there:
-> INTP, that behaves like chameleon - chooses silently somebody acceptable in social group and copies him, which make him look extraverted (or extroverted if you like this word more)
-> ENTP, that behaves like introvert - when he has got nothing to say, he is quiet, but when the great (including irrational) idea pops up in his mind, it will just... hmm... fly out from his mouth?

Also, the thing about balance of Ne-Si at INTP and Ti-Fe at ENTP makes the thing more acceptable, because it differentiates them. Right?

Do NT's in general have to adapt to the "real world" to interface with it? ENTPs brag, INTPs emulate, INTJs play mind games, and ENTJs bluster. Perhaps T and N don't combine well for modern day human interaction with its parties and holiday cheer. Even work isn't safe from group activities. ENTJs seem like they would have it the worst with inferior Fi to relate to people. They actually don't seem to bother so maybe they are the only genuine NTs.

 

[darude11]

I think think typing a person's I/E, specially the NP's, requires either changing the external situation wherein you'd have an extreme contrasting case of a very introverted INTP and a very extroverted ENTP or a case where the typing would have to be inductively produced on a long timeframe. Long as in perhaps 40 hours of staying beside these two individuals and quantifying the number of their Ne-actions as well as Ti-actions. Bring a logbook. It should work.

Just one note: You can't actually truly measure that how many times are Ti and Ne used by one concrete individual (or two? whatev'). They mustn't use it loudly. I am using them permanently in my mind, where nobody can see/hear/feel it. Yes, they are able to think that I am thinking about something, but they can't find it out unless I will speak. And when I am talking, usualy it is Ne (because it is extroverted function and extroverted functions are used more often when in someone's company (one person or more, I don't care). Marvelous, don't you think?

 

[scorpiomover]

I went to a friend's family dinner a few nights ago. I was find when I was talking to my friends, and when I was talking to people there about something that interested me. But when everyone was just chatting, I was mostly quiet. Afterwards driving home, my friend asked me how it went. I replied that I was uncomfortable most of the time, and felt very drained. He said that I was quite sociable, which surprised me.

I am quite the same at parties. I usually stick to me friends. Occasionally, I come across a person by themselves, and find something to talk about, that we both like. But "chat" just bores me silly. So the rest of the time, I find I'm just standing next to a wall, contemplating mathematics or something like that.

Skywalker, reading what you wrote, made me see that I have a lot of traits like ENTPs, and made me think that I might be an ENTP. However, I always start out trying to understand something, find lots of problems with it, and THEN come up with a new idea that works with them all. So I believe I am definitely Ti-Ne, and so am definitely INTP.

Or, I could be wrong. There goes my P-ness again.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I am quite the same at parties.

Parties? What are those?

 

[Words]

Just one note: You can't actually truly measure that how many times are Ti and Ne used by one concrete individual (or two? whatev'). They mustn't use it loudly. I am using them permanently in my mind, where nobody can see/hear/feel it. Yes, they are able to think that I am thinking about something, but they can't find it out unless I will speak. And when I am talking, usualy it is Ne (because it is extroverted function and extroverted functions are used more often when in someone's company (one person or more, I don't care). Marvelous, don't you think?

Some people argue that you can identify which function their using simply by looking at their eye movements. But, really, how else will you type a person without relying on some external output? And I don't think that extroverted perception functions are necessarily used more often when in someone's company. That may be the case with extroverted judgement but extroverted perception requires only "perception" not arrangement, so it doesn't have to interact with the external. Although you do get more ideas from talking with people. But, i think, to simplify things, you only have to measure the number of ideas they express per hour. You should get an accurate answer after 40 years...*cough*...hours.

 

[darude11]

Some people argue that you can identify which function their using simply by looking at their eye movements.* But, really, how else will you type a person without relying on some external output? And I don't think that extroverted perception functions are necessarily used more often when in someone's company. That may be the case with extroverted judgement but extroverted perception requires only "perception" not arrangement, so it doesn't have to interact with the external.** Although you do get more ideas from talking with people. But, i think, to simplify things, you only have to measure the number of ideas they express per hour. You should get an accurate answer after 40 years...*cough*...hours.

-> * - Yes, I have readed article about it... I believe that Ne is upper left corner (because it's imagining), but it can be in every individual original direction, so I don't want to test them like this.

-> ** - Well, and how about describing what is somebody else percepting? Like "You will now answer of run away"... not concrete for you

Yeah, and 40 hours... 40 hours? You mean, that I will have to be that long up?

 

[Words]

You should reply to divided quotes next time. more fun.

-> ** - Well, and how about describing what is somebody else percepting? Like "You will now answer of run away"... not concrete for you

I don't understand this sentence. You mean which function is present when you talk about someone else's perception? That sounds like Introverted Perception to me.

Yeah, and 40 hours... 40 hours? You mean, taht I will have to be that long up?

It's my own suggestion. The point is that after 40 hours, there *has* to be well-founded *certainty.* More evidence, more accurate. Inductive logic.

 

[darude11]

You should reply to divided quotes next time. more fun.

I will try

I don't understand this sentence. You mean which function is present when you talk about someone else's perception? That sounds like Introverted Perception to me.

Hmm... if I understood your sentence, then the answer is "no". I meant describing fully what you are percepting... for example the Se-ish behaviour is like "Hey look! Squirel! And look over there! There is a thief!!!" (well, as I imagine it at least , principle understood I hope), or Si-ish is... hmm... I am not sure... I think like "Did you saw that man, which have hit me yesterday? He was running over there like 10 minutes ago" or something like that...
But it was about describing... every P function has got it's own individual style of describing events...

I am not pro, it's pure theoreticaly... if you have some critics, you can still share them.

It's my own suggestion. The point is that after 40 hours, there *has* to be well-founded *certainty.* More evidence, more accurate. Inductive logic.

I was just joking

Well, multiquoting is fun!

 

[SkyWalker]

In personality disorder language:

INTPs tend to be more schizoid-ish
ENTPs tend to be more ADD-ish


As in reaction to a really good idea (the good idea coming either from themselves or from another):

INTP = "hmmm interesting thought", "hmm fascinating", "hmm it seems sound (so far)"
ENTP = "WOWWWWW WOWWW WOWWW, THIS IS BIG, THIS WILL CHANGE THE WORLD WOWWW"
e.g. enthousiasm is 10x too high in ENTPs and but low in INTPs.

so for those who are not sure what they are: just check how you would react and then you know

 

[ked]

The ENTP is visual and the INTP isn't visual, using the Socionics functions. And using the MBTI functions it's about two visual dominants and the only difference is that the other has a more dominant Ti vs. Ne than the other; the Ti dominant (J in Socionics and in reality, and P in MBTI because of its bug about Introverts) being an Introvert and the Ne dominant being an Extrovert (the most dominant function, its direction, makes one an Introvert or an Extrovert).